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NDP Leadership Forum 29
Thu, 2011-10-27 13:33
#1
NDP Leadership Forum 29
Thu, 2011-10-27 13:40
#2
With this at 29 we could probably benefit from an NDP forum.
Thu, 2011-10-27 13:47
#3
Boom Boom
Sheesh - I go away for 24 hours, and two new threads have started! Y'all need to slow down a bit.
Thu, 2011-10-27 14:15
#4
Caissa in the last thread: "Topp suggesting raising taxes on the rich seems to be a clear attempt to address the economy. I'm eagerly awaiting his next plank when he announces taxes on corporations need to be increased."
That's as far as NDP "economics" has got in the last many years, Caissa. It's been the drumbeat of democratic socialism for many moons, and generally avoided by countries wishing to keep industries at home. The lucky middle-class-worker-Scandinavians have been primed for years to take higher taxes on the chin themselves because they like to work. Corporate taxes there are relatively low.
When you begin to speak of a petro-loonie, raised to greenback value by those western commodities, pointing to a need for monetary policy that will give eastern export industries (and their increasingly unemployed workers) a break,then you are breaking out of the fold and "address(ing) the economy." And when you point to the unfairness of increasingly protectionist American trade policy as well...
Anyway, I don't recall hearing any of that from the bureaucratic centre.
Thu, 2011-10-27 17:07
#5
dacckon
Brian Topp gains Vancouver Island support and that of the President of the Victoria Labour Council, Another Topp Article
Robert Chisholm set to enter the race
And in unrelated news, an unelected senator doesn't like our national emblem, the beaver.
Thu, 2011-10-27 17:23
#6
Boom Boom has a point! ;)
Honestly, I don't think any of those applauding the "third way" realised that Tony Blair would be so gung-ho about privatization. Manitoba NDPs are not perfect, but they have never been gung-ho about privatization!
It was called the MGEA (Manitoba Government Employees Association) when Doer was a union leader. Doer is a bit like Chico from Chico and the Man negotiation-wise. It was the Tories and their corporate masters who insisted that it be called the MGEU.
RE: "Mulcair was sharply dressed as always (has the man ever not worn suit?) which prompted one lady I sat with at the start of the night to question whether he should have dressed down to meet the average NDP member, similar to how Harper donned a sweater-vest in a desperate to look human."
LOL! Have been having a lot of trouble keeping up with the comments - even concerning stuff I've said, but reading it all and should note that when I am about to say something someone beat me to it and I am two leadership threads behind.
Mulcair has a lot of good abilities - including very fluent bilingualism, but I think he has made a few enemies. Note that rabble is now being run by Kim Elliot and many of us, me included, are fans of Libby Davies. Let's reveal the elephant in the room!
Mulcair is hinting about a conversation he has had with Ken Neumann but not providing any details. The insinuation is that he knew what Topp promised in return for KN's support (ie a David Orchard moment). It will come out, though probabably not the big deal Mulcair is making it out to be.
Also, anyone in this race should be running as Prime Minister because that is how they will altimately be judged - who would make the best NDP Prime Minister. That said, strategic voting is a technical fallacy cooked up by the some Liberal coming off a binge - vote with your heart.
Jack's Dream by James Gordon is better than Raffi's version and more in keeping with the Occupy/Decolonize movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQSdJz5Uu34&feature=mh_lolz&list=HL131437...
Thu, 2011-10-27 17:33
#7
Dacckon, is that the beaver with or without his testicles!
I don't see the logic of replacing the beaver with an endangered animal - this Senator must be in denial! I personally think that the Council of the Federation would be a good replacement for the Senate - if there is actually a need for a replacement.
Looking forward to what Peggy Nash has to say tomorrow!
Thu, 2011-10-27 18:58
#8
Boom Boom
I've seen Robert Chisholm on the suppertime politics shows, and he doesn't excite me the way, say, Peggy Nash does. I know he's extremely competent, but he's dull on TV at least in the appearances I've seen. My guess is he's entering the race to enhance his profile - and that's okay, because others are probably doing the same thing. It'll make for great debates when all these candidates finally get a chance to respond to questions in a live forum.
Thu, 2011-10-27 19:19
#9
Chisholm speaks no French so he really cannot be considered a serious candidate - but its probably good for the party to have someone running from Atlantic Canada. Just like it will be good to have a Prairie voice once Niki Ashton jumps in.
Thu, 2011-10-27 21:18
#10
From the previous thread:
Peggy Nash's countdown on her website!
! indeed... That page is rather hypnotic.
I'm looking forward to see how her campaign develops. Prior to her entry in the race, I wasn't particularly interested in becoming a member in order to vote. I now might decide otherwise. (I suppose membership in another provincial party in Quebec is not a bar to becoming a member of the federal NDP?)
Anyone knows of clips of her speaking in French (preferably not reading a written statement)?
Thu, 2011-10-27 22:13
#11
Malcolm
As noted before, Chisholm does bring one very valuable asset to the table - and no one else in the NDP can match it. He has actually led a party that went from distant also-ran to contender, and while he wasn't able to take the NSNDP over the top, he was able to consolidate the gain.
Thu, 2011-10-27 22:23
#12
I've seen Robert Chisholm on the suppertime politics shows, and he doesn't excite me the way, say, Peggy Nash does. I know he's extremely competent, but he's dull on TV at least in the appearances I've seen. My guess is he's entering the race to enhance his profile - and that's okay, because others are probably doing the same thing. It'll make for great debates when all these candidates finally get a chance to respond to questions in a live forum.
Boom Boom... hard to judge someone as a politician, especially their retail skills, from panel discussions, etc. on shows like Power and Politics.
If you meet Robert, you'd probably have a different take on him. Sure other Nova Scotians on babble who are familiar with him can back that up.
There is a reason he took the NDP in Nova Scotia from third place status with 4 seats to tying the governing Liberals with 19 seats in 1998.
That said, Stockholm is correct. He is just learning French though I'm told Paul Dewar's French is horrible and that isn't stopping him from being a leading contender.
I'll say this about Robert... I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a good chunk of support. I wouldn't underestimate him.
Thu, 2011-10-27 22:28
#13
As noted before, Chisholm does bring one very valuable asset to the table - and no one else in the NDP can match it. He has actually led a party that went from distant also-ran to contender, and while he wasn't able to take the NSNDP over the top, he was able to consolidate the gain.
You got to it before I did :)
If you think about it, Robert was the Jack Layton in Nova Scotia back in 1998... actually, more successful than Jack. He got almost 35% of the vote in 1998... up from 17.7% in 1993 and tied with the governing party in seats.
Thu, 2011-10-27 22:45
#14
Malcolm... curious about something in Saskatchewan that was pointed out to me last night. Brian Topp worked in Saskatchewan for several years in the 1990's as everyone is aware. Why did he only have Romanow and Atkinson as endorsements when he was in Saskatoon?
Thu, 2011-10-27 22:54
#15
nicky in the last thread
I don't think we have ever got a clear version of what went on at the Sept. Federal Council meeting which set the rules for the leadership race. I think it would be most helpful if someone could explain what exactly happened there because this seems to be the context for Mulcair's much-impugned remarks.
Nothing happened at the Council meeting except to rubber-stamp the decision at the Executive meeting the day before, where they ruled that the constitution as amended in (2006?) no longer permitted the labour carve-out.
What happened at the Executive meeting? Do you think anyone will ever say? Did Mulcair scare them off? Or was it never really an issue and he is posturing? Or does he even know what happened? Lots of speculation. What bothers me is the tone of comments identifying enemies. Leadership candidates with good judgment have no enemies within the party.
Thu, 2011-10-27 23:34
#16
Boom Boom
Boom Boom... hard to judge someone as a politician, especially their retail skills, from panel discussions, etc. on shows like Power and Politics.
Really? Jack Layton, Peggy Nash, Tom Mulcair and others have all been awesome on both the CBC and CTV politics shows over the years. I've never met any of them face to face, but based on their TV appearances alone both on panels and in individual interviews, I rated them higher than any of their competition in the NDP caucus that I've followed for the past ten years or so. Based on what I've seen so far, I think Nash and Mulcair can out-debate the rest of the current field of contenders easily, although I suspect Saganash will do well. Because I've never seen him in any media platform whatsoever, I know nothing as to how well Martin Singh might do. I suspect he's the lightweight in this field, but time will tell.
Thu, 2011-10-27 23:53
#17
From the previous thread:
Peggy Nash's countdown on her website!! indeed... That page is rather hypnotic.
I'm looking forward to see how her campaign develops. Prior to her entry in the race, I wasn't particularly interested in becoming a member in order to vote. I now might decide otherwise. (I suppose membership in another provincial party in Quebec is not a bar to becoming a member of the federal NDP?)
Anyone knows of clips of her speaking in French (preferably not reading a written statement)?
The only barrier to Québec members is in the media's mind. I find Chisholm decision to run quite asinine given his complete lack of French, but I am confident it will excite people in Atlantic Canada who might not join the party/pay attention to the race otherwise. I'm getting the vibe that one of the major undercurrents of this race is the successful candidates desire/"need" to move the party to the right to try and achieve a large enough mainstream following to win power and form government. Some candidates, like Topp, I think are currently campaigning to the left but based on his past, it is probably fair to assume he would drop some bombs and move to the right after he became leader, possibly in the context of an election campaign. Mulcair is showing his cards upfront so people see where he would take his right turn, Cullen and Dewar are trying to dodge the question by putting forward a "great unifier" meme but Cullen has given an indication that moving in to government might mean cooperation or co-optation of the Liberals and Dewar has been spending time trying to put forward a pragmatist vision of himself while visiting moderate Manitoba and progressive conservative Ontario (Yes I know this is where he has a network), Martin Singh is talking about making the NDP "pro-business" by cutting taxes and regulation, Peggy Nash will probably have some couched language of her own, as an NDP caucus member she has always been about the "pocketbook issues," which was the NDP brain trust's way of easing onto right-wing turf under Layton, Saganash I am having trouble pinning down but he seems to be running more on his persona (again "the unifier") and the files he knows well (the environment, FN issues, resource development), his air campaign is still in the tortoise race phase, Chisholm seems to like to talk in very vague terms and I wonder if he will portray himself as a "moderate" or "pragmatist" or another one of those buzz words, and finally, if Niki Ashton the leadership candidate is anything like the MP, maybe she will be the one to buck the trend and run as a radical
...at least on economic protectionism.
Fri, 2011-10-28 00:05
#18
Really? Jack Layton, Peggy Nash, Tom Mulcair and others have all been awesome on both the CBC and CTV politics shows over the years. I've never met any of them face to face, but based on their TV appearances alone both on panels and in individual interviews, I rated them higher than any of their competition in the NDP caucus that I've followed for the past ten years or so. Based on what I've seen so far, I think Nash and Mulcair can out-debate the rest of the current field of contenders easily, although I suspect Saganash will do well. Because I've never seen him in any media platform whatsoever, I know nothing as to how well Martin Singh might do. I suspect he's the lightweight in this field, but time will tell.
Interesting how we perceive people. I find Nash mediocre in news situations. She can often dance around a question... and it's obvious. But in the House of Commons, she's a completely different person. Sharp and to the point in debate. Haven't seen her on the stump yet though.
Robert doesn't "shine" in media interviews but comes across as real. He's better on the stump... almost folksy. Where he really shines is in person.
One thing I find about Romeo is that he seems to be rather low key. Jack stepped into the room and you knew he was the leader. Romeo comes across as just another backbencher... so far. I'd like to see a little more "alpha" come out in him if it's there.
Fri, 2011-10-28 00:21
#19
Malcolm... curious about something in Saskatchewan that was pointed out to me last night. Brian Topp worked in Saskatchewan for several years in the 1990's as everyone is aware. Why did he only have Romanow and Atkinson as endorsements when he was in Saskatoon?
I'm not sure how seemly it would have been for Brian to put on a great big event with the provincial election nearly underway, at the time. I suspect he will have some more supporters in that province, as will others, but let everyone get the election out of the way first. No-one wants to look like they are detracting from that effort. About the only acceptable leadership campaign activity in Saskatchewan at the moment is canvassing.
Apropos of which, I see that Cullen was canvassing for Peter Prebble and one other MLA/candidate whose name escapes me right now in Saskatoon today.
Fri, 2011-10-28 00:44
#20
Malcolm
The other candidate Cullen was canvassing for was apparently Cathy Sproule, running in Pat Atkinson's former Nutana seat.
Hunky, I suspect Brian will want to trickle out endorsers over time. The problem with unveiling all of them (especially all the big ones) off the topp (couldn't resist) is that you eventually run out of them and thn you look like you've stalled.
The other thing, of course, is that Brian is not universally loved or even remembered with fondness here.
Fri, 2011-10-28 01:37
#21
To me the issue with Brian as a serioius leadership candidate, as opposed, say, to running in Davenport, is not that he is unelected, it is that he has never put himself forward for election.
Think of great NDP candidates like Nettie Wiebe who just fell short again May 2. It really hurts that she has been so close, been such a great candidate, would add so much to the House of Commons, and still been squeezed out by tiny margins.
Jack was not in caucus but he had been elected many times to city council in Toronto, and put himself forward for Mayor of Toronto, and for a Commons seat (twice I think) before he won, and then he won four times.
Jack was running for leader of the fourth party when he was elected, with a small causus, not the 102 members who stood up with Jack in the House after May 2, which is much larger pool to draw from, and has given us some quality candidate who already have a political base.
Fri, 2011-10-28 01:44
#22
Prior to her entry in the race, I wasn't particularly interested in becoming a member in order to vote. I now might decide otherwise. (I suppose membership in another provincial party in Quebec is not a bar to becoming a member of the federal NDP?)
Anyone knows of clips of her speaking in French (preferably not reading a written statement)?
There is no prohibition to belonging to a Quebec provincial party while being a member of the NPD (I'm a NPD and a QS member)... it is different than the other provinces, where the presence of a provincial NPD means that when you join you belong to both the federal and provincial party. (Nunavit also has no NDP...)
I don't have any links to Peggy Nash speaking in French, but I have heard her give talks in French (including answering questions) as well as speaking in Parliament. Her French is quite strong, certainly not quite as good as Topp, Mulcair, or Saganash, but far superior to virtually any other Anglo Canadian national politician currently on the scene (Peter Julian's is better, but he isn't running...). Her accent definitely leans a bit more formal and continental than Quebecois - the result I think of getting a UofT degree in French language/literature. She won't have any trouble campaigning in French, participating in debates, doing interviews, answering media or public questions, or any of the other ways we would expect the leader of a party with a strong base in Quebec to do.
Fri, 2011-10-28 01:45
#23
The other thing, of course, is that Brian is not universally loved or even remembered with fondness here.
I was speaking to someone from Saskatchewan that was familiar with Topp and the political scene during that time. Said basically the same thing. Interesting how Mulcair gets tagged as the one difficult to work with and it's widely reported... but the media haven't picked up on Topp's history in Saskatchewan.
Fri, 2011-10-28 01:56
#24
To me the issue with Brian as a serioius leadership candidate, as opposed, say, to running in Davenport, is not that he is unelected, it is that he has never put himself forward for election.
Yes, but that alone is a silly reason to exclude him if he has other valuable qualities. It is an important factor that should be taken into account alongside others, though, I agree.
However, the issue is not whether he'd put his name forward before, but whether he has the aptitude to do and grow into the job at hand. Same goes for all the other candidates.
In fact there is another candidate, who is touting elected experience, but whose judgement does not presently seem to be benefitting from that experience.
I'm just saying ... we will have to judge the entire package. Brian has given a reasonable explanation of why he didn't run before himself, and it's not like he hasn't been heavily involved in other ways all this time. Yes, he needs to learn retail politics and to let the warmth and mellowness of his middle years be more in evidence, and let himself let down his guard and listen to people and connect with them.
Other candidates have other challenges (e.g., Mulcair to learn the party culture, Dewar & Chisholm to improve their french, Saganash to refine his message and improve his profile, Cullen to make his campaign about more than the one issue that so far has been either been his saving grace or a deal-breaker, etc.).
Brian has seized a strategic opening, provided by the occupy movements north and south of the border, to recast the viability of discussing tax increases as a mainstream issue - something that many progressives before him either didn't try, or couldn't pull off (elected or otherwise). I think you of all people have to give him huge credit for that, Duncan. It was a skillful reframing of a tricky issue of long standing for us.
My feeling is that we'll see at the end of the five months which candidate has made the most progress on their own challenges, and take that as a sign of their growth potential going forward. We don't have to vote based on what we see today, just take it as a baseline against progress in five months' time.
Fri, 2011-10-28 02:41
#25
Malcolm
Duncan, it is ironic that you use the example of Nettie Wiebe as a foil for Brian's lack of experience as a candidate.
How many times had Nettie been a candidate BEFORE she ran for the leadership of the Saskatchewan NDP? And remember, she wasn't running for the leadership of the fourth part in the Saskatchewan Legislature, nor even for Leader of the Opposition, but for the whole enchilada.
I believe you will find the answer is "zero."
And unlike Brian, Nettie had no particular track record as a part activist or strategist.
Fri, 2011-10-28 05:41
#26
You got to it before I did :) If you think about it, Robert was the Jack Layton in Nova Scotia back in 1998... actually, more successful than Jack. He got almost 35% of the vote in 1998... up from 17.7% in 1993 and tied with the governing party in seats.
No question that Robert knows rolling with success. But Alexa gates credit for a huge portion of that. To a very great degree the NSNDP was riding the wave opened by Alexa's Nova Scotia breakthrough as a ferderal leader. [If so, then why could not do it as NSDP Leader. Alexa was very popular, but she was in a permanent rut as leader of the third party for a dozen plus years- its to her credit she recognised that and bowed out, despite everyone saying no, and before seeing the federal option as real, or attractive for that matter.]
But rest assured, Robert knows retail politics and how to connect. If he wasnt great on TV, I would guess it is becaue he is rusty, not to mention the new venue. That will pass very soon.
Fri, 2011-10-28 06:09
#27
Idealistic Prag...
Chisholm speaks no French so he really cannot be considered a serious candidate - but its probably good for the party to have someone running from Atlantic Canada. Just like it will be good to have a Prairie voice once Niki Ashton jumps in.
Martin Singh is from Nova Scotia too. And he was there first. 
Fri, 2011-10-28 07:32
#28
Fri, 2011-10-28 07:58
#29
And his French is good to boot.
===================
Nathan Cullen:
If there is any party that will reject an establishment candidate, it is going to be ours," said NDP MP Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley), who is also running in the leadership race.
"We are suspicious of the establishment in general, and we even recognize that there is one within our party."
Of course Nathan has a self interest in 'recognising' that. But its still spot on, and we watch it played out here.
It occurs to me that there are a few of us here who have butted heads in much more than passing or episodic fashion with one or more of the various NDP establishments, and tend to be treated as outcasts by it.... but who are also very disinclined to engage in or find credible the speculative fantasies here about what 'the establishment' is doing, is up to, etc.
Just saying. 
Fri, 2011-10-28 09:27
#30
Boom Boom
Peggy Nash announcing in a few minutes!
Fri, 2011-10-28 09:49
#31
I like what I'm hearing from Peggy this morning. (Expected I would!) I missed the introduction. Anyone know if any MPs present supporting her?
She'll be sorely missed as Finance critic, though.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:21
#32
Boom Boom
Didn't see who her supporters were in that very short CBC Newsworld piece here in Quebec, but afterwards a commentator said that the loss of candidate's critics positions is a bit of a setback for the NDP front bench because they have so many rookies, but especially losing Nash as finance critic will be rough. It's only for six months, though, and Harper is going to be PM for at least four more years anyway. On the plus side, CBC did report she has experience as an MP, was party president for two years, was also an effective union negotiator, and, as a woman, brings a measure of diversity to the leadership race.
ETA: I may be wrong, but it seems to me the CBC devoted more time to the announcements made by other candidates - especially Mulcair.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:22
#33
Nathan Cullen's French is not good, but at least it's there. If you know French, watch the videos on his website and judge for yourself.
I'm disappointed that on Peggy's website she seems to be positioning herself as an anti-trade candidate. I very much want to support her candidacy but I can't if she isn't at least matching her opposition with some clear proposals to make things work. Canada has to trade, unless we want to eat canned vegetables all winter. She is also needlessly opening herself and the party up to attack by the Conservatives.
Peggy successfully pressed the government to reject – for the first time in more than 20 years – the foreign takeover of a major Canadian company....In November 2005, Peggy led a delegation to Mar del Plata, Argentina to oppose the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:23
#34
dacckon
I can't view the stream at the moment but, ill read the transcript later. Best of luck to Peggy Nash, She's very capable of winning the race.
Edit: Here it is and here are the endorsements
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:27
#35
I welcome the candidacy of Brian Topp and each of the other candidates. The party should emerge much stronger as each candidate signs up new members. We can only vote for one person. My point was simply that there is a difference between being unelected and not having run.
Malcom I do not know my Sask politics. Of all the close Federal races lost, Nettie hurts the most for me personally. Maybe a better example would have been Guy Caron, who ran three times I think before winning. He came in to caucus as a veteran New Democrat and became Quebec caucus chair, all on the strength of having put himself out there.
How about Peter Julian. He first ran 20 years ago or so in Quebec, Alma maybe. A natural politician. He was drafted by the community to run in Burnaby and was supposed to lose. He has so much personal appeal that he won.
The tax the rich gambit is questionable as policy, though it allows Brian to go against type. The CCPA has spent over a decade on budget policy development. The party is ready for government as a result in my opinion. I prefer policy development to one off statements that create unnecessary opposition. When the Fair Tax Commission in Ontario studied wealth taxation, they discovered every body thought they were about to become rich. Now that was 20 years ago.
How the Occupy movement plays in the leadership race is interesting. I do not know what a candidate does other than to pay attention, listen and learn. MUlcair seems to think no poliitician wants to be associated with it. I find that curious, i like the 99% idea a lot.
Trish Hennessey began talking about the rich and the rest of us on behalf of the CCPA inequality project a few years ago. I liked the rest of us, the 99% is better I think.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:28
#36
Boom Boom
In the very short speech coverage I heard on Newsworld, she didn't mention trade - but spoke strongly of the need for social justice in this country, and pointing out that Harper is blind when it comes to this issue.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:31
#37
Boom Boom
How the Occupy movement plays in the leadership race is interesting. I do not know what a candidate does other than to pay attention, listen and learn. MUlcair seems to think no poliitician wants to be associated with it. I find that curious, i like the 99% idea a lot.
Peggy Nash in her candidacy announcement just now emphasized that she was at the Occupy Toronto protest (I think she said at "St. James Park - last night) and is learning from the movement.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:33
#38
dacckon
Well its the beggining of the race. She may favour fair trade or strategic trade over free trade(which isn't free) Lets not jump in and pick apart her first announcement. Patience my friend, I am personally waiting to choose a candidate after they debate each other. To me, that is when they prove what they are made of and what they offer the party. The debates were the key moment for the NDP last election.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:36
#39
Boom Boom
I mentioned earlier I am leaning towards Peggy, then Romeo. That hasn't changed.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:37
#40
I think leadership aspirants should have been allowed to keep their critic positions.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:39
#41
An interesting contention by Lawrence Martin. If he is correct, then these next few years could look like Margaret Thatcher landed in Canada.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:40
#42
The Peggy Launch is here http://peggynash.ca/2012/en/
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:43
#43
For those that haven't followed it, here is a potentially good wedge issue that could be opening up for the NDP: anti-bullying.
I hope the NDP does something about it.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:51
#44
Lou Arab
From what I can glean from Twitter, Nash had three MP endorsements: Randall Garrison, Anne Minh Thu Quach, and Mike Sullivan. Have I missed any?
She also picked up endorsements from Cheri DiNovo and Lorraine Michael.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:51
#45
knownothing
I didn't think she would run for leader because of her finance critic role but hey now that she is in I hope she pulls this race to the left.
Fri, 2011-10-28 10:52
#46
Fri, 2011-10-28 11:01
#47
and here are the endorsements
That's a good list. I have a lot of respect for many of those names.
Romeo and Peggy are still one and two for me, but I want to hear more policy from Romeo. Mostly his message has been about himself as a transformational candidate. Which is true enough, but I need to hear more specifics of his vision, or my preference may flip to Peggy and Romeo.
Fri, 2011-10-28 11:21
#48
From the Nash statement;
The next prime minister must be able to address two things. She ...
Fri, 2011-10-28 11:30
#49
From the Nash statement;
The next prime minister must be able to address two things. She ...
Whew! Good thing she said "must" and not "May".
Fri, 2011-10-28 11:35
#50
Her performance shows what four general elections behind you does when you have to stand up and speak your mind in front of your supporters. She has met expectations which are very high, since she has everything you need to lead the party, and lead the country.
Fri, 2011-10-28 11:43
#51
The tax the rich gambit is questionable as policy, though it allows Brian to go against type. The CCPA has spent over a decade on budget policy development. The party is ready for government as a result in my opinion. I prefer policy development to one off statements that create unnecessary opposition. When the Fair Tax Commission in Ontario studied wealth taxation, they discovered every body thought they were about to become rich. Now that was 20 years ago.
How the Occupy movement plays in the leadership race is interesting. I do not know what a candidate does other than to pay attention, listen and learn. MUlcair seems to think no poliitician wants to be associated with it. I find that curious, i like the 99% idea a lot.
This goes way beyond the leadership race probably- at least it is more general and 'bigger'. But I cant resist.
The parts that I highlighted is the policy wonk coming out too much, methinks.
The thing about policy that we most want to see- is that we do NOT see it because all of them are political minefields.
So it strikes me as self-evident that the first priority is to find the way through the mine field. The left tends to say that the mine field is at bottom a mirage, a product of low expectations, too much 'playing the game'. The prescription truly amounts to: 'Yes there are problems. It isnt going to be easy. We go in there, and you'll see, it is difficulties, not a mine field where odds are highest we get blown to smithereens just for trying."
To my mind that prescription is just not on, never will be. Which leaves finding the route through the minefield.
Curious: this honestly is a question for you Duncan, not some kind of test:
When it comes down to it, do you agree or not that the politics comes down to first finding the way through the minefield?
Anyway, if that is taken to be the first/primary step in the politics.... then it follows that the general notion of policy development, as in fully formed, is misplaced. You need policy development- and some people should be following it through right to the end as CCPA does.
But part of picking your way through the minefield is that fully formed policy development will not do the job. That is so much true, that it is likely to throw you off for finding even the first step that will work. And the minefield, not the fully formed policy development that should only be informing you of your goals, is going to drive your choice of the further steps through the minefield and their sequencing, contingencies. Etc.
Example right in front of us, and we are watching it real time. You ask where the Occupy movement fits with the leadership race. And I know you mean practically speaking, not 'the spirit' of each and that stuff, which is easy to connect around. Especially for a political culture accustomed to thinking it is getting nourishment from hearing the echoes of it's rhetoric.
The Occupy movement is a lot- if not most- of the opening for Brian Topp to bring out the tax the rich narrative at this point.
his plank is most of all about to the future of the NDP- but its also a wave and shout out to the Movement.
Obviously Brian Topp has been thinking and talking this for some time- and apparently with Ed and Jack. So the time was probably already judged to be pretty ripe. But in seizing opportunities in politics there is all the difference between 'time is ripe' and 'time to do it'. Probably we were going to hear that from Brian Topp anyway. But I think the Occupy movement had a lot to do with it being in Brian's first real public policy pronouncement.... where usually people are playing it safe.
Although the leadership race is in there, my primary point is really about the place of [fully formed] policy development and of 'picking your route through the minefield'.
........ And getting back to this particular example. What if we did have a fully formed policy vetted even through queries about what the public wants and where people see themselves. When it is all over, we still get exactly the same thing from our primary opponents the Conservatives, amplified through the media rats: no matter how much research and how nuanced your messaging, we will still face exactly the same fire and inflict the same wounds on us.
So the best thing to do- to my mind the only approach with a chance- is to figure out your first step with good odds.... and then gofrom there. And to my mind, the Occupy movement and how it has caught the public eye is just the cover for a first step.
The rest will follow.