NATO's Canadian Commander in Libya, Charles Bouchard Must Stand Trial for War Crimes

Is it just me or do advocates for NATO terror make you nauseous, too? 

NDPP wrote:

DaveW is as described 'the usual social democrat'...yes, it makes me sick.

It's called politicking in Ottawa. Opposition party knows it's a phony majority dictatorship, and that Steve will toadie to Uncle Sam as viciously as humanly possible. The sharp opposition politico pretends to see the government's POV, and then withdraws support for a number of very well thought out reasons. The NDP knew all along they would withdraw support for the US-led  NATO military action in Libya, because the NDP knew from recent observations how U.S.-led quagmires wind up being long and protracted military occupations of defenceless, oil-rich countries. It was inevitable, and the NDP knew that our vicious toadies in phony majority power would be flip-flopping on their own lick and a promise that Canada would exit from Libya ASAP. And so here we are and probably looking at civil war in Libya for a long time as NATO's al-Qaeda mercenaries will likely squabble and duke it out amongst themselves in a Darwinian battle to the finish, just like 1990s Afghanistan and 2000s Iraq. It doesn't require a politician to figure out the Gladio gang's agenda. Just like it didn't take a politician to figure out that al-Qa'eda is really al-CIA'duh and al-MI6'duh and probably covert French government support all along, right?

Only one party in "The Harper Government of Canada" was actually required to do NATO's bidding not two, a cold fact of our mathematically absurd electoral system invented before electricity. It necessitates political maneuvering, and the NDP didn't have to get faked out into positioning themselves as the Bolshevik party of Canada secretly working to create Soviet communism in Ottawa. Or at least, we can be sure that the phony newz services would surely have blown it out of proportion describing it in cold war era terms of left vs right, and that Jack had suspicious ties to Vladimir Lenin's fourth cousin, or something pretty close to it. Yeah, they are always up for some good ol' cold war propaganda that they did so well for 70 years non-stop. But you know what? The NDP didn't play their game. 

Are the NDP "concern trolling" the Harpers in Ottawa for political gain? It looks that way to me. You say it's because the NDP wants to empower the same governnment they seek to replace. Who's right here? But if you want a better democratic process, then make sure to vote for the democratic opposition NDP, the pro democracy opposition party fighting for a modern electoral system for all Canadians.

Quote:

I'm beginning to think Voltaire was right:

"Of one thing only can we be sure - we shall remain stupid"

He can say that again. And here's another: 

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. And Elvis bin Laden was their Emanuel Goldstein. They may only be 24 percenters in phony majority power in Ottawa, but our corrupt stoogeaucrats don't see millions of Canadians not voting, or millions of wasted votes as strikes against their undemocratic ways. N-No, they count millions of non-votes and millions more wasted votes to their credit, their strength and numerical advantage every four years. We owe it to Libyans and all those in oil-rich and Zbigniew Mackinderan-strategically situated countries on NATO's list for a good shellacking to try our damndest not to feed the plutocracy's strength with our ignorance or voter apathy. Just like the NDP forces our stooges in power to show up for House votes lest the fat-cats are caught with their pants down during a count, so do Canadians have to make an effort to show up on election day every four years. I refuse to let strangers speak for me whether it's here, there, or at the ballot box.

Refreshing to see some passionate arguments against the militarist "third-way" social democrats.  Lenin (no - I'm no great fan of his policies, but many of his political writings still make perfect sense) is proven right over and over again - social democrats can be worse enemies than conservatives and fascists because they're such mealy-mouthed fake critics who aspire to the brass ring of power which is greased especially for them but they're too damn dumb to notice they're being manipulated and edged toward the right to isolate them from the base and from the committed left, so they shut up on crucial issues whenever the brass ring swings into view; some of them would  sell their grandmother to the fascists if it meant distancing themselves from the "Red" label.

Funny thing is so many fancy themselves to be latter-day Winston Smiths.   

post deleted.

can someone define "concern trolling"  you guys have lost me.

NDPP wrote:

NATO's Libya Generals Should Be Hauled to Court, Says Dennis Kucinich

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61920.html

"NATO commanders who authorized the Libya bombing campaign should be 'held accountable' to international law or hauled before the world court for civilian deaths, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said Tuesday.

'If members of the Qadhafi regime are to be held accountable, NATO's top commanders must also be held accountable through the international criminal court for all civilian deaths resulting from their bombing.

Otherwise we will have witnessed the triumph of a new international gangsterism."

Lt Gen Charles Bouchard has final authority and approval for all NATO targeting in Libya. War Crimes charges now!

Every Canadian politician that voted to support NATO/UN's illegal war against the county of Libya should be prosecuted as war criminals also. Our elected politicians got us into this illegal war and they should be held accountable for their actions.

They all should receive life sentences for the innocent civilians that have been killed since the start of this illegal war.

The every member of  the Conservatives, the NDP the Liberals and the Bloc parties are all guilt of war crimes, we should be demanding justice against them all.

Frmrsldr wrote:

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Every Canadian politician that voted to support NATO/UN's illegal war against the county of Libya should be prosecuted as war criminals also. Our elected politicians got us into this illegal war and they should be held accountable for their actions.

They all should receive life sentences for the innocent civilians that have been killed since the start of this illegal war.

The every member of  the Conservatives, the NDP the Liberals and the Bloc parties are all guilt of war crimes, we should be demanding justice against them all.

That's a pretty tall order.

Let's not forget the Afghan war as well.

Don't forget anyone who helped any of them get elected, worked in the campaign, donated money, etc.  I just wish we had an public ballot, so we could put anyone who voted for them in jail as well. 

Our gulags need feeding.

Bouchard is just a pawn, he takes his orders from the 307 elected politicians that voted for this illegal war, not only one but twice in parliament.   

The politicians and the political party leaderships need to be punished first and foremost. I say given them harsh 50 year sentences, strip them of their pensions and salaries.

Once that is done, we will go after the pawns.

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Bouchard is just a pawn, he takes his orders from the 307 elected politicians that voted for this illegal war, not only one but twice in parliament.   

The politicians and the political party leaderships need to be punished first and foremost. I say given them harsh 50 year sentences, strip them of their pensions and salaries.

Once that is done, we will go after the pawns.

Ahahaha.  Good one.

Frmrsldr wrote:

That's a pretty tall order.

Let's not forget the Afghan war as well.

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

No shit... You guys would end up in jail before any of those guys do... sorry.

Who are "you guys" versus "those guys"?

In our modern world there is no direct democracy like there was in Ancient Athens.

With the First Past The Post election system we elect "majority" governments with a minority of voters/supporters.

After we elect people to office they make their own decisions regardless and sometimes in contradiction to what they promised.

What can people do aside from voice their opposition?

ikosmos wrote:

Well, some people have managed to combine military struggle with political struggle and rather successfully, I might add.

No kidding. Libya has just added another dimension to pre-emptive wars.

ikosmos wrote:

Well, some people have managed to combine military struggle with political struggle and rather successfully, I might add.

[Without or in spite of foreign military intervention, War of Aggression and regime change]

Who might that be?

The Soviet Union?

China?

Cuba?

Venezuela?

laine lowe wrote:

... Libya has just added another dimension to pre-emptive wars.

George W. Bush justified dragging NATO countries into the War of Aggression on Afghanistan by citing the NATO Charter where it talks about "An attack against one [NATO member] is to be considered an attack against all."

Once again the U.S. and NATO are waging a War of Aggression, this time on Libya.

What attack or imminent threat of attack did Libya pose to the U.S. and NATO countries and their military personnel and assets abroad?

With Iraq, the US fabricated the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction dossier that Tony the poodle Blair happily supported. With Libya, there isn't even the pretense of that country being a threat to any NATO country. That was a pre-emptive strike on "humanitarian" grounds. Ignatieff must of creamed his jeans over that.

dacckon wrote:

But what was the alternative?

To let the Libyan people decide, unhindered, for themselves.

dacckon wrote:

The alternative in this case was that Gaddafi's forces would have arrived in Benghazi and started massacres.

That is not at all certain.

dacckon wrote:

Look at what he is doing now, pulling out political prisoners and killing them as if they were nothing.

Notice how only a very short time ago when the war on Libya was stalemated, there were reports on rebel atrocities.

Notice now that the rebels appear to have taken over nearly all of Libya the horror stories of war crimes committed by Gadhafi forces come to light - even though this is still leavened by stories of rebels committing atrocities.

dacckon wrote:

What level of intervention would have been appropriate?

At the state, military and state actor level,

none.

dacckon wrote:

Gaddafi must  clearly pay for his crimes and his insanity.

(Assuming Gadhafi is insane) insanity is a crime?

dacckon wrote:

If a group of rebels are targeting those with darker skin colour because they believe them to be mercenaries, then that group of the rebels must be tried as well.

Those Pentagon/CIA/Special Forces/SAS/Para/NATO etc., trained, armed, supported, paid "rebels" are not also mercenaries?

dacckon wrote:

If nato violated anything, then it must pay.

Um, yeah.

The U.S. and NATO violated UNSCR 1973 by attacking civilians and civilian areas, picking sides, waging a War of Aggression and engaging in regime change. All of which are illegal and are war crimes/crimes against humanity.

dacckon wrote:

But somehow claiming that a supermajority of mps are imperialists...

That is how the U.S. and NATO will/are get(ting) away with their war crimes/crimes against humanity.

dacckon wrote:

... there has to be an understanding that necessary evil is necessary.

This military intervention, War of Aggression and regime change on Libya was a war of choice, not a "necessary evil."

One of the world's greatest perennial myths is that war is fought for generous and humanitarian reasons.

Fidel wrote:

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad. The way it actually works is our corrupt stooges accept their marching orders from Warshington. Junior toadies like Bouchard never question delegated authority of the colonial administrativeship in Ottawa. When Uncle Sam orders Ottawa to jump, their only concern is to ask:  How high, Uncle Sam, ready-aye-aye on the double!!@

Fidel, you are so very right, we currently have 307 corrupt stooges accept their marching orders from Washington. None of our elected officials will never question delegated authority of our political masters in the United States.

Sven wrote:

I'm a bit ambivalent about the actions in Libya.

That said, when Gaddafi is gone, it would be interesting to hear what the Libyan people have to say about NATO's efforts.

Yes,

but the question is

Did we have the right to militarily intervene, effect regime change in and wage a War of Aggression on Libya?

My understanding of the relevant international laws tells me

"No."

Sven wrote:

I'm just saying, after the dust settles, that I'd like to hear what the Libyan people will have to say about NATO.

NATO and the U.S. took it upon themselves to militarily intervene, effect regime change and wage a War of Aggression on Libya and handed this as a fait accompli to the Libyan people.

Now we hear that the Transitional National Council (TNC - in effect the rebel government that has taken over from the Gadhafi government) doesn't have the money to run the day-to-day affairs of Libya and is dependent on the U.S. and E.U. (i.e., NATO countries') governments to unfreeze Libyan assets, coupled with the prospect that the war on Libya could become like Afghanistan and Iraq - an unwinable (for the U.S. and NATO) protracted insurgency quagmire,

how critical do you think those who seek to take the reigns of power and the rest of the Libyan "people" are going to be?

Not very, I should think.

Rikardo wrote:

But who would judge the judges?

Hopefully they would be guided by principles of universal morality, justice and jurisprudence.

When we enunciate universal laws and principles the goodness of humanity triumphs.

Where we fail is in the misapplication or (complete) inapplication of universal justice.

Frmrsldr wrote:

Hopefully they would be guided by principles of universal morality, justice and jurisprudence.

When we enunciate universal laws and principles the goodness of humanity triumphs.

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

We have 307 elected officails that would not fit this classification.

I'm not talking about elected politicians in national governments.

I'm talking about the Justices (judges) on the ICC (International Criminal Court) and IJC (International Justice Court)

and things like the Nuremberg Principles, the U.N. Charter and the Geneva Conventions.

They've got the scum of the country marauding through neighborhoods and back alleys to worry about now. Taste the freedom, Libya!