NDP Leadership 23

I got the Topp email (in Ontario).  I can only guess my email address was provided by the federal party, and that other candidates have equal access to the party mailing list.  I will be extremely displeased if Topp somehow got the inside track.

Re Jack: I think that the NDP MPs knew more than we did since their twitter accouts were very quite after Jack announced he was stepping down for a while. I saw a picture of Jack at Pride that Olivia posted where he did not look very well and still, with the announcement, I was hoping it would be positive like Olivia becoming pregnant.

Re Mulcair Liberal: The 20-22 years olds are young enough than they have never been anything else but NDP. The Media can do the old Mulcair=Bob Rae bit - and, though it wasn't all his fault, Bob Rae's record has been haunting the NDP in Ontario for years.

Steelworkers say that their Quebec Branch speaks for itself and hints strongly that it did not endorce Topp.

RE: "I laugh every time I hear Tories say they're gonna attack Tom Mulcair for having a temper the way they attacked Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff on other fronts."

Compared to John Baird, Jason Kenney and any notable curling champion - including Russ Howard? Mulcair dissed Libby and some people won't forgive him for that.

Stephen Harper wearing glasses has made him seem less intimidating to some.

RE: Topp letter LOL about the cat! He does have a sense of humour. His sons being in the arts and his wife keeping her own name also sounds good - since both are a contrast to Harper's way of things. Was it my imagination or was there better music at Jack's funeral than for Will and Kate when they came?

RE: "Angry, negative campaigning works better for Conservatives than for social democrats, because it motivates conservative voters while persuading progressives not to vote."

True. Obama was good at getting digs in at his opponents when running for President without appearing to do so - think Topp is planning a similar strategy. Though I do sense a dig in what surrounds the above quote against Mulcair.

PS. Am I the only one getting tired of that commercial where Kevin O'Leary keeps talking about his testes?

Reposting here a couple comments I made in that excellent Pundits guide survey of the race linked above already.

Quote:

Very true about the campaigns not being dependent on the media.

The media is used for announcements and other things to 'drop out there' to get attention and to set out markers.

Even at this early stage when some of the campaigns are only barely organized, and none of them are really sure how to incorpoarate the new means of communication, the candidates are already getting through to members and supporters and beginning to identify themselves through other channels.

So yes, the media is even worse advised than usual to presume they can read the shape and contours of the campaign through how it is being 'reported'.

It is nice to for a change have the confidence for once that the typical media distortions will not matter in the end.

At this early stage the majority of members have still not heard that much... so a higher percentage of what they have heard comes via the media 'filter'.

And it is irritating to hear people repeat some of the baseless interpretations. I do not like hearing it even about candidates I am not likely to support.

Irritating, but not concerning. These are our stories and our discussions we will tell each other- like all politics should be.

BTW: Does the Socialist Caucus still exist? I thought for sure they would run a candidate for the leadership like they did with Bev Meslo in 2002. If they do still exist will they bother endorsing anyone? So far the MPs who are most associated with being on the left of the party seem to be all over the map. Libby Davies and Alexandre Boulerice are for Topp. But then again Mathieu Ravignat and Philip Toone are for Mulcair...

I predict that at some point the three or four pepple who make up that "faction" will hold a news conference to announce with great fanfare that they are endorsing Brian Topp for leader. Then if and when Topp wins the leadership, Barry Weisleder will claim that the only reason he won was the "critically important" (not) last-minute endorsement by the Socialist Caucus!

jerrym wrote:

I am concerned about Topp's promise to take the high road in dealing with Harper (it might be appropriate or not) while taking the low negative road in attacking Mulcair for being negative and not being in the party for a long time. I do not know yet who I will vote for leader, but this does not impress me and makes it less likely that I will vote for him. Mulcair also could have avoided commenting on Topp's electoral inexperience, although I don't think this was as severe as Topp's attack. It is very early in the campaign and the attacks on both sides could get a lot worse if everybody starts playing tit for tat.

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Topp promises to take high road

Mulcair's negativity won't defeat Harper, candidate says as he heads to Surrey

By Peter O'Neil, Vancouver Sun October 15, 2011

Brian Topp heads to Surrey on Sunday, possibly the NDP's most crucial political battleground, while taking aim at his famously hottempered rival Thomas Mulcair.

Topp, a candidate for the New Democratic Party leadership, is telling party members the NDP can't succeed by using anger and negativity to defeat Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

Topp's declaration follows the announcement Thursday that Mulcair, the combative Quebec MP nicknamed "The Grizzly," had entered the leadership race with the support of a third of the party's 102-member caucus.

"I don't believe that straight negative campaigns aimed at the Conservatives will defeat them," Topp said Friday, noting that the Liberal party failed miserably in its hardball campaign against the Tories. He acknowledged that his nice-versus-nasty comment was in relation to Mulcair's candidacy.

Topp heads to Surrey on Sunday for a campaign-style event where a number of provincial and federal politicians will endorse his candidacy.

On Thursday, former Saskatchewan MP Lorne Nystrom, Mulcair's most prominent backer, said New Democrats need a leader like Mulcair who is a "fighter" to "get in the ring" with Harper.

Topp challenged Nystrom's proposition in an email sent out to roughly 30,000 New Democrats, about a third of the total party membership.

"The style of our next campaign may emerge as a point of debate in this leadership race. In my view, we won't defeat Mr. Harper by 'taking him on,' by 'hammering' him, or by 'facing him down,'" Topp wrote. "Angry, negative campaigning works better for Conservatives than for social democrats, because it motivates Conservative voters while persuading progressives not to vote." Topp, in his "let me say hello" letter, said Jack Layton's "propositional" approach that focused on policy solutions rather than attacks is the way to win government. Topp, derided by Mulcair for never having been elected to public office in his life, also drew attention to Mulcair's "relatively brief" time in a party that usually values loyalty and commitment to principles over political skills.

Has anyone ever heard Mulcair referred to as "The Grizzly"? Very strange.

Meh - I'd say something like, "he really blew a gasket".

"pété une fuse" = "blew a fuse"

(Written "pété", but pronounced "pêté". A widespread variation on the expression is "pété une coche".)

"du nouveau monde" = "new people", tout simplement

As for the substance of the article:

To me, it's mostly a rehashing of known stories (for the political aficionado). I expected more new information (and more of an in-depth look).

The stuff that relates to unions, in particular, is not handled very well. Marissal sort of implies that the Steelworkers' Topp endorsement is somehow a reaction to fears about Mulcair's stance on trade unionism. Furthermore, it would have been much more interesting to read about the sort of comments Azana quoted in these threads rather than Mulcair's comments on "meta", race-related issues (the carve-out). On the "defense" side, Marissal mentioned Mulcair's involvement in his union when he was a civil servant, but failed to mention the interesting (and new-to-me) information that he worked on union-side mandates when he was a lawyer in private practice (this appeared in Mulcair's bio on his leadership bid website).

Stockholm wrote:

I predict that at some point the three or four pepple who make up that "faction" will hold a news conference to announce with great fanfare that they are endorsing Brian Topp for leader. Then if and when Topp wins the leadership, Barry Weisleder will claim that the only reason he won was the "critically important" (not) last-minute endorsement by the Socialist Caucus!

Why is this reactionary socialist-bashing permitted here???

So, the argument is that Mulcair is paranoid, abrasive and angry. Clearly these are traits that couldn't possibly get you into the PMO. :| It's not like the only two Tory candidates to win comfortable majorities of English Canada since WWII exemplified those characteristics or anything.

The NDP is already a leader-centred, top-down party that blacklists and exlcudes dissidents. The only difference I can see between a Mulcair leadership and Topp's is that Mulcair wouldn't be cuddly about it and would actually bring some honesty and emotional authenticity to the party's already-existing muscular, autocratic, authoritarian structures.

Maybe it's just personal bias but it was Topp not Mulcair who showed up on babble to defend the party's right to blacklist any member from seeking a party nomination indefinitely without explanation, appeal or accountability. The fact that he does this kind of thing with a soft voice doesn't make a whit of difference to me.

In other news, any word on Pat Martin's pro-merger candidacy?

oops - I forgot about the Bonhomie winter carnival mascot!

Wilf Day wrote:

By the way, google translates "il a vraiment pété une fuse" as "he really farted a fuse." I love the phrase, but is it the correct translation?

Heh, you gotta love polysemy. Péter (to fart) also has examples on Wiktionary such as Le ballon a pété or Je me suis pété la jambe au ski. You're not literally saying that you farted your leg while skiing, but rather substituting a word that already means "to break (wind)" for a more neutral verb to make it more colourful.

Sort of like how the verb foutre (technically can be translated "to f**k") can also be used to make more vulgar a sentence that would otherwise have faire, placer or mettre. So Qu'est-ce que tu fous à New York is more like a mild "WTF are you doing in New York"?

dacckon wrote:

Topp has now received nods from B.C. MPs and legislative members including Newton-North Delta MP Jinny Sims, Surrey-North MP Jasbir Sandhu, Surrey-Timbers MLA Sue Hammell, Surrey-Newton MLA Harry Bains, Surrey-Whalley MLA Bruce Ralston and Surrey-Fleetwood MLA Jagrup Brar.

Interesting. The same people who supported Adrian Dix in the BC provincial leadership race (aside from Brar who endorsed Farnworth). Cumulatively, they have major clout with the large Surrey Indo-Canadian membership.

I'm still dumbfounded that no one of any significance from BC has endorsed Mulcair (aside from Michael Byers). 

JeffWells wrote:

 

Quote:

NDP Socialist Caucus to Decide on Candidate for NDP Federal Leader

The NDP Socialist Caucus will host a conference on November 26, to be held in Toronto, to decide its position on the federal NDP leadership race.

The SC is concerned that some putative candidates for leader advocate a merger of the NDP with the big business-backed Liberal Party, and seek to steer the NDP on a policy course further to the right.

http://www.ndpsocialists.ca/Events.html

I wonder where they'll be meeting.  Since the advent of the cel phone, phone booths have become a thing of the past.