Libya 17

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Sun, 2011-08-28 15:34

Hoodeet

I guess some of us who read alternative sources have noticed that the hegemonic media are reporting discoveries of massacres as being only by "pro-Ghaddafi forces" (i.e., the legitimate army/militias) and "foreign mercenaries", not the cold-blooded murder of patients in hospitals and of government troops and sympathizers.

And the nominal head of the NTC is threatening to resign? THAT threat will stop the bloody conduct of the out-of-control gangs? And if his threat has any substance or significance you can be sure that he'll end up as another casualty.

Sun, 2011-08-28 15:41

#53

NDPP

'NATO Uses Al-Qaeda to Topple Gaddafi' (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196155.html

"NATO forces are working with the terrorist gourp al-Qaeda to topple the last remnants of Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi's regime, says a political analyst.."

Blood Bath in Libya Embarrassing for National Transitional Council

http://williambowles.info/2011/08/28/bloodbath-in-libya-embarrassing-for...

"As more reporting begins to focus on what has been called 'revenge killing', the head of the Libya National Transitional Council was forced to make a statement yesterday evening, threatening to resign if the 'aftermath killing' did not stop. Senior director of Amnesty International Claudio Cordone suggested that one way to stop the killing would be to declare that anyone committing 'revenge' or hate-crimes would be subject to arrest by the ICC.

Alternative reportes have indicated the presence of French warships off the Libya coast with personnel at the ready to land. This would mean boots on the ground, which was not foreseen nor authorized by UN Security Council 1973. Other sources which cannot be verified ahve suggested that NATO forces are coordinating with 'mercenaries' the poisoning of Libya's water so as to justify a ground invasion of the country.

It has now been confirmed that Qaddafi and his family have crossed the border into Algeria.."

RT reports that the Algerian Foreign minister has denied this

Sun, 2011-08-28 15:56

#54

NDPP

Libya On Brink of Humanitarian Disaster (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/libya-humanitarian-disaster-un-311/

"With Tripoli almost completely under rebel control the threat of a humanitarian crisis in the Libyan capital city is growing. There are widespread shortages of fuel, water and electricity, Humanitarian aid supplies are yet to reach the country. The situation on the ground is very close to a catastrophe..."

Gaddafi Extends Olive Branch (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/gaddafi-negotiations-transition-power-313/

"Libya's leader Muammar Gaddafi is ready to negotiate with the rebels to form a transitional government, the head of Gaddafi's press service said. Rebels reported they would not hold talks wiht the Libyan leader until he surrenders.

Political analyst in the Middle East, Dan Glazenbrook explains the reason Gaddafi's proposal has been rejected is the reason NATO countries decided to intervene in Libya in the first place.

'You have to understand that this war is fundamentally a war to maintain Africa in a subordinate position in the global economy,' he says. 'And this all has to be seen in the context of the rise of China. China in the last five years has been investing massively in Africa. This threatens the Western-ascribed role for Africa, for Western financial institutions and corporations as a provider of cheap labor, in fact, of slave labor and raw materials.'

Meawhile, rebel forces say they are preparing to attack the last major stronghold of Muammar Gaddafi supporters in his bastion of Sirte, where they believe Gaddafi himself is hiding."

Sun, 2011-08-28 16:05

#55

Fidel

So Murder Inc has a contract out on Gadaffi now. Unlike other US-backed dictators and cunning tyrants given sanctuary in the US and other friendlies for years, they will chase and hound Gadaffi to the four corners. They prolly don't want him singing to the world court feds about his dealings with them and the rest of the NATO mafia. It's a very secretive organization afterall. Once inside the syndicate however briefly they never let you quit them.

Sun, 2011-08-28 16:23

#56

NDPP

still no coverage of the exploits of their NATO butcher-boy in Libya, Canadian Lt. Gen Charles Bouchard. Or much of anything from the mythical Canadian anti-war movement. This involves his blasting the way clear for a prolonged assault on Gadaffi's hometown of Sirte. As previously reported, he has final approval of all NATO targets;

Canada Contributed A Disproportionate Amount to Libya Air Strikes

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/08/25/canada-contributed-a-disproporti...

"The burden of strike sorties fell on the shoulder of predominately the Canadians, the British and the French,' said the NATO official. ' I must say that Canada in particular, being the smaller of the three air forces, once again punched well above its weight..."

alas the same thing cannot be said of any resistance here to our outrageous massacres and warcrimes committed there.

Sun, 2011-08-28 17:51

#57

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Maybe it's because the majority of Canadians support NATO's involvement in Libya or are indifferent about it?

Sun, 2011-08-28 18:32

#58

Hoodeet

Indifferent because they are burned out on foreign news and worried about their own lives over here?

Or supportive because, historically, there is such a mythology around militarism as a benevolent thing in Canada and because the media, including the CBC,have almost unanimously acted as accolytes and shut out pretty much any dissent?

Sun, 2011-08-28 18:33

#59

Hoodeet

Do people grow into their names? Should Bouchard be Boucher?

Sun, 2011-08-28 19:08

#60

NDPP

Well all the polls said they didn't support it. Overwhelmingly.

But, this doesn't mean they actually DID anything about it. So more correctly, they DID support NATO's war in Libya. And when it all turns to shit down the road like Iraq or Afghanistan, they'll claim they were 'against it'.

of course we mustn't discount the influence and effect of all but one of their 'representatives' voting FOR

Sun, 2011-08-28 19:29

#61

NDPP

How Libya War Was Won by NATO and Special Forces [JTF2?] by Stephen Morgan

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28971.htm

"Last week NATO shamelessly weighed in on the side of the rebels with the help of special Forces on the ground. Without it, the rebels would never have won. There is now talk that NATO has broken international law. So what role did they play?

On friday, NATO was quick to deny the crucial role it was playing. Al Arabiya reported a press conference at which its spokesperson Lungescu insisted that NATO was sticking to its UN mandate, limited to protecting civilians from any attacks. 'There is no military coordination with the Rebels, she said.'

When asked for his opinion on the statement Shashank Joshi, a Libyan war expert at the Royal United Services Institute in London, pulled no punches. The NATO denials are 'absolute rubbish', he said. 'There's overwhelming evidence that NATO was not only helping the rebels but that it was a decisive, critical partner for the rebels. It was really engaged in a close and intimate level of coordination and support, without which the rebels could not have won this conflict, so I don't believe a single word NATO is saying,' he said.

Illustrating how effective the attacks were and how grateful the rebels were, the UK Independent printed an interview with a rebel soldier involved in the attack on Sabrantha. 'Mr NATO came and fired six missiles at seven o'clock in the morning. Boom, boom, boom and it was all over. Oh yes, we are all very grateful to Mr NATO here...

I believe in Allah and NATO."

Sun, 2011-08-28 21:21

#62

NDPP

Manifesto of the Libyan Tribal Council

http://www.voltairenet.org/Manifesto-of-the-Libyan-Tribal

"By this letter to the extraordinary African Summit, convening in Addis Ababa, the noteables of the Eastern Tribes of the Great Jamahiriya, confirm their complete rejection of what is called the Transitional Council in Benghazi, which hasn't been nominated nor elected by Tribal representatives..

What is called the Transitional Council in Benghazi is rather, imposed by NATO, on us, and we completely reject it..."

Sun, 2011-08-28 21:42

#63

NDPP

Jubilation as Tripoli Falls...In India? (and vid)

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/news-media-corruption/jubilation-as-t...

BBC: British Brain Control

Sun, 2011-08-28 21:56

#64

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NDPP wrote:

Manifesto of the Libyan Tribal Council

http://www.voltairenet.org/Manifesto-of-the-Libyan-Tribal

"By this letter to the extraordinary African Summit, convening in Addis Ababa, the noteables of the Eastern Tribes of the Great Jamahiriya, confirm their complete rejection of what is called the Transitional Council in Benghazi, which hasn't been nominated nor elected by Tribal representatives..

What is called the Transitional Council in Benghazi is rather, imposed by NATO, on us, and we completely reject it..."

Nice, but consider this...

Quote:

Tripoli, May 2011: Hundreds of tribal leaders gathered under a giant tent to call for an end to an armed uprising against Col. Muammar Gaddafi and to NATO aerial attacks on his forces.

So think about it: would the guys in a tent, in Tripoli, in May (or July), vote NOT to support Kaddafi while Kaddafi is still in control in Tripoli? I don't think so.

Sun, 2011-08-28 22:55

#65

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Maybe it's because the majority of Canadians support NATO's involvement in Libya or are indifferent about it?

Correct.

Most people do not actively seek the truth.

They passively ingest what the Fawning Corporate Media spoonfeeds them which causes and is caused by ingnorance and apathy.

Sun, 2011-08-28 23:11

#66

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

So Murder Inc has a contract out on Gadaffi now. Unlike other US-backed dictators and cunning tyrants given sanctuary in the US and other friendlies for years, they will chase and hound Gadaffi to the four corners. They prolly don't want him singing to the world court feds about his dealings with them and the rest of the NATO mafia. It's a very secretive organization afterall. Once inside the syndicate however briefly they never let you quit them.

Exactly

So lets not confuse these people with fucking heroes:

""In soft tones, she explained how Aline lost her temper when her daughter wouldn't stop crying and Mullah refused to beat the child. She took me to a bathroom. She tied my hands behind my back, and tied my feet. She taped my mouth, and she started pouring the boiling water on my head like this," she said, imitating the vessel of scalding hot water being poured over her head.

She peeled back the garment draped carefully over her body. Her chest, torso and legs are all mottled with scars -- some old, some still red, raw and weeping. As she spoke, clear liquid oozed from one nasty open wound on her head.

After one attack, "There were maggots coming out of my head, because she had hidden me and no one had seen me," Mullah said.

Eventually, a guard found her and took her to a hospital, where she received some treatment.

But when Aline Gadhafi found out about the kind actions of her co-worker, he was threatened with imprisonment if he dared to help her again"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/28/libya.gadhafi.nanny/index.htm...

Sun, 2011-08-28 23:13

#67

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Quote:

Tripoli, May 2011: Hundreds of tribal leaders gathered under a giant tent to call for an end to an armed uprising against Col. Muammar Gaddafi and to NATO aerial attacks on his forces.

So think about it: would the guys in a tent, in Tripoli, in May (or July), vote NOT to support Kaddafi while Kaddafi is still in control in Tripoli? I don't think so.

Why not?

I can see no compulsion for them to vote either way.

There was anti-Gadhafi rebellion in Tripoli at the time,

There was also widespread Libyan sentiment against foreign war, intervention and regime change. Remember, this was the time when (a group of) Libyan rebels expelled some MI-6 and SAS troops during their botched operation in Libya.

This was before (some?) rebels became junkies hooked on NATO aircraft bombing of their country and fellow Libyans.

Sun, 2011-08-28 23:14

#68

Frmrsldr

Double post.

See below.

Sun, 2011-08-28 23:55

#69

NDPP

What kind of 'compulsion' was used to kill a longstanding and principled position against Canada's membership in NATO by the NDP? Or was it a carrot rather than a stick used?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20040530/ndp_nato_040529/

If the 'Royal' can return to our military, perhaps the no difference party can return this critical and obviously necessary plank of party policy, consistent with the vast majority of Canadians polls say opposed Libyan ntervention. If I was as staunch a dipper as many claim to be around here I would be demanding this, especially in light of yet another shameful NATO fiasco - this time in Libya.

Canada OUT of NATO Now!

Mon, 2011-08-29 01:27

#70

NDPP

Historic Church of St George in Tripoli Ransacked

http://world.greekreporter.com/2011/08/25/historic-church-of-st-george-i...

"The historic church of St. George located in Libya, in Tripoli, dating back to 1647 was ransacked. The church is the oldest Orthodox church in North Africa. 'I am feeling heartbroken for what is happening in Libya, this beautiful country which was destroyed and whose people are noted for their hospitality,' stated [the] Metropolitan of Tripoli..."

Mon, 2011-08-29 01:48

#71

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
I agree %100... I also think the Libyans will be able to handle any "AlQaeda" that try to install/force a hardcore Islamic government on the people.

That's right. If the people resist, then al-CIA'da will help the Qaeda-linked LIFG (listed as a terrorist group for years by the UK) to establish a militant Islamic emirate in the Maghreb region of North Africa. David Shayler (MI5) said that the Brits worked with al-Qa'eda to murder Gadaffi since 1996 or so. And that fits with the overall Anglo-American covert program for al-CIA'duh/al-MI6'duh being a tool of western intelligence agencies in general. bin Laden, Zawahiri, were on the US Government and British government payrolls long time.

Quote:
Anas al Liby is a member of the Libyan al-Qaeda cell. He remains on the U.S. government's most wanted list, with a reward of $5 million for his capture, and is wanted for his involvement in the U.S. African embassy bombings. Al Liby was with bin Laden in Sudan before the al Qaeda leader returned to Afghanistan in 1996. Surprisingly, correction, not so surprisingly, despite being a high-level al Qaeda operative, al Liby was granted political asylum in Britain and lived in Manchester until May of 2000.

Mommar Gaddafi was among the first to issue an arrest warrant for Elvis bin Laden the CIA's Emanuel Goldstein figurehead for the war against an invisible army of darkness that doesn't exist.

Mon, 2011-08-29 01:59

#72

Fidel

NDPP wrote:

'NATO Uses Al-Qaeda to Topple Gaddafi' (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196155.html

"NATO forces are working with the terrorist gourp al-Qaeda to topple the last remnants of Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi's regime, says a political analyst.."

Blood Bath in Libya Embarrassing for National Transitional Council

Exactly. It looks bad and especially this being the tenth anniversary of the inside job on 9/11 - the inside job that launched ten years worth of liquid global warfiteering and fascist military aggression.

Mon, 2011-08-29 02:04

#73

NDPP

re: 911 + 10: yeah they sure got lottsa bang for their buck outta that one eh?

Cynthia McKinney: WAR KILLS

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26254

"We have to act like we're free if we want to be free. We have to liberate ourselves from war-mongering political parties. When a country is invaded I back the invaded. When the US [or Canada] drops bombs on people you have to stand up and say something, do something,' she said."

Mon, 2011-08-29 06:15

#74

Ken Burch

That said, there's really no justification at all in Qadaffi continuing to have his mercenaries fight. He knows he'll never be in power again. Why can't he just let it end already?

Libya's going to be different, and Qadaffi continuing to fight on can't change that.

I don't approve of the NATO involvement, but it's time for the guy to admit it's over.. He isn't doing the people of Libya any good by dragging this out.

And none of the good Qadaffi may have done ever required the police state shit. He could have consolidated power simply by treating the people right.

Mon, 2011-08-29 10:11

#75

Hoodeet

Ken Burch wrote:

That said, there's really no justification at all in Qadaffi continuing to have his mercenaries fight. He knows he'll never be in power again. Why can't he just let it end already?

Libya's going to be different, and Qadaffi continuing to fight on can't change that.

I don't approve of the NATO involvement, but it's time for the guy to admit it's over.. He isn't doing the people of Libya any good by dragging this out.

And none of the good Qadaffi may have done ever required the police state shit. He could have consolidated power simply by treating the people right.

Hoodeet (JW)

Agreed, but I wish rabblers wouldn't mimic the MSM/NATO use of the term "mercenary armies". It's a highly questionable term.

Mon, 2011-08-29 11:36

#76

NDPP

Anarchy in Triipoli Puts Every Man for Himself (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/libya-tripoli-rebels-crime-327

"...Abdul Jalil, the chairman of Libya's Rebel Transitional Council rejected the idea of sending Gaddafi - if captured - to the Hague International Criminal Tribunal. The NTC leader explained his country had never joined the Rome Statute of the ICC, so in this case the Libyan jurisdiction had priority over the international one...

The Tripoli Council says between 60 and 70 percent of Tripoli residents do not have water or electiricity, due to 'technical conditions'. The situation is quite dangerous on the streets of Tripoli, so people are afraid to leave their houses."

vid interview with Franklin Lamb

Mon, 2011-08-29 11:45

#77

Ken Burch

Hoodeet wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

That said, there's really no justification at all in Qadaffi continuing to have his mercenaries fight. He knows he'll never be in power again. Why can't he just let it end already?

Libya's going to be different, and Qadaffi continuing to fight on can't change that.

I don't approve of the NATO involvement, but it's time for the guy to admit it's over.. He isn't doing the people of Libya any good by dragging this out.

And none of the good Qadaffi may have done ever required the police state shit. He could have consolidated power simply by treating the people right.

Hoodeet (JW)

Agreed, but I wish rabblers wouldn't mimic the MSM/NATO use of the term "mercenary armies". It's a highly questionable term.

Then I'll amend it to "whoever the hell it is that he's continuing to order to kill people for no good reason".

Mon, 2011-08-29 12:05

#78

NDPP

Iran 'Discreetly Helped Libyan Rebels'

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/28/iran-discreetly-aided-libyan-rebels/

"The head of the National Transitional Council (NTC) Mustafa Abdel Jalil, sent a letter of thanks to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for having been on their side and helping,' he added.."

Libya's New Masters are Thankful for Sudan's Military Support

http://getsmartnews.com/news/188312

"The head of Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) confirmed reports that Sudan's military supported the Libyan rebels in their fight against Gaddafi's regime. He further thanked Bashir's government and pledged to return the favour on a much larger scale.."

Mon, 2011-08-29 12:17

#79

NDPP

Following the Money in Libya - by Geordie Dent

http://toronto.mediacoop.ca/story/following-money-lybia/8035

"Western companies in; eastern companies out as war winds down. 'We have lost Libya completely,' said Aram Shegunts of the Russia-Libya Business Council in Reuters. 'Our companies will lose everything there because NATO will prevent them from doing business in Libya."

Mon, 2011-08-29 16:16

#80

ikosmos

and China. Don't forget that China relies a great deal on Libyan oil. And this may be the strongest "reason" for the NATO war crimes in Libya; not merely the robbery of the national wealth of another country but sabotaging an economic rival.

Mon, 2011-08-29 18:51

#81

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
November 9, 2008

Dear Mr. President Obama,

I have the pleasure to send a congratulation note for the first time to an American president, and on behalf of all Africa, and of Cen-Sad, the base of the African pyramid, and on behalf of the Arab Maghreb Union, and in the name of all Arab leaders as I am their dean.

Since relations are resumed between our two countries, we have the right to congratulate you from the bottom of our hearts because you are the son of Africa.

God gives reign to whom He wishes and takes it away from whom He wishes; he holds dear whom he wants and humiliates whom he wants as well. He retains all the good in His hands, and He is the all powerful; and He pledged to confer His favors on those deemed weak and to bequeath them the Earth.

Blacks were deemed weak and were oppressed, and were taken to the American continent as slaves and indentured servants.

The main point is that Blacks shall not have an inferiority complex and imitate the Yankees.

They have to prove that they are partners to the whites and sharing the same continent; that the Whites themselves are not indigenous, but that they have come from overseas; that the black man is not less competent than the white man; and that the black color shall prevail in the world as predicted by the Green Book.

I salute the American people who have chosen you in these historical elections for such a high position, so that you may lead the change that you have promised them and for which they have rallied around you.

We hope that you lead the United States of America on the path of good and respect peoples' sovereignty and observe the policy of neutrality.

Sincerely,

Muammar al-Qadhafi

thanx to Wikileaks

Mon, 2011-08-29 19:33

#82

contrarianna

Quote:
'Libyans don't like people with dark skin, but some are innocent'

Any black African can expect arrest without proof he was not part of Gaddafi's forces. Patrick Cockburn reports from Tripoli

Tuesday, 30 August 2011

....
Racism against black Africans and Libyans with dark skin has long simmered in Libya. Before the war there were estimated to be a million illegal immigrants in the country, which has a population of six million and a workforce of 1.7 million.

In 2000 there were anti-immigrant riots in which dozens of workers from countries like Ghana, Cameroon, Niger, Chad, Nigeria and Burkina Faso were killed. The war has deepened racial hostility. The rebels claim that many of Colonel Gaddafi's soldiers were black African mercenaries. Amnesty International says these allegations are largely unproven and, from the beginning of the conflict, many of those arrested or, in some cases, executed by the rebels were undocumented labourers caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/libyans-dont-like-people-...

Mon, 2011-08-29 20:10

#83

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

Then I'll amend it to "whoever the hell it is that he's continuing to order to kill people for no good reason".

I would suspect that he is not ordering anyone to do anything at this time. All reports point to a complete breakdown in the government forces. Whoever is still fighting is doing so on their own accord. Is it really so hard for you to accept that there were two sides in this civil war not the people and a single madman?

Mon, 2011-08-29 20:23

#84

Fidel

That wikileaks report says it all. The ultra racist NATO and their al-Qa'eda friends just want the oil and to kick black Africans out of their Islamic emirate of the greater Maghreb. One corrupt petro-fuhrer maniplulated by the west, one volk, one maghreb. Racism and appalling greed go hand-in-hand. Now they can duke it out among themselves while the oil is siphoned off to a failed experiment in neoliberal ideology in Europe.

Mon, 2011-08-29 20:30

#85

Erik Redburn

Krago wrote:

Gaddafi's 'martyred' daughter still alive?

For a quarter of a century, Colonel Gaddafi claimed that his adopted baby daughter Hana was killed in a US airstrike.

The dictator even set up a shrine to the six-month-old infant in his Tripoli compound, with replica American missiles and furniture preserved behind glass screens.

On Friday, however, it appeared that it was all a ruse to whip up hatred against the West and win sympathy from ordinary Libyans.

....

Or maybe he thought he was protecting her by keeping her out of the lime light and away from future 'collateral' damage.

Mon, 2011-08-29 20:40

#86

Erik Redburn

Fidel wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:

... Actually, I recall that quite a few of the native Libyan rebels did ask for help from the West, it was broadcast widely in the early stages when they were first driven back. It helped give the US-UN the emotive justification to 'intervene'.

So by comparison if a majority of people living in Halifax don't like the political setup in Canada, they should activate Nova-Qaeda sleeper cells and call in airstrikes from a trans-Atlantic luftwaffe?

That might be a valid comparison if I ever agreed that this 'no fly zone' was ever just and necessary. (and Canadian leaders killed home grown democratic opposition) I was just just correcting 'frmrslr' on an overstatement.

Tue, 2011-08-30 00:05

#87

Frmrsldr

Ken Burch wrote:

He could have consolidated power simply by treating the people right.

Maybe he did.

Tripoli and Tripolitania (western Libya) fell as a result of the rebels assisted by NATO aerial bombing and U.S., U.K., French and Italian special forces.

Not by the Libyan people.

Hint: Have you heard any accounts of popular uprising by the Libyan people analogous the liberation of Paris (1944)?

Notice that the Libyan war is very nearly over now we hear all the horror stories about how bad Gadhafi and his family were and all the atrocities committed by his troops.

We still do hear of atrocities committed by (some) rebels but notice these are becoming fewer and fewer.

Tue, 2011-08-30 00:14

#88

Frmrsldr

Ken Burch wrote:

Then I'll amend it to "whoever the hell it is that he's continuing to order to kill people for no good reason".

We're not absolutely certain where Gadhafi is.

Maybe he left the country.

We don't know why (former) 'government' (Gadhafi's) troops continue fighting.

Maybe Gadhafi is in Sirte.

Maybe it's out of loyalty for Gadhafi or the good he accomplished.

Maybe they're trapped in Libya with no way out and, fearing reprisals (no one can deny that there have been reprisal killings) feel it's better to die fighting to the last round, their dignity and to "die with their boots on."

Maybe....?

Tue, 2011-08-30 00:31

#89

NDPP

The 'Liberation' of Libya: NATO Special Forces and Al Qaeda Join Hands - by Michel Chossudovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26255

"The 'pro-democracy' rebels are led by Al Qaeda paramilitary brigades under the supervision of NATO Special Forces. The 'Liberation' of Tripoli was carried out by 'former' members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG). The Jihadists and NATO work hand in glove. These 'former' Al Qaeda affiliated brigades constitute the backbone of the 'pro-democracy' rebellion...

NATO Special Forces with 'boots on the ground' pass unnoticed. Their identity is not known or revealed. They blend in to the Libyan rebellion landscape of machine guns and pickup trucks. What we are dealing with is a carefully planned military intellgence operation."

Tue, 2011-08-30 00:41

#90

Frmrsldr

Erik Redburn wrote:

That might be a valid comparison if I ever agreed that this 'no fly zone' was ever just and necessary. (and Canadian leaders killed home grown democratic opposition) I was just just correcting 'frmrslr' on an overstatement.

You didn't answer my questions as to

Who these people were.

How many of them there were.

Where they were at the time:

Were they Libyans in Libya at the time or were they Libyans who had been living in the U.S., U.K., France, Italy, Canada, etc., for a number of years or were they recent refugees who fled the fighting? Were any on the CIA or MI-6 payroll?

Who reported these stories? CNN, Fox News, BBC, the Guardian, the Independent(.co.uk/), CBC, CTV, Globe and Mail, The National Post?

Get a bunch of Libyans on the set (or in print) who are pro-foreign intervention, War of Aggression, foreign regime change, pro "Murder Inc.", "Gung-Ho, Rah! Rah!" for the U.S./NATO Luftwaffe to burn Libyan cities, villages, homes, and fellow Libyan men, women and children.

It's all rather convenient

Isn't it?

Fits Western government, Pentagon/CIA, NATO, Fawning Corporate Media support for foreign intervention, War of Aggression and foreign regime change proganda narrative bullshit quite nicely.

Doesn't it?

There is always a choice.

You can drink the mainstream conventional wisdom Kool Aid

Or you can approach it with skepticism.

Tue, 2011-08-30 02:24

#91

Erik Redburn

Oh fer fucks sake, more diversionary tactics You post-Marxists just can't admit error, no matter how small, can you? I made that post solely to point out that you were wrong that there were NO Libyans asking for foreign intervention There were. The issue whether they were right or not is kind of moot when we already agree that we shouldn't have taken part.

You know, contrary to the nineteenth century Judeo-Christian thought patterns that most Marxists still seem to cling to, there is no sin in error. The only sin is to refuse to recognise them.

Tue, 2011-08-30 03:01

#92

Fidel

LIBYA: R2P has now become "Right 2 Plunder"

Pepe Escobar wrote:
The white man's burden doesn't allow asking Africans what they think about the current Western/monarchical Arab onslaught on the northern shores of their continent. At least some are not beating around the bush.

Over 200 African leaders and intellectuals released a letter in Johannesburg, South Africa, stressing the "misuse of the United Nations Security Council to engage in militarized diplomacy to effect regime change in Libya", as well as the "marginalization of the African Union".

As for the Western "winners" in Libya, they are not even playing smoke and mirrors anymore. Richard Haass, president of that Gotha of the US establishment that is the Council on Foreign Relations, wrote a Financial Times op-ed blatantly stating, "The 'humanitarian' intervention introduced to save lives believed to be threatened was in fact a political intervention introduced to bring about regime change."

As for those lowly bit part local actors - Libyans from Cyrenaica - Haass already dispatched them to the dustbin of history: "Libyans will not be able to manage the situation about to emerge on their own", and with "two million barrels of oil a day" at stake, the only solution is an "international force". Translation: occupation army - as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Welcome to neo-colonialism 2.0.

Ultra racist neocolonialism. Iraq/Afghanistan all over again.

Tue, 2011-08-30 04:27

#93

NDPP

NATO Commits Massacre at Sirte: Razing the City to the Ground

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=628388?disqus

"3 days of non-stop bombing away from the public eye - URGENT APPEAL to humanitarians to force NATO to stop massacre.."

Sirte - The Apotheosis of 'Liberal Intervention' - by Craig Murray

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/08/sirte-the-apotheosis-of-l...

"Plainly the people of Sirte hold a different view to the 'rebels' as to who should run the country. NATO have in effect declared being in Gadaffi's political camp a capital offense. There is no way the massive assault on Sirte is 'facilitating dialogue'. It is rather killing those who do not hold to NATO approved opinions.

'Liberal intervention' does not exist. What we have is the opposite: highly selective neo-imperial wars aimed at ensuring politically, client control of key physical resources."

Welcome to New Tripoli (and vids)

http://rt.com/news/tripoli-situation-shortages-supply-401/

"Africa is up for grabs. Columnist for Foreign Policy in Focus, Conn Hallinan says the NATO operation in Libya is an implementation of Bush-era plans to gain control over Africa. 'What people need to do is to see that this is the first NATO operation in Africa and this goes back to the Bush administration which called for the creation of African Command - which called for not using troops but airforce and navy for the invasion of an African country...

They say the Security Council's protection of civilians mandate implemented by NATO does not end with the fall of the Gaddafi government and therefore NATO will continue to have some responsibilities, Matthew Lee says.."

Tue, 2011-08-30 06:15

#94

Frmrsldr

Erik Redburn wrote:

Oh fer fucks sake, more diversionary tactics You post-Marxists just can't admit error, no matter how small, can you? I made that post solely to point out that you were wrong that there were NO Libyans asking for foreign intervention There were. The issue whether they were right or not is kind of moot when we already agree that we shouldn't have taken part.

[Bolding not in original]

(Referring to the bolded portion:) Obviously THEY [those Libyans you are referring to] don't agree with US.

Tue, 2011-08-30 06:55

#95

A_J

NDPP wrote:

How American Brainwashed the World

http://www.mathaba.net/news?x=628323

"These videos record US fabricated lies..."

NDPP wrote:

NATO Commits Massacre at Sirte: Razing the City to the Ground

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=628388?disqus

"3 days of non-stop bombing away from the public eye - URGENT APPEAL to humanitarians to force NATO to stop massacre.."

Wikipedia wrote:

The Mathaba News Agency (al-Mathaba, meaning "The Center"), also called the Anti-Imperialism Center (AIC), is an alternative news agency created by the regime of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 1982 . . . It is affiliated with the International Green Charter Movement (IGCM), based on Gaddafi's Green Book and the political philosophy it espouses, known as Jamahiriya.

Tue, 2011-08-30 08:46

#96

howeird beale

nicely done a j

Tue, 2011-08-30 09:23

#97

Frmrsldr

And there is a problem with this because, what?

The U.S., the U.K. and NATO and E.U. countries even though they first supported and feted Gadhafi then turned against him like they did Saddam Hussein, are so morally pure and Gadhafi is so 'evil' that they are entirely justified to militarily intervene, wage a War of Aggression and engage in regime change in Libya or anywhere else they please (or not.) They are in the government change/assassination/murder business and that's "perfectly fine," (and nobody dare attempt that on them)?

Tue, 2011-08-30 11:42

#98

NDPP

The New Libya: Better Not Be Black - by Patrick Cockburn

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/30/the-new-libya/

"But the Libyan rebels are hostile to black Africans in general. One of the militiamen, who have been in control of this police station sicne the police fled, said simply 'Libyan people don't like people with dark skins, though some of them may be innocent.'..

With the fall of Gaddafi, those who have not already fled face persecution or even murder. Last weekend 20 bodies of mostly black men, several of them handcuffed and others already wounded, were found after an apparent mass execution at a roundabout near Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya headquarters."

Open Season: Hunting Black People in Libya

http://www.blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7609/2011-08-30.html

"Rebels commit Klu Klux Klan type atrocities against black people in Libya..."

This is what your Canadian NATO General, Lt Gen Charles Bouchard has unleashed in Libya - this is the 'New Libya' your tax dollars and all your representatives, save MP Elizabeth May, voted for. Charge Bouchard for NATO warcrimes now!

Tue, 2011-08-30 12:45

#99

contrarianna

Libya and The Obama Doctrine

Quote:

Libya No Model
By Matthew Rothschild, August 29, 2011
...

The New York Times today reports that Administration officials say the Libyan intervention “may, in some important ways, become a model for how the United States wields force in other countries where its interests are threatened.”

... there’s a big difference between threatening the United States and threatening U.S. “interests”: Any country that opposes free trade and corporate domination may be said to threaten U.S. interests, at least the way the power elite defines them. So now future Presidents can cite the Libya intervention as precedent for bombing, say, Venezuela....

http://www.progressive.org/libya.html

Tue, 2011-08-30 13:34

#100

M. Spector M. Spector's picture