Dear Leader? Dead Leader. Kim Jong-il dead at 69

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Mon, 2011-12-19 10:53

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

Caissa wrote:

Unionist, the history of the twentieth century is strewn with individuals who have betrayed socialism while claiming to uphold it.

That's right, Caissa - and when we expose and denounce them and try to learn to do differently, we don't call them "Communist monarchs"

So, you think it's okay to "denounce" the North Korean regime for things that go against socialism, but it's not okay to ridicule them for having what seems to be a pretty much automatic transfer of power from father to son? I mean, that's the REASON people call them a "communist monarchy". It's not just some spurious charge cooked up by the CIA.

Mon, 2011-12-19 10:53

#53

6079_Smith_W

Look Unionist, that wrinkled military garb and haircut were his choice and his costume, not because that was the only thing they had at the factory.

What political figures wear IS often significant, especially in a case like this.

There are pictures of his dad in uniform too, but he managed to run a war, impose his rule on a country, and still have a few other things in his wardrobe.

And yes, of course what happens there next is important, but frankly, is there any indication that anything at all is going to change?

Geez, one would think we had never heard of blue sweaters or "mission accomplished" flight suits.

Mon, 2011-12-19 10:56

#54

Unionist

voice of the damned wrote:

Post #2 said that "junior would step up to the plate". Meaning that the Kim Jong Eun would likely inherit his father's job.

Yeah. It went on to humorously hurl "imperialist!" and "sectarian!" against anyone who disagrees. That kind of "humour" is worthy of Sara Palin. Or didn't you read the full post?

Quote:
Post #3 suggested that dynastic succession is not really in keeping with the traditions of people who think in terms of "immutable laws of history"

Sure it did. Or maybe it just picked up on the theme that "communism" is the same as dictatorial dynastic anti-democratic rule. Sara Palin.

Quote:
Post #8 ridiculed the fashion sense of certain Communist regimes.

Right. It's called anti-communism, xenophobia, stereotyping. But it's ok, you're doing it too, so I guess majority rules.

It's all about as appropriate as writing stories on the day of Jack's funeral about his Stalin-esque moustache and his trip to the "massage" parlour, and joking about "some socialist he was!"

But it's all good. Because when you ridicule whoever the MSM paints as the current rogue gallery, there is no social downside. What's harder to see is the culture that it reflects, the dehumanization, the xenophobia, the preparation for war. Or maybe Libya and Afghanistan are too far in the past, and Iran and Korea will never happen.

ETA: Sorry VOTD, we cross-posted. Word of advice: Don't bother cross-examining me in an effort to worm out of me some support for the vicious DPRK regime. It's a fun game I'm sure, but it won't work.

Mon, 2011-12-19 11:01

#55

Slumberjack

I wonder if the flowers look sad, or if they've temporarily retracted their petals. Anyone picking anything up from state television?

Mon, 2011-12-19 11:23

#56

CDN_FORCES

The son is in his 20's so there's a good chance he's been exposed to modern influences (World of Warcraft, file sharing, pot, Facebook, manga, Google Earth). He might not be as messed up and ideologically driven as his dad. If we're lucky he might turn out to be a bit of a slacker, like a loveable Owen Wilson-character.

Mon, 2011-12-19 11:24

#57

voice of the damned

Yeah. It went on to humorously hurl "imperialist!" and "sectarian!" against anyone who disagrees. That kind of "humour" is worthy of Sara Palin. Or didn't you read the full post?

I think you're confusing your posts here. BCD didn't say anything like that. He just said that the story was on satellite TV, and that there might be another thread about it. And he speculated that Kim Jong Eun would be next in line.

Right. It's called anti-communism, xenophobia, stereotyping. But it's ok, you're doing it too, so I guess majority rules.

(sorry, bad formatting. This is part of my reply:)I don't think it's stereotyping to look at Stalin-era art and say "Gee, that's pretty awful stuff". That's the art that the regime put on public display, so that's what they wanted people to associate them with. I'm not gonna pretend its Piccasso-quality just to be on the opposite side of Ronald Reagan.

I guess my sentiments could be harnessed for anti-communist ends. But I'm assuming that most Cold Warriors could have figured out that socialist realism isn't quite the cat's meow without my help.

ETA: Sorry VOTD, we cross-posted. Word of advice: Don't bother cross-examining me in an effort to worm out of me some support for the vicious DPRK regime. It's a fun game I'm sure, but it won't work.

(more bad formatting. This is me again:)I wasn't trying to accuse you of supporting the NK regime. I was just kinda wondering why you think YOUR criticism of the regime is okay, but are taking a firm line against other peoples.

Like for example "...the vicious DPRK regime". Isn't that the kind thing that Sarah Palin would say?

Mon, 2011-12-19 11:32

#58

Unionist

voice of the damned wrote:

Yeah. It went on to humorously hurl "imperialist!" and "sectarian!" against anyone who disagrees. That kind of "humour" is worthy of Sara Palin. Or didn't you read the full post?

I think you're confusing your posts here. BCD didn't say anything like that. He just said that the story was on satellite TV, and that there might be another thread about it. And he speculated that Kim Jong Eun would be next in line.

I'm not talking about BCD. I'm talking about [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/dear-leader-dead... post that has the #2 symbol attached[/url]. That's what I said.

Quote:
I don't think it's stereotyping to look at Stalin-era art and say "Gee, that's pretty awful stuff".

No, but if on the day of Stalin's death, you say: "Ha! Communist art! Look at it! Don't like it? You're an imperialist running-dog!!! Hahaha!" That's a little different. That warms the heart of Sara Palin.

Quote:
Like for example "...the vicious DPRK regime". Isn't that the kind thing that Sarah Palin would say?

Maybe. But I wouldn't say "those look-alike Communist monarchs and their subjects". But I think, at this juncture, if you really haven't understood my point, we'll have to simply agree to misunderstand each other.

Mon, 2011-12-19 11:50

#59

voice of the damned

I think a better example would be if you said that on the day that Nazi Germany attaked Russia. Because that was an attack on the whole nation, and the ridicule of the art could be construed as part of anti-Soviet propaganda.

But saying it on the day that Stalin died? That day wasn't really a tragedy for anyone but Stalin and the people who were misguided enough to love him. And since he's the guy who sponsored all that bad art, well, shoe fits etc.

And, oh yes. I wasn't hip to the numbering system of the posts. (Good thing I didn't lay in with "Hey, learn to count, Unionist!!") Thanks.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:14

#60

6079_Smith_W

Japan offered condelensces, but is preparing for the unexpected. Apparently NK has fired test missiles right over their country in the past.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/korea-north-japan-spokesman-id...

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:18

#61

Sven

Caissa wrote:

Are Iraqui's better off in the post-Saddam era? I think the answer is probably "no". Libyan's in the post-Gaddaffi era? The jury is still out but the answer might be "no". We yet to have any idea of the DPRK post- Kim Jong-Il.

It would be quite the trick if the next leader of North Korea could make things worse post-Kim Jong-Il than they already are.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:20

#62

contrarianna

Unionist wrote:

I think we need some threads making fun of ....Christopher Hitchens ...

That shouldn't be controversial.

Hitchens delighted in the death of his foes--slagging both the newly dead and the dying, (including allies he had betrayed--especially disgusting were his attacks on his "friend", the gentle Edward Said ).

He merits one of his own grave-dancing one-liners, both as a tribute to his considerable wit, and as a fitting memorial to his faux integrity:

"If you gave him an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox".

(originally said at Jerry Falwell's death)

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:24

#63

Boom Boom

CNN reports South Korea is on high alert, fearing a war either by accident or on purpose.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:26

#64

Doug

Unionist wrote:

Did you read the disgusting juvenile thread title?

Gosh, I've been rude to a totalitarian. How can I forgive myself? I forgive myself! That was easy. Now I think I'll spend a few minutes looking at Kim Jong Il looking at things.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:37

#65

Doug

CDN_FORCES wrote:

The son is in his 20's so there's a good chance he's been exposed to modern influences (World of Warcraft, file sharing, pot, Facebook, manga, Google Earth). He might not be as messed up and ideologically driven as his dad. If we're lucky he might turn out to be a bit of a slacker, like a loveable Owen Wilson-character.

Are western-educated dictators better behaved? That's three good reasons not to think that may make a difference.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:38

#66

Slumberjack

No one should have to apologize for slagging Kim Jong-il and the regime, or Hitchens, Falwell, Havel, Mother Teresa, etc. The west likes to use imagery and stories about NK as part of its long running public service campaign about the evils of communism. It doesn't mean we should start printing up t-shirts in solidarity. He was like the Jim Jones of the Korean peninsula.

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:48

#67

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Japan offered condelensces, but is preparing for the unexpected. Apparently NK has fired test missiles right over their country in the past.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/korea-north-japan-spokesman-id...

Oh fuck, we'd better do a preemptive invasion. South Korea is on high alert too, which proves that the North is getting ready to launch yet another war of aggression. With their WMD.

As long as we're sending fighter aircraft and flotillas in that general direction, might as well take down that bunch in Tehran too. Look at their record of aggression. Do we need to wait for them to actually do something crazy?

Mon, 2011-12-19 12:52

#68

Catchfire

Slumberjack wrote:
The west likes to use imagery and stories about NK as part of its long running public service campaign about the evils of communism.

North Korea in the Western media is basically a tour de force of Othering--for the reason SJ mentions, and also the fact that the countless ways the West constructs a narrative of cartoonish evil has become an acceptable way to marginalize non-Westerners in historically Orientalist ways. I don't see much sympathy for the North Korean people in any of it, and it personally leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think threads like this are particularly in the spirit of babble, but I appear to be in the minority here, so carry on and have your fun for 35 more posts or so.

Mon, 2011-12-19 13:12

#69

Caissa

Official KCNA coverage: http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng

Mon, 2011-12-19 13:18

#70

Unionist

I think we have to pay close attention to the phenomenon whereby some people in the progressive ranks demonize exactly the same people, at exactly the same periods of history, that are demonized by Anglo-American-Canadian imperialism.

It's not orchestrated, it's not a plot. It's just culture. We've seen it on babble for years. Hatred and ridicule for Castro, Chavez, Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Ahmadinejab, Kim, Mugabe, Beijing, Hamas, Hezbollah, ... Right or left, atheist or religious, a little bit evil or very evil or no proof of evil - none of it matters - it's whoever's picture is in the rogues' gallery at the time. And yeah, nothing bad about e.g. Gaddafi until he suddenly became Hitler #2, plotting "genocide" against (wait for it) his own people.

Catchfire points to the marginalization of non-Westerners. That's a big part of it. It may even be an essential common thread in this era. And in my experience and viewpoint, the demonization (or "other-ization") of the leaders goes hand in hand with the dehumanization or infantilization of the populations. And it necessarily is accompanied by silence, or excuses, with regard to other tyrants who are not - yet - in the firing line.

This really isn't about left, right, or centre. It's about a culture that is utterly indispensable in order to consolidate the rule of the mighty 1% and be constantly prepared to divert, distract, or destroy any potential threat to that power.

We designated babble as "anti-imperialist" in order to try to address some of the excesses (thanks Catchfire and whoever else pushed for this). But you don't defeat the biggest cultural offensive in history just by declaring it dead.

Mon, 2011-12-19 13:47

#71

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Japan offered condelensces, but is preparing for the unexpected. Apparently NK has fired test missiles right over their country in the past.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/19/korea-north-japan-spokesman-id...

Oh fuck, we'd better do a preemptive invasion. South Korea is on high alert too, which proves that the North is getting ready to launch yet another war of aggression. With their WMD.

As long as we're sending fighter aircraft and flotillas in that general direction, might as well take down that bunch in Tehran too. Look at their record of aggression. Do we need to wait for them to actually do something crazy?

Not to leap to any conclusions about anything happening at all, but I just heard reports on CBC that NK fired a test missile this morning.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:14

#72

6079_Smith_W

In other news, the U.N. General Assembly has passed a motion of condemnation against NK for human rights abuses. The timing is a coincidence, as the vote had been scheduled for today. Again, no online source yet. I just heard it on the CBC hourly news.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:16

#73

Todrick of Chat...

Statement by New Democrat Leader Nycole Turmel on the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-nycole-turmel-on-death-kim-jong-il

Today the world marks the death of a dictator. New Democrats join those worldwide who hope that the future will see an end to the tyranny and repression that North Korean people have suffered for far too long.

With the passing of Kim Jong-il, the people of North Korea face great uncertainty. Very little is known about the new leader and it is difficult to predict what will happen in the days and months ahead.

The horrors Kim Jong-il visited on his own people and his threats to global peace cannot be forgotten. We urge the Canadian government to work with Canada's allies on the diplomatic front to ensure stability in the Korean Peninsula.

In the long term, we hope the end of Kim Jong-il's life will bring about a new beginning for democracy and prosperity for the people of North Korea. We share the hopes of millions of Koreans from north and south to see peace and reconciliation on the Korean peninsula.

It is nice the leader of the NDP to declare what world leaders are dictators, and threats to world peace.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:19

#74

Slumberjack

She should have stopped where the line ended with....'cannot be forgotten.'

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:24

#75

Slumberjack

Unionist wrote:
And in my experience and viewpoint, the demonization (or "other-ization") of the leaders goes hand in hand with the dehumanization or infantilization of the populations.

This really isn't about left, right, or centre.

In the mainstream media, I would agree that this tactic grooms the target audience to accept horrendous civilian casualties as the price of conducting the business of freedom and democracy, or dispensing just desserts as is occasionally the want of self described exceptional societies. But we're mostly discussing Kim Jong-il and his regime amongst ourselves. Satire always seems to be a touchy thing when someone dies, doesn't it? Are we transposing some of our innate discomfort in that regard with the condition of the North Korean people, against any urge we might have to dance on his grave? Are you saying we're not sophisticated enough in our own understanding to know what we should abhor, wherever it exists?...that we either run the risk of falling, or have fallen victim to the mainstream narrative?

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:29

#76

Unionist

Slumberjack wrote:
But we're mostly discussing Kim Jong-il and his regime amongst ourselves.

Do you think those who make fun of the (real or imagined) commies on babble would be far more discreet and sensitive with non-babblers?

Quote:
Satire always seems to be an touchy thing when someone dies, doesn't it? Are we transposing some of our innate discomfort in that regard with the condition of the North Korean people, against any urge we might have to dance on his grave?

Well, my concern, as I think I've made clear, is that we should not be playing to the imperialist agenda.

Quote:
Are you saying we're not sophisticated enough in our own understanding to know what we should abhor, wherever it exists?

I was just reporting an observed phenomena, and I gave a list of names (Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, etc. etc.). Perhaps someone can provide a reason why no one was satirizing Gaddafi before February of this year... Maybe because he wasn't "news"? And who makes the "news"?

Quote:
...that we either run the risk of falling, or have fallen victim to the mainstream narrative?

Philosophers have long understood that all of us are victims of the mainstream narrative. The point, however, is to change it.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:32

#77

Unionist

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Statement by New Democrat Leader Nycole Turmel on the death of Kim Jong-il

Thanks for posting this before I worked up the stomach to go look for it, Todrick.

This piece of shit (oh, sorry Mr. Speaker!) Turmel fits in very nicely with the tone here. Trouble is, she makes no pretence of "satire". It's just trying to prove to the Canadian people that a vote for the NDP will not much alter the bloodthirsty warmongering agenda of Harper and Baird.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:33

#78

Todrick of Chat...

Statement from NDP Leader on death of former Czech president, Vaclav Havel

http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-from-ndp-leader-on-death-former-czech-president-vaclav-havel

It was with great sadness that I learned about the death Sunday of ex-Czech president, Vaclav Havel, following a long illness at the age of 75.

He was the craftsman of the 1989 anti-communist "velvet revolution" and became president of Czechoslovakia and of the Czech Republic from 1989 to 2003.

A hero for peace and democracy, he successfully led his country's transition from communist regime to democracy. His fight against the communist regime put him behind bars on three occasions, but he never stopped fighting for his beliefs. It was under his leadership that the country joined NATO and the EU. After leaving office, he devoted his life to fighting for human rights in various countries. Mr. Havel was also a writer and playwright.

He is an inspiration for all of us, as someone who always fought for what he believed in.

On behalf of the whole NDP team, I would like to express my sincere condolences to Mr. Havel's family and friends and acknowledge his important contribution to democracy in Europe.

Just for shits and giggles here is the exact opposite message from the NDP Leader on another death.

What does the NDP stand for, it seems the message changes with every new propaganda ... I mean press release.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:36

#79

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Oh fuck, we'd better do a preemptive invasion. South Korea is on high alert too, which proves that the North is getting ready to launch yet another war of aggression. With their WMD.

As long as we're sending fighter aircraft and flotillas in that general direction, might as well take down that bunch in Tehran too. Look at their record of aggression. Do we need to wait for them to actually do something crazy?

Not to leap to any conclusions about anything happening at all, but I just heard reports on CBC that NK fired a test missile this morning.

See? What did I tell you? You people are wasting time making your dumb jokes when we should be preparing the preemptive defensive annihilation of North Korea.

Both surviving civilians will shower us with garlands to thank us for delivering Christianity to their shores.

What are we waiting for?

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:39

#80

Unionist

Hey Todrick, you forgot to highlight the most important achievement for which Turmel praises Havel:

Nycole Turmel wrote:
It was under his leadership that the country joined NATO and the EU.

Today's NDP - bringing you refurbished Cold War military and economic alliances for a wealthier future for the 1%.

Mon, 2011-12-19 14:54

#81

Todrick of Chat...

Opps my bad. I though I did highlight that piece. It is truly amazing the current state of the NDP.

Mon, 2011-12-19 18:06

#82

Doug

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Statement by New Democrat Leader Nycole Turmel on the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-nycole-turmel-on-death-kim-jong-il

Today the world marks the death of a dictator. New Democrats join those worldwide who hope that the future will see an end to the tyranny and repression that North Korean people have suffered for far too long.

With the passing of Kim Jong-il, the people of North Korea face great uncertainty. Very little is known about the new leader and it is difficult to predict what will happen in the days and months ahead.

The horrors Kim Jong-il visited on his own people and his threats to global peace cannot be forgotten. We urge the Canadian government to work with Canada's allies on the diplomatic front to ensure stability in the Korean Peninsula.

In the long term, we hope the end of Kim Jong-il's life will bring about a new beginning for democracy and prosperity for the people of North Korea. We share the hopes of millions of Koreans from north and south to see peace and reconciliation on the Korean peninsula.

It is nice the leader of the NDP to declare what world leaders are dictators, and threats to world peace.

What of this is wrong and how? Dictator? Check. Tyranny/repression? Check. Horrors on own people? Check. Threat to global peace? Check-ish. More of a threat to regional peace except to the extent that a real military conflict would drag in larger powers. Not alone in that status either but it's his obituary we're talking about, not other world leaders'. Working for stability diplomatically? The horror!

Mon, 2011-12-19 18:12

#83

Doug

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Not to leap to any conclusions about anything happening at all, but I just heard reports on CBC that NK fired a test missile this morning.

Not surprising and only slightly worrisome rather than alarming. NK tends to do that every so often just to say "Hi! We're still here and we're nuclear, remember?"

Mon, 2011-12-19 19:11

#84

Unionist

Babble - anti-imperialist - what a fucking joke.

Mon, 2011-12-19 19:14

#85

Erik Redburn

Doug wrote:

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Statement by New Democrat Leader Nycole Turmel on the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-nycole-turmel-on-death-kim-jong-il

Today the world marks the death of a dictator. New Democrats join those worldwide who hope that the future will see an end to the tyranny and repression that North Korean people have suffered for far too long.

With the passing of Kim Jong-il, the people of North Korea face great uncertainty. Very little is known about the new leader and it is difficult to predict what will happen in the days and months ahead.

The horrors Kim Jong-il visited on his own people and his threats to global peace cannot be forgotten. We urge the Canadian government to work with Canada's allies on the diplomatic front to ensure stability in the Korean Peninsula.

In the long term, we hope the end of Kim Jong-il's life will bring about a new beginning for democracy and prosperity for the people of North Korea. We share the hopes of millions of Koreans from north and south to see peace and reconciliation on the Korean peninsula.

It is nice the leader of the NDP to declare what world leaders are dictators, and threats to world peace.

What of this is wrong and how? Dictator? Check. Tyranny/repression? Check. Horrors on own people? Check. Threat to global peace? Check-ish. More of a threat to regional peace except to the extent that a real military conflict would drag in larger powers. Not alone in that status either but it's his obituary we're talking about, not other world leaders'. Working for stability diplomatically? The horror!

I'm shocked Doug, you're letting objective facts get in the way of the proper dialectical opposition. You'll never get your kewl Rabble.ca (tm) Che Guevara t-shirt (with complimentary Cuban cigar case -tobacco not included) if you keep up this unhealthy attachment to reality.

Mon, 2011-12-19 19:28

#86

Catchfire

Hey Erik, while I can't do much about the amount of anti-imperialist politics babblers choose to bring or not to bring to any given conversation, mocking the politics which should be providing the basis for discussion (e.g. one that doesn't start with the assumption that the West is an unequivocal force of good in the world and that it's enemies are evil) is definitely not allowed. So that line of discussion can just end right here.

Mon, 2011-12-19 19:45

#87

Erik Redburn

Excuse me, mocking other Babblers arguments is not permitted here?? Where exactly does it say that in the rules, and when exactly has this been enforced here? Or do you mean that only SOME political beliefs are untouchable here? I ask this as a social democrat in good standing.

Mon, 2011-12-19 19:52

#88

Todrick of Chat...

Erik, no offence take here by your post.

Mon, 2011-12-19 20:06

#89

Slumberjack

Erik Redburn wrote:
I ask this as a social democrat in good standing.

Judging from our familiarity with it, all the more reason for some type of intervention.

Mon, 2011-12-19 20:09

#90

Erik Redburn

Thank you. I wasn't really being all that serious anyhow. OF course Havel has been overhyped in the Western press, and the NDP should be more careful about following the prevailing sentiments.

There, now the balance has again been restored, as was said in greater Narnia....

Mon, 2011-12-19 20:25

#91

CDN_FORCES

Unionist wrote:

This thread, and the sentiments expressed in it, have nothing to do with solidarity with the people of North Korea -

Funny, because the Kims never showed any solidarity towards the people of North Korea. The clearest example is their physical state, while millions of their less fortunate compatriots are walking scarecrows reliant on food aid from Europe and China.

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:28

#92

Catchfire

Erik Redburn wrote:
Excuse me, mocking other Babblers arguments is not permitted here?? Where exactly does it say that in the rules, and when exactly has this been enforced here? Or do you mean that only SOME political beliefs are untouchable here? I ask this as a social democrat in good standing.

To repeat: mocking radical politcs and red-baiting is not allowed on babble, nor has it for well beyond since I've been a mod. As should be clear, this is quite a different prospect than "mocking other babblers' arguments."

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:38

#93

Polunatic2

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:39

#94

Glenl

An honest question Catchfire, is there a list of "radical political ideologies" that are off limits? I'm not being facetious. I know mocking Canadian politics is fair game, just trying to get a handle on the rules.

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:47

#95

Catchfire

Glenl wrote:
An honest question Catchfire, is there a list of "radical political ideologies" that are off limits? I'm not being facetious. I know mocking Canadian politics is fair game, just trying to get a handle on the rules.

A good rule of thumb would be not to mock the politics of another babbler. But in case this proves too difficult, you can check out our babble policy statement here:

Quote:
rabble.ca is a public, independent, progressive news and information source. In defining itself as "progressive," rabble.ca embraces a pro-human rights, pro-feminist, anti-racist, queer-positive, anti-imperialist and pro-labour stance, and as such encourages discussions which develop and expand progressive thought....

babble is NOT intended as a place where the basic and fundamental values of human rights, feminism, anti-racism and labour rights are to be debated or refought.

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:50

#96

Glenl

Thanks. I was just trying to get some context from what I had read, I will read it all again. Sorry for the thread drift.

Mon, 2011-12-19 21:57

#97

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Judging from the news feeds from South Korea I think what South Korea is more worried about is the young Kim running into trouble with some of the older generals and the in-fighting results in some kind of provocation distraction against the south.

While satellite TV shows the ROK forces are on high alert they also showing ROK military and government officials emphasizing the ROK forces ARE NOT on attack posture. The forward defense brigades have moved into their defensive positions consisting of premade bunkers, pillboxes and trenched in fighting positions at a of depth up to 25 kilometers behind the boarder. The best thing for both Koreas for now is for the young Kim to stabilize power and take control of the government there. The South Koreans are waiting to see what kind of leader he's going to turn out to be. Hopefully he won't be a puppet for the generals whom want conflict with the south (and there are some still there).

Time will tell.

Mon, 2011-12-19 22:07

#98

Bookish Agrarian

Mon, 2011-12-19 22:07

#99

6079_Smith_W

According to an professor interviewed on As It Happens tonight, who is familiar with NK (and who lived there for a time) the country is already under the direction of a security committee, of which Kim Jong Il's brother in law is a senior and well established member.

So presumably unless someone plans on putting on an amateur production of Richard III there is little reason to be concerned that things are much less stable than they were last Friday.

Although I heard another commentator on the radio today talking about the "medieval" power struggle that is presumably going on behind the scenes. No sources, names or background, of course.

Mon, 2011-12-19 22:46

#100

clambake

Catchfire wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:
Excuse me, mocking other Babblers arguments is not permitted here?? Where exactly does it say that in the rules, and when exactly has this been enforced here? Or do you mean that only SOME political beliefs are untouchable here? I ask this as a social democrat in good standing.

To repeat: mocking radical politcs and red-baiting is not allowed on babble, nor has it for well beyond since I've been a mod. As should be clear, this is quite a different prospect than "mocking other babblers' arguments."

I'm trying to figure out how Erik was mocking 'radical politics' when Unionist made the unusual assertion that calling Kim Jong-Il a dictator = pro-imperalism.

Mon, 2011-12-19 23:12

#101

howeird beale

you wont get an answer from Cathfire on that one Clam. Its enough in their mind to state that one has done something without providing grounds for specifically how or why.

Catch lacks the courage, the facility and the wit to defend their calls. The only facility at which Catch is adept is at making the snide and snotty remarks which reflect the vacuity in which they stagger.

What Catch deems is off limits is off limits.

We warrant no explanation as to why.

Catch lacks all ability to explain why.

Quit, Catch.

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