To be clear, the propaganda value is in the campaign to call for war crimes charges, even if charges are never laid.
We can campaign today, immediately, to demand the warmongers be brought to justice, and start today, immediately, to win people to our perspective. Even if charges are never laid, the campaign could be a great success in galvanizing opposition to the neoliberal agenda of perpetual war.
What Redburn has trouble wrapping his head around is the idea that the purpose and aim of calling for war crimes charges against Bouchard is not to secure a conviction (which of course will not happen), but to propagandize around Canada's criminal role in the assault on Libya and maybe change a few people's minds about supporting Harper's war agenda - a goal that is well within reach.
It's about raising people's political consciousness, not about playing lawyer.
What Spector has troubling wrapping his mind around is that NDPP has been insulting others here because of their lack of ACTION yet doesn't display even the slighest notion on how to proceed himself, nor show the slightest inclination to even try. Posting some articles that make no effort at even APPEARING to be objective, on a website he himself apparently has little respect for, just won't cut it.
...articles that make no effort at even APPEARING to be objective...
You want "objectivity" in journalism? on babble?
What is that, anyway?
surely the lack of national awareness/ action on these matters is not in dispute? Yes, people with awareness have a responsibility to do something about it. As for what I may or may not be doing besides posting articles 'that 'make no effort at even appearing to be objective', you haven't the foggiest notion what I may or may not be doing outside of Babble. What are YOU doing to stop your government and opposition parties in their joint criminal enterprise in Libya? I'm sure it will be time better spent than hectoring me. As for Babble, it's a mess, drifting rightwards and people are leaving in droves. I do freely admit to the absence of any inclination to 'cut it' for you however. But please do tell me what 'objective' sources you read and I'll see what I can do. Bye Eric...
Of course not, but then I have no intention of being diverted by another red herring. (philosophers for the record should have sorted out years ago what can be objective -physical facts- and what not -our reactions to them, and come to some commonsense grounding- our ability to distinguish between the two, based on the very fact we survive in a real world, albiet one with different POVs; but they too have been too academic to long) Right journalism succeeds where the lefts fails (aside from the obviously massive difference in distributive capacity) because it tries to APPEAR objective, using a few simple techniques that could at least be emulated. Or better ye SURPASSED, by using real journalistic techniques with a history of success, starting with SEEing first-hand what the natives are experiencing, in all its complexity, and trying to empathise without immediately choosing sides. Anyhow, back to my only point here, he was calling for action from people he shows no respect for. It doesn't even make sense to me, politically.
But whatever, I will not-so gracefully withdraw from this particular thread-drift. Others can deal with the cross-flack for a change, i'll just have to find some other way to establish some middleground on the left. Starting with those who might see the value in it.
Otherwise I wish Kucinich luck. He can by rights lodge a complaint to the international human rights tribunal, which the US itself doesn't really recognie except where convenient, but he has no moe chance of getting convictions than anyone else without a victoroius army or massive transnational public support. It might be worth a try anyway, though, just for the exposure it Could stir up, if he gets a few other notable signatories, good international lawyers, and some broader public petition(s) for $upport. That's my opinion on this.
Cuba Recalls Ambassador from Libya
http://rt.com/news/line/2011-09-04/#id17561
"Cuba announced it has withdrawn its ambassador and diplomatic mission from Libya. The step is being taken as a sign of protest against NATO forces' alleged killing of thousands of civilians. In a statement released by the Cuban Ministry of Foreign Affairs, officials reiterated that Cuba does not recognize the rebels transitional government.."
One Hell of a Humanitarian Mission: 30,000 Bombs over Libya - by Thomas Mountain
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/02/30000-bombs-over-libya/
"After some 8,000 bombing raids, with estimates of 4 bombs used per attack NATO has already dropped over 30,000 bombs on Libya. That's almost 200 bombs per day for 6 months, some tens of thousands of tons of high explosives. With an estimated 2 Libyans killed per bomb and without a single NATO casualty, the Western regimes have massacred over 60,000 Libyans in the past half year with the rebels themselves having said there have been 50,000 Libyan deaths. One hell of a humanitarian mssion isn't it...?"
"This is the best of Canada's military tradition,' said Harper. Dubbed Operation Unified Protector, the NATO mission is overseen by Canadian Lieutenant-General Charles ['The Butcher'] Bouchard, who personally briefed Harper. So far Canada has dropped 550 bombs on the country and the jets have flown over 1,000 sorties, according to statistics provided Tuesday [Sept 1]
'For the Gadhafi's of this world pay no attention to the force of argument,' he told around 100 soldiers gathered at the NATO military base in southern Italy. 'The only thing they get is the argument of force itself. And that you have delivered in a cause that is just and right."
Stephen Harper: Canadian Forces Punched Above Their Weight in Libya
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/01/stephen-harper-canadian-forces-l...
ps 'Love is better than anger, hope is better than fear' - JL
Libya's Great Man-Made River Project and NATO Warcrimes
http://mathaba.net/news/?x=628492?disqus
"Oh, and by the way, attacking essential civilian infrastructure is a war crime..."
The Murderers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Sdgh7k5Q8&feature=player_embedded
"The only thing they get is the argument of force itself. And that you've delivered in a cause that is good and right." Stephen Harper
"The military mission was to protect civilians from Gadhafi and his regime" - Jack Harris NDP
And Jack Harris speaks for the NDP?
I, for one, am not rejoining any time soon, at least as long as the likes of him and Dewar et al. claim their position is the NDP's.
Fidelio will be here directly I expect to remind you that you've no alternative because the other parties are far worse.
I don't see what's wrong with working on issues through other alliances and social justice groups without having to negotiate all the political and the bureaucratic b.s. inside parties that are constantly torn between left and right, between playing the parliamentary game for strategic reasons (plus being ultra cautious about sensitive issues for fear of alienating donors and voters from particular groups) and taking principled stands.
There's no shortage of problems to be dealt with through public education, mobilizations, and whatever civil action may be called for.
If there can be alliances with the NDP and elements of other parties, so be it, but some of us just aren't cut out (or aren't willing) to spend the little spare time we have spinning our wheels on party politics. There can be a kind of fetishization of a party, or of party politics, that's distracting, draining and ultimately disempowering.
Starting with those who might see the value in it.
I see the value in it
Closing for length.
