If that isn't self - depracating, what is?
:
Saganash's leadership prospects
Thu, 2012-01-05 03:00
#52
RevolutionPlease
Thu, 2012-01-05 07:51
#53
There’s been something that has been bothering about this thread and the discussion. It is based on a sense of despair that nothing will ever change. That nothing can change. I don’t believe it.
Bit of thread drift here, because I think the 'activist approach question' is moot as far as Romeo's campaign goes.
But on that general question digging into 'hard realities' does not equal despair, nor necessarily lead to dropping things because they are 'too hard'. And NOT digging into the hard realities has its costs too. Leaving it at only 'lets do this' means that you forgo the chance to be prepared for some obstacles, and it is hard on morale over the haul of 10 to 50 years of activism.
That said, thinking about it a bit, I cannot see that there is anything useful that can be done by Romeo's campaign around how people will deal with Romeo the obviously aboriginal person. And I say that knowing that Obama's campaign put a great deal of energy and thought and hard research into how to neutralize the effects of racism on his candidacy.... HOW to overcome the racism in those legions of white swing Dem/Rep voters who did ultimately vote for him. And they did that work all the way from early in his nomination campaign, through to election day.
Because as far as a campaign within the NDP goes, I think its pretty simple:
Countering the negative narrative that Romeo cannot win because he is aboriginal, is bound to be like trying to argue in rational discursive terms any other negative narrative that comes your way... you cannot win that way. And the attempt will just feed the narrative's effectiveness.
You go around negative narratives. Even blunting it is done largely or wholy through indirect means. In this case, narratives that have nothing to do with race and being aboriginal. [Which is a reason by the way that Romeo needs to be careful about how much and when he launches from his overcoming adversity narrative. It is a very good 'hook' and it is a lot of who Romeo is and what he has to say- but it is a double edged sword for him.]
Thu, 2012-01-05 07:57
#54
This whole discussion may be a wandering and complicated way of expressing of what I thought as soon as I saw the thread title:
"This can't help Romeo."
Unless its a cathartic or reflective thing that even enthusiastic supporters need to work through for themselves.
Thu, 2012-01-05 08:20
#55
Blunting the effects of racism on decisions of the universe of potential supporters looks in a general way something like this:
Understanding the operative racism in a general way does no good beyond helping you get at what you need. In a campaign you can do zero about the bigger picture of racism as it effects your candidate.
And besides, your target audience is people who "only" have the standard racist images and narratives mixed in with values that connect with your candidates appeal. You simply are not intereste in the people who would not vote for an Indian [and too few of them ever vote NDP to be worrying about them anyway].
So you sit down and 'unpack' all those racist images and narratives- make them as concrete as you can. Pictures and really basic concepts.
Then you set about looking for qualities in your candidate that are the opposite of those negative tropes. Build them up, and draw attention to them. It is a natural reaction for the candidate to feel like a lot of that is acting. Work with him on that. Work these alternative images and narratives into media and publicity.
Also take a look at what might be inadvertently playing into the negatives that you are working to blunt. The most obvious example of that is Romeo's story of overcoming adversity. Because the 'overcoming' part you want is pulling a caboose of Indians as victims that runs completely counter to the job description of Leader. So you think about how much and when and how Romeo brings out that part of his biography.
None of this requires in the least tarnishing the authenticity and sponataneity that is a big part of Romeo's appeal. For one thing, the senior campaign people are the ones that do the work, not Romeo. They work on it a lot, and present him with options.
Thu, 2012-01-05 10:27
#56
writer
I do hate this thread title, and was extremely ambivalent about posting at all. I find it somewhat offensive that we're announcing Romeo can't possibly win in the aboriginal issues and culture forum. What kind of message is that? Not a progressive one, at the very least. Certainly not an empowering one.
As a result, I think this will be my last comment here. Otherwise, what BA said. Beautifully.
Thu, 2012-01-05 11:06
#57
I do hate this thread title, and was extremely ambivalent about posting at all.
I agree about the thread title - but we know it was posted in frustration by RP, and that it nonetheless addresses an issue which needs to be aired. I'm really encouraged by the direction of some of the comments here, and I'm grateful to you (writer) in particular for pointing us to some important information about Saganash's life and work.
All this to say, that I think the better course is to ask the mods to change the thread title to something like, "Romeo Saganash's leadership prospects" - if that's ok with you and others. I don't want to lose your voice or others' here, nor have to hunt around different threads while there's still something important to be said on this precise topic.
Thu, 2012-01-05 12:35
#58
I understand RP's choice but agree that another thread title is in order. Upon request, I have made that change.
Thu, 2012-01-05 19:18
#59
Ahem, Ken:
I feel as if you're talking to me as if I don't have any awareness of the situation at all.
I still don't get the sense that anything I have said (or anyone else, for that matter) has registered with you.
Thu, 2012-01-05 19:46
#60
laine lowe
Romeo Saganash on the Next Election
An example of how it's possible to communicate priorities and vision without putting others down ... in fact, while *raising others up*.
Thanks for this link, writer. The more I see him speak, the more convinced I am of his potential to win and change political discourse in this country.
I would love to see more public endorsements.
Thu, 2012-01-05 19:51
#61
writer
Romeo Saganash on the Next Election
An example of how it's possible to communicate priorities and vision without putting others down ... in fact, while *raising others up*.
Edited to add: Thanks so much for the title change. It means a lot!
Thu, 2012-01-05 19:55
#62
writer
Honestly? I'm more excited by a groundswell than endorsements from on high. I'm more interested in a party of the people than followers taking cues from powerbrokers. Endorsements are nice, don't get me wrong. Popular movement? Nicer.
Thu, 2012-01-05 20:03
#63
laine lowe
When I say public endorsements, I mean from well-recognized and respected people who are not politicians or powerbrokers, writer. I'd like to see artists, environmentalists, youth groups and many other activists endorse him.
Thu, 2012-01-05 20:04
#64
writer
Ah! Me too! Want to do some brainstorming in private?
Thu, 2012-01-05 21:08
#65
An example of how it's possible to communicate priorities and vision without putting others down ... in fact, while *raising others up*.
He. Is. Good.
Fri, 2012-01-06 04:53
#66
RevolutionPlease
Thanks for changing the title. I apologize for my frustration. I just thought it needed to be talked about. #nativeguyproblems
Thanks for the link writer.
In the future, don't hesitate to change my thread titles if I haven't put enough thought into them. I'm not a good writer but I put a tonne of thought into this thread topic and seeing some of the progress that has been made and where we have to go.
Fri, 2012-01-06 09:29
#67
It's all good, RP, and thank you for opening this discussion. Things about Saganash have started penetrating my thick skull that wouldn't have done so, but for what I've seen on babble. And I sense it happening to other babblers too. It shows how pervasive the propaganda of the MSM and indeed the whole culture is, even (or maybe especially) when it's just their extremely effective Wall of Silence.
Fri, 2012-01-06 09:55
#68
Boom Boom
Romeo Saganash on FB just now:
"It's unfortunate that one of the very first programs that Harper cut was the preservation of Aboriginal languages in the country."
Fri, 2012-01-06 10:09
#69
writer
https://www.facebook.com/RomeoSaganash
(This is a quote that comes from a question and answer about the preservation of Aboriginal languages. He also talks about what is needed to keep languages alive, and mentions that, as prime minister, he'd put the program back in place.)
Fri, 2012-01-06 11:10
#70
I belive that too, Bookish A, but I don't agree with your analysis. There's been a reason he's being IGNORED in the media. You can debate that until the cows come home but it's true. What do we do? We keep questioning why? Pardon my youth, but WTF? I refuse to be naive and hopeless, real NDP'ers(not a purity test)should be enthused. What has he said that is so controversial? I saw your words in another thread and really appreciated them BA. We should expect so much of our leaders. Yes, Romeo talks slow, that's how elders speak. Canadians don't understand that. And that's where my premise for the thread comes from. I'm not naive, but I'm not angry. I'm hopeful, optomistic and full of love. That's how we come together. Hopefully, BA, we can come to some consensus that Romeo is being ignored to the benefit of others. Benefit of others being my key words, if you get my drift. Sorry for starting such a contentious thread but it is my firm belief, I'll get onto my second choice soon.
Absoultly agree that the media narrative should be questioned. And I understand your frustration.
My comments had much more to do with the borderline offensive comments made by some that re-enforced that narrative. I am getting more than tired of those kinds of interventions in general, but mostly in terms of Romeo's candidacy. Comments that are subltly implying that we should abandon support for Romeo because you can't beat that narrative. I don't agree that should be a consideration in any way. I think Romeo's qualities and views are exactly what we should be supporting and incidently are the road forward to removing Harper from government in 2015.
Sat, 2012-01-07 14:07
#71
writer
On a more positive note, I am reposting the link to a feature that some here might not have had the chance to see yet. I think it reveals some of the qualities and views that are so appealing about Romeo. Also some of his character, determination and humble, powerful ambition.
"Running with Romeo" is just under 1/2 an hour, and it's well worth the time. This CBC program is in Cree & French with English subtitles.
Sat, 2012-01-07 14:24
#72
What writer said. Watch the video.
Sat, 2012-01-07 20:39
#73
I think Romeo's qualities and views are exactly what we should be supporting and incidently are the road forward to removing Harper from government in 2015.
I agree that Romeo has great qualities, and I want to support him. But I am very concerned about his ability to present himself in English, and that he needs to have a "mean streak" that would be very well targeted at Harper. I remember his performance in the English portion of the NDP debate, and if he's stumbling that much in a friendly crowd, how much more so will he with Harper trying to rip him apart? It would be a shame if these difficulties prevent Romeo from doing well, as I believe he has a great deal to offer.
Sat, 2012-01-07 21:50
#74
writer
You do know that he had bronchitis that day, yes?
As for this being able to face down bullies. How about playing a role developing an international declaration that the governments of Canada, the U.S., Australia and New Zealand band together to defeat? With representatives from those countries aggressively trying to convince the world that the declaration should not be supported.
How about going to representatives of countries around the world, countering the opposition of the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
How about persuading the majority of the countries on Earth to support your declaration, despite being challenged by such forceful, powerful foes?
Because that's what Romeo did. And that's why the UN passed the International Declaration of Indigenous Rights. A declaration Canada has since signed on to. He did it with intelligence, generosity and sound argument. Not with a "mean streak".
Harper? Peanuts.
Personally, I've had enough with mean streaks dominating our culture. You?
Sat, 2012-01-07 22:20
#75
I don't think we need meaness. What we need is an internal toughness (although I am not sure that is the word I want) Romeo has demonstrated it through out his career. Going up against a mean-spirited Harper in 2015 with our own version of meanness will not provide us with a breathrough in the areas we need to in order to defeat them. We are fast approaching 50 per cent of us not voting. We will get there if we continue with this alpha wolf politics that is turning people off. I believe strongly that Romeo can provide a counterpoint to the meanness motiff. That's what I am looking for.
I believe others in the race could provide it as well, but Romeo, for me at least, has the whole package.
And what writer said.
Sat, 2012-01-07 22:30
#76
What BA and writer said - with regard to Romeo's style and character, anyway. I don't much care about his "platform" (i.e., I don't know what it is). If his history, his record, his struggle, his direction are with the interests of the people, he'll do just fine. And so far, I'm more than impressed on that score - thanks to some people here pointing me in the right direction.
Sat, 2012-01-07 22:51
#77
writer
Thank you, Unionist.
I try to imagine being a small child, 6 maybe, and being taken away from my family. Being forced into a far-away school where my language isn't spoken. I pick up the new language, but I do not speak it, not a word. For 2 years. I am angry. I want to go home.
Then one day, I am called into the principal's office. I am told that my father has died. I am told there is no money to send me back for the funeral. And I understand that this is where I'll be for a while. And I begin to speak.
How tough is Harper to face, after an experience like that? How tough am I? And how miraculous is it that I do not have a mean streak? Instead, I have a life-long need to address social injustices like those my family, my people and I survived. A commitment to human rights. An understanding of how cultures live. And die.
Harper is a child of Leaside – still playing games with toy soldiers – in comparison.
Sat, 2012-01-07 23:25
#78
laine lowe
Great posts writer and BA.
I love the term "alpha wolf politics" - that really does describe the toxic tone set by Harper. What Harper and his minions did to Dion was publicly sanctioned bullying. How they behave day in and out is ugly. I'm all for standing up to abusers and tyrants but not by playing along with such bully tactics. Like BA pointed out, we have less and less people voting because it's hard to respect these politicians and believe that they are in Parliament to represent you.
Romeo has something that is very appealing, a refreshing change of pace that I think could be very much appreciated by voters, especially younger people who are fed up with the bullshit. And I agree with whomever said that the Harper gang would be hard pressed to find a negative angle to campaign against him without looking like racist a**holes.
It's up to the membership to decide who they want to lead them but I think they would be really foolish to dismiss Romeo as a non credible contender. He's still my first choice. He seems to personify integrity. And that in itself is more convincing that any words about platform promises.
writer, you so nailed what incredible toughness, courage, it takes to live through that and still be so generous and compassionate to others. It's a state of mind that leads to respectful resolution as opposed to show of force.
Sun, 2012-01-08 00:05
#79
First off, I have difficulty accepting the bronchitis explanation because Romeo did much better in French.
I think maybe BA's phrase of "internal toughness" is a better term to use than what I would call "mean streak." What I meant by that is that even though Jack Layton had a reputation of being a happy warrior, he was not all "sweetness and light." He could get very angry and sometimes he would criticize Harper without mincing words. There is, to my mind, a difference between that and the bullying that Harper does.
I agree that Romeo is a good candidate, and I have a gut feeling about him. But I think the challenge is there, and it's doable. The comparison I would use is if a job seeker is a superb candidate but has difficulty with the actual interview. That's a whole different thing than having skeletons in one's closet, for example.
Sun, 2012-01-08 00:21
#80
Romeo has something that is very appealing, a refreshing change of pace that I think could be very much appreciated by voters, especially younger people who are fed up with the bullshit.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xg3vE8Ie_E&ob=av2e]He does have the support of young musicians already.[/url]
Sun, 2012-01-08 00:45
#81
writer
Aristotleded24, I guess you weren't able to watch the Town Hall in BC then, where his English performance was better. And you weren't able to see his summation, which began in Cree. Wow.
https://twitter.com/#!/jimmydouglass/status/145684399827062784
https://twitter.com/#!/judemacdonald/status/145689731785691136
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:06
#82
RevolutionPlease
How tough is Harper to face, after an experience like that? How tough am I? And how miraculous is it that I do not have a mean streak? Instead, I have a life-long need to address social injustices like those my family, my people and I survived. A commitment to human rights. An understanding of how cultures live. And die.
Harper is a child of Leaside – still playing games with toy soldiers – in comparison.
Before I get into this, i'm inspired. Maybe some person can come along and move me on but I'm stuck on Eminem:
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:20
#83
RevolutionPlease
next, i think janfromthebruce nailed it that writer has a steadfastness that i admire. Thank you. thank you romeo for hanging in. I may have ad-libbed recently that i had an NDP membership but I sincerely do today thanks to the link from writer and someone else.
You dudettes should pub that some MORE!
With all the sports vignettes being bandied about, I feel I'm with a real good team in for the Super Bowl not just the CFL East.
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:31
#84
When you get into 'toughness of manner for dealing with Harper' .... consider the fact that if you actually watch Harper, his manner is not attack dog. It is his message that is mean and nasty, not the way he delivers it.
I think the main answer is the one that has been said: fighting fire with fire is not required or neccesarily wise. But as a kicker- Harper himself does not have the manner people are saying is required for dealing with him.
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:34
#85
RevolutionPlease
meh, unionist you don't sound too convinced. Neither am i. where is the platform? Are you satisfid with his glasses and t-shirt look?
romeo has a long way to go, as do i and my keyboard. fuck.
Hey writer, can you give us the link to donate to Romeo?
seriuosly theres aporb with my kb.
love ya's
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:38
#86
RevolutionPlease
When you get into 'toughness of manner for dealing with Harper' .... consider the fact that if you actually watch Harper, his manner is not attack dog. It is his message that is mean and nasty, not the way he delivers it.
I think the main answer is the one that has been said: fighting fire with fire is not required or neccesarily wise. But as a kicker- Harper himself does not have the manner people are saying is required for dealing with him.
fire must be met with fire. we will find a new way to put out the flames.
Sun, 2012-01-08 02:41
#87
RevolutionPlease
When you get into 'toughness of manner for dealing with Harper' .... consider the fact that if you actually watch Harper, his manner is not attack dog. It is his message that is mean and nasty, not the way he delivers it.
I think the main answer is the one that has been said: fighting fire with fire is not required or neccesarily wise. But as a kicker- Harper himself does not have the manner people are saying is required for dealing with him.
Trust me, some gentle events and Harper will explode, like the episodes of his...
Sun, 2012-01-08 14:33
#88
If there's something I learned about bullies growing up, it's that the worst way to let them win is to give them the reaction they were hoping for. Dion and Ignatieff played directly into Harper's hands.
Sun, 2012-01-08 21:11
#89
laine lowe
For interested Babblers in Toronto (Facebook links):
[url=http://www.facebook.com/events/208595379229996/]A First Nations House Lunch & Learn
Please come to share a nice hot meal and join a talk about finding common ground and solidarity between the things that are used to divide us:
- rural needs and the urban concerns
... - the people in the east and people out west
- natives and non-natives
- Quebec and the rest of Canada
- national interests and international responsibilities
- men and women
- unionized and non-unionized workers
- the realities of being a temporary worker, a refugee, an immigrant, a first-generation Canadian, here for several generations, a member of a First Nation, an Inuk, Métis
Together, we are stronger. So how do we come closer together?
Wheelchair accessible.
~
Romeo Saganash is the first Indigenous person to seek the leadership of a major federal political party – and perhaps our next Prime Minister.
He was raised in the small northern community of Waswanipi, Quebec, is a residential school survivor, and graduated from the Université du Québec à Montréal law school.
A lifelong environmentalist, Romeo served as vice-chair of the Cree Regional Authority and Chair of the James Bay Advisory Committee on the Environment. His work in the economic sector with Creeco Inc. and the Eeyou Co. showed his understanding of how to balance our duty as stewards of the land with sustainable economic growth.
In politics for nearly 30 years, Romeo founded the Cree Nation Youth Council in 1985, served as Deputy Grand Chief of the Grand Council of the Cree, and is now a Member of Parliament, representing a riding that covers the northern half of Quebec.[/url]
[url=http://www.facebook.com/events/211230388958305/]ATTAWAPISKAT BENEFIT CONCERT
DEREK MILLER
Janet Panic/Jace Martin/Phantom Black/The Pappy Johns Band/
Jesus Murphy-Jasper/The Clearing/PLEX/Arthur Renwick and Special Guests!
...
Thursday, January 19, 2012
The Revival Bar 783 College Street, Toronto
$20 Advance Tickets go to http://everybodybuys.com/toronto/deal/benefit
$25 @ the Door
Doors Open @ 8PM
Proceeds go to TRUE NORTH AID (www.truenorthaid.ca) Make all cheques payable to True North Aid. They will be on-site in Toronto and Ottawa.
106.5 FM The Voices Toronto/Gunner Recording/Iguana Recording/
Publicist: Stephan LaCasse t: 416-312-6955 or [email protected]
Contact: Rich Hunter, President Gunner Recording 647-973-6577 or [email protected] www.gunnerrecordings.com
We will also present a second Attawapiskat Benefit Concert January 24 in Ottawa. Details to be published shortly with Proceeds going to True North Aid, which is a hands on charity that will help us provide Winter Relief to our friends up in Attawapiskat for the people who really need it...See you all there...Meegwetch....Rich[/url]
Tue, 2012-01-10 01:39
#90
With French you talk more at the front of you mouth and with English at the back of your mouth. Saganash also coughed more in English.
Wed, 2012-01-11 02:06
#91
RevolutionPlease
Still so much time for him to make his mark. I think his address is perfect. And I don't understand french at all. Many people tell me they like a calm presentation. In fact, he kind of reminds me of Harper but not in that creepy, shower myself, kinda way. Comes across so smooth in a lot of ways. A little bit to work on but I remember Harper with his deer in the headlights and now his hugging kitten persona.
I'd really like to see more policy. And that's what I'd prefer to discuss.
Sat, 2012-02-04 13:53
#92
writer
RevolutionPlease, you won't see a lot in terms of policy, because Romeo is a firm believer that it comes from the people, not from back rooms. A platform will be coming out soon. A statement about the Middle East was released on Friday. Another statement will be coming early in the week.
In the meantime, I want to address the matter of his low donations to date.
My sense is that there are a lot of New Democrats who like the idea that it's the first to have an Aboriginal person running for the leadership of a federal party in Canada. The first ever. In the history of this country.
The thing with a first: It never happens again. And what will also go down in history? How much support and encouragement that hugely qualified very first Aboriginal person to run for a federal party had. The NDP will be remembered for that, too.
I hope some seriously reflect on that, given the standing of the financial support he's received so far.
There are some very good machines in politics. I think of Romeo's campaign as one that presents us with a forest. I'd rather be in a forest than in a machine.
https://secure.ndp.ca/leadership/index.php?candidate=LDR12_SAGANASHR&lan...
Sat, 2012-02-04 16:21
#93
Boom Boom
Just received an appeal from Saganash to help with his flying expenses ("You may think I have some good qualities, but unfortunately I don't have wings. Reaching communities across Canada costs money.") I'd contribute, but after paying my monthly bills, there's just nothing left. Such is the life of living on disability.
Sat, 2012-02-04 16:29
#94
writer
Understood, Boom Boom.
Sat, 2012-02-04 16:32
#95
Boom Boom
I'm voting for the guy, and I encourage others to do so, too. 
Sun, 2012-02-05 18:52
#96
Boom Boom
From TEAM ROMEO: Hear Romeo on CBC's C'est La Vie. He explains why "To be born Aboriginal is to be born into politics." If you're not near a radio, you can listen to the episode here:
February 5th and February 7th - Romeo Saganash
excerpt:
This week, we speak with Quebec MP Romeo Saganash, who's running for the NDP leadership.
You may know he's spent many years actively involved in landmark negotiations between the James Bay Cree and the Quebec government.
You may not know that he's also a poet, a photographer, and a marathon runner.
We'll hear more about those hidden talents, as well as other stories that Romeo Saganash rarely tells.
Fri, 2012-02-10 04:09
#97
RevolutionPlease
Meh, I've still got your back Romeo. Keep working out, we need you. I'm very sorry to "hear" the "travails tu passe". ;)
Thu, 2012-03-22 21:30
#98
I'm voting for the guy, and I encourage others to do so, too.
Yeah he's the one candidate I also wanted to meet. Imagine a Cree Prime Minister - someone who has seen the world through the eyes of the 1st peoples of the country - he could be the kind of guy who could right a lot of wrongs.
I am not voting until the convention. I will vote for whoever I think can stop Harper with a majority and do the job. I spoke to a friend in the Saganash camp tonight and am hoping to hear him talk tomorrow.
Thu, 2012-03-22 21:51
#99
Will they announce Saganash's vote totals during the convention balloting?
Thu, 2012-03-22 22:19
#100
I hope they do. I voted for him, to signal that I still support him over everyone else. I can't see what it would harm, unless he wins the 1st vote ;)
Thu, 2012-03-22 22:51
#101
It would be hysterically funny if, after withdrawing, Saganash won the leadership anyway. Imagine the looks on the faces of the other candidates(especially Mulcair!).