continued from here:
http://rabble.ca/babble/ontario/ndp-dumps-weisleder-candidate#comment-12...
Socialist Thornhill Aliens Do The Darndest Things!
Thu, 2011-09-08 17:48
#1
Socialist Thornhill Aliens Do The Darndest Things!
Thu, 2011-09-08 18:50
#2
radiorahim
I think some folks here are on to something. Aliens invaded the Thornhill NDP riding association nomination meeting and voted for Barry Weisleder as their candidate!
The ONDP executive won't explain the reasons for giving Weisleder the boot because there would be panic in the streets of Thornhill if folks knew of this extra terrestrial invasion.
So, they'll hold a new nomination meeting and put every possible candidate through their extra special high tech cylon detection machine.
And check this out!
Thu, 2011-09-08 19:07
#3
And check this out!
Why? Aren't people subjugated, subdued and mocked by the elite and their lapdog newz media enough as it is? If they would prefer that people not believe in big foot, then why not spend more money on education and job training? And if they would prefer that people not believe in absurd 9/11 conspiracy theories, there is a solution to that, too.
Thu, 2011-09-08 19:44
#4
knownothing
There is just no way to square this. It is damn indefensible corruption. If this is how the NDP is going to conduct itself they deserve to get blown out of the water. There is nothing Democratic about this. They are saying now that he didn't properly reveal all his posts online but they would have known all that before he was given a pass to the nomination election. His presence in the NDP makes the party stronger and he was a clear voice at the convention standing up against the Liberalization of our party. I can hardly tell them apart anymore with war-mongering Dewar, Stoffer the monarchist and Pat Martin the ...well... Liberal! We should elect a whole bunch of Barry Weisleders and get this pathetic excuse for a socialist party back on its ideological track.
Thu, 2011-09-08 19:53
#5
The NDP is also going to have to get with the program when it comes to online discussion, blogging, and opinion. Social media as we know it has been around for over a decade now. There is no way that people, especially younger people, are going to be able to track back for the last decade and divulge every post they ever made online.
If that's the bar now, then everyone's a liar. I have no idea how many corners of the internet stuff I've written online have gone, and if I ever tried to tally up or remember everything I ever posted, I'd have a tough time. Heck, I have a tough time remembering everything I've ever written on this website alone, although I'm sure I'd probably cringe at some of the stuff I wrote a decade ago.
Finding people who have never posted any strong opinions or anything critical of anything, or anything that can be twisted by the National Post into something bad is going to get harder and harder, as more people engage in discussions online. It's not just a marginal activity anymore - everyone does it, and they do it all day and night.
Do we want to have only people who have known since they were 12 that they were going to grow up and be a politician and grew up ensuring they never made any comment online that could be a "gaffe" a decade later? Or do we want real people, with real opinions, real insights, and real humanity to run?
I know what I want.
Thu, 2011-09-08 20:18
#6
ikosmos
Meh. The higher-ups in the Provincial NDP of Ontario decided that they didn't want Barry W. as a candidate in Thornhill, were too lazy to run anyone against him, so they just carried out an administrative "termination" to get what they wanted. The explanation comes after the fact and therefore is basically ... made up bullshit. They must really hate this guy and therefore the real reason(s) for this precipitous action would be very intereresting. Maybe it's because he was leader of the socialist caucus and maybe there's more to it.
Lots of employers behave this way when they want to get rid of a "troublemaker" and the laws protect them. They often don't even have to provide the made up bullshit at the end.
Thu, 2011-09-08 22:57
#8
the provincal NDP party brass needs to remember the quote "love is better than anger, HOPE is better than fear, and optimism is better than despair"
Thu, 2011-09-08 23:11
#9
The NDP is also going to have to get with the program when it comes to online discussion, blogging, and opinion. Social media as we know it has been around for over a decade now. There is no way that people, especially younger people, are going to be able to track back for the last decade and divulge every post they ever made online.
If that's the bar now, then everyone's a liar. I have no idea how many corners of the internet stuff I've written online have gone, and if I ever tried to tally up or remember everything I ever posted, I'd have a tough time. Heck, I have a tough time remembering everything I've ever written on this website alone, although I'm sure I'd probably cringe at some of the stuff I wrote a decade ago.
Finding people who have never posted any strong opinions or anything critical of anything, or anything that can be twisted by the National Post into something bad is going to get harder and harder, as more people engage in discussions online. It's not just a marginal activity anymore - everyone does it, and they do it all day and night.
Do we want to have only people who have known since they were 12 that they were going to grow up and be a politician and grew up ensuring they never made any comment online that could be a "gaffe" a decade later? Or do we want real people, with real opinions, real insights, and real humanity to run?
I know what I want.
Why should politicians not express strong opinions? Is it because powerful people control not only their hirelings in government but most media and communications as well? Are governments and the lapdog newz media controlling how people think and express themselves through social and psychological means in more subtle ways than guns to our heads dictatorship? Because if true, it's as diabolical as anything Orwell and others before him described in warning us about future-present.
Fri, 2011-09-09 00:20
#10
I knew Barry was a Trot, but I never figured he was a Posadist
UFO's? Let's Google that...
Fri, 2011-09-09 06:08
#11
Why should politicians not express strong opinions? Is it because powerful people control not only their hirelings in government but most media and communications as well? Are governments and the lapdog newz media controlling how people think and express themselves through social and psychological means in more subtle ways than guns to our heads dictatorship? Because if true, it's as diabolical as anything Orwell and others before him described in warning us about future-present.
Those are good questions to ask your party, Fidel.
Fri, 2011-09-09 08:16
#12
good plan, don't vote please, and please tell everyone to be outraged and stay home all progressives. I guess the ONDP is trying to run an election, province wide, going up against MSM who don't like anything progressive, and just love to give Barry press because he speaks for how all social democrats think and feel in Ontario. And yes, the ONDP should make Barry the priority of this week of the campaign kickoff because isn't it all about Barry?
Okay, I come home from working in Robertson's campaign at night and read the rabble news, and this is it???? Geez,
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!There is just no way to square this. It is damn indefensible corruption. If this is how the NDP is going to conduct itself they deserve to get blown out of the water. There is nothing Democratic about this. They are saying now that he didn't properly reveal all his posts online but they would have known all that before he was given a pass to the nomination election. His presence in the NDP makes the party stronger and he was a clear voice at the convention standing up against the Liberalization of our party. I can hardly tell them apart anymore with war-mongering Dewar, Stoffer the monarchist and Pat Martin the ...well... Liberal! We should elect a whole bunch of Barry Weisleders and get this pathetic excuse for a socialist party back on its ideological track.
Fri, 2011-09-09 08:35
#13
Why should politicians not express strong opinions? Is it because powerful people control not only their hirelings in government but most media and communications as well? Are governments and the lapdog newz media controlling how people think and express themselves through social and psychological means in more subtle ways than guns to our heads dictatorship? Because if true, it's as diabolical as anything Orwell and others before him described in warning us about future-present.
Those are good questions to ask your party, Fidel.
Yes I will ask the Ontario NDP to please do something about the corporate sponsored newz media squelching any and all political voices that aren't in tune with big brother's agenda. I am not sure but I believe most Canadians either don't care or are completely oblivious to what's going on in a tiny country in the "Middle East". Most Canaidans probably don't realize or care that the Government in Colombia is murdering union leaders, or that Haiti is an oppressive hellhole and elites propped-up by Canada's largest trade partner. I think it's awful, too. But the NDP doesn't have the resources to educate every Canadian on world geography and geopolitics. Not even the Federal NDP has that kind of obligation. As far as FPTP politics is concerned, the issues that matter to the people actually showing up at the polls on election day are domestic in nature. It's not ideal, no it isn't. We chastize posters here for meandering off topic and deraling threads, and I think the NDP leadership has the right to order its candidates to stick to the subject at hand as well, like all matters that have to do with 13 million people in Ontario not a few million thousands of miles away. That sounds crude, I know. But it's easy to criticize one party trying to cope within a system that makes even less sense. We know why the ONDP has done this to Barry. Let's stop beating around the bush as if it's the NDP who are out of tune with a modern democratic process in Ontario, because that would be mind-bending.
Fri, 2011-09-09 18:09
#14
Uh again do we actually have an idea as to why the ONDP took him out? Did the executive actually mention anything about his criticisms of Israel or is that an assumption? We only know they are uneasy with democratic decisions at the riding level and that they do not like BW.
Fri, 2011-09-09 19:13
#15
What if an NDP candidate was outspoken about calling for a new 9/11 investigation? How many of Barry's supporters would get behind the 9/11 truth/anti-war movement demanding a kind of glasnost in North America?
Sun, 2011-09-11 17:26
#16
good plan, don't vote please, and please tell everyone to be outraged and stay home all progressives. I guess the ONDP is trying to run an election, province wide, going up against MSM who don't like anything progressive, and just love to give Barry press because he speaks for how all social democrats think and feel in Ontario. And yes, the ONDP should make Barry the priority of this week of the campaign kickoff because isn't it all about Barry?
Okay, I come home from working in Robertson's campaign at night and read the rabble news, and this is it???? Geez,
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!There is just no way to square this. It is damn indefensible corruption. If this is how the NDP is going to conduct itself they deserve to get blown out of the water. There is nothing Democratic about this. They are saying now that he didn't properly reveal all his posts online but they would have known all that before he was given a pass to the nomination election. His presence in the NDP makes the party stronger and he was a clear voice at the convention standing up against the Liberalization of our party. I can hardly tell them apart anymore with war-mongering Dewar, Stoffer the monarchist and Pat Martin the ...well... Liberal! We should elect a whole bunch of Barry Weisleders and get this pathetic excuse for a socialist party back on its ideological track.
The only reason the first week of the campaign has been "about Barry"(assuming that it actually has)is that the ONDP pulled this arrogant, heavy-handed trick. There's no way you can seriously argue that Weisleder could have done anything as a candidate that could possibly have done MORE damage to the party than what Horvath's toadies did here.
It's pretty clear that things like this were why Horvath made a point of saying she was ok with the word "socialism"-obviously, she only did that to give her ideological cover to do things like this.
It would have been enough to give Barry a "minder" to watch what he said on the stump.
Sun, 2011-09-11 19:56
#17
The Socialist Party of Ontario plan to field a candidate in Thornhill.
Sun, 2011-09-11 21:35
#18
Great. And it's possible that that candidate will OUTPOLL the imposed ONDP candidate now, which never would have happened before. But that's ok because making sure the ONDP candidate is "safe" and "a team player"-in other words, that that candiate agree to be irrelevant-is all that matters. It's horribly unfair to the person who's being put in as the ONDP candidate, because no one will see that person's nomination as legitimate and no one will want to work for that candidate. How could anyone STILL think that voting ONDP in Thornhill could be worth anything after this?
I don't know Weisleder, he's probably as fallible as anybody else...but it's time for everyone to admit that the ONDP stepped in it big time here and that no good will come to them for doing this.
Sun, 2011-09-11 23:39
#19
I knew Barry was a Trot, but I never figured he was a Posadist
You've made my day!
Sun, 2011-09-11 23:53
#20
radiorahim
The Thornhill NDP has now picked a replacement candidate according to this article
"Mr. Weisleder has thrown his support behind her, but said members across the province will launch a “restore democracy in the Ontario NDP” campaign and the riding executive plans to appeal his removal at a party meeting Nov. 19."
Mon, 2011-09-12 00:03
#21
Four days after the official launch of the provincial election campaign, the riding of Thornhill has finally a chosen its NDP candidate - but it has come with controversy.Cindy Hackelberg beat out Simon Strelchik in a heated nomination meeting Sunday afternoon. She is the last NDP candidate to be chosen across the province.
Ms Hackelberg, a newlywed who moved to Thornhill a month ago, was selected to take the place of Barry Weisleder, a left-wing activist unexpectedly dumped by party brass shortly after his nomination last week.
Mr. Weisleder's nomination was rescinded because of "non-disclosure" of an article he'd written critical of the NDP party and its leader Andrea Horwath, Ed Dale, Thornhill riding chief financial officer, told a meeting of about 60 party supporters Sunday.
...
Mr. Strelchik was grilled by party members at the meeting wanting to know if he was the one who had contacted NDP officials after his loss Sept. 1 to Mr. Weisleder."I congratulated him, I was behind him," he told the group.
When pressed, he added, "I shared with my friends in the party my concerns".
There has been speculation Mr. Weisleder's views are too far to the left for some in the party, or his views against Israel too inflammatory for this highly Jewish riding.
Mr. Strelchik's mother, Irma Strelchik, who attended the meeting, said she believes the latter was the real reason. "He is against Israel so he is against Jews and the main office found out about it," she said.
Draw your own conclusions. Barry has claimed that he did include the article (along with everything else he wrote) in his nomination package. The line coming from the brass is that it is over non-disclosure of the article, not the content itself.
There also seems to be a fair bit of speculation that the real reason why Barry was dropped is because he is "against Jews." While the notion that Barry is an anti-semite is nonsense (isn't Barry Jewish himself? Does that mean Barry is against himself?), I'm also curious how much his opinions regarding Palestine/Israel factored into the decision. I'm sure it didn't help him any in the eyes of the mothership.
Mon, 2011-09-12 00:42
#22
The Thornhill NDP has now picked a replacement candidate according to this article
"Mr. Weisleder has thrown his support behind her, but said members across the province will launch a “restore democracy in the Ontario NDP” campaign and the riding executive plans to appeal his removal at a party meeting Nov. 19."
With that action, Weisleder has shown himself to be the better person.
Perhaps his use of this situation to start a pro-democracy campaign for the ONDP is the best possible outcome.
It clearly shows that all who attacked the man here owe him an apology...since it shows that this was never about the Weisleder's own ego or personal agenda at all, but a legitimate question of whether internal democracy still exists in the ONDP. Removing candidates is supposed to be something the Liberals and Tories do.
And the comments of Simon Strelchik's mother are beyond disgusting. How dare she say that a Jewish person is "against Jews"?
Mon, 2011-09-12 01:14
#23
It's a good thing Lesley Hughes isn't a candidate in that riding. That's for sure. Because I get the strong impression she would be thrown to the wolves for deviating from the lapdog newz media's obligatory support for imperialism in general.
Mon, 2011-09-12 10:17
#24
M. Spector
From: Barry Weisleder
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 1:16 AM
To: Darlene Lawson
Subject: Re: Thornhill nomination
Hello Darlene,
I am very disturbed and disappointed by your message. You have no legitimate grounds to rescind my nomination, which the members of Thornhill NDP democratically voted to approve. Your action is an attack on the rights of the members of Thornhill NDP, on my rights as a member of the party, and on the principle of party democracy.
You promised Friday night to call me the next day to discuss this situation. I awaited your call on Saturday, expecting you to fulfill the courtesy you pledged. Instead, in a very impersonal and bureaucratic fashion, you sent me an e-message, with which you presented the fallacious basis for your decision.
In the first place, I have never been accused, let alone found guilty, of any impropriety or illegality in relation to any Canadian law, or found to be in violation of any standards of practice by any professional body. The matters to which you referred are internal to OSSTF, a union of teachers. They arise from a factional political situation in which my bargaining unit suffered a hostile takeover by a privileged segment of the membership, backed by provincial officials. The hostile takeover was done to serve a bureaucratic, pro-employer agenda incompatible with the interests of the majority of rank and file substitute teachers. These matters are not pertinent to the NDP nomination process, nor are they pertinent to the public electoral process.
Secondly, the article on the blog to which you refer was written weeks before I sought the nomination in Thornhill, weeks before I submitted my answers to the NDP Questionnaire. I have been a journalist working for the radical press for decades, as you well know. It is quite normal for writers of every stripe to be critical of leaders and policies of all parties, including their own. The phrases in the piece that you cite are very mild in tone, are presented in a humorous vein, and I stress again, were formulated long before the election campaign, which begins officially on September 7. Contrary to what you claim, comments of that type do not, and never have constituted grounds for rescinding a nomination. The degree of conformity, indeed of thought control, that you seek to impose on party election candidates, and indeed that you seek to apply retroactively, is worrisome to say the least.
In my answers to the Candidate Questionnaire, I disclosed all my present and past political associations, and I identified the web sites where articles I have written over the years may be found. Presumably, you checked those sites before you approved my eligibility to seek a nomination. Nothing changed between the time you affirmed my eligibility on August 10, during our meeting in your office at Ontario provincial headquarters, and today.
Your decision to rescind my nomination, which I won in a fair and open election on September 1, at the best-ever-attended Thornhill NDP nomination meeting, is arbitrary, falsely based, and shows a degree of pettiness and political vindictiveness that is frankly astounding. Are only right wing New Democrats likely to be approved as party candidates?
I plan to meet with Thornhill NDP Executive members, with my fellow party activists in the NDP Socialist Caucus, and to consult with many others, to consider how we should respond to this political assault on party democracy.
I appeal to you to reconsider your decision. You may think that by acting as you have done you will keep this matter out of the public eye and avoid embarrassment to the party. The opposite will more likely be the case.
Finally, I ask that you call me at -------------- to discuss this issue directly in an honest, forthright and mature fashion.
Sincerely,
Barry
Mon, 2011-09-12 10:39
#25
He should sue even if he has little chance of winning. Are we sure the party hasn't been Blairized already?
Mon, 2011-09-12 11:17
#26
Is Mr. Weisleder planning on releasing the unedited version of the impersonal, bureaucratic and fallacious e-message anytime soon?
Mon, 2011-09-12 11:27
#27
Boom Boom
He should sue even if he has little chance of winning...
I think that's actually a good idea. I hope he's considering it.
Mon, 2011-09-12 12:55
#28
Northern Shoveler
I noticed the members of this riding twice rejected the sore loser in this story. His mommy loves him though.
Mon, 2011-09-12 13:17
#29
M. Spector
.
Mon, 2011-09-12 13:19
#30
M. Spector
Is Mr. Weisleder planning on releasing the unedited version of the impersonal, bureaucratic and fallacious e-message anytime soon?
Why don't you ask your friend Darlene to do that?
Mon, 2011-09-12 14:24
#31
If Mr. Weisleder wants the details of his 'firing' to be made public, he's at liberty to do so. If he wants to respond with a petulant public letter, that's his right too.
Mon, 2011-09-12 18:52
#32
It's good to know that everyone is against imperialism and oppression, illegal wars of aggression etc and ready to stick it out at the drop of a pin at election time in Ontario. Because any contradictions to that would be hypocritical.
Mon, 2011-09-12 20:40
#33
Wow!!! Thread drift!!! How incrediably irrelevant! Another attempt by Fidel to derail any criticism of the NDP or to push the 9-11 Truther agenda or both? And to think how many thought Fidel would stay away; not a chance! Too many agendas on the plate.
What if an NDP candidate was outspoken about calling for a new 9/11 investigation? How many of Barry's supporters would get behind the 9/11 truth/anti-war movement demanding a kind of glasnost in North America?
Mon, 2011-09-12 22:06
#34
Actually, last I checked the only person participating in thread drift is you, Fidel.
Mon, 2011-09-12 22:07
#35
Some of us feel the same way - that making Ontario elections all about a tiny country in the Middle East is irrelevant to core issues in Ontario. Lesley Hughes was on the right track though - she was a federal level candidate outspoken on what are federal issues of foreign policy.
Last Ontario election(provincial level) the two old line parties sidetracked democratic debate by volleying a third rail issue related to separate school funding. As far as some babblers are concerned poverty, joblessness, soaring provincial debt, Orwellian job creation numbers, the environment, and women's issues all take a back seat to what's going on in Israel. And many Ontarians are tired of the bullshit. This is typical of the reasons why 4,000,000 Ontarians didn't bother voting last election because they are held hostage by the bullshit. And bullshit at election time is the ultimate in democracy drift. We should have a new forum specifically for threads like this one where extreme discussion drift on federal issues at provincial election time is encouraged and sanctioned. We could call it the, Over Here!! Attack the NDP for Any Reason, It's Worst Past the Post Election Time Again Forum.
Mon, 2011-09-12 22:21
#36
Well I always get the feeling that these let's lynch the NDP at election time for whatever reason threads tend to want someone to provide an opposing point of view. That's what democratic debate is all about, isn't it?
And no complaints about Ontario's highest in the country PSE tuition fees I see? We thought not. That would be genstrike drift away from someone's favourite topic of discussion, the NDP and especially at wptp election time, too.
Mon, 2011-09-12 23:18
#37
Simon is not responsible for what his mother said, and nor can he be blamed for what happened here. I think there was many things at work in which we are not privy to. I also admire a person who worked with starting "free the children". It is a hugely successful program that empowers youth.
Tue, 2011-09-13 00:11
#38
Fidel, you complained about "discussion drift" when YOU were trying to derail the thread, like you do to anything which is remotely critical of The Party.
Tue, 2011-09-13 07:33
#39
Sorry, Jan, have to disagree with you. Strelchik might not have been responsible for what his mother said, but he admits in the article that he went whining to party officials when he lost. That's probably what Northern Shoveler was referring to.
Weisleder wrote an article rightly criticizing sexist party messaging and that's why he was dumped by the party. That is what he was told by the officials who contacted him, and that is the story. I'm sure you're right that there are many "back things at work" that we're not privy to - like that there are mucky-mucks and probably lots of people in the party who don't like him, and so they were looking for a good reason to get rid of him. You could see it in the previous thread on this issue - all sorts of NDP babblers saying quite openly that they hoped he would be canned simply because they don't like him.
There is nothing in that article I linked to that should be grounds for removing him as a candidate. He wrote it long before the election was called, and it's called internal debate within the party when someone disagrees with the direction the leader goes. Unless, of course, once someone becomes the party leader, they become Jesus Christ and the Pope combined, considered infallible and never to be questioned on anything they do by anyone in the party ever again. In which case, that's not democratic in the least, and the NDP should consider changing their name from "new" to "non".
Here are the facts:
Weisleder came to an agreement with the party that, as a candidate, he would stick with the party platform and not get into issues of disagreement with the party during the campaign.
Weisleder listed all the websites he has written for, including the one where that above article appeared, in his vetting papers. Since that article is prominent on the front page of that website (I found it in about 3 seconds using Google), there is no way that they could claim it was somehow hidden.
Weisleder has been a party member for decades and has always worked within the party to support the policies he and others on the left of the party believe in. This is something that NDP True Believers are constantly telling people on the left to do, especially those who are disillusioned and give up - rejoin the party and work for change! Don't just whine on the sidelines! God, how many times have I read that over the past decade on babble? Well, we can all see from this little debacle that this advice is useless.
This isn't the only riding where this happened - let's not forget North Etobicoke, where Diana Andrews was removed from her candidacy for reasons that the party even refused to disclose to the riding association, which has a right to know, despite Andrews telling party officials that she waives her right to confidentiality and that they could make their reasons public.
And finally: despite this undemocratic intervention, Weisleder is still telling people to support the new, undemocratically elected NDP candidate in Thornhill. He also has not sought out debate on this issue during the campaign, but plans to follow up AFTER the campaign with the party, although he tells the truth about it if asked. The ridiculous thing is, this NDP campaign wouldn't have gotten any attention at all in the media beyond the occasional footnote in the race between Farber and Shurman, and there was no hope ever of anyone winning it no matter who the candidate was. Weisleder is not to blame for media interest due to the ONDP's undemocratic actions. Your party brought all of that on yourselves.
--------------
I'll tell you one thing: Weisleder's a better person than I am. I'll be holding my nose and voting NDP this election, as I always do, but if I lived in Thornhill, I definitely wouldn't. I'd vote for the SPO candidate instead, as a protest vote. The NDP will never learn, as long as the people whose votes they take for granted keep voting for them no matter what stupid shit they pull.
Tue, 2011-09-13 10:00
#40
ikosmos
Weisleder has been a party member for decades and has always worked within the party to support the policies he and others on the left of the party believe in. This is something that NDP True Believers are constantly telling people on the left to do, especially those who are disillusioned and give up - rejoin the party and work for change! Don't just whine on the sidelines! God, how many times have I read that over the past decade on babble? Well, we can all see from this little debacle that this advice is useless.... The NDP will never learn, as long as the people whose votes they take for granted keep voting for them no matter what stupid shit they pull.
They've learned very well how to piss up a rope, push when pulling, exhale when inhaling, and fart when burping. These are the essential skills around saying one thing and doing another. In fairness to the NDP, these are skills common to many or all of the political parties in Parliament, IMHO.
The NDP's special social democratic role is one of disorganizing and deceiving the left and workers in general. Liberals and Conservatives can't do that with the more class conscious workers and such. It takes an organization that's more directly linked with the working class. So, they're always going to be a contradictory mixture of pro-capitalist and pro-socialist elements ... in which the pro-capitalist elements almost invariably prevail. We see it in everything from Stephen Lewis appropriating the anti-imperialist rhetoric of Arundhati Roy to heap praise on a faithful NDPer, to critical demobilizations in times of sharp class conflict as in Operation Solidarity/Solidarity Coalition in BC, to Rae-style betrayals by the ONDP government, to this administrative termination of a socialist candidate, to the promotion of the Afghan War or "mission" by the Manitoba NDP in order to assist their own electoral possibilities, in the awful pro-imperialist foreign policy over the last number of years, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I wish good luck to the socialist elements in the NDP as their success can help the whole left. And even the limited electoral success of the NDP, as in Quebec recently, CAN help the wider left. But there are plenty of us who say "No thanks" for reasons as I've outlined above. What Canada needs more are organized socialists and like-minded people in some organization (or organizations willing to work together) OUTSIDE the NDP. The reasons why this isn't happening are worth looking at, finding remedies, and moving forward.
My two bits.
Tue, 2011-09-13 23:02
#41
Thanks Michelle for your respectful reply and thoughts. I don't know how Simon was when he went to voice his concerns and what they were so I can't attach an opinion there. I wish that the party had let Barry run as it reflects badly on the NDP but more internally as a left of centre party in which it purports to be open to differences and debate. That is the party I push for, and I am a member.
Like you, I do know that many within the party get ticked at Barry and that there is a concern that Barry would go off message so to speak within a campaign. I do know that as someone who is working their butt off in a campaign I would have been super pissed if our campaign had gone off the rails because of message gone off base.
That said, I am very thankful that Barry did the standup thing and supported the new candidate and said he would deal with all this after the campaign. That really improved my perception of him. Thank you Barry. nite
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!Sorry, Jan, have to disagree with you. Strelchik might not have been responsible for what his mother said, but he admits in the article that he went whining to party officials when he lost. That's probably what Northern Shoveler was referring to.
Weisleder wrote an article rightly criticizing sexist party messaging and that's why he was dumped by the party. That is what he was told by the officials who contacted him, and that is the story. I'm sure you're right that there are many "back things at work" that we're not privy to - like that there are mucky-mucks and probably lots of people in the party who don't like him, and so they were looking for a good reason to get rid of him. You could see it in the previous thread on this issue - all sorts of NDP babblers saying quite openly that they hoped he would be canned simply because they don't like him.
There is nothing in that article I linked to that should be grounds for removing him as a candidate. He wrote it long before the election was called, and it's called internal debate within the party when someone disagrees with the direction the leader goes. Unless, of course, once someone becomes the party leader, they become Jesus Christ and the Pope combined, considered infallible and never to be questioned on anything they do by anyone in the party ever again. In which case, that's not democratic in the least, and the NDP should consider changing their name from "new" to "non".
Here are the facts:
Weisleder came to an agreement with the party that, as a candidate, he would stick with the party platform and not get into issues of disagreement with the party during the campaign.
Weisleder listed all the websites he has written for, including the one where that above article appeared, in his vetting papers. Since that article is prominent on the front page of that website (I found it in about 3 seconds using Google), there is no way that they could claim it was somehow hidden.
Weisleder has been a party member for decades and has always worked within the party to support the policies he and others on the left of the party believe in. This is something that NDP True Believers are constantly telling people on the left to do, especially those who are disillusioned and give up - rejoin the party and work for change! Don't just whine on the sidelines! God, how many times have I read that over the past decade on babble? Well, we can all see from this little debacle that this advice is useless.
This isn't the only riding where this happened - let's not forget North Etobicoke, where Diana Andrews was removed from her candidacy for reasons that the party even refused to disclose to the riding association, which has a right to know, despite Andrews telling party officials that she waives her right to confidentiality and that they could make their reasons public.
And finally: despite this undemocratic intervention, Weisleder is still telling people to support the new, undemocratically elected NDP candidate in Thornhill. He also has not sought out debate on this issue during the campaign, but plans to follow up AFTER the campaign with the party, although he tells the truth about it if asked. The ridiculous thing is, this NDP campaign wouldn't have gotten any attention at all in the media beyond the occasional footnote in the race between Farber and Shurman, and there was no hope ever of anyone winning it no matter who the candidate was. Weisleder is not to blame for media interest due to the ONDP's undemocratic actions. Your party brought all of that on yourselves.
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I'll tell you one thing: Weisleder's a better person than I am. I'll be holding my nose and voting NDP this election, as I always do, but if I lived in Thornhill, I definitely wouldn't. I'd vote for the SPO candidate instead, as a protest vote. The NDP will never learn, as long as the people whose votes they take for granted keep voting for them no matter what stupid shit they pull.
Wed, 2011-09-14 04:53
#42
M. Spector
Wow, you sure changed your tune from post #11 above!
Wed, 2011-09-14 05:35
#43
So, how does anyone feel about the Liberal Party of Canada dumping candidate Lesley Hughes similarly in the lead up to a federal election? Anyone? Anyone at all? [size=4]Yew! Yes, yew behind the bikes shed! Stand stull laddy![/size]
Wed, 2011-09-14 06:57
#44
radiorahim
Fidel, go find another thread to try to derail.
Wed, 2011-09-14 08:59
#45
There is a good reason why despite everything that's happened Weisleder wil NEVER EVER leave the NDP. Being inside the NDP is the oxygen he needs to get attention. As long as Weisleder stays in the NDP he can draw attention himself and stir up trouble. At the NDP federal convention he had it made. He pontificated to any unsuspecting journalist who would listen, that he was a VERY important person! The leader of the fancy-sounding "Socialist caucus" that he would claim was some sort of super-important faction comparable to the Paul Martin faction of the Liberal party when Chretien was leader! Then he gets interviewed on CBC and by Globe and mail reporters and it feeds into his delusions of grandeur. Not bad for someone who essentially speaks for a clique of about 20 people who are about one tenth of one percent of all NDP members in Canada!
If Weisleder actually was principled and quit the NDP and joined theSPO or the Communists - all that would end in a flash. No one cares what he has to say if he's a member of some kooky fringe party, so he won't go there. In fact he walks on egg shells to keep saying he supports the NDP candidate because if he didn't he would give the party an excuse to revoke his membership (something he knows they would be only too happy to do).
Wed, 2011-09-14 09:32
#46
knownothing
There is a good reason why despite everything that's happened Weisleder wil NEVER EVER leave the NDP. Being inside the NDP is the oxygen he needs to get attention. As long as Weisleder stays in the NDP he can draw attention himself and stir up trouble. At the NDP federal convention he had it made. He pontificated to any unsuspecting journalist who would listen, that he was a VERY important person! The leader of the fancy-sounding "Socialist caucus" that he would claim was some sort of super-important faction comparable to the Paul Martin faction of the Liberal party when Chretien was leader! Then he gets interviewed on CBC and by Globe and mail reporters and it feeds into his delusions of grandeur. Not bad for someone who essentially speaks for a clique of about 20 people who are about one tenth of one percent of all NDP members in Canada! If Weisleder actually was principled and quit the NDP and joined theSPO or the Communists - all that would end in a flash. No one cares what he has to say if he's a member of some kooky fringe party, so he won't go there. In fact he walks on egg shells to keep saying he supports the NDP candidate because if he didn't he would give the party an excuse to revoke his membership (something he knows they would be only too happy to do).
Wow, that's a fairly unflattering description I would say.
Wed, 2011-09-14 10:50
#47
M. Spector
I wouldn't call it unflattering. I would call it a vicious and spiteful ad hominem attack by someone who has a personal grudge.
It's also a brilliant encapsulation of the mindset that drives the NDP to keep pulling crap like this.
Wed, 2011-09-14 11:39
#48
Northern Shoveler
I wouldn't call it unflattering. I would call it a vicious and spiteful ad hominem attack by someone who has a personal grudge.
It's also a brilliant encapsulation of the mindset that drives the NDP to keep pulling crap like this.
I agree totally. A classic Stockholm.
It seems to me, from afar, that anyone to the left of Ford is welcome in the ONDP but not anyone who expounds actual socialist beliefs. It is trying to be a big moderate tent that has no room for a socialist left wing. Doesn't Ontario still have a Liberal party?
Wed, 2011-09-14 13:42
#49
Fidel, go find another thread to try to derail.
Ya I thought it was a bit off topic myself. Besides, what does ditching a Liberal Party candidate for her outspoken political views have to do with the ONDP and Barry's situation, anyway? Total seque off into the wild blue-red yonder. I shall interrupteth the inquisition no more. Carry on with your inquiries.
Wed, 2011-09-14 18:30
#50
It seems to me, from afar, that anyone to the left of Ford is welcome in the ONDP but not anyone who expounds actual socialist beliefs. It is trying to be a big moderate tent that has no room for a socialist left wing. Doesn't Ontario still have a Liberal party?
I have attended many NDP meetings over the years. At first, Barry was taken as a voice for a group with the ONDP. For at least the last five years, people who tell me they are on the left of the NDP have groaned as Barry approached a microphone and told me afterward that he had just done more harm to the cause he claims to promote than benefit the cause. From having seen him in action myself (if only Barry could be seen from afar by me) and from the reaction of colleagues who otherwise all agree that the ONDP should move further to the left, Barry's words do not match his actions in terms of have the effect of promoting the left within the NDP. That is only my opinion, and I am sure that others have different opinions. But I do know that I am not the only person with this opinion.
Wed, 2011-09-14 18:46
#51
Yes, that is a well-worn anecdote on babble. What does that have to do with the fact that he was the democratically-elected candidate in Thornhill? If he's that hated, then how is it that no one could find a contender for the nomination who could beat him?