NDP Leadership #100

150 posts / 0 new

Topic locked

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:00

flight from kamakura

Stockholm wrote:

flight from kamakura wrote:

also a promise that i'll make right now: if dewar becomes leader, i will organize ceaselessly to take laverdière out in laurier-sainte marie in the nomination battle, including - if necessary - becoming the candidate myself. there are two bastions of ndp support in montreal, and she's representing one of them, and the more i think of it, the more outrageous i find her support of dewar. she's literally the only montrealer i've met who even remotely prefers him as leader.

I think you are going overboard here. Helene Laverdiere is a very strong MP with enormous experience in foreign affairs. I had the pleasure of meeting her face to face and i she really impressed me and i found her to be an all-around wonderful person. I agree that her endorsement of Dewar is a bit "quixotic" - but maybe she and Dewar have simply become very good personal friends - and that counts for a lot? I think you need to count from 100 to 1 backwards and lower our blood pressure and not make rash threats post-dated to September of 2015!

read my follow up post(s). she's just not right for the riding. i've been thinking about this way before she was elected. you can find posts of mine on here from several years ago predicting this riding becoming one of our two fortresses in quebec, and describing who we'd need in there for it to happen, how it would be consolidated, etc. think of how jack harris is making st john an ndp fief, or how halifax is now a very safe ndp seat, etc. laurier-sainte marie should be the sort of riding that other parties don't even bother seriously contesting, but to get to that point, we need that first mp who commands enormous personal support, and i can tell you, from experience, that laverdière is emphatically not that mp. the baffling dewar endorsement just adds an irritating element to it all because, like i said, if she got her wish, she'd likely lose her seat. to restate it dispassionately: in a normal election where we picked up 20-30 seats nationwide, that seat would have been won by a super charismatic, ultra-connected well known local - laverdière won in the wave, most people hadn't a clue who she was, and now that we are doing party consolidation work in montreal, the task moves to getting ourselves that person (described above) who'll become one of our showcase mps.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:06

#53

NorthReport

So if the deadline to have a membership to be eligible to vote is February 18th which is Saturday and the offices are closed on Saturdays, does that effectively mean the deadline is closing time tonite?

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:13

#54

flight from kamakura

anyway, without going into this too much more, i'll just say that hoang mai going for dewar is baffling, but since he's unlikely to be re-elected even with mulcair as leader, he really can just go for it. laverdière's endorsement, by contrast, proves yet again that she's just not what we need or deserve in laurier-sainte marie. she lucked into the seat, she didn't earn it, she wasn't vetted and if she were, we'd go another way. we have a nomination process, mps have to be responsive to their constituents, and i can tell you that during a nomination meeting, telling people she endorsed a unilingual anglophone from ontario for leadership in the race against thomas mulcair is going to be something she'll not be able to defend convincingly.

anyway, enough about that. i wish dewar would just drop out and go back to the commons so that this contest wouldn't stress me out so much. i'm literally losing sleep sometimes thinking about a non-ndp quebec.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:19

#55

dacckon

Topp has released his enviromental plan.

So what do you guys think? (I skimmed over it, do the work for me and debate it here)

And if Topp reappears on babble, what do you think of geoengineering?

Oh, and I guess I need to take out a last minute membership.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:26

#56

Boom Boom

Paul Dewar is on P&P in a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:28

#57

mark_alfred

Here's the release from Dewar's site about Hoang Mai and Hélène Laverdière's endorsement. Perhaps it's the shared interest in foreign affairs that has attracted them to Dewar's campaign.

[later edit] oops, forgot the link. Anyway, here's the release from his site.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:30

#58

mark_alfred

Boom Boom wrote:

Paul Dewar is on P&P in a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is P&P?

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:32

#59

Boom Boom

CBC's Power and Politics. What planet are you on????

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:45

#60

mark_alfred

CBC just has the news on for me. I don't have cable, satellite or high speed, so I just get regular CBC.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:47

#61

Boom Boom

mark_alfred wrote:

CBC just has the news on for me. I don't have cable, satellite or high speed, so I just get regular CBC.

Okay - it was CBC Newsworld, which I get on satellite.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:47

#62

Stockholm

flight from kamakura wrote:

anyway, without going into this too much more, i'll just say that hoang mai going for dewar is baffling, but since he's unlikely to be re-elected even with mulcair as leader, he really can just go for it.

I'm not sure what makes you think Hoang mai wouldn't et re-elected in 2015. he won by a very wide margin and is in a good riding that is too franco- to go Liberal and not franco- enough to go BQ and he seems to be one of the more high profile new MPs etc...If he can't win again under Mulcair no one can - then what's the point of making mulcair the leader at all?

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:48

#63

Boom Boom

It was five minutes long. Dewar defended himself against Topp by saying he is working every day to develop his French, and he trotted out his two Quebec endorsements today as evidence that he is doing well in Quebec. He's also been musy in Montreal selling memberships.

Later, he went after Harper for beating the war drums on Iran - saying diplomacy via the UN is the way to go.

Overall - I'm more impressed by Dewar today than Topp yesterday. Certainly more humble and affable.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:49

#64

Stockholm

Boom Boom wrote:

It was five minutes long. Dewar defended himself against Topp by saying he is working every day to develop his French, and he trotted out his two Quebec endorsements today as evidence that he is doing well in Quebec.

Its nice that Dewar is working on his French every day...but its NOT GOOD ENOUGH. We need a leader who can hit the ball out of the park in Quebec on March 25 - not someone who might be vaguely comprehensible in French 18 months from now, maybe...

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:49

#65

socialdemocrati...

Unionist wrote:
So, SDD and FFK and whoever else weighed in, now that you understand what CJMPE said a little better, can you answer this? Where does Mulcair stand on the current bid for U.N. membership by Palestine?

I think this is an important question. I went to an event to ask about PR. It's not hard to get around to asking a question.

Here's the list of Mulcair events:

http://www.thomasmulcair.ca/site/calendar/?lang=en

He's going to be in Quebec and BC in the near future.

Anyone interested in attending and asking if Mulcair supports Palestine's current bid for U.N. membership?

Thanks, Unionist, for getting passed innuendo and speculation, and focusing on something that we might be able to verify.

Fri, 2012-02-17 17:58

#66

Boom Boom

Stockholm wrote:

Its nice that Dewar is working on his French every day...but its NOT GOOD ENOUGH. We need a leader who can hit the ball out of the park in Quebec on March 25 - not someone who might be vaguely comprehensible in French 18 months from now, maybe...

Oh, I agree. I was reporting on what was said, and trying not to editorize too much. I'm not a Dewar supporter, in case you don't know.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:04

#67

nicky

You can listen to Tom outline his mid-East position in his own words.

http://webmailos.allstream.net/mail/dlAttach.php?attachment=2.2&index=70...

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:04

#68

flight from kamakura

two parts: 1) the south shore liberal/npd vote-split or bq/ndp vote-split makes it very difficult to see some of our mps there pull through, even if we have a very strong leader. i shouldn't have said that bit about mulcair, because i don't believe it, and my point was more about how an mp like him really can't be sure of victory no matter who's in charge, there's no sure bet when he's dealing with the dynamics that he is. 2) i'm very dubious about how some of our non-white candidates will do in quebec next time around. something that many people haven't really mentioned is that the ndp wave saw more non-white people elected in quebec than during any other election federal or provincial at any time since. i was chatting with an old professor of mine and he was saying something to the effect of 'yeah, no matter how popular the ndp, a laurin liu is just not going to be re-elected' and though it's annoying, something in my gut tells me that there's something to that. when some old white mayor comes in there for the bq or the plc, mulcair leader keeps the ndp in the game, but yeah, i just don't see a laurin liu holding up.

eta - open nominations will be an important part of making sure that our quebec team going into 2015 is good and strong. if you can't win a nomination battle in the riding you represent in parliament, you shouldn't be an mp. i'm guessing we'll probably see several (if not many) mps replaced, by this process.

to make it fair and build excitement, it would be cool if all ndp nomination contests would be held on the same day nation-wide.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:05

#69

Stockholm

flight from kamakura wrote:

two parts: 1) the south shore liberal/npd vote-split or bq/ndp vote-split makes it very difficult to see some of our mps there pull through, even if we have a very strong leader. i shouldn't have said that bit about mulcair, because i don't believe it, and my point was more about how an mp like him really can't be sure of victory no matter who's in charge, there's no sure bet when he's dealing with the dynamics that he is. 2) i'm very dubious about how some of our non-white candidates will do in quebec next time around. something that many people haven't really mentioned is that the ndp wave saw more non-white people elected in quebec than during any other election federal or provincial at any time since. i was chatting with an old professor of mine and he was saying something to the effect of 'yeah, no matter how popular the ndp, a laurin liu is just not going to be re-elected' and though it's annoying, something in my gut tells me that there's something to that. when some old white mayor comes in there for the bq or the plc, mulcair leader keeps the ndp in the game, but yeah, i just don't see a laurin liu holding up.

FYI: Hoang mai's riding of LaPrairie-Brossard actually has a very sizable Chinese-canadian population. I'm sure they don't mind having an MP who is of Vietnamese descent.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:08

#70

Boom Boom

CBC's P&P is running that clip of Brian from yesterday and the panel is taking it apart. He dumped on Cullen, too, by the way, for his co-operation scheme.

Rob Russo: "There's a sense that Topp has under-performed"

Kady O'Malley: "NDP internally are concerned that Topp doesn't have a seat."

Greg Weston: "Obviously Paul Dewar will not be reaching out to Brian Topp"

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:21

#71

DSloth

nicky wrote:

You can listen to Tom outline his mid-East position in his own words.

http://webmailos.allstream.net/mail/dlAttach.php?attachment=2.2&index=70...

Links not working for me, but I'd love to hear it.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:24

#72

socialdemocrati...

I've been trying to figure out if there's an official NDP stance on Palestine's bid for UN recognition, to become more than an observer and on the level of the Vatican.

I found a few articles:

On the bright side, I have a little more respect for Dewar, who has been handling his foreign affairs role pretty competently. He's raised very reasonable and agreeable criticisms against Harper, who has opposed Palestine's bid. (Bob Rae's stance is "not now".)

On the brighter side, even though polls indicate that people are happy with Harper's handling on the issue (more likely they just don't care), the same poll (paradoxically) says that Canadians want the UN to recognize Palestine (a plurality, not a majority).

On the confusing side, more than one article has Dewar saying "we will offer our official stance on the bid by the end of the week". That was in September. I haven't found anything on the NDP website or in the news. I'm pretty thorough, but I'm not as well versed on this issue as others.

The NDP's promise to deliberate followed by complete silence has my eyebrows moving in all kinds of directions.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:33

#73

Polunatic2

SD said

Quote:
I went to an (Mulcair) event to ask about PR

What did he say? How is he going to get us there? Referendum or not?

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:37

#74

socialdemocrati...

Polunatic2 wrote:

SD said
Quote:
I went to an (Mulcair) event to ask about PR

What did he say? How is he going to get us there? Referendum or not?

Short version: we need to amend the constitution to drop the senate, but we can get to mixed member proportional representation with legislation. The party position is MMPR. He says we need a clear mandate from the voters and we have to campaign on it, and that he intends to do that.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:49

#75

Boom Boom

Brian Topp will be on CBC Radio's The House tomorrow with Evan Solomon, and apparently will be talking about his tax the rich plan, and about Paul Dewar and Tom Mulcair again.

(The House is interviewing all of the candidates)

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:49

#76

duncan cameron

Wage Zombie I made a contribution to my Vancouver Centre riding association in January and the BC NDP told me I still needed to renew my memberhship before Feb. 18, which is Saturday or tommorrow for me as I write this. So I signed up on their membership page.

Fri, 2012-02-17 18:54

#77

Hunky_Monkey

Boom Boom wrote:

Brian Topp will be on CBC Radio's The House tomorrow with Evan Solomon, and apparently will be talking about his tax the rich plan, and about Paul Dewar and Tom Mulcair again.

(The House is interviewing all of the candidates)

One thing I like about Tom, Nash, Cullen and Ashton is that they haven't gone on the attack against their fellow candidates except maybe in the debate over an issue, etc.

I'm not sure Topp is doing himself any favours by going after the others in such a way.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:06

#78

Boom Boom

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
I'm not sure Topp is doing himself any favours by going after the others in such a way.

Either he doesn't care, or he's doing a 'scorched earth' policy to block Dewar, Mulcair, and Cullen from winning.

If anyone here listens to "The House" tomorrow with Evan Solomon as host, can you report what you hear? Thanks.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:18

#79

Winston

I think Laverdière was a phenomenal catch as a candidate and we're incredibly lucky to have elected her. Sure, I am disappointed that she selected Dewar (same goes for Linda Duncan and all the others), but calling her out in this way is completely off-side. Please cut it out.

flight from kamakura wrote:

laverdière and mulcair own the two most left-wing seats in the entire province of quebec, likely the most left-wing seats east of the danforth. we should have a libby or pat martin or megan leslie-style mp here, a huge figure, not a virtually unknown retired foreign affairs bureaucrat. this is should be one of the safest ndp seats in the country, and that laverdière would go with dewar just shows me that she doesn't at all understand what the enjeux are, how to consolidate our gains, what we're even looking at. with the right leader she could own a new ndp fortress, and she's going with a guy whose name she can't even properly pronounce and who can't understand the majority of her contituents if they speak quickly or use a real montreal accent. it's very irksome. i hope luc ferrandez or someone gets in, takes her out, and becomes the real francophone face of the party. and if noone wants to do it, i'll invest the time and the money to take a shot at it, that's for sure, i'm no wilting flower.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:21

#80

Winston

You mean like Dewar's campaign did in that odious e-mail earlier in the week?

GregbythePond wrote:

Its existence is demonstrated by the ease in which contributors are willing to throw hard working fellow party members under the metaphorical bus

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:22

#81

dacckon

Well people said the race was boring. I think that Topp is simply proving he can spin as well as the other candidates can, and don't deny that the other candidates don't spin as well.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:26

#82

Hunky_Monkey

dacckon wrote:

Well people said the race was boring. I think that Topp is simply proving he can spin as well as the other candidates can, and don't deny that the other candidates don't spin as well.

What has Peggy said about Tom? What has Tom said about Peggy? What has Niki said about Topp? The list goes on...

Not spinning very well when he's turning people off and I'd suspect, not gaining much out of it.

And all NDP leadership races are rather boring with exception of unexpected events happening at convention :)

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:28

#83

Boom Boom

Winston wrote:

I think Laverdière was a phenomenal catch as a candidate and we're incredibly lucky to have elected her.

She was on a three-person panel on P&P tonight talking about Libya, and she parroted the Conservative line, as did the Liberal. All three - Con, NDP, and Liberal panelists all agreed with each other on the government's approach to Libya - that it is a good one.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:38

#84

Winston

I think you can chock that up to the fact that the Party's position as a whole was pretty namby-pamby and vacuous. So she parroted every one else's line. The Party in general is very weak on international affairs and is in dire need of some educated researchers who know what they're talking about IMHO. I am embarassed nearly every time most of our MPs and spokespeople open their mouths on this stuff (Jack was a welcome exception).

Boom Boom wrote:

Winston wrote:

I think Laverdière was a phenomenal catch as a candidate and we're incredibly lucky to have elected her.

She was on a three-person panel on P&P tonight talking about Libya, and she parroted the Conservative line, as did the Liberal. All three - Con, NDP, and Liberal panelists all agreed with each other on the government's approach to Libya - that it is a good one.

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:53

#85

Skinny Dipper

Thomas Mulcair: Great oratorical skills! He is learning to be patient in debates by waiting for the right time to reply. He chooses his words well. He may not be a traditional NDP team player because he doesn't accept the NDP as being a protest party of "ordinary" Canadians. Mr. Mulcair wants power; he wants to become the next prime minister. He will change the NDP frame and focus if he becomes leader. However, will Thomas Mulcair become the NDP's Stephen Harper?

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:56

#86

JeffWells

duncan cameron wrote:

Wage Zombie I made a contribution to my Vancouver Centre riding association in January and the BC NDP told me I still needed to renew my memberhship before Feb. 18, which is Saturday or tommorrow for me as I write this. So I signed up on their membership page.

I wish the party would get its membership house in order. Mine has always lapsed without any notification. Just send me an email!

Fri, 2012-02-17 19:58

#87

flight from kamakura

Winston wrote:

I think Laverdière was a phenomenal catch as a candidate and we're incredibly lucky to have elected her. Sure, I am disappointed that she selected Dewar (same goes for Linda Duncan and all the others), but calling her out in this way is completely off-side. Please cut it out.

well, the dewar endorsement was just the last straw, for party consolidation reasons that i made clear. and like i've said many times before, if we manage to consolidate quebec support and make the ndp quebec's party of choice, we're going to get awesome candidates every single time, in every riding. for laurier-sainte marie, laverdière just isn't the right fit, and given how safe this seat should be, we can get exactly the one we want. this isn't just any seat, this should be a van-east, danforth, winnipeg-center, etc. if the ndp goes down to 15 seats across the country, this should be one of them. laverdière is obviously not the mp to build that sort of infrastructure (like, say, mulcair has) - and the dewar endorsement shows me that she doesn't even get that it's what she should be doing.

Fri, 2012-02-17 20:13

#88

Skinny Dipper

JeffWells wrote:

duncan cameron wrote:

Wage Zombie I made a contribution to my Vancouver Centre riding association in January and the BC NDP told me I still needed to renew my memberhship before Feb. 18, which is Saturday or tommorrow for me as I write this. So I signed up on their membership page.

I wish the party would get its membership house in order. Mine has always lapsed without any notification. Just send me an email!

I had the same problem. The party has a weakness by not notifying that one actually has a membership and when it expires. I joined the party last September in Ontario. Little did I know that my membership would not be good for voting for the next leader. I had to renew again.

There are different dates for each province and territory when one must have joined the party. A donation after those dates may not suffice. You must check to see if you are currently a member: http://leadership2012.ndp.ca/convention/how-vote

Edit: I just noticed that the Ontario early cut-off date has changed. Why did I bother to renew my membership?

Fri, 2012-02-17 20:19

#89

Wilf Day

Stockholm wrote:
Hoang mai's riding of LaPrairie-Brossard actually has a very sizable Chinese-canadian population. I'm sure they don't mind having an MP who is of Vietnamese descent.

2006 Brossard--La Prairie:
http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-595/P2C.cfm?TPL=RETR&LANG=E&GC=24011

Median earnings: $30,062 (Monteregie $27,709, Montreal CMA $26,731)

Visible minority:
Total 23.1%

Chinese 7.5%

South Asian 3.5%

Arab 3.0%

Black 2.4%

Latin American 2.2%

Southeast Asian 1.7%

Mother tongue:

French 64%

Non-official 25.2%

English 10.9%

Immigrants: 23.4%

Fri, 2012-02-17 20:31

#90

Hunky_Monkey

If a leadership candidate doesn't want power and to win government, should they be running? lol

Fri, 2012-02-17 20:35

#91

Brian Glennie

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Keys to victory:

Cullen has a shot at the final ballot, but I doubt he could win. His key to victory, IMO, would be a lot of New Democrats who have bought into the idea that we need to merge or cooperate, which hovers around 1/3 of NDP voters. If enough scared Liberals joined the NDP to vote for him, he could make the final ballot. But I think he'd lose the majority of members with his cooperation strategy.

Nathan's moving into Stornoway if you're right about those 1/3 of NDP voters.

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:07

#92

doofy

I don't see any evidence to support FFK's comment on QCers not electing visible minorities. Didn't the Bloc have Kotto and a Vietnamese lady elected in Valleyfield? Yes, Laurin Liu will be in a tough fight, but not because she is an Asian, but b/c she is not from her riding and does not speak French very well. Hoang Mai is in a highly electable constitutency. It's been electing "ethnics" federally and provincially since at least 1994!

Personally, I can't make any sense of Mai and Laverdiere's decisions. Maybe they are "Mulcair plants". Mulcair knows that if he faces Dewar on the final ballot he is virtually guaranteed of victory. Perhaps he wants to prop Dewar up? Only half joking...

As for what Wilf Day said about the history of successful opposition leaders without a seat, I can list a few counterexamples: namely John Tory, Lingenfelter, and Stockwell Day. Some succeed; some fail. Topp has the added disadvantage of asking an MP who had just been elected (unless he wants to expel Mulcair) to resign. + the riding may be a tough fight. The NDP has never given new leaders a free pass and has no right to expect that they will not run against Topp. And if you think a leader can't lose a byelection, look up "John Tory".

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:18

#93

Bärlüer

doofy wrote:

Yes, Laurin Liu will be in a tough fight, but not because she is an Asian, but b/c she is not from her riding and does not speak French very well.

I don't know where you set the bar for "very well", but her French is better than, say, Brian Topp's, to use one point of reference.

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:23

#94

adma

doofy wrote:

I don't see any evidence to support FFK's comment on QCers not electing visible minorities. Didn't the Bloc have Kotto and a Vietnamese lady elected in Valleyfield?

Saint-Hyacinthe, not Valleyfield.

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:27

#95

Polunatic2

From JanfromtheBruce in Thread 99

Quote:
There are tons of threads here on "strategic voting" and those groups who support it. They are by all intent run and back roomed by Libs. Spare me the mostly NDP member stuff.

Just because you assert the same thing in thread after thread doesn't prove anything. Cullen's campaign has the support of 2 BC MPs and 5 BC MLAs. There's nothing new about thinking outside the box in BC politics.

You don't like "strategic voting". You don't like Cullen's co-operation proposal. I get that. You oppose it on principle. I can respect that. But repeating the same bs about Liberal front groups and belittling those who want to discuss it lowers the level of debate.

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:29

#96

socialdemocrati...

Brian Glennie wrote:

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Keys to victory:

Cullen has a shot at the final ballot, but I doubt he could win. His key to victory, IMO, would be a lot of New Democrats who have bought into the idea that we need to merge or cooperate, which hovers around 1/3 of NDP voters. If enough scared Liberals joined the NDP to vote for him, he could make the final ballot. But I think he'd lose the majority of members with his cooperation strategy.

Nathan's moving into Stornoway if you're right about those 1/3 of NDP voters.

In the summer, it was 40% of Liberals and 25% of New Democrats. But we were at our polling peak then, and Liberals were on suicide watch.

POLL

Keep in mind that's *voters*, not members.

Fri, 2012-02-17 21:36

#97

Polunatic2

Winnipeg Free Press - Cullen gets social-media boost for co-operation among opposition parties

Quote:
"These two groups coming on board is huge for us," Cullen, a British Columbia MP, said in an interview.

"They have networks that go far, far beyond normal party structures. ... The sheer number, that's absolutely staggering."

....Biggar said Leadnow.ca will not endorse any candidate in the NDP contest. Its objective is to show all contenders that there's an appetite for co-operation and to perhaps compel some of Cullen's rivals to come up with their own ideas on that score.

Fri, 2012-02-17 22:07

#98

Hoodeet

I'm really really afraid that we might not get the right person to go toe to toe with Harper & his goons, and with the Liberals. Someone who can be as good a street fighter as Chrétien but with the grace and good humour of a Jack Layton; thick skin, staying power, good organizational skills to keep QC and broaden support in the ROC... AND someone who won't sell out socialism to any "third way".

As you all analyze the candidates' strengths (beyond whether you find them likeable), do you think one could foresee how they will hold up and how well they can mount a strong opposition inside and outside Parliament? (I'm assuming that Parliament is going to be increasingly stifled by the Cons, and that when something big is in the offing Mr. H. will prorogue again --and again-- so an extra-parliamentary strategy would be necessary.)

Much as I prefer Nash and Ashton and dislike or distrust Mulcair, and certainly Dewar too, I am wondering whether to hold my nose and vote for Mulcair because of QC and because he seems to have been developing steadily as a match for the other side. Plus he already has a seat.

(I don't think you'll ever get a pro-Palestine position from Mulcair because of the Jewish population of Outremont.)

Any guidance on this?

Fri, 2012-02-17 22:37

#99

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I'm looking for the same guidance Hoodeet. FFK's comments about visible minorities in Quebec have also given me cause for concern. Especially with FFK's promises and ideas to take nominations away from sitting NPD MP's.

Wus up wit dat?

Tom has the inside track but I have this nagging stomachache with the way his supporters are acting. The strongest PR folk on babble are leaning to Topp or less so Cullen it seems. (waiting on Wilf) The win government is strongly in favour of Mulcair. He, along with Cullen seem most able to connect. (Dewar also seems to have this) I'm glad Singh is in the race but I've heard the spiel. With Romeo out (F***) I'm glad Ashton is still around but need to see more. Likewise, Peggy. I've really been disappointed with Nash. (Is this cutthroat stuff really just a man's game still? We need new politics) So my Ashton criteria just went back up. It's so hodge-podge.

I guess, overall, the historic gains by the party (thanks to Quebec) are what will ultimately determine my vote. But I'm less likely today than yesterday to assume that Mulcair can deliver that. And more likely to not write Dewar off. Folks should really think about how they do their politics. It may only be about 10 members that I influence but remember that old commercial? ... as so on and so on?

Jack Layton inspired Canada, Quebec and First Nations. He united us. That's what our next leader has to continue. There's lots of time for us to make up our mind. Keep your mind free and open and let's all be a better party for it.

Fri, 2012-02-17 22:39

#100

Unionist

Hoodeet wrote:

(I don't think you'll ever get a pro-Palestine position from Mulcair because of the Jewish population of Outremont.)

This is anti-semitic bullshit. I'm calling you on it, the way I call everyone on it. Retract it fast, or be prepared for some really nasty insults. Sorry for telling the truth, but I'm sick and fucking tired of so-called progressive characters connecting Jews with love for the Israeli criminals and being responsible for the oppression of Palestinians. Did you hear me, or would you like to hear it again?

And no, I don't think I'll just "flag as offensive", because this bullshit needs to be settled on this board once and for all.

If someone says, "Smith will never denounce terrorism because of the Muslim population of his riding", will anyone accept that racist shit?

I didn't think so.

This has been going on for years on this board, and I think I'll just take my stand right now.

So retract, please.

Thanks.

Fri, 2012-02-17 22:40

#101

Skinny Dipper

I think that people to support uniting the Liberals and NDP are mostly coming from the Liberals. I don't think their objective is to unite progressives, but to weaken the NDP.

Pages

Topic locked