Denise Savoie-francophone, yet from B.C., and with no known permanent leadership ambitions, would have been a better leader than Harris. Or perhaps Yves Godin.
Bob Rae surpasses Nycole Turmel on Leadership Index
Wed, 2011-11-02 23:28
#52
Wed, 2011-11-02 23:28
#53
Yes, but Joe hadn't ruled himself out of the leadership at the time. He is doing great as House Leader, by the looks of it, by the way.
Thu, 2011-11-03 00:30
#54
Comartin would be 65 at the time of the leadership convention. Wouldn't he be seen as being a bit too old for the job(especially since he'd be at least 67 by the time of the next general election)?
Thu, 2011-11-03 00:40
#55
I'm sure that played into his thinking. But he might theoretically have been interested in running at the time the Interim Leader had to be chosen, so that's why he wouldn't have been considered as Interim Leader, is what I'm saying.
Thu, 2011-11-03 02:48
#56
I'm sure that played into his thinking. But he might theoretically have been interested in running at the time the Interim Leader had to be chosen, so that's why he wouldn't have been considered as Interim Leader, is what I'm saying.
On Nov. 26 we will be halfway between the appointment of an Interim Leader and the election of a new leader. I really like Nycole Turmel. But if she would like to follow the bi-national spirit of alternance, Joe could take the next four months and do very well.
Thu, 2011-11-03 03:14
#57
How about this...give EACH of the leadership candidates a month to serve as Interim Leader...kind of an "audition" for the job. Might be the best way to see how each of them would handle the job.
Thu, 2011-11-03 09:24
#58
Jack Harris would have made a better interim leader.
But he speaks no French at all. I think the interim leader would have to have been at least passably bilingual. Bieng interim leader is not just about QP - most of the job is about caucus management etc...I suppose someone like Joe Comartin (who speaks French quite well) would have been a possibility.
She doesn't seem to be the best in English herself. I thought I saw somewhere that Harris knows a little French.
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:00
#59
knownothing
Great IdeaHow about this...give EACH of the leadership candidates a month to serve as Interim Leader...kind of an "audition" for the job. Might be the best way to see how each of them would handle the job.
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:02
#60
Nycole has a strong accent in English but she reads, writes and understands everything. She was President of PSAC which is a national organization most of whose members are English-speaking
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:11
#61
Boom Boom
How about this...give EACH of the leadership candidates a month to serve as Interim Leader...kind of an "audition" for the job. Might be the best way to see how each of them would handle the job.
It would provide endless merriment for the Conservatives. I can just see Harper or Baird saying "Let's welcome the latest NDP wannabee to the Leader's seat".
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:33
#62
Nycole has a strong accent in English but she reads, writes and understands everything. She was President of PSAC which is a national organization most of whose members are English-speaking
Wasn't the party's excuse for her saying private CEO's bonuses should be capped was because she had difficulty understanding the question Evan Solomon asked her, even though he repeated? I took this to mean that she had difficulty understand English.
Anyways there's only a few more months of her as leader. The issue going forward I think will be if the party can perform well with so many of their senior members duking it out for the leadership rather than her performance as leader.
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:58
#63
Northern Shoveler
Jack Harris would have made a better interim leader.
I didn't think he was bilingual. Nycole is doing exactly what she is supposed to be doing. The last thing the party needs is her stealing headlines from the critics or the leadership candidates. She was picked, because of her past experience, to keep a steady hand on the tiller as the party manoeuvres through the the shoals. Like a good marine pilot you should never know she's aboard if she's doing her job well. If the caucus are all working hard and working together as a team then she is doing an excellent job.
We want the attention on the leadership not Nycole. If she started stealing the limelight the question would be why is she not running. Bob Rae is what we don't want in an interim leader, a politician with so big an ego he can't share the limelight with contenders.
Thu, 2011-11-03 10:58
#64
Its one thing to possibly misunderstand a reporter's rapid fire question in English - it would be quite another to have a totally UNILINGUAL anglo (ie: Jack Harris) as leader when the caucus has something like a dozen MPs who are not just from Quebec but are unilingual francophones. During this difficult interim period - the number one task of the interim leader is to be able to communicate with caucus and manage things internally. Realistically over the next few months the leadership race will get much more attention than anything going on in the House of Commons - so - to be frank - who cares how great Turmel is as a Question Period performer. QP consists of the following: The Leader of the Opposition pretends to ask a question and the PM pretends to answer it!
Thu, 2011-11-03 11:34
#65
And the media pretends that something important happened.
Thu, 2011-11-03 11:48
#66
BTW: for all the talk abou t the NDP front bench having to be re-shuffled because f the leadership contest - its actually not as a big a deal as you think. Of the 9 people running (I'm counting Ashton) - two (Topp and Singh) are not MPs in the first place. Two more (Ashton and Cullen) did not have critic portfolios in the first place and instead chaired committees. One (Mulcair) was House leader but not critic of a particular portfolio and he was ably substituted by Comartin. The only real critic losses are Nash from Finance, Chisholm from Int'l Trade, Saganash fron Nat. Resources and Dewar from Foreign Affairs.
When harper quits (some day) I wonder if any Tories running to succeed him will have to resogn from cabinet (if they are in power) or quit the shadow cabinet positions (if they are in opposition).
What was the deal when the Liberals had their 10 person contest in 2006? Did they all have to quit the shadow cabinet?
Thu, 2011-11-03 12:05
#67
Northern Shoveler
When harper quits (some day) I wonder if any Tories running to succeed him will have to resign from cabinet (if they are in power) or quit the shadow cabinet positions (if they are in opposition).
What was the deal when the Liberals had their 10 person contest in 2006? Did they all have to quit the shadow cabinet?
I actually think it is a good idea. A critic must speak on behalf of the caucus on issues within their portfolio. Many of those issues have more than one side in the debate within the caucus. As babble shows many issues are multi hued and progressives can have differing opinions. Leadership candidates need to have the freedom to speak to the members about the issues that they want changed in party policy. It will be pretty boring if we don't get any of the same kind of debates that I am sure happen regularly in caucus.
Thu, 2011-11-03 12:05
#68
Yes, the NDP front bench is so weak right now, unless you count:
* Charlie Angus
* Françoise Boivin
* Alexandre Boulerice
* Guy Caron
* Olivia Chow
* Joe Comartin
* Jean Crowder
* Linda Duncan
* Jack Harris
* Peter Julian
* Megan Leslie
* Pat Martin
* Brian Masse
* Jinny Sims
* Peter Stoffer
... etc. You take my point.
Thu, 2011-11-03 12:22
#69
Boom Boom
Yes, the NDP front bench is so weak right now, unless you count:
* Jinny Sims
... etc. You take my point.
She did a terrible job as a new critic on P&P last week, even saying she is new to the job and unfamiliar with the file that was being discussed.
Thu, 2011-11-03 12:30
#70
I'd rather have her say that than wing it Boom Boom. She is an accomplished professional with gravitas and political skills. She'll do fine (and I hate Evan Solomon and that show Power and Politics so much that I'm not taking it as a signifier of anything these days).
Thu, 2011-11-03 12:47
#71
In 2015, Turmel won't be a factor in the least. It will be "Turmel who?". Just as Herb Gray wasn't a factor, postively or negatively, in the 1993 election. Not sure why we're even talking about it at length.
Thu, 2011-11-03 13:06
#72
Yes, the NDP front bench is so weak right now, unless you count:
* Jinny Sims
... etc. You take my point.
She did a terrible job as a new critic on P&P last week, even saying she is new to the job and unfamiliar with the file that was being discussed.
I was also going to mention this.
Thu, 2011-11-03 13:29
#73
Jinny Sims is the NDP critic for International Cooperation and she was grilled out of the blue about nuclear submarines...
Thu, 2011-11-03 15:14
#74
Boom Boom
That explains it. I thought she was introduced as the NDP defense critic. My bad.
Thu, 2011-11-03 15:14
#75
BTW, I totally overlooked three other outstanding front-benchers:
* Chris Charlton
* Dave Christopherson
* Yvon Godin
Thu, 2011-11-03 20:51
#76
I haven't had the time to watch Question Period but have followed it on Twitter and a number of media people have commented that the NDP aren't as organized as they had been with Jack and that they aren't asking the right question, though I know many here feel the media is bias.
Thu, 2011-11-03 21:23
#77
Not that so much, as feeling that Question Period is not all that important to real voters, and our performance at the moment will not be important or even remembered once a new leader is picked.
Mon, 2011-12-05 08:39
#78
[url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parle/saison8/]Bob Rae on Tout le monde en parle[/url]
Haven't watched it yet, but I heard a few clips on CBC radio this morning. From the sounds of it, he did extremely well in that format - and stayed for the rest of the show rather than leaving when his portion was done. His French is fluent and quite colloquial, sort of on Mulcair's level.
Ah, my fickle fellow folk of Québec - let's see how this plays in the press and polls.
Here's Elizabeth Thompson's [url=http://www.ipolitics.ca/2011/12/04/rae-blasts-ag-woos-quebecers-on-tout-.... And [url=http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/337657/le-chant-du-cygne-de-bob... Hébert's[/url].
ETA: Meh, I probably should have posted this [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/whatever-happened-momentum]her.... Who knows. There are 10 million threads on the same basic theme. Just need to find one that hasn't degenerated too far into squabbles.
Mon, 2011-12-05 08:47
#79
[url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parle/saison8/]Bob Rae on Tout le monde en parle[/url]
Haven't watched it yet, but I heard a few clips on CBC radio this morning. From the sounds of it, he did extremely well in that format - and stayed for the rest of the show rather than leaving when his portion was done. His French is fluent and quite colloquial, sort of on Mulcair's level.
Ah, my fickle fellow folk of Québec - let's see how this plays in the press and polls.
Here's Elizabeth Thompson's [url=http://www.ipolitics.ca/2011/12/04/rae-blasts-ag-woos-quebecers-on-tout-.... And [url=http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/337657/le-chant-du-cygne-de-bob... Hébert's[/url].
ETA: Meh, I probably should have posted this [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/whatever-happened-momentum]her.... Who knows. There are 10 million threads on the same basic theme. Just need to find one that hasn't degenerated too far into squabbles.
And the lines that he most wanted to put across, off course\:
"Asked about the NDP’s orange wave in the last election in Quebec, Rae praised Jack Layton’s courage in the last election and described him as a friend of 40 years.
However, he said there is a fundamental difference between the NDP and the Liberal Party.
“The problem I still have with the New Democratic Party is at its heart it is a protest party. It is a party that is more comfortable with opposition than with government.”
Mon, 2011-12-05 08:47
#80
It should be interesting to see if there is either bounce in the poll for the Liberals, though I doubt it would last long.
Mon, 2011-12-05 09:03
#81
Arthur Cramer
And the problem I have with Bob Rae is he is a disingenuous opportunist.
Mon, 2011-12-05 09:03
#82
[quoting Rae:] “The problem I still have with the New Democratic Party is at its heart it is a protest party. It is a party that is more comfortable with opposition than with government.”
... which is one of the key themes Jack used, successfully, against the Bloc. A lot of people I know were shocked that after taking the "beau risque" of voting NDP to stop Harper, they still ended up with a Harper majority. Rae is playing to this, albeit from a third party standpoint, just as Jack did. We shall see.
One thing for sure - the Liberal leadership race would appear to be well under way.
Mon, 2011-12-05 09:11
#83
Arthur Cramer
You know, I wish the leadership would start letting Bob Rae have it. They are just letting him get out there and set memes without challenging anything he says. This may have worked negotiating contracts with the government for federal employees, but this leadership missing in action stuff is really starting to irritate me.
If they are going to keep this up, why doesn't the leadership gave Rae the keys to Stornaway and just move out already?
Pathetic!
Mon, 2011-12-05 10:12
#84
[url=http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parle/saison8/]Bob Rae on Tout le monde en parle[/url]
Haven't watched it yet, but I heard a few clips on CBC radio this morning. From the sounds of it, he did extremely well in that format - and stayed for the rest of the show rather than leaving when his portion was done. His French is fluent and quite colloquial, sort of on Mulcair's level.
Ah, my fickle fellow folk of Québec - let's see how this plays in the press and polls.
Here's Elizabeth Thompson's [url=http://www.ipolitics.ca/2011/12/04/rae-blasts-ag-woos-quebecers-on-tout-.... And [url=http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/337657/le-chant-du-cygne-de-bob... Hébert's[/url].
ETA: Meh, I probably should have posted this [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/whatever-happened-momentum]her.... Who knows. There are 10 million threads on the same basic theme. Just need to find one that hasn't degenerated too far into squabbles.
Just read the iPolitics story on his appearance and it seems as though he had a strong performance on the show. Rae seems like the type of person who can think quickly on his feet and doesn't get nervous. I'd like to be able to watch this show it seems quite interesting.
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:13
#85
[quoting Rae:] “The problem I still have with the New Democratic Party is at its heart it is a protest party. It is a party that is more comfortable with opposition than with government.”... which is one of the key themes Jack used, successfully, against the Bloc. A lot of people I know were shocked that after taking the "beau risque" of voting NDP to stop Harper, they still ended up with a Harper majority. Rae is playing to this, albeit from a third party standpoint, just as Jack did. We shall see.
One thing for sure - the Liberal leadership race would appear to be well under way.
Harper would have had a majority regardless of whether people in Quebec voted BQ or NDP - but in 2015 there will only be one way to get rid of Harper and that will be by voting NDP. Going back to the BQ will accomplish NOTHING. The sad reality is that the NDP and the Liberals could and probably would form some sort of accord/coalition if the Tories lost their majority. If the BQ is part of the mix then it all crahses and burns because it means "making a deal with traitors who want to destroy Canada" (sic.). The only way that Harper will ever be defeated is is NDP+Liberal = a majority - and even in that case there is a chance the Liberals would go back to propping up a minority Tory government.
As for rae absurd comments about the NDP - I don't know ANYONE in the NDP who wants to be in opposition. I do know that the Liberals had a chance to be in government with the NDP in Dec. 2008 - it was the LIBERALS who decided they would rather be in opposition than be in power and have to give the NDP a few crumbs. I think that Rae either knowingly lies about the NDP or else he is caught in a time warp and can't stop seeing the federal NDP of 2011 as being the same party he was part of 30 years ago.
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:27
#86
Going back to the BQ will accomplish NOTHING.
Yes, but deal with the new reality. The BQ played a big role in convincing Quebecers that they should and could "STOP HARPER", but to the BQ's chagrin, Quebecers took a more pragmatic option. The next risk is going the next step - back to the Liberals. Don't underestimate these people and don't underestimate Bob Rae. And no need to convince me that Bob Rae is a skunk. I was "converted" to that truth long before my NDP friends were.
As for rae absurd comments about the NDP - I don't know ANYONE in the NDP who wants to be in opposition.
Rae is smart. Quebecers abandoned the Bloc because they could never be more than the opposition. He's trying to play to the same reflex now.
I do know that the Liberals had a chance to be in government with the NDP in Dec. 2008 - it was the LIBERALS who decided they would rather be in opposition than be in power and have to give the NDP a few crumbs.
No, it was Harper making some promise or threat to Ignatieff (we'll find out when the history is written some day), and Harper yanking the strings of the idiot Governor General. I know Jack wanted it to happen, but his party wasn't unanimous on that score (just check the babble threads of the time for a microcosm). Rae the liar is running with a grain of truth.
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:34
#87
Ignatieff and his camp never wanted the coalition - they PREFERRED being in opposition to having to share power with the NDP. Its as simple as that.
In 2015 when the NDP has 103 seats and the Liberals have 34 - its going to be very hard for the Liberal leader (whoever that person may be) to keep straight face while saying that people need to vote strategically for the Liberals in order to defeat the Tories.
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:36
#88
Brian Mulroney called Rae's performance last night as brilliant and said that the Liberals numbers probably increased 3 percentage points last night. G
Mon, 2011-12-05 17:54
#89
Ignatieff was "brilliant" on TLMEP a couple of days before the election as well - a lot of good it did him. Look, we all know that Rae can put on a good show on TV this is nothing new - the problem is what a miserable person he is the moment the cameras aren't rolling and his total incompetence when it comes to actually running anything - not to mention that the only principle he seems to stand for is that he should be in power (funny how often that is a common Liberal disease). If you don't believe me - look at any recent interview with Rae where he brags about the fact that he has no ideology whatsoever and doesn't believe in anything.
Mon, 2011-12-05 18:09
#90
Arthur Cramer
You know what is the most furstrating for me is the complete silence of the so-called leadership of this party as Rae is allowed to just get out there willy-nilly and say whatever the hell he wants. Where is the leadership of this party? We should be asserting the memes we want people to hear, not letting Rae have the run of the place. The leadership IS MISSING IN ACTION!
I have called Nicole Trumel's Office office twice to try and speak with her or her EA. All you ever get is an answering machine. Really, WTF! What is the matter with these people? Do they think once we have a leader that everything will go back to how it was? Really, do they really think that? I am sorry but to me it feels like the technocrats are running these things. What do you think you are going to do, administrate a win?
I am gratefull for the support in Quebec, do not take it for granted, and know we have to work to keep that support and enlarge it, but if we just keep sitting idly by, what do you think is going to happen? The media loves Bob Rae, and is more then happy to go along with this meme he is trying to create. We need to react to this idea of NDP wants to be opposition. Ther way to respose has already been provided above. Ms Trumel, you are the leader. It is time to lead. Please start speaking up. If you don't, it could cost us dearly. I am a supporter, but for crying out loud, get in the game!
Mon, 2011-12-05 18:21
#91
I'm not sure what exactly you expect her to do...she truly is interim leader - so its not like she can go around talking about what she will do as PM - and the reality is that we have a leadership contest going on and that is sucking a lot of oxygen out of the room.
I hate to say it - but i think that the only thing the NDP really can do right now is keep training the new MPs, keep the focus on the leadership contest and remember that four years from now NO ONE will remember anything about this brief interregnum.
Mon, 2011-12-05 18:59
#92
Arthur Cramer
Well Stockholm, you may be right but she should be finding some way to take a few shots at Rae, and so should some of the more experienced MPs. I don't understad the inaction. She needs to be out there, in the House and elsewhere, reminding why people voted for New Dems. I should tell you I sent her an email prior to posting this reply. The longer Rae gets away with this, the worst it is going to be.
I don't know, maybe its the ex Sailor in me, but I never backed away from a good fight.
Mon, 2011-12-05 21:05
#93
I don't understad the inaction. She needs to be out there, in the House and elsewhere, reminding why people voted for New Dems. I should tell you I sent her an email prior to posting this reply. The longer Rae gets away with this, the worst it is going to be.
I don't know, maybe its the ex Sailor in me, but I never backed away from a good fight.
The current media narrative is that Rae's on fire and we're suffering from a lack-lustre leadership campaign. The narrative 2 weeks before we won 103 seats was that Jack wasn't able to keep up on the campaign trail, no one was showing up to our events and we were headed for disaster.
I always take media narratives with a grain of salt, Arthur and so should you. Sure everything seems dire when looked at in a snapshot, but just remember we're in this for the long game - winning in 2015.
By March/April, with a new leader, you won't even remember how "awful" it was back in December.
Mon, 2011-12-05 21:58
#94
Yes, Arthur, you really let the littlest thing pull your chain. Ask yourself what would be the point of Nycole Turmel attacking Bob Rae? Would it really change a thing, or just make the 2nd place party look afraid of the 3rd place party, and look like a distraction from things real people care about. Calm down, sailor.
Mon, 2011-12-05 22:22
#95
Arthur Cramer
I guess I need to relax. I hate this "phoney war" stage we are in with the Libs. I will work on it. Oh, by the way OO, the "nautical term", is steady! (vice, calm down)
I guess you are right, they have been yanking my chain pretty strongly, we would call that roundly by the way in the Navy. If I got any of this mixed up, Malcom will fix it. The only thing that was harder to understand in my early Navy days was being underway versus making way. But that is for an entirely different thread. Lol! 
Mon, 2011-12-05 22:29
#96
Arthur Cramer
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!.....
Ok, I feel better now, 
Thanks everyone!
Mon, 2011-12-05 22:46
#97
Splicing the mainbrace works well to carry me through the dogwatch.
Mon, 2011-12-05 22:53
#98
Arthur Cramer
Aye! Wow there is terminology I haven't heard for a very long time. Am heading off to my rack now, don't have the mids for once, lol!
Cheers!
Mon, 2011-12-05 22:55
#99
Aye, aye!
Tue, 2011-12-06 00:06
#100
Nice review of Bob Rae's appearance on TLMEP by Chantal Hébert:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1097346--hebert-stak...
On Sunday, Liberal interim leader Bob Rae passed the TLMEP test with flying colours. His proficiency in French and his willingness to play the piano certainly helped. But Rae also scored when a roving camera caught him singing the words to a rendition of the Gilles Vigneault song, “Mon Pays.”
Tue, 2011-12-06 00:13
#101
Wow, a political columnist for the Red Star is plumping for the Liberals and dismissing the NDP. Stop the presses.