That's okay, jas. As long as we don't react to the provocations, the mods might not close the thread down, which is what these nice people are trying to achieve, really. 
Why the wild and crasy plot theory still live so long
Wed, 2011-10-12 02:26
#52
Wed, 2011-10-12 04:22
#53
Frankly, Fidel, I don't give a damn. I guess the ruin of babble is an inside job too. Otherwise why would they let the towers nonsense go on so long?
You should have been suspended long long ago for continueing with this stuff.
And what are you talking about here? We haven't had any real threads on the towers here for over a year. How is this "ruining" Babble??
The problem with Brian's POV is that it says 9/11 is over and done with. Sorry folks, nothing to see here move along. They insist that we stop asking so many questions and sums-up their uncritical, non-skeptical and not very scientific outlook on things in general.
But it's not a very progressive way of looking at things. Firstly, 9/11 is an ongoing investigation. There is no statute of limitations on murder let alone mass murder. They are still hunting Nazis and war criminals from that era. So for someone to come along and demand that we cease and desist with asking questions about 9/11 and mass murder in general is absurd to say the least, and they are at risk for becoming irrelevant themselves. If they have nothing to say, then why don't they simply not say anything? They would be perfectly within their rights to say nothing if they have no opinion on the matter, and they would not be infringing on our right to be skeptical of the US Government's flakey 9/11 fairy tale at the same time. It's actually a win-win situation for all if they only realized it.
And secondly, the warmongers are still hopping mad on the airwaves about 9/11 and using it as an excuse for the phony global war on terror(GWOT). They don't think 9/11 is irrelevant, and so the left needs to present a counter-argument to the bs 9/11 fairy tale for which there is so little evidence supporting the official 9/11 Commission cover-up. Several countries have been attacked and are now occupied militarily as a result of this false flag act of terrorism. The Nazis committed several acts of false flag terrorism leading up to the invasion of Poland similarly, and the world might never have known about the Gleiwitz incident if it hadn't been for a legitimate trial in a World Court at Nuremberg 1945-46.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/Capture-8.gif[/img]
![http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/Capture-8.gif[/img]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/Capture-8.gif[/img]){kind=link}
Anyway. I think we should show some courtesy and thank Brian for his always helpful suggestions, and this one being to STFU WRT 9/11. Thanks, Brian! Thanx but no thanx.
The Glasnost is half full.
Wed, 2011-10-12 17:57
#54
So Fidel, did you model it in any engineering program? g 9.8 ms^-2 etc? Like a ship sinking, sucks stuff in cos it falls (acceleration) so quick. The air suck effect will not happen with the mickey mouse buildings that get demolished on tv. I mean, it is the tallest building ever to be taken down, so far. The normal rules that you have in your head simply do not apply. You should be banned for your 911 towers stuff. It really turns people off. The big deal about 911 is that it was used to destroy the american economy and the country of iraq by george w. Shop till you drop, on credit till the richest of the rich own all of america. They use calamity to cause greater calamity. You are watching the eye but you missed the storm around it.
Wed, 2011-10-12 19:47
#55
Brian,
How many pairs of designer jeans do you own?
Wed, 2011-10-12 21:05
#56
I own none. Your point? And, the "hey you stop asking questions", should be. "Hey you! stop asking the wrong questions." "Hey you, stop asking stupid questions, etc etc."
It is over ten years ago, the saudi guy with the turban admitted that he planned it.
Get over it.
Now, if you guys cannot simulate a huge tall tower being hit by a plane and falling over like a tree sawn through 3/4 the way up by felix the cat you should shut the fuck up. Seriously. If you believe it so soo sooooo much, model it. You CANNOT convert normal people to this belief without a massiah or some sort of model about how it should have happened.
(By that I mean either a computer model or preferably a small scale model). Gaudi used small scale models when he designed large buildings. You might need a mix of lightweight components and a heavy gas or light liquid round your model but it can be done.
Either that or declare yourselves a religion.
(The designer jeans guy might not have been tongue in cheek.) And I am not either. Why cannot Fidel write conspiracy disaster movie scripts and spread the word to the masses that way, instead to 25 people on Babble?
Wed, 2011-10-12 21:48
#57
Wed, 2011-10-12 22:10
#58
It is over ten years ago, the saudi guy with the turban admitted that he planned it.
He admitted planning the wild and crasy plot theory and still live so long?
Although I may be more convinced that OSL died ten years ago of kidney problems in an American or French hospital, or maybe that he's living the life of a Scottish baron on a golf course in Switzerland, according to recent news stories in the spring, an unarmed fellow resembling OSL was assassinated and his body dumped in the ocean. I am over it. Let's stop the war already. Emmanuel Goldstein is dead.
Thu, 2011-10-13 05:18
#59
It is over ten years ago, the saudi guy with the turban admitted that he planned it.
The US FBI admits they still have no proof that Elvis bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11. Elvis bin Laden originally denied having anything to do with 9/11 stating correctly that mass murder and killing of innocents is forbidden by Islam. And then a series of fake photographs and videos were produced of Elvie the bogeyman over the years and depicting a younger and more menacing Emanuel Goldstein type of public enemy numero uno each time. We're not laughing at you Brian. We're trying to laugh with you, but you're making it difficult.
Get over it.
I've been meaning to ask, did you ever get over the Nazis and their crimes against peace? Your willingness to forigive and forget is highly admirable, but your sympathizing with established war criminals is irrelevant since new international laws were a result of the Nuremberg trials. I'm sorry, Brian, but mass murder leading to liquid global war and marching armies across sovereign borders is still against international law regardless of your willingness to forgive and forget the matter.
So Fidel, did you model it in any engineering program? g 9.8 ms^-2 etc?
I've looked at some of the non-truther's equations for WTC2 collapse, and they don't make sense. But the A&E's are pointing to the NIST's model for collapse in 7WTC. The NIST produced a computer model for which they refuse to release the data to the public and anyone wanting to scrutinize their findings. Suspicious. And their model allows for the building to crumple through 18 floors at 5.4 seconds and with all kinds of deformation happening. The 1500+ engineers for truth say that the NIST's model is not reality.
The normal rules that you have in your head simply do not apply.
Newtonian laws of motion are always in effect, and you won't be convincing 1500+ certified engineers for 9/11 truth with more than 25000 years of on the job experience, or myself, that "crush-down crush-up" is anything but pseudo-scientific baloney. Not soon.
You should be banned for your 911 towers stuff.
Who died and made you head inquisitor? I refuse to recant my heresies now or ever. Sorry, but you'll just have to ready the rack for another one.
The big deal about 911 is that it was used to destroy the american economy and the country of iraq by george w. Shop till you drop, on credit till the richest of the rich own all of america. They use calamity to cause greater calamity. You are watching the eye but you missed the storm around it.
Yes the first order of business for fascists in general, even before attacking trade unions and organized labour, is to deliberately destroy the economy in paving the way for increasing authoritarian rule with corporations first in line for what is typically a military-corporate agenda. What's good for corporations is good for America, and 9/11 produced untold windfalls for a select number of corporations close to the two war parties.
Democracy should more appropriately be referred to as corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. - crasy George II
Thu, 2011-10-13 09:45
#60
It is over ten years ago, the saudi guy with the turban admitted that he planned it.
Get over it.
Now, if you guys cannot simulate a huge tall tower being hit by a plane and falling over like a tree sawn through 3/4 the way up by felix the cat you should shut the fuck up. Seriously. If you believe it so soo sooooo much, model it. You CANNOT convert normal people to this belief without a massiah or some sort of model about how it should have happened.
(By that I mean either a computer model or preferably a small scale model). Gaudi used small scale models when he designed large buildings. You might need a mix of lightweight components and a heavy gas or light liquid round your model but it can be done.
Either that or declare yourselves a religion.
(The designer jeans guy might not have been tongue in cheek.) And I am not either. Why cannot Fidel write conspiracy disaster movie scripts and spread the word to the masses that way, instead to 25 people on Babble?
You should be banned for your 911 towers stuff. It really turns people off.
So it is okay to troll here? I get confused with the inconsistent moderation. I know if Fidel or I were to adopt this tone, telling other people to shut up and drop the subject, while at the same time not dropping the subject ourselves, we would be admonished, if not suspended, mods would threaten to shut the thread down, and some here would cluck about how "conspiracy theorists" can't argue without getting hysterical.
Thu, 2011-10-13 14:46
#61
By the way, Fidel just accused me of being a mass murder sympatizer.
I saw the second plane hit the second tower on tv that morning. I know, it was hollywood speciall effects, and the hijackers were just a smokescreen and a team of nanobot demolition experts bred from umpalumpas actually did it, etc. I worked in factories and I know how bluddy difficult it is to plan even simple things and how even the wrong supplier for drill bits can screw up a process in another section of the factory. (But that was England and no umpalumpas on site or hiding in the machines.)
And frankly, the Americans are just people like the rest of us. Mr Smith, superman and all the other evil heros do not exist. They (americans) don't have the capacity to demolish a skyscraper. People were full of surprise when suspension bridges came down in mild steady winds too. But that's nature. Full of surprises.
But I don't care one way or the other.
Apart from this and his right wing gun happy trigger finger, Fidel is not a bad guy. If I had a bodyguard, bullet proof vest and body armour, I am sure i could go for a drink with him. (under certain conditions)
It is distressing watching the contortions that fidel puts himself and everyone else through with this. I guess it is from watching a lot of tv and getting too involved in complicated plots in movies. If the simplest explanation works, most people will go with that and that includes scientists and engineers. (Engineers are wide ranging and not many have the skills to know how a really high tower will fall before it happens.) You are saying that it "couldn't" fall the way it did because your "model" didnt predict this.
But that is one of the funny things about humans. They try to base reality on models, even when reality behaves different to their models. So which is right, the reality that we saw or the model? "O well, my model did not predict it so reality must be wrong". By the way, I was saying that newtons physics are quite right, 9.8 meters per second per second had not been done on that scale before and combined with construction shortcuts age of building and the suction effect of the giant towers falling, they would explain what happened pretty well. But you guys have not bothered to look into that possibility. Because conspiracy theorys are addictive and mind viruses are hard to dislodge.
Thu, 2011-10-13 15:00
#62
Laqueuer's book made it pretty clear that the Holocaust was an open secret since 1941. http://us.macmillan.com/theterriblesecret/WalterLaqueur
Thu, 2011-10-13 15:19
#63
By the way, Fidel just accused me of being a mass murder sympatizer.
Well if I did, it was not meant to be interpreted that way. I think it's straightforward, though. One either supports international law and justice or not. Clearly if a certain group of nuclear-armed countries are getting away with mass murder, then there is a problem, wouldn't you think?
I saw the second plane hit the second tower on tv that morning. I know, it was hollywood speciall effects, and the hijackers were just a smokescreen and a team of nanobot demolition experts bred from umpalumpas actually did it, etc.
What you saw was two planes fly into the towers, and the towers remained standing as they were designed to. World renowned ship collision expert Anders Bjorkman describes the twin towers as two large bird cages designed to withstand a few missing outer columns.
If the simplest explanation works, most people will go with that and that includes scientists and engineers.
Brian do you realize just how complex the NIST's pseudo-scientific explanation really is? The least complicated explanation and the NIST's cover-up are two different things altogether.
And some people might wonder why 1500+ engineers are so concerned about an event that happened 10 years ago. And it's not what some of us think - that the A&Es for 9/11 truth are just nosing around Government business where they have none. But that's not true at all. Engineering is the only profession that owes a duty of care to the larger public, and it is in the A&Es professional job descriptions to know exactly why the worst building collapses in history occurred down to the finest detail. The NIST is obligated by law to satisfy that requirement.
Thu, 2011-10-13 16:22
#64
Laqueuer's book made it pretty clear that the Holocaust was an open secret since 1941. http://us.macmillan.com/theterriblesecret/WalterLaqueur
That's a good comparison, Caissa. A lethal combination of disbelief and indifference to the issue doomed millions of Jews and other ethnics in the concentration camps and those in Eastern Europe who were hunted by mobile death squads at the time. Millions had given up any and all hope that international justice would ever be served. It was a dark time for humanity.
And what we have today is a group of nuclear-armed and heavily militarized countries marauding into sovereign countries, bombing and killing indiscriminately without fear of retribution. And the former mujahideen 'freedom fighters' have morphed in to an invisible army of darkness turning up wherever counter-insurgency is required, or perhaps simply to wage armed insurrections against sovereign states and supported by Oceania and its minions.
The War on Whistleblowers by grtv
This week GRTV talks to Sibel Edmonds, famed FBI whistleblower and the Editor of BoilingFrogsPost.com about the various ways that whistleblowers in the national security establishment are retaliated against, set upon by the establishment, and undermined by the very foundation-funded organizations that are supposed to be helping them.
Sibel Edmonds, one of the gutsiest women alive today telling on the bastards. And this is more than indifference in U.S. Government. This is ongoing corruption and criminal activities in and out of corporate-sponsored Government.
Thu, 2011-10-13 16:45
#65
I don't know or care who the NIST are. The colleges and universitys churn out hundreds of thousands of engineers every year. 1500 + worried engineers is nothing to worry about. How many Biologists believe in Virgin birth in higher primates? Your religious belief prevents you from believing that a really tall tower can fall straight down after being hit by a massive plane. Even when you see it happen on tv in real time! You also cannot believe that steel gets weakened by heat. (So does concrete by the way). So you have to construct something magical to explain it. Something a million times more complex than what happened.
Now, lets see, you got a thousand tonnes? of solid jjunk falling 10 ft. How much energy is that? (mgh) 29 million Joules. (I didn't check my figures because this is beyond a joke at this stage.) But I am sure you have the figures, eh fidel? So lets hear them. How much energy did the top 10 or 15 stories of the towers have when they fell and hit the one under the plane? Certainly not enough to damage concrete and steel? Why the hell not? Have you any idea what type of shock wave that must have given the building? (And really, I was surprised that a plane hitting the building didnt take it down straight away.)
As Nickolson would say "you cannot handle the truth" . And neither can 1500+ underemployed bored engineers with nothing better to do with their time and imagination.
Thu, 2011-10-13 17:53
#66
Hey Brian, shut the fuck up.
You should be banned for your idiotic beliefs.
(any bets on how quickly the mods will swoop in now that I've said it?? 
)
Thu, 2011-10-13 17:55
#67
I don't know or care who the NIST are. The colleges and universitys churn out hundreds of thousands of engineers every year. 1500 + worried engineers is nothing to worry about.
How many licensed P.Eng's have signed petitions backing the crasy George II version of 9/11 events?
Your religious belief prevents you from believing that a really tall tower can fall straight down after being hit by a massive plane.
Not even the NIST says the towers collapsed due to plane impacts. Apparently you don't understand what two guys for the NIST have been trying to pawn off to the public in their latest version of collapse theory.
Even when you see it happen on tv in real time! You also cannot believe that steel gets weakened by heat. (So does concrete by the way). So you have to construct something magical to explain it. Something a million times more complex than what happened.
But what if there are real world fire scenarios for steel frame buildings, and none of them collapsed after burning hotter and longer than the sporadic fuel-starved office fires on 9/11? Where is your bunky theory then besides nowhere without a single precedent for it happening? Your bunky theory has nowhere to go except to the next floor below where a significant jolt should occur according to laws of nature. Instead it spirals into freefall as if by your own doing.
Now, lets see, you got a thousand tonnes? of solid jjunk falling 10 ft. How much energy is that? (mgh) 29 million Joules. (I didn't check my figures because this is beyond a joke at this stage.)
You're not dealing with reality. Your numbers are nonsense. It's like you're not even paying attention to the topic of discussion.
Thu, 2011-10-13 20:14
#68
On September 11, 2001, I watched TV. Over and over the networks played the same thing. Two airplanes hitting two towers and then they would quickly cut to the two towers collapsing. I believed it. I was convinced. Like former Prime Minister Paul Martin said: "I along with most people here basically saw on television those planes going into the World Trade Center. And, it was pretty clear to me, that the reason that it happened were those planes that went into the World Trade Center, and so I really find it really difficult to believe any other kind of a theory."
The TV was right. I saw it. It must be true. Except, I do remember a short news item about a third building collapsing later in the day. Whatever. I kept watching the videos. I felt shocked. It wasn't until later when the TV started to show families and friends of missing people gathered in Manhattan -- then I felt sad, very sad. I felt grief.
Years later I watched a video by Mike Ruppert, The Truth And Lies Of 911. Regardless of what we may believe or not, I think that maybe more than a few of us here, caissa?, Fidel?, jas?, have crossed the rubicon.
"You look at this tape" ... "it hasn't changed anything." - Mike Ruppert
Thu, 2011-10-13 20:59
#69
The conspiracy is a Western world financial oligarchy attempting to takeover whole nations by marauding capital in ways that used to be achieved by military attacks and occupations.
The conspiracy is lquid global war against desperately poor people and increasingly so as of ten years ago this September.
The conspiracy is one-billion chronically hungry people.
The conspiracy is in melting ice caps.
The conspiracy is the increasingly polluted air we breathe and that kills many every year.
The conspiracy is an ever rising cost of living and labour wages stagnant for three decades.
The conspiracy is "stubborn" levels of poverty in what was supposed to be a prosperous post cold war era.
The conspiracy is that FPTP is electoral fraud.
The conspiracy is with lapdog newz media ignoring objectivity and truth day in and day out.
The conspiracy is real and grows stronger where people do nothing to stop it.
Thu, 2011-10-13 22:50
#70
Catchfire
So I'm closing this thread. Please don't start another one for awhile.