Libya 18

Gaddafi is in Libya: Spokesman

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/197807.html

"The spokesman for Libyan fugitive ruler Muammar Gaddafi has said that Gaddafi is still in his homeland, denying information about a convoy of army vehicles that have reportedly crossed into Niger.."

since this thread is winding up (down?),

I guess we can just make our conclusions unanimous, along w. Nick Kristof, who at least has the benefit of talking to actual Libyans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/opinion/kristof-from-libyans-thank-you...

how about this one?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/opinion/sunday/kristof-a-libyan-prisoner-lives-to-tell-his-story.html?ref=nicholasdkristof

So how many civilian deaths are acceptable in a humanitarian mission.  The low estimates are at least 60,000 people have died in this little intervention. Why are their lives expendable?  Why are Libyans who live in towns where many people support Gaddafi being bombed day and night by NATO.  That is the type of violence the no-fly zone was put in place to prevent.  Did the UN say that only people who live in rebel held towns should be protected and the rest of the civilians can be bombed indiscriminately.

It was always about regime change and never about protecting civilians.  The proof is in the relentless bombing of civilians who are on the wrong side of this civil war.

DaveW wrote:

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

 

I guess the people who had their houses bombed and their family members murdered are in the streets celebrating as well.  Your posts merely seems to say that one side is evil incarnate and deserves to die at the hands of Canadian bombs so who the fuck cares about them.

We killed tens of thousands of Libyans who I am sure never asked for their cities to be bombed and their infrastructure destroyed.  Ask the people of Afghanistan and Iraq if they feel that NATO/US intervention has bettered their lives?   They are still trying to get rid of the corrupt governments installed by NATO/US intervention. Mark my words they will install a religious based constitution to replace the secular government they overthrew.  Sharia law will be coming soon to Libya because that is true democracy according to the west's "allies."  

I will take this humanitarian bullshit seriously when NATO bombs the crap out of Saudi Arabia for the human rights abuses its dictatorship imposes on its people each and every day.  Instead we cheer their invasion of Bahrain to put down a democratic protest.  Every empire and every invading country has always said it was protecting civilians.  

Ready Aye Ready the Kaiser is evil incarnate and we have to protect the women and children from the Hun.  After a century it seems the same propaganda techniques are still effective.  Our enemies are brutes who will rape and pillage and have no regard for human decency so WAR is JUSTIFIED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFnce-4e74

DaveW wrote:

Hoodeet wrote:

Bully for him.  So glad he's free and being a poster child for the intervention.

What about the complete silence around the fate of female soldiers and guards from the Ghaddafi elite units?  Where are they?  How safe are they from the fundamentalists and other degenerates who've already looted the weapons and documents?

What about the REAL statistics on the torture and killing of Blacks AND on the scope of the destruction of infrastructure AND on the deaths of non-combatants.

good questions, let's answer them ....

the thread above is too much of a one-note echo chamber (NATO = bad!) to critically debate them; once rebel Libya enters the UN officially in September, many questions can/will be answered.

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

 

You say "Let's answer those questions" and then  gaily drop the subject and proceed to do some more cheerleading based on biased news reporting and on your wishful thinking. 

How can those questions I raised be answered, now or when the NTC sends its spanking new delegation-as-democratic-façade-for-a-sharia-state-enforced-by-racist-tribal-goons to the U.N.?    Are C.B.C. or PBS or CNN or BBC or Murdoch going to ask the tough questions? 

Or  are Amy Goodman's middle eastern producers going to be enlightened suddenly, perhaps, and realize there are 100 questions about the other side of this glorious liberation? 

Or are you expecting TVQatar -I mean Al-Jazeera- to ask them?

DaveW wrote:

good questions, let's answer them ....

the thread above is too much of a one-note echo chamber (NATO = bad!) to critically debate them;

O.K. If NATO is "good" then let's find some evidence that supports this claim:

Let's see, NATO was involved in the carpet bombing of Serbia and Kosovo. NATO is involved in the illegal war on Afghanistan bombing, among other things, weddings and child naming ceremonies. NATO is currently involved in the illegal war on Libya carpet bombing cities and civilian populated areas.

So um, I don't see any evidence that supports the claim that NATO is "good."

DaveW wrote:

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

Yes, that's what you can expect from selective searching.

Caption:  "FREE AT LAST!"

Tragicómix

Continued here.