Notre Dame -- 'No' to China-Outsourced Goods

They are trying to create a new evol empire with respect to China. The darned fools should realize though that it's US industrialists who prefer to do business in China. And it's all down to "low wages" according to neoliberal ideologues. That's not the whole story, and captains of industry in America, or the small group of corporations still manufacturing things, prefer to merely claim low wages as the single reason behind their outsourcing to China. And it's half-truth propaganda designed mainly to apply downward pressure on wages at home in the USA in general.

The CPC have refused to commit economic suicide in similar fashion to the way the US convinced Japan to do so from 1985 to 1987. And so now they have to make another bogeyman/scapegoat for Americans to bash in sidestepping the issue of shrinking US capitalism and economy in decline at home. China bashing is all the rage in the U.S. today as a result. Meanwhile US companies, like Nike and Walmart and Apple continue trading with "the enemy" and making money hand over fist as per usual. Don't they know that what's good for corporations is good for America, too?

The only reason eyesonly applauds this is because he's obsessed with demonizing China and the Chinese.  He showed this with his remarks about a blog entry on homelessness where he bashed "foreign real estate speculation".

China produces all sorts of goods, some lousy and some outstanding. You get what you pay for. Anything more than that is mostly just racism, pure and simple. It's got sfa to do with anything else.

So it is all right to call the CPC fascist but not America?  Sloppy use of rhetoric is not a crime just a joke.

I love the fact that Notre dame is concerned that the CPC does not allow labour unions. This at a time when Governors in a least a dozen states are stripping workers of their right to organize.  Pot meet kettle.

The Chinese government allows state approved unions.  In Canada we allow only state approved unions.  The Chinese workers still form their own unions and get less repressive responses than the workers in Canada and the US did during the sit down strikes of the 1930's.  The Chinese people look like they are quite capable of managing their own affairs and frankly I don't see a fucking thing that america has to offer them.  Hell with the corporate money flowing in american elections it no longer even has the facade of a democratic system.  Lets see Chinese CPC capitalists or the Koch brothers. How does one begin to rate who is more evil.

So they buy their schoolwear from people getting paid pennies in Bangladesh or Haiti rather than people who get paid pennies in China. Big deal.

Sky Captain wrote:

I call the CPC as it is-an opportunist tolitarian party that may have had good intentions once, but was betrayed, deformed and wrecked by one evil man-Mao Zedong.  What he did during the years of his rule was not socialism, but tolitarianism, pure and simple. I call it fascism because of the personality cult and the sayings of his Little Red Book that every Chinese citizen was (most likely) forced to memorize from morning until night and the actions of his Red Guards-this is as close as socialism has gotten to having a fascist state, and you just shrug it off by making excuses about how 'America is fascist, too'-as if that makes what China is doing in Tibet and to its own people okay.

This is very old news didn't you hear he died.  Fascist is a specific term thx for proving you haven't a clue what it actually means.

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Also, I believe in the stories of people who were there when Mao was in power when his meglomaniacal bloodbath was being carried out, not a bunch of deluded people on various and sundry websites who think he was a great man of history (the author of Mao: The Untold Story relates how she couldn't even say that she was Chinese for a couple of years in England because  evey time somebody would meet her and ask where she was from, they would say, "I'm sorry to hear about the death of Chairman Mao' the equivilant of a Jewish girl that had survived the Final Solution hearing praise for the death of Hitler. That was what she went through, thanks to people like you.)

Still not a thing to say about China in the 21st century.  If you look above I said nothing about Mao.  Anything to offer from the last couple of decades.

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You can cover it up all you want with nasty putdowns of America and by commparing Obama to Hitler (like most white people, you just want him to fail while saying that you're not racist-yeah, right) but it isn't going to work for me; I know what wrong and right is, and that (as Malcolm X once said) 'Wrong is wrong no matter who says it or does it!" I'm not going to let China off of the hook, even if like Snert and many others, I'm the resident contrarian (as it says in my describer thingy, 'Sky Captain is going to think for himself!')

This is a personal attack that I demand you retract. You show me where I have said Obama is like Hitler.  And then you have the audacity to call me a racist because I don't buy into american exceptionalism.  

Sky Captain wrote:

Also, I believe in the stories of people who were there when Mao was in power when his meglomaniacal bloodbath was being carried out, not a bunch of deluded people on various and sundry websites who think he was a great man of history (the author of Mao: The Untold Story relates how she couldn't even say that she was Chinese for a couple of years in England because  evey time somebody would meet her and ask where she was from, they would say, "I'm sorry to hear about the death of Chairman Mao' the equivilant of a Jewish girl that had survived the Final Solution hearing praise for the death of Hitler. That was what she went through, thanks to people like you.)

You can cover it up all you want with nasty putdowns of America and by commparing Obama to Hitler (like most white people, you just want him to fail while saying that you're not racist-yeah, right) but it isn't going to work for me; I know what wrong and right is, and that (as Malcolm X once said) 'Wrong is wrong no matter who says it or does it!" I'm not going to let China off of the hook, even if like Snert and many others, I'm the resident contrarian (as it says in my describer thingy, 'Sky Captain is going to think for himself!')

Wow ... where to begin.  Considering yourself the "resident contrarian" doesn't allow you to make insulting assumptions about individuals on babble or to personally attack them.  Suggesting that a babbler is racist based on that set of assumptions constitutes a personal attack.  As per babble policy, I'm warning you once again, stick to attacking the argument, not the individual.

Excuse me sir/madame, but I am not 'a con-bot' or any other insult you like to throw around when somebody offers an opinion you don't like (or can't refute, in this case.) If you can't face the fact that Mao was as I (and many sober and sensible historians) have said he was, then that's your problem, not mine. Your brownnosing of the CPC may work here, but it won't work elsewhere on the net (especially with people commited to opposing Chinese imperilalism in Tibet), and you're going to have to deal with that fact when you make the arguments that you do.

For the record: I'm a moderate left-winger, not a 'con-bot', and if you want proof, I'll show you comments I've made elsewhere denouncing the Ford and Harper agenda-all of which have got me lablled as being a name-caller'. But I won't put up with being called a 'con-bot' or an 'Asian xenophobe' simply because my opinions aren't 100% percent as extremist or as supportive of the CPC's policies and history as everybody else's here. And if I'm insulted, I'll respond back in kind, childishly or not.

You're the one slurring me and any other babbler that isn't as commited as you, buddy, not I. And the links in question are just your way of mindlessly blasting the USA for it's wrongdoing and imperialism while defending China and the CPC despite it's wrongdoing, mistakes and imperialism in Tibet and Darfur.

As for the 'new world', we may be living in it, but if name-calling,insults, and defending left-wing tyranny is what babblers consider debate or progressive policies, then they've already lost allies, and are losing generally.

I am engaging-I'm just not tolerating bullshit extremism anymore, from the left or right.

RevolutionPlease wrote:

No, all you do is slam the Chinese. Nothing else. And shit all over babble.

Hey, what do you do that's different? You (and everybody else here) slam the Americans and America, all of the time. And you shit all over Obama because (as I said before) it seems that you don't want a black man to succeed. If you truly knew how hard it was to reverse what the GOP's mess, you'd cut him some slack but all you want to do is blast him and name call him all of the time. It's not really getting progessives anyplace anywhere except here at Rabble & Babble. And what that is, is just an echo chamber.

The state of Canada is a very close partner of post-communist China now Fidel.  It's in both their interests however to pretend that isn't quite so.   It's not in mine. 

Chinese workers  are slaving away like dogs and for peanuts, too. We know. I think lapdog newz media propaganda is about half right. They are working and a heckuva lot over there in China. Labour rights are probably minimal just as they say. And China now has a middle class the size of the population of North America and growing. They build a new city the size of San Francisco about every three weeks or so. It's incredible. China's economy is bustling.

'Their bellies may be full, but their minds and their selves are shackled'-a paraphrase of a line said by Captain Jean-Luc Picard to Cardassian Gul Madred in the episode 'Chain of Command' on [i]Star Trek: The Next Generation[/i].

Sky Captain wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:

Obama had some choices when he was first elected but he instead decided to give his supposed opponents all the rope they needed to hang him.  That being said, the defence of laissez fare Chinese capitalism here borders on the neurotic.   News flash guys, the biggest allies that American corprations have in destroying whats left of organized labour in North America is the Sino-American axis of so-called 'free' trade.  Nixon must be laughing from the grave.  Until the left recognises that obvious fact and starts to address it rationally then the frustration among the working class will continue to be exploited by tea bag racists and frauds.  And we'll all end up the losers.

Obama had hard decisions to make that dealt with the reality that a commander-in-chief has to deal with, not the fantasy that a candadaite has to deal with. That's something that neither you or the rest of the left-wing could (or can) deal with, so because he wasn't enough of the 'Magic Negro' for you, you all decided to turn on him.

It seems that a reminder of what good Obama did do is still needed: [url=http://www.bestoftheblogs.com/Home/22497]What The "Do Nothing" Obama Has Accomplished That We Choose To Ignore Or Fail To Acknowledge[/url] (and I'll keep repeating this until people get the message.)

Bullcrap on that too.  His 'accomplishments' are piss in an ocean of blood, sweat and tears.  If he refused to bailout the banks, no string attached, and pulled out of the ME like he promised he would have had a huge majority supporting him.  He decided like Clinton before him to listen to the lobbyists and pundits instead, and thought he could just float through the ensuing shit storm.   For that too we will all pay.  Dearly.

Erik Redburn wrote:

They also have a growing lumpen proletariat too, as do we.  It's not incredible, it's what happens when we allow narrow vested interests to decide all our foreign policies.  But I'm not going to argue this again, we all know its true but I also know where this will end again from long experience.  

Yes, yes, no other country has as many protests about the conditions annually as China. I admire the Chinese solidarity in their willingness to get out there in the streets and show the government guys who's boss. Apparently at one publicly owned factory slated for privatization, they lynched the foreman. killed him to death even. 

I think the one thing we can agree on which the our newz media jackals and corporations aren't telling us is that Chinese standard of living is rising while our's is stagnant and even falling for very many laid off workers in North America. Economist Michael Hudson says that this is the truth underlying China's increasing productivity and labour force that is most highly regarded in the world now. Hudson says that relative to everything is the increasing income levels and increased standard of living in China. And as Hudson says about it, it is simply not true that North American workers would become more productive if we accepted lower standards of living with this neoliberal austerity baloney. It's why capitalists don't ship jobs to the real thirdworld bastions of true laissez-faire capitalism where education and health care are nil next to non-existent for large sections of the population. 

According to you, sir, and to your narrow adherence to dogma. But to those of us that can truly and really see, not at all. Democracy is not just barrelling on ahead while disavowing the rules of democratic process that you've been elected to uphold, but sticking to them even if you don't really get what you want initally. What you wanted was for Obama to act like a dictator-a progressive dictator, but a dictator nonetheless. When neither you or the rest of the progressive left-wing got it, you turned your back on him and did as I said in my previous post to you. But a leader in a democratic system of government can't act like that, and has to play by the rules of said governmental system. If they don't, then they're no better than a dictator (capatalist or socialist.) Face it; Obama wasn't extreme enough for you, so he's a useless piece of shit, as well as the other one that I mentioned.

More bullcrap.  The liberal notion that only THEY see the 'realities' and know how to govern is why their parties are disappearing all across the west.  Nother news flash, you cannt compromise with born-to-the-manor tyrants or pig-shit racists.  Even if you can't take them on directly you go after them in other less direct ways, as tea-baggers aint exactly bright.  But Obama hasn't even tried.  He too has governed well to the RIGHT of where most US citizens are NOw, and he's been so lame in his response to the lack of gratitude from his opponents (including in his own party) that the US may now be on the verge of voting for their first openly fascist government.   Blame the almost invisible left all you want, it won't save your hide either. 

Nah, Truman was a fool creating the CIA and downright evil nuking Japan, but it's taken a few generations for the corporatists to get what they really want.  Slavery or death.  Goodnight. 

If you want to rail about a fascist state then you should try Honduras. A military coup, backed by Canadian mining companies and sweat shop owners, to stop the democratically elected government from raising the minimum wage for workers.  

I think the Chinese people will develop the kind of government they want.  If you believe the Chinese government of 2011 is the same as the Chinese government of Mao's era it only tells me you have not read the books or seen the documentaries that I have.  

It is not a democracy but entry into the CPC is based on a meritocracy.  Young people who score the best marks on their national exams get the seats in the best universities and other programs.  The best and most talented students are invited to join the party.  I don't like the emphasis on rote learning for exams and don't think that China resembles a democracy but it hardly rates as the worst dictatorship.  The system seems to be more of a hybrid confucian and capitalist model.   This thread is not about Mao's regime it is about Notre Dame's vilification of China.  

My response was the very Xian one of,  "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."