Zionist Crimes

103 posts / 0 new
Last post

Well there is a very good reason why Mike Godwin made up Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies, and Rebecca pointed it out exactly.



M. Spector M. Spector's picture

It's not a rule, but a jocular observation. The kind of jocular observations that occur thousands of times every day on forum boards around the web, and usually receive no special attention.

Only this one has been accorded mythical status as some kind of authoritative piece of wisdom, thanks to people who have a vested interest in avoiding the truth. And that truth is that fascism and Nazism differ from "ordinary" capitalist democracy only as a matter of degree; there is nothing that was done by Hitler that, in principle, would never be done by more "enlightened" capitalist states.

Those vested interests want to maintain the myth that Nazism was unique and beyond comparison to anything else that has ever happened. And so they perpetuate an internet meme designed to uphold that mythology.

I don't know why babble would want to have any part of it.


Hitler's Nazism Was The Same as Today's Zionism Says Holocaust Survivor (and vid)


Why Zionism-Nazism Comparisons are Legitimate  -  by Khaled Amayreh


"We need to highlight these similarities and the 'common ground' between Zionism and Nazism, irrespective of how many people will be upset by these comparisons. The truth is always a paramount value in itself.."

Zionism and Nazism: Is There a Difference That Makes a Difference?  -  by Roger Tucker


"Roger Tucker argues that Zionism and Nazism are 'identical manifestations of the same basic pathology' and that they are 'equally dangerous to the well being of humanity.."

Banning Comparisons Between Nazism and Zionism and Israel


"Criminalisation of free speech.."


Actually M. Spector, once homework became torture, bosses became Nazis,  and the cat became Hitler the only thing it did was render these absolute terms completely meaningless.

And "apartheid" is pretty much in the same pile.

If Israel's crimes are so great, I am sure they can be judged on their own merit. After all, if you are going to talk about something, perhaps you should talk about IT rather than relying on these comparisons to add colour (and confuse things).


Sorry, Godwin (and Seinfeld) had it right.


For that matter, Orwell had the word "fascism" pegged as meaningless half a century ago.




6079_Smith_W wrote:

Actually M. Spector, once homework became torture, bosses became Nazis,  and the cat became Hitler the only thing it did was render these absolute terms completely meaningless.

Thank you for refuting Rebecca's argument above. People saying "this homework is torture" or "murder" trivializes torture and murder? What foolish sophistry.

And "apartheid" is pretty much in the same pile.

If you don't think Israel's treatment of Palestinians is as bad as the South African racists' treatment of black Africans, Indians, and coloreds - why not just say so - instead of hiding behind Rebecca's "historical parallels aren't useful" thesis.

Human beings can't think, analyse, exist, without making comparisons. It's called learning from experience. Those who commit crimes are very pleased not to be compared to their predecessors. [/quote]


The terms, Unionist.

It trivializes the terms, and in its worst forms it makes a mockery of the real thing.

And honest comparison is one thing, but when one starts to cut corners and equate it becomes a problem.



Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Mockery is just one form of resistance. I don't really see why Nazism is such a revered term that it cannot be used as a comparison. I guess comparing anything to old empires like the British or Roman would be off limits under the same theory.  Do you think Hitler was as bad as or worse than the Roman empire?  Do you think the British Empire was as bad or worse. And then there were the Spanish conquistadors.  

Okay now that I think about it no one in history compares to Hitler.  After all he was just a short lived flash in the pan compared to the real evil empires.

Uncle John

It should be clear that there is a big war going on all over the Middle East and Central Asia. The area currently called Israel is a strategic point of it, however its importance to the US is now less than in any time in the post-WW2 period, considering the huge number of US military bases all over the region. Rumour has it that the US may even be willing to let Israel go in some kind of Spring/Occupy uprising in that area.

America's continued support of Israel is and will continue to be a constant stumbling block in relations with other states in the region. It might be in the West's interests to cut Israel loose in exchange for peace with many others.

Nice LOLbunny M. Spector. I thought I would comment on that, as an avid fan of the artform myself. Normally, pieces of bread on the heads of animals are associated with "tragically mindless in-breading", or also may be captioned as "Wating for Lord Xenu", as a reference to the Church of Scientology. The pancake, however, is fairly unique, and being comprised of more than just bread materials, may indicate another religion. Being round, further relgious aspirations could be entertained in the caption-writer, as in some kind of 'halo', which might even indicate an Orthodox or Catholic proclivity. Finally, being a "Monorail Rabbit coming through a tunnel", it is subject to any number of quips about not wanting to go to Australia for basic survival reasons.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And for some strange reason Lincoln and the Brits don't pack quite the same punch as old Mr. Hitler does.

Which is exactly why HE WHO CANNOT BE NAMED is used so often.



That's part of it, NS.

It's not that no one compares to Hitler, it is that the name means something distinct in our psyche, and when one uses it, it is not simply in the interests of comparison. And he has a special significance when it comes to Israel which makes it even harder to make any sort of reasonable comparison.

But trying to make comparisons is highly subjective and not a very serious or useful exercise, IMO. Again... expecially when it is Nazi analogies, as Mr. Godwin correctly pointed out. 

WRT Israel, you could make a serious comparison with Britain and some of its colonies - certainly as bloody and as racist, even in recent history, and there are more similarities WRT the society  and government itself.

We could also say Israel used some of the same policies as Abraham Lincoln - expansionism, allowing racist slave laws in some parts of the country, refusal to recognize the existence of the southern states and working to cause divisions within them, suspension of habeas corpus, blockading their ports, refusal to recognize elected leaders, arresting envoys trying to establish diplomatic negotiations with other countries, conducting sieges, scorched-earth war on civilians, and destroying cities outside of battle. Lincoln also felt that blacks and whites could not live together. His intention after the war was to deport the freed slaves to the Caribbean and South America.

Fair comparison, but also one which demonstrates that the exercise doesn't always tell the whole story.

And for some strange reason Lincoln and the Brits don't pack quite the same punch as old Mr. Hitler does.


Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Now that we know where everyone stands on historical metaphors, what say we get back to the topic of the thread, eh?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

It's not that no one compares to Hitler, it is that the name means something distinct in our psyche, and when one uses it, it is not simply in the interests of comparison. And he has a special significance when it comes to Israel which makes it even harder to make any sort of reasonable comparison.



here's a developing 'Zionist Crime' story...

The Armageddon Network  - by Justin Raimondo


"...This is not a covert conspiracy but rather an open one: the Israelis have threatened, time and time again, to take military action against Iran. They claim the Jewish state faces 'another Holocaust' and that Iran poses an 'existential threat' to Israel's very existence.

The latest wrinkle is that officials in Tel Aviv reportedly told Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, on a recent trip to Israel, that they wouldn't necessarily be informing the White House until after the Israelis have launched their fighter jets and missiles. Perfectly understandable:

After all why should the Israelis - who drain us of $3.5 Billion a year in 'foreign aid' give us a few minutes warning of Armageddon?"


Oh indulge me with just one more, Catchfire. Besides, they might like this one.

It is interesting that Roger Tucker (NDPP's link at #53) focuses on the lurid, and dismisses what is probably the most significant common denominator - anti-communism. 

It may not have the same name in Israel, but both states were built on seige mentality, and the notion that they were a bulwark against barbarism. That is the whole reason why they excuse doing the things they do, 

As for racism, religious-ethnic purity, violence, expropriation of land, forced internment, expulsion and genocide  - there are sadly no end of historical and current examples that fit that - including right here in Canada.


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

But god forbid we should ever compare anything that happened in Canada to Nazi Germany - even though there were plenty of Nazi sympathizers in powerful positions here and in the USA in the 1930's!

As for anti-communism, that was as pervasive in Canada as in Germany in the 1930's. Modern-day Israel is far less concerned about communism, since it faces no real existential threat at the moment from communists, either domestic or foreign. There are other far more significant common denominators with Nazism, as Tucker elaborates.


Catchfire wrote:

Now that we know where everyone stands on historical metaphors, what say we get back to the topic of the thread, eh?

Well, I thought the topic of the thread was "Zionist crimes". One of the most significant crimes committed in Zionism's name is to reject as "anti-Semitic" virtually any negative characterization of Zionism as ideology or practice. When Palestinian civil society condemns Israel's official policy as "apartheid", should we explain to them that they are "off-topic" and should avoid "historical metaphors"?



Unionist wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

Now that we know where everyone stands on historical metaphors, what say we get back to the topic of the thread, eh?

Well, I thought the topic of the thread was "Zionist crimes". One of the most significant crimes committed in Zionism's name is to reject as "anti-Semitic" virtually any negative characterization of Zionism as ideology or practice. When Palestinian civil society condemns Israel's official policy as "apartheid", should we explain to them that they are "off-topic" and should avoid "historical metaphors"?

That would be two different things you are talking about. 

Yes, there are some, including in our own government as you know, who wrongly try to portray political criticism as anti-Semitism. Refusing funding, silencing debate, and even banning groups based on this lie is indeed an injustice.



Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Unionist, thanks for that display of sophistry, but I think we both know what this thread is about. If you'd like to start a thread about Nazi comparisons (and if you think such a thread would be in any way productive) fill your boots, but this thread, as anyone can see by reading it, is not that thread. And that goes for you too, Winston.


Israeli Army Steps Up Attacks on Palestinian Water


"...The last two months have seen a steady stream of IOF attacks on Palestinian water wells in the West Bank and Jordan Valley, a troubling trend that warrants bringing the issue of Palestinian water rights once again into the spotlight.."

Destroying Palestinian Solar Plant


"Israel wants to destroy a Spanish solar power plant in the West Bank providing electricity for 40 Palestinian families, a school and a medical centre..."

Israeli Government Plans to Exhume 1,000 Bodies from Historic Muslim Cemetary


"...thousands of graves containing the remains of the companions of the prophet, scholars and martyrs.."

the malevolent Zionist entity, so supported and protected by all Canadian political parties,  persecutes the living and the dead..


Bibi's Official Genocide Policy  -  by Craig Murray


"...it is quite astonishing that Netanyahu's declared, published and open intention to wipe the Palestinians from the map gets nill publicity in the west. The source for this is impeccable: Likud's party platform as presented on the website of the Knesset.

This is absolutely compulsory reading for anybody who was taken in by the opposition to Palestinian statehood 'without negotiation' as explained by the Israeli stooges in western governments.."

or their 'loyal' oppositions


The Russell Tribunal Stands Up to Silence


"...Analyzing 25 Israeli Acts and eight Bills, the tribunal found that Jewish Israelis are privileged in most spheres of public life inside Israel, including residency rights, land ownership, urban planning, access to services and social, economic and cultural rights.."

Israel Steps Up Police State Crackdown


"Authorities committing daily repression won't refrain from inflicting bodily, even life-threatening harm on Palestinians and Israelis whose views and actions they consider objectionable. In fact, doing so is longstanding official policy. Today it's more ruthless and unrestrained than ever...No wonder so many Jews vote with their feet and leave..."

yet still our pols maintain their studied silence...

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

But ALL parties in the House condemned Iran and voted for sanctions despite the fact it appears to be actually adhering to the Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed.  The international monitors are in the nuclear facilities because Iran is adhering to the Treaty.  The other three countries were never monitored because they refused to agree not to develop the bomb.  Hell with our CANDU technology Canada should be indicted for spreading weapons of mass destruction.

Unlike their neighbours in Pakistan, India  and Israel Iran doesn't have the bomb. Iran has not invaded another country for hundreds of years.  Why cannot at least one party in the House have a nuanced foreign policy that takes into account actual history not NATO propaganda. 


Interesting report on the Real News Network.  It is an alternate take on the AIEA investigations in Iran. I am 75 years old and I have never known Iran to invade any country in my lifetime. Iraq, at the behest of the US, invaded Iran and they fought for 20 years.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Sarann wrote:

Interesting report on the Real News Network.  It is an alternate take on the AIEA investigations in Iran. I am 75 years old and I have never known Iran to invade any country in my lifetime. Iraq, at the behest of the US, invaded Iran and they fought for 20 years.


Here is a link. Thx I enjoyed the interview.  The analysis at the end of the interview about the main Israeli objective now being tough sanctions would explain the unanimous support in the H of C for sanctions. PARTIES IN CANADA'S HOUSE OF COMMONS have agreed to sanctions based on the flimsiest evidence. Sanctions that the Israeli MSM describe as an attempt to cripple Iran's economy. Both the government and her majesty's official opposition are in lock step.


The new measures set out in Executive Order 13590, signed by US President Barack Obama, are designed to persuade Iran to halt this potential catastrophe by severely disrupting the flow of technical supplies, fuel and finance into the Iranian energy industry, thereby crippling the country’s economy.




Israelis Filmed Abusing Palestinian Prisoners (vid)


of course this is nothing much really, as compared to the zios hardcore fun -  stuff they WON'T show on Israeli TV...where's that bone-smashing IDF vid?..will post anon.


Apartheid Oil  -  by Macdonald Stainsby


",,,Crude oil trapped in shale could transform Israel into an energy powerhouse. What promises to be the most energy intensive form of oil recovery on the planet could reinforce Israel's military might, while presenting a new threat to scarce water resources and the climate..."

not to mention it's all somebody else's


EI Exclusive: UK Charity with Mossad Links Secretly Denounced Anti-Zionist Jews to Government


"An influential UK charity denounced Jewish critics of Israel in secret reports to the government earlier this year, the Electronic Intifada has learned.."


I Am Sick Of...  by Mazin Qumsiyeh (and vid)


"The end of the world is Dec. 21, 2012 according to the Mayan Calendar being the year 5125. I do not know about that but I do know that the window of opportunity to end the world of privilege and chosenness is quickly closing and we must have enough people involved in speaking truth to power and finally removing this power from the elites.

The alternative is deterioration to a real world scenario where humans are on each other's throats fighting over remnant natural resources depleted and destroyed by greed.

Is this little blue planet worth saving?

If your answer is yes, then you belong to one of two groups of people: activists who do something about their convictions or apathetic people that do not act on their convictions..."


Settlers Attack 2 Children in Hebron


"Israeli settlers in Hebron attacked two Palestinian children in the West Bank city on Sunday, their family said. The group threatened Muhammad Abu Eisha, 12, and his brother Ibrahim, 11, with a knife before striking the children..Israeli soldiers did not apprehend the group..."


Israel Plans More Walls  -  by Stephen Lendman


"Instead of peace, reconciliation, equity and justice, Israel plans settlement expansion and more Walls. Projected to exceed 800 km when completed, its route is largely within the Green Line. It's not for security. It's land theft plain and simple, around 12% of Palstine. Combined with settlements, miitary zones, parks, commercial developments, other closed areas, and open spaces, nearly half the West Bank will be annexed. Perhaps more eventually as land theft continues unabated.

It's a massive land grab, a settlement expansion scheme and plan to seize all valued land, dispossess tens of thousands, entirely Judaize East Jerusalem and enforce police state harshness. Illan Pappe believes the Zionist project involves constructing, then defending 'a Western/'white' fortress in the Arab/'dark' world.."


Professor of Hate: Israeli 'Scholar' [Arnon Sofer] Urges Ethnic Cleansing of Bedouins -  by Ali Abunimah


"A prominent Israeli professor at the University of Haifa, Arnon Sofer, is urging the government to act fast to ethnically cleanse Palestinian Bedouins lest Israel be 'destroyed' by them.

For years the Israeli state has mobilized all its resources to complete the ethnic cleansing of Bedouin - Palestinian indigenous people - and the 'judaization' of their land. Already much of their land has been taken, and the few places they've found refuge are under threat.

The ethnic cleansing proceeds with the full support or active participation of Israel's Jewish Agency and the Jewish National Fund which uses bogus tree-planting initiatives to greenwash the theft of Bedouin land.."

[email protected]


Israel Another Apartheid South Africa? (and vid)


"South Africa has demanded Israel and International governments to immediately dismantle the state of Israel's system of apartheid over the Palestinian people and to rescind all discriminatory laws and practices..."

must watch!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Podcast: [url=http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/redeye/2012/01/palestinian-citizens-isra... Abunimah says the 1.4 million Palestinians who are citizens of Israel proper face discrimination on par with that experienced by African-Americans prior to the civil rights movement.[/url]


Israeli 'Satire' Show Latma TV (and vid)


"The Israeli 'satire' show Latma TV produces an animated cartoon that depicts African people as apes.."


Anti-Zionism in the 21st Century  -  by Tariq Shadid


"The essence of the Palestinian struggle is the battle against Zionism. Let us first look briefly at the history of the anti-Zionist struggle and then see where we stand today.."


IDF Torturer Doron Zahavi Wants to Sodomize Arabs and Get Medal For It


"Doron Zahavi, who still can be called only 'Captain George' in the Israeli media, has gone public with his greivance against the IDF, which employed him to torture kidnapped Arabs...

Lest you doubt he is a rotten apple, take a peek at this.."


Crimes Against Humanity: The Torture of Palestinian Children  -  by Stephen Lendman


"Israel ignores all international laws. It does what it pleases, including against children as young as 10, no matter their innocence. DCI Palestine and other human rights organizations demand these crimes against humanity end and those responsible be held accountable. So far it hasn't happened..."

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

The search bar is gone on my babble page, I found this by clicking on "Gaza" in the "browse by issue bar", can't find a better place to put this.


West Bank outposts spreading into Area B, in violation of Oslo Accords


Palestinians Hear the Water


"After a recent Israeli Supreme Court decision allowed Israeli companies to maintain quarrying and mining activities in the occupied West Bank, local human rights groups and activists say the decision has opened the door dangerously to Israel's pillaging of other Palestinian resources.

'On its face, the new rule allows the occupier (in long term occupation) to make endless use of the variety of objects found in the occupied territory'. Israeli human rights group Yesh Din stated. 'To pump its water resources, to transfer its archaeological artifacts to somewhere outside the territory, to use areas within it for garbage disposal, to sell public real estate, and more..'

The court argued that the laws of occupation change when the occupation is long term, in other words, the powers of an occupying power can expand, while the prohibitions against it become increasingly flexible, in a long-standing occupation.."

sounds just like Canadian court decisions on land rights...


'I Can't Take Part In These Crimes' : Israeli Refusenik Interviewed


"Earlier this week, 18 year old Israeli Noam Gur publicly announced her intention to refuse mandatory service in the Israeli army. Set to be drafted next month on 16 April, Gur stated in an open letter:

'I refuse to take part in the Israeli army because I refuse to join an army that has, since it was established, been engaged in dominating another nation, in plundering and terrorizing a civilian population that is under its control..'

I think we're at a place of no return. I really do think that if we want to change anything in Israeli society, the pressure needs to be really, really strong from outside. That's why I support the BDS call. It's really going to be hard to change it from within. I think it's kind of impossible.."

Bravo Noam Gur!


Videos Of Theft of Palestinian Water (and vids) - by Kawther Salam


"According to a report received yesterday, Monday March 19, 2012 by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in the occupied Palestinian territory, the zionist jewish colonists have 'seized' Palestinian Water Resources (dozens of natural springs) in the occupied West Bank, barring Palestinians and limiting their access to scarce water in the area..."

yet again this from 'the only democracy in the Middle East' (TM)


Low Key Exposes Zionism (and vid)


"Long Live Palestine!"


'Hate Studies' Ignores Certain Types of Hate


"The discipline of Hate Studies has neglected Zionism as a source of hatred"


'Settlers' Violence Reflects Brutal Nature of Zionism': Analyst (and vid)


"Last year the number of settler attacks resulting in Palestinian casualties and property damage increased by more than a third; since 2009 it increased by 150 percent,' said a July 11 joint statement issued by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF), the Ecumenical Accompaniment Program in Palestine and Israel (EAPP), the Palestinian NGO Al-Haq and the Israeli NGOs Yesh Din and Btselem.

Illegal Israeli settlers often assault the Palestinians or vandalize their properties in the occupied territories. More than a half million Israelis live in over 120 of the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and East al-Quds..."

Press TV interviews Ralph Schoenman, author 'Hidden History of Zionism'


Have the Occupied Palestinian Territories Become the 'Native American Reservations' of Our Times?  -  by Ridwan Sheikh


"Israel's refusal to stop building settlements in occupied West Bank and Jerusalem is a poignant reminder the Palestinians could share a fate similar to the indigenous American Indian peoples of the 1800s.."


Israel Versus Judaism


"Zionism constitutes a danger, spiritual and physical, to the existence of our people..."


The Truth About Israel by a Jew  -  by Miko Peled (and vid)


"The General's Son..."


Agent Cameron's Latest 'UJIA' Dinner Speech


"...There's no contradiction between being a proud Jew, a committed Zionist and a loyal British citizen.' Agent Cameron is bent on rewarding Israel's crimes and defending Israel's criminals."


US Christian Zionists Fuel Islamophobia (and vid)


"Estimates state anywhere from 15-50 million Americans reportedly identify as Christian Zionists..."


Israel's Formula For a Starvation Diet  -  by Jonathan Cooke


"How 400 trucks to feed Gaza became just 67..."


Canada Calls For Resignation of UN Special Rapporteur, Palestinian Territories, Richard Falk (and vid)


"Canada has called on a UN Special Rapporteur for Palestinian Territories, Richard Falk to quit over his anti-Israel remarks, saying that the report he submitted to the UN General Assembly was disgraceful. 'Richard Falk has a long history of making outrageous statements, and frankly has only tarnished the reputation and integrity of the United Nations,' said Rick Roth, a spokesperson for Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said on Thursday.

'Mr Falk has not only done a disservice to the United Nations, but also to the Palestinian people. Canada calls on Mr Falk to either withdraw this biased and disgraceful report - or resing from his position at the United Nations,' he added.

This comes as the UN's Special Rapporteur for the Palestinian Territories, Falk, presented a report to the UN General Assembly on Wednesday, saying that since a number of Israeli-owned and multinational corporations involved in building and maintaining the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories violate international human rights, a worldwide boycott should be launched against these companies.

According to the report, at least 13 firms including VOLVO, CATERPILLAR, HEWLETT PACKARD, and MOTOROLA should be boycotted..."

'Canada has become little more than an embassy for Benjamin Netayahu' - George Galloway MP


Fugitive Businessman Arrested in Toronto


"...Businessman Nathan Jacobsen has gone from hobnobbing with the most powerful politicians in Canada to a jail cell. Jacobsen, who grew up in Winnipeg, has dual Canadian-Israeli citizenship, and until last year had a credit card clearing company in Tel Aviv, PAYGEA which processed paments for online gaming sites and adult web sites. Israeli media reports say that after the company ceased operations, it left creditors in the lurch...

Jacobson is a prominent member of the Canadian Jewish community and has been a strong backer of the Conservative government. He was previously on the board of the Canada-Israel Chamber of Commerce and the Canada-Israel Committee. In 2009, he was master of ceremonies for a party celebrating the 61st anniversary of the founding of Israel in the West Block of Parliament Hill, the keynote speaker, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Jason Kenney.

He has travelled in Israel with Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird and is said to be friends with both ministers..."




Israel founded "in the West Block of Parliament Hill"

Didn't know but not surprised...Undecided