Libya 17

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Tue, 2011-08-30 21:25

#102

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

"Razing the City to the Ground"

Wow, look at the place...

Also...

Libya rebels pledge assault on Gadhafi stronghold

Quote:

The rebels and NATO said that Gadhafi loyalists were negotiating the fate of Sirte, a heavily militarized city some 250 miles (400 kilometers) east of the capital, Tripoli.

Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the head of the rebels' National Transitional Council, said that negotiations with forces in Sirte would end Saturday after the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr, when the rebels would "act decisively and militarily."

We can't wait more than that," he told reporters in the eastern city of Benghazi. "We seek and support any efforts to enter these places peacefully. At the end, it might be decided militarily. I hope it will not be the case."

Col. Roland Lavoie, a NATO spokesman, said it's possible Sirte might surrender without a fight.

Perhaps the UN can arrange to have a ship come in and offer any non Libyan troops passage back to their countries of origin. That could save Sirte from some of the fighting.

Tue, 2011-08-30 21:40

#103

ikosmos

The UN has played the role of transmission belt for the wishes of the NATO Axis. Not likely.

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:11

#104

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Yeah, but it would be in everyone's interest, NATO included, if Sirte fell without much of a fight; well everyone aside from Kaddafi and those that think he can make a comeback from this battle. The non Libyan fighters must know they stand little chance of surviving surrendering when the city falls so giving those whom were in Kaddafi's hire a way out of the city would increase the chances of the city just giving up without much of a fight.

The fall of Sirte and the end of the revolt is going be messy, all but a few civil wars endings are, it's just a matter of how messy it's going to be.

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:18

#105

ikosmos

The only interests that truly matter are those of the Libyan people. By what right should the interests of a foreign military alliance, such as NATO, have any bearing here? Of course if you mean that might is right then you should just say so ...

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:34

#106

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

? I'm confused by your post. So it would be in the interest of the Libyan people to have a huge Stalingrad style battle in Sirte? I don't think so.

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:41

#107

ikosmos

No, I'm wondering why you are giving the interests of NATO such attention and concern.

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:51

#108

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

"Razing the City to the Ground"

Wow, look at the place...

Jeezus.

Are you sure that's not either Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

Why are we militarily intervening and waging a War of Aggression on Libya, again?

Tue, 2011-08-30 22:56

#109

ikosmos

I think Bec De C put that in because it was "amusing" or having sarcasm value or something like that. War as a source of merriment.

Tue, 2011-08-30 23:13

#110

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

ikosmos wrote:

No, I'm wondering why you are giving the interests of NATO such attention and concern.

How is saying the non Libyan solders that are fighting for Kaddafi (not NATO) should be allowed to leave Sirte so there is less of a fight when it falls giving NATO attention and concern? Shouldn't you be accusing me of giving the Kaddafi mercenaries attention and concern?

Tue, 2011-08-30 23:24

#111

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

How is saying the non Libyan solders that are fighting for Kaddafi (not NATO) should be allowed to leave Sirte so there is less of a fight when it falls giving NATO attention and concern? Shouldn't you be accusing me of giving the Kaddafi mercenaries attention and concern?

Q: Who are these "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Are they these black Africans we have been hearing about?

Q: Why the concern over the "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Is it because of fear of Uncle Sam's and Nato's 'little darling' rebels might murder unarmed black Africans who later turn out to be undocumented workers?

Tue, 2011-08-30 23:54

#112

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

How is saying the non Libyan solders that are fighting for Kaddafi (not NATO) should be allowed to leave Sirte so there is less of a fight when it falls giving NATO attention and concern? Shouldn't you be accusing me of giving the Kaddafi mercenaries attention and concern?

Q: Who are these "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Are they these black Africans we have been hearing about?

Q: Why the concern over the "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Is it because of fear of Uncle Sam's and Nato's 'little darling' rebels might murder unarmed black Africans who later turn out to be undocumented workers?

You figure out who they are. I still think it would be better if they are allowed to leave; obviously you guys seem to think otherwise for some bizarre reason I don't really understand.

You're talking in circles again; I guess you're getting all A-IAAC on me.

About the picture: Wasn't being sarcastic at all: the picture is of Tokyo Japan after the firestorm caused by US incendiary bombing... a razed to the ground city would you not agree and quit horrable. The article title posted by another babbler says Sirte was razed to the ground so that is probably a good representation of what the city looks like.

Wed, 2011-08-31 01:35

#113

howeird beale

M. Spector wrote:

howeird beale wrote:

nicely done a j

Yes, smug congratulations are due all around the right fringe of babble. If it wasn't published in the Globe and Mail, then it can't be true.

Dude, if it was published in the Globe, obviously it has to be analyzed for how it serves the corporate elites and how it serves to mold the opinions of both them and their executive class underlings who take their cues on how to behave from the Globe.

Identically, if it comes from Qadaffi's own website, it has to analyzed through the filter of how it serves Qadaffi's interests and seeks to mold the behavior of his acolytes.

I dont have to be a fascist to not want to check my brains at the door.

Wed, 2011-08-31 02:40

#114

NDPP

Amnesty International - Libya: Fears for Detainees Held By Anti-Gaddafi Forces

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/libya-fears-detainees-held-fo...

"People suspected of having fought for Colonel Mu'ammur Gaddafi, in particular black Libyans and sub-Saharan Africans, are at high risk of abuse by anti-Gaddafi forces, Amnesty International said today after witnessing black Libyans being targeted in Tripoli on Monday.."

Tripoli Faces Humanitarian Crisis - by Bill Van Auken

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/liby-a30.shtml

"The pretense that this air war is being carried out under the UN mandate to protect civilians has become increasingly ludicrous as US, British, [Canadian] and French war planes are used to pound civilians population centers to prepare the way for invading 'rebel' armies.."

CIA Recruits 1,500 From Mazar-e-Sharif

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politi...

"The Central Intelligence Agency of the United States recruited over 1,500 men from Mazar-e-Sharif for fighting against the Qaddafi forces in Libya. Sources told The Nation: 'Most of the men have been recruited from Afghanistan. They are Uzbeks, Persians and Hazaras. According to the footage, these men attired in Uzbek-style of shalwara and Hazara-Uzbek Kurta were found fighting in Libyan cities.'

When an Al Jazeera reporter pointed it out he was disallowed by the rebels 'to capture images'. The military campaign against Qaddafi will continue 'indefinitely' until he steps down, UK Foreign Secretary William Hague told reporters."

Divisions Emerge Among Libya's NATO-Led Rebels - by Bill Van Auken

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/liby-a31.shtml

"The armed bands that have seized control of the Libyan capital have given no indication that they accept the NTC's authority. Many of these elements, drawn from the Western mountain region and the city of Misrata, have voiced contempt for the collecction of ex-Gaddafi ministers, like Jalil, CIA and other Wetern Intelligence assets and tribal politicians based in Benghazi.."

Wed, 2011-08-31 03:42

#115

Erik Redburn

Frmrsldr wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:

Oh fer fucks sake, more diversionary tactics You post-Marxists just can't admit error, no matter how small, can you? I made that post solely to point out that you were wrong that there were NO Libyans asking for foreign intervention There were. The issue whether they were right or not is kind of moot when we already agree that we shouldn't have taken part.

[Bolding not in original]

(Referring to the bolded portion:) Obviously THEY [those Libyans you are referring to] don't agree with US.

Obviously.

I won't repeat the point again, but I will say that any gathering of more than three people is going to have disagreements while any group over 30 will have struggles for leadership.

Wed, 2011-08-31 07:21

#116

Frmrsldr

Frmrsldr wrote:

Q: Who are these "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Are they these black Africans we have been hearing about?

Q: Why the concern over the "foreign mercenaries fighting for Gadhafi"?

A: Is it because of fear of Uncle Sam's and Nato's 'little darling' rebels might murder unarmed black Africans who later turn out to be undocumented workers?

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

You figure out who they are. I still think it would be better if they are allowed to leave; obviously you guys seem to think otherwise for some bizarre reason I don't really understand.

You're talking in circles again;...

You're the one talking in circles.

Good job of avoiding the questions.

"You figure out who they [the "foreign mercenaries"] are." This confirms my suspicion that your interest in the "foreign mercenaries" is a faux concern.

Coming from a guy who cheers the U.S./NATO military intervention, War of Aggression and regime change in Libya, this smacks of sanctimonious hypocrisy.

Wed, 2011-08-31 07:52

#117

Hoodeet

So now it's in the open: Afghans (how many of them are being recruited from among the the rapist, drug-running, ethnocidal warlords?)

are conveniently removed from the field (recruited as fighters) while talks with the Taliban are getting started; at the same time, they show

the Taliban that NATO really cares for the extremist mad dogs of sharia law and will open the way for their return --finally, after being banned

and persecuted by Ghaddafi!-- to Libya. Lovely. A perfect arrangement.

Oh, and the oil falls back under the control of the west, and the west gains access to sub-Saharan Africa.

Wed, 2011-08-31 09:57

#118

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

howeird beale wrote:

I dont have to be a fascist to not want to check my brains at the door.

So I guess we can expect to see your sneering dismissal - er, "analysis" - every time someone posts a link to a story in the Globe and Mail from now on?

I didn't think so.

Wed, 2011-08-31 10:01

#119

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:

Are you sure that's not either Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

It's Tokyo, after the repeated firebombings.

A sarcastic attempt to minimize the fate of the town of Sirte at the hands of NATO and its proxy ground troops.

Wed, 2011-08-31 10:10

#120

MegB

Continued here.

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