And you thought Bush was bad?!? part 2

Perry is not only a presidential candidate, but also a cowboy-booted sociological experiment. It is almost as if Perry's political persona was constructed by bundling together all the fears and phantoms in the left-wing anxiety closet. Since the hysteria of the 1950s Red Scare, no Republican figure has matched Perry in his God-given ability to give liberals the heebie-jeebies. Others can rival the governor's disdain for academic achievement (Palin), his cross-on-the-sleeve religiosity (Michele Bachmann and Mike Huckabee), and his antipathy to Social Security and Medicare (Paul Ryan and Barry Goldwater). But never before has a top-tier presidential candidate embodied the whole lethal package-and more:

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/94113/rick-perry-republican-nomination-liberal-nightmare

I don't know.  Reagan did a good job touching all these bases.

He is a real player so it would take more than that paltry sum.  Of note he didn't say he couldn't be bought.

Ron Paul and the teabagger crowd on social responsibility:

"A healthy 30-year-old young man has a good job, makes a good living, but decides, you know what? I'm not going to spend $200 or $300 a month for health insurance because I'm healthy, I don't need it. But something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who's going to pay if he goes into a coma, for example? Who pays for that?," Blitzer asked.

Paul: Well, in a society that you accept welfarism and socialism, he expects the government to take care of him.

Blitzer: Well, what do you want?

Paul: But what he should do is whatever he wants to do, and assume responsibility for himself. My advice to him would have a major medical policy, but not be forced --

Blitzer: But he doesn't have that. He doesn't have it, and he needs intensive care for six months. Who pays?

Paul: That's what freedom is all about, taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to prepare and take care of everybody --

Blitzer: But Congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?

At that point some in the crowd voiced a resounding "yes" in response to the question. Paul went on to say, "...we've given up on this whole concept that we might take care of ourselves and assume responsibility for ourselves. Our neighbors, our friends, our churches would do it. This whole idea, that's the reason the cost is so high."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20105168-503544.html

josh wrote:

Ron Paul and the teabagger crowd on social responsibility:

"A healthy 30-year-old young man has a good job, makes a good living, but decides, you know what? I'm not going to spend $200 or $300 a month for health insurance because I'm healthy, I don't need it. But something terrible happens, all of a sudden he needs it. Who's going to pay if he goes into a coma, for example? Who pays for that?," Blitzer asked.

Paul: Well, in a society that you accept welfarism and socialism, he expects the government to take care of him.

Blitzer: Well, what do you want?

Paul: But what he should do is whatever he wants to do, and assume responsibility for himself. My advice to him would have a major medical policy, but not be forced --

Blitzer: But he doesn't have that. He doesn't have it, and he needs intensive care for six months. Who pays?

Paul: That's what freedom is all about, taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to prepare and take care of everybody --

Blitzer: But Congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?

At that point some in the crowd voiced a resounding "yes" in response to the question. Paul went on to say, "...we've given up on this whole concept that we might take care of ourselves and assume responsibility for ourselves. Our neighbors, our friends, our churches would do it. This whole idea, that's the reason the cost is so high."

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20105168-503544.html

You are all severely missing the point!

A good democracy is not about finding the 1 economic and social system that is the solution to all the world's problems. Either you support socialism (total nationalisation of the economy) free-market (no public goods except maybe courts and defense) or Liberalism/Social Democracy (a mix of public and private).

The problem with the US and Canadian democracies is that these choices do not exist. The people should be able to elect a free market system if they want and they should be allowed to elect a socialist system if they want. But right now both our countries have a hegemonic Liberal/Social Democratic state that blurs all definitions of ideology for an unprincipled case by case ideology. Ron Paul tells you what he believes in and if you don't like it don't vote for him. All the rest are liars and opportunists and this INCLUDES THE NDP! If the NDP don't stand up for socialism than they are just Liberals, no difference. 

You should all be pointing out how courageous Ron Paul has been standing up to the US military industrial complex.

To sum up, a good democracy can be defined by how much choice the electorate have. In our country we have the Conservatives saying they support public health care and the NDP saying they support taking the tax off gas and lowering small business taxes. Everyone is crowding the center and that is the problem with our world!

Back to Paul's point about letting the man die: You have to follow your principle through to the end and that is what he is courageously doing even though no one agrees with him. It is not because he doesn't care about people he just thinks that if you open the door to government intervention you open the door to tyranny. At least he is consistent!

josh wrote:

So what?  He's wrong.

Better inconsistent and right than consistent and wrong.

How do you know he is wrong?

josh wrote:

Because he's a Randian. Of course if you're a Randian, you'd think he was right.

I never said he was right. I just don't have the arrogance to say he is wrong.

josh wrote:

Well, if it's arrogance to believe letting "parasites" die because they can't afford adequate medical care, then I'm arrogant.

You are totally misrepresenting his position. He says the state has no place in helping him. There are other avenues like private charity and churches. Sure I don't think that would necessarily work but maybe it would. How do you know?

Because it was tried.  That's what led to the rise of the social welfare state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIL8cHPIArM

I support universal health care but I think in a democracy you should have choice between private and public systems instead of a shitty mix of the two which is what we have

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O1iOAwjohA

Ron Paul discussed on Democracy Now

The guy's response at 6:35 is the best part

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=171vElUl4u4

howeird beale wrote:

you are mistaken.

again.

you're ignorant of how health care operates, and about its history.

you're ignorant of how our democracy operates, and about its history.

 

read

some

books

I like how you say I am mistaken but don't specifically address my statement

Here is a medicare specialist talking about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgWjW1PoHf0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ljfnysgF0&feature=related

I said I support universal health care I just think we should have MORE public ownership instead of private hospitals, clinics, doctors and prescriptions because they just screw the taxpayers by profiting off of us

Ron Paul is a far right libertarian nut job. There are hundreds of reasons not to vote for him.

People, often apparently, confuses Paul's stance on war (he's pro war, but not pro paying for it) as left leaning. There is nothing left leaning about Ron Paul and people who buy into the Koolaid seriously need to reconsider their so-called "lefty" cred.

"Authorized and paid for by Ron Paul 2012 PCC. www.RonPaul2012.com

SOURCE: Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign Committee"

Ron Paul - racist hack with support from StormFront:

http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/a-quick-investigation-into-ron-p...

Ron Paul on welfare, social security and Medicade - lets abolish it all!

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/04/ron-paul-end-medicare-social-s...

Ron Paul (pretend Libertarian - against a woman's right to chose) - women aren't people anyways:

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/25/304530/ron-paul-on-abortion...

And here is a quote from a "true" libertarian on Ron Paul:

[Ron Paul is] an inflexible ideologue who subscribes to a variety of extremist views which would make a terrible basis for national policy. His interpretation of the Constitution is highly selective. He seems not to recognize terms like "public welfare" and "common good" and rejects the long history of constitutional scholarship and jurisprudence on which most law is based. His understanding of the economy is based on fringe economic theories which most serious economists do not consider credible. As for foreign policy, it's an area in which Paul has no experience at all and his foreign policy would basically amount to isolationism which would have disastrous economic and political repercussions.

[Ron Paul supporters] completely overlook Paul's support for the reactionary conspiracy nuts at the John Birch Society and the reprehensible 9/11 Truth movement or the fact that he raises money on white supremacist websites and has the endorsement of racist leaders like former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke, White Aryan leader Tom Metzger and Stormfront Fuhrer Don Black.

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/a-quick-investigation-into-ron-pauls/page-2/#ixzz1Y2iApOEQ

Republican Party's base: A gallery of ghouls

Quote:

In a recent debate on MSNBC, as it was being pointed out that Rick Perry rivals Kublai Khan in his propensity for stopping people's ability to breathe, Perry was roundly cheered by the crowd for his record-breaking string of executions in Texas. Debate attendees yelped like it was a home run in the World Series or a successful moon mission, a sickening display whether one supports the death penalty or not (which I do in limited circumstances).

Much like wolves hovering over a slab of meat or performance art directed by the Marquis de Sade, the activist Tea Party Republican base seemed to delight in the suffering of others. They were Teddy Roosevelt ... if he were buried in a pet cemetery for the past 90 years.

But even that was nothing like what happened during the Tea Party/CNN debate the evening of September 12, when the topic of discussion was who would pay to keep a 30-year-old alive who lacked health insurance and had been in a terrible motorcycle accident. As Congressman Ron Paul was busy equating the death of this hypothetical easy rider with the "freedom" enjoyed by Americans, the crowd began to lustily cheer and yell "yeah" to the question of whether this accident victim should be allowed to die.

Think about that for a second. Weren't these the guys and gals who blew a gasket over the prospect of allowing the severely brain-damaged Terry Schiavo to rest in peace a few years back, and attacked her husband as some sort of ghoul for wanting his wife to die with dignity? Yet, somehow these days, bringing a little more Torquemada to their decision-making regarding who lives and who dies, seems to hae become the new-new-conservatism.

It is a conservatism of ... how shall we put it ... death panels!

Yep you are right I am trying to get the left to back Ron Paul.

I think it is more imporant to bring all the troops home rather than argue about whether socialism or capitalism or the third way is the right economic system(which will be an argument that will continue long after we are all dead)

I am a socialist

I believe capitalism is exploitive, immoral and stagnating

However, socialism is not perfect either and if you want to have a discussion about the problems of socialism we can do that

I think if you really take the time to look into the specific points you are all making you will see there is more to it

If you think obama is going to be better you are mistaken

howeird beale wrote:

"I am a socialist"

ok.

why?

define the term, and why it applies to you and your beliefs.

 

I believe in public ownership of essential sectors (water, power, natural gas, health care, telecommunications, banks, oil. I believe in high taxation of the rich and of corporations (some people say they will leave if we tax them too high I say good riddance)

I am a lifelong NDPer, My Dad ran for the party several times in the 80's and I think the Tommy Douglas govt here in Sask is a model for all govts to follow

My support for Ron Paul is based on a relative perspective of today's choices. I don't see the Democrats as progressive in a any way. They are bought just like the GOP. Sure I like what Kucinich says but he doesn't have any shot of controlling the party like Ron Paul has over the GOP. Sure his free market views are completely opposite to my views of public ownership but as I said before, if you don't have a dmeocracy what is the point in arguing about ideology.

The US has no democracy! Either did Canada until the last election when Jack changed everything!

Caissa wrote:

Those wacky Republicans .

CBC wrote:

Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson told his 700 Club viewers that divorcing a spouse with Alzheimer's is justifiable because the disease is "a kind of death."

During the portion of the show where the one-time Republican presidential candidate takes questions from viewers, Robertson was asked what advice a man should give to a friend who began seeing another woman after his wife started suffering from the incurable neurological disorder.

"I know it sounds cruel, but if he's going to do something, he should divorce her and start all over again, but make sure she has custodial care and somebody looking after her," Robertson said.

The chairman of the Christian Broadcasting Network, which airs the 700 Club, said he wouldn't "put a guilt trip" on anyone who divorces a spouse who suffers from the illness, but added, "Get some ethicist besides me to give you the answer."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/09/16/robertson-alzheimers-divor...

Theo-cons are dangerous and their time is done

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2QsP3Q-Vg

Am I talking to Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lu8i5uhngc

No one is drinking the Ron Paul Koolaid and it baffles me that someone claiming to be on the left would support the guy, but go for it. When you finally get what you want and all social safety nets are abolished, along with all workers rights, work place regulations and all rules and laws that stop discrimination are gone, where do you think that leaves society? In particular the working class and the poor? Yeah - no where but worse off.

Ron Paul is a fake libertarian multimillionaire quack

You know, I really don't like you much. You refuse to see truths. You refuse to admit them when they are in yoiur face and then, you do the ultimate in straw man bullshit by attempting to paint me as a toady for imperialism.

You are all class.

The one who needs to "wake up" is you.