Swears.

I let my kids swear.  I've spent some time, though, making sure they understand that swearing offends some people (like grandma) and that there are times and places that cussing should not be used (like in front of grandma).  We haven't had any issues, although there was a period of delight that did have to be damped down a bit.  I also don't have to worry about what comes out of my mouth, because I swear a lot.  It's been freeing.

Compare and contrast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCK123Y7K90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJSRP7cZVo

Fuckin' Bloody Fuck, mate.

Interesting how English swear words are about sex and French swear words are about the Church.   Do we English people have hostility around sex?  Maybe we're a little uptight and could benefit from non-violent love making.  What if the next time you hit your thumb with the hammer, try saying, "OH CHURCH! That hurts!"

Of course I remember the day I was roofing and hit my thumb for the third time.  I screamed foul language at the top of my lungs, and my French friend told me I had combined the strongest features of both languages quite poetically.  The funny part is that it was a a place in the Eastern Townships called Mount Echo.   I still smile at the memory.

We could all lighten up a bit and stop worrying about word phobias.

Finally, my favourite word gets the thread it deserves.

My mom inadvertently taught me the best swear words, and swear word combinations, I've ever heard. I still use most of them, when appropriate.

For any fans of Jaroslav Hasek out there, apparently the humour of the prose in "The Good Soldier Svejk" suffered a lot in the translation from Czech to English, as the multitude of crude statements about bodily functions had to be reduced to the two or three "big swear words" in English. 

We really do have an impoverished culture in that respect! :/

Rebecca:  No shit?

I used to swear a lot when I worked in the bush.  None of the ravens, crows, moose or Pine Martens were impressed much. I've had beers with diamond drillers' on Saturday nights. The things that come out of their mouths after a few cases of beer on a Saturday night watching the hockey game would embarrass a sailor. 

I don't put either shit or salt on my potatoes.  

Hey Fockers! Cool thread to say wassup. What's crackin these days? Oh, looks like a gaggle flew in. We must do our best to have "Love, hope and optimism." Did Jack even write that?

Love is better than anger. - Absolutely. Calling a spade a spade is not anger, just logical.

Hope is better than fear. - Who's scurred? I'm more hopeful than ever. That doesn't include rolling over to those that would tarnish Jack's legacy.

Optimism is better than despair. - As Maysie eloquently put it. Absofuckinlutely.

Sorry for thread drifting. Michelle wrote a great post last night about Jack and his illness. Also, seeing many of my allies in this thread I haven't seen in many others, inspired me to try and write something.

I'm pretty sure Jack would have wanted me to fucking keep on keepin on.

I'm trying to ignore all the trolls.

Love you all. We must teach these folks and not run them off. Make them our friends.

[s]Hoping[/s], no, Believing we are not fearful. Quebecois showed me that.

Optimistic that the democratic membership of the NDP will make the right choice. There is no sliver of room for despair in me. (I lie, Jack's success in the election, changed a lot for me in my thinking.)

And for those that feel the NDP is going too far centre, fear not. Everything starts somewhere. My 12 yr old niece's Mom had a very small NDP sign put on her lawn the other day.(unlikely riding) The next day, her neighbours had a huge PC sign put up. My niece came out the next day on her way to school and decided to take the sign up a big mound of soil they had brought in recently for the backyard to display it prominently. Rolling up her sleeves and getting dirty. It was all love, hope and optimism. She has no anger, fear or despair.

The kids are alright.

Optimistic

Hey, Catchfire, check out the table included in this wiki entry (click on the table itself to expand it on your screen so you can see the date details).  Assuming it's accurate, the printed use of the word "fuck" was used much more commonly between about 1675 and 1800 than it is today.  Between about 1825 and 1950, it hardly appeared at all in print, with its use really starting to revive just after 1950.

I enjoy the word.  But, it's overuse has started to turn it into white noise.  It's not the least bit shocking to hear it.  In some sense, it's worse than white noise: Repeated use makes a person sound unimaginative...and perhaps a bit dense.  Overusing "fuck" is about as annoying as Valley Girls of the 1980s using "like" repeatedly.

Right Sven. And Valley Girls was just such a true stereotype too, wasn't it. DOH! C'mon dude, don't make it so easy. People using tropes of Valley Girls is much more dense to me if we must engage in disparaging others.

Do you get out much and socialize?

Hehe! Nice dodge Sven.  

This thread is getting confuckinfusin

Yeah, I have to wade in here and say, regardless of the various associations or sticky attachments the term has picked up in the course of its venerable history, the language and the culture would be the poorer for the passing of 'bitch' derogatory.

For every incorrect use, there is the inspired door-opening of a new permutation and application. Earlier today listening to BBC Radio Four's 'Ed Reardon's Week' I heard a fabulous use, some sentence involving the term 'bitch-goddess' which identified with irreplaceable specificity a particular constellation of associations that was a comedic TREAT.

Just now on my facebook page a local friend has posted this. It's not to my taste but I defend her right to say such nonsense!

'I'M A BITCH!...Unfortunately most women won't repost this. I'm a handful, I'm strong willed, independent, outspoken and I tell it like it is. I make mistakes, I am sometimes out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. If you're a bitch repost this...I dare you. I'll be looking for the ladies who repost.
Remember...BITCH means Babe In Total Control of Herself!!'

Hasn't 'nigga' been repossessed?

'Blatch' will never, as a vehicle, deliver the same aural EFFECT, sharp, punctuated even percussive as 'bitch'.

That is why 'bitch', along with cock, cunt, prick, damn, shit, fart, piss, fuck, has survived so long in the language. Its original fixed meaning along with its negation - and all the space between have long since established separate identities within the language commons and it continues to operate creatively, in the language, as a living word. It is not a pleasant word perhaps, but I'm not sure that matters. The host of associations it is presumed to conjure are not pleasant - but neither are they fixed.

Rebecca West... got many gay friends?

Rebecca West wrote:

I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down.  None come to mind.

Let me help you. "Life's a bitch" is a common expression  used to characterize existence as difficult even at the best of times. It's used all the time by men and women alike. Sometimes " ... and then you die" is added for effect.

Maybe we should toss this one over to the transgressive art class 101 and see what they think. 

I know there are certain words I avoid using. As for some people not having the right to use certain words, there might be a moral argument there, but in terms of practical application it's meaningless. 

Most people are not going to pay attention to being told they are not allowed to do something, especially not those who use it in the worst way.

And on the other hand, I am sure there are some who think no one - including women - should use it. I have heard exactly that opinion about other highly-offensive words which are in common usage. So from the start there is no absolute position.

Use of the word may tell us something about the attitudes of the person using it, but clearly it doesn't always mean the same thing when it comes out of different peoples' mouths.  

Before I start educating people about the meaning of words I also need to educate myself what that word means to them - particularly when it is used in a context or culture I am not entirely familiar with. And that is true whether I have a case or not.

(that last sentence may sound highly facetious, but I assure you I don't mean it that way)

Rebecca West wrote:

Several -- why?

'Cause I am wondering how you reconcile making essentially blanket statements like:

Rebecca West wrote:

I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down.  None come to mind. [...]

and

Rebecca West wrote:

One thing I can say is that men have forfeited their use of the word on the basis of their long-standing misogynist use of the word. 

although I do very much appreciate the qualification of that in the remainder of the paragraph [emphasis added]

Rebecca West wrote:

Women - whether we reclaim it or rebuke it - are pretty much the only people who should be involved in deciding for themselves what the word means to them.

I definitely don't want to overstate the case, but there are times in gay male discourse where it is not used a pejorative, but rather as a term of approbation. Perhaps [s]NSFW[/s] NSFB[abble], and I wouldn't toss it into the mix casually -- but nor would I endorse the blanket condemnation of the word.

____________________

Catchfire wrote:

bagkitty, are you suggesting that "gay friends" who use the word bitch are using it without misogynist connotations? It's difficult to tell what you are insinuating.

What I am insinuating is that its misognynist connotations are not dominant in all instances. Too many, but not all.

My only regret is not being able to find that clip of Tony Randall demonstrating how complete gibberish works just fine as ersatz profanity. Can't remember which talk show it was on, but if my childhood memory serves me, it was amazing. 

The internet is great, but it is not the sum of all knowledge.

Plus, think I paid my dues with that Sopranos clip, for fuck sakes.

It's common Big Bang Theory as well, along with the blatch word.

My favourite book this year: Go The FUCK To Sleep

Favourite page from the book:

The owls fly forth from the treetops.

Through the air, they soar and they sweep.

A hot crimson rage fills my heart, love.

For real, shut the fuck up and sleep.