Babble Book Club: Lynn Coady's The Antagonist final discussion questions?!

101 posts / 0 new

Mon, 2012-02-06 18:09

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Well, we have set an extra special deadline for our latest selection, even thought some have already poured through it, which will be Sunday March 4th 12:00pm PST/3:00pm EST!

There is still lots and lots of time for those who have yet to begin (ahem) or those still working through it, and there is some secret incentive and some instant incentive for those who have already finished!

First the instant incentive:

Through a little tweeting, lovely Canadian author Nathaniel G Moore (@NathanielGMoore) shares his topic suggestions for discussion:

@rabbleca oh that's easy. the entitlement of coady's genuine POV or the legitimacy of coady's voice via male ego. #post subversion

What do you all think? Do you agree with some of Nathaniel's statements here, as well as what are your opinions on Coady's point of view and ability to convincingly voice a male ego?

And as for the secret incentive for both the fully completed, yet to begin and halfway through?! Well, you will have to wait a little bit longer to find out!

Issues Pages:

Arts & Culture

Regions:

Tue, 2012-02-07 07:05

Caissa

Another interesting question is who is the antagonist? Is it the narrator? Might it be his father? Or is it the recipient of the emails?

Tue, 2012-02-07 07:18

Gaian

Turning the book review into a discussion of the male ego as seen in The Antagonist? Or do I have that wrong?

But with the book's portrayal of that rare breed, a jock living in both worlds, I can't wait to see the psychoanalytic explanations of the book's defence of that male...is his character believable?

Tue, 2012-02-07 07:53

Caissa

The main character is a damaged individual. I haven't thought much about the question of believability. I kep wanting some material on the death of his mother and his relationship with her. I didn't find that part of the book believeable at all. I was distracted at times by the fact that the location is clearly Fredericton and I studied there as a student.

Fri, 2012-02-10 17:43

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Interrupting this conversation to bring some exciting news (and the reveal to the surprise):

Author Lynn Coady will be joining our final discussion on Sunday March 4 12:00 p.m. PST/3:00 p.m. EST to answer your questions about current Babble Book Club selection The Antagonist!

But, the Babble Book Club needs your help! Since the book club is all about you lovely readers and your wonderful critical thinking skills, we want you (!) to discussion, pose and shape questions for Lynn on everything and anything about her novel The Antagonist. I will be compiling a list of your questions on February 26 to send to Lynn Coady before she joins us on March 4 to discuss the answers with you!

So, let's keep this discussion going, no holds bar, keeping in mind that you will receive the actual input from the creator of these words (and not me have repeated conversations with myself about the potential meaning!). Pose your questions on this thread and on February 26 I will select and refine them all!

Let me know of any questions or comments about this event or check out our book blog post for more information our facebook group for additional insight!

Thanks again for being such lovely participants and I look forward to all your questions and comments!

Tue, 2012-02-14 21:45

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Gaian wrote:
Turning the book review into a discussion of the male ego as seen in The Antagonist? Or do I have that wrong? But with the book's portrayal of that rare breed, a jock living in both worlds, I can't wait to see the psychoanalytic explanations of the book's defence of that male...is his character believable?

I don't think you have it wrong? This was just a question, or more so a guide, brought forth by Nathaniel G Moore.

Though not too deep into it yet, I started out with the question will Coady's voice be believable as a male counterpart. Sometimes author's cannot make that jump (re: Murakami can't seemingly write the ladies well) and therefore fail miserably, but when they do, it adds another layer to the story.

Michael Christie wrote women completely effectively, with passion and realism, in the Beggar's Garden, and so far, I believe to see Coady doing a great job of creating both Adam and Rank.

Sun, 2012-02-19 16:40

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

How is the reading going everyone?

Our discussion with Lynn Coady is coming up in two weeks! wow! I am still currently powering through the Antagonist -- working late nights is making me feel half-alive these days, so I apologize for my lack of constructive and critical thought so far.

Feel free to conitnue using this forum to start to compose and discuss thoughts on the book and on or around February 26 I will take our main thoughts and questions and send them to Lynn. However, on March 4, definitely ask and answer, response and probe, anything and everything you want to Lynn!

So let it fire with any discussion on the Antagonist you want!

Wed, 2012-02-22 16:23

Gaian

Kaitlin McNabb wrote:

How is the reading going everyone?

Our discussion with Lynn Coady is coming up in two weeks! wow! I am still currently powering through the Antagonist -- working late nights is making me feel half-alive these days, so I apologize for my lack of constructive and critical thought so far.

Feel free to conitnue using this forum to start to compose and discuss thoughts on the book and on or around February 26 I will take our main thoughts and questions and send them to Lynn. However, on March 4, definitely ask and answer, response and probe, anything and everything you want to Lynn!

So let it fire with any discussion on the Antagonist you want!

Hi Kaitlin. "On or around" the 26th is not satisfying for an old hack meeting deadlines.

Something firm, please.

Thu, 2012-02-23 13:29

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Gaian wrote:
Kaitlin McNabb wrote:

Hi Kaitlin. "On or around" the 26th is not satisfying for an old hack meeting deadlines. Something firm, please.

Oh Gaian, you know I always mean the deadline I originally placed -- just trying not to scare off readers who may not be able to meet the Sunday 26 deadline for questions!

Our thread has been a little bare for discussion and I wonder if it is because everyone is waiting for Lynn to discuss? My original idea was to continue discussion like we have before and send her some rough ideas or more solid questions so she can be a bit more prepared then if we just fire random questions; however, she's a pro either way.

So in closing: pose any questions you want on this thread, hopefully it will promote other babblers to talk as well, and then on March 4, we will have Lynn and I can prompt her with some of our questions to get the ball rolling!

Thu, 2012-02-23 13:35

#10

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Cross-posting some thoughts from our lovely facebook group to provoke and pique your thoughts! Here is a conversation happening on facebook right now:

First question:

Working on some ideas as we speak. I enjoyed this book and thought by the end that the narrator had somewhat overcome his own negative beliefs about himself although undercurrents certainly remained. He seemed to buy into the stereotypes that were manufactured about him according to his size. That's a beginning for me. Still reflecting on this one. The author did a good job writing a male character and the changing nature of friendships.

Response:

Could more than one character be considered the antagonist?

Response:

The character who based his book on Rank could be an Antagonis and many of the characters antagonize each other. Rank's father is always antagonized by someone. There was a great deal of stress and anxiety the lives of these characters as they struggled to carve out their identities.

Thoughts from anyone on this discussion? The latter response definitely proves to be great topical conversation for Lynn!

Thu, 2012-02-23 13:37

#11

Caissa

Can I suggest that future selections have a smaller reading period?

Thu, 2012-02-23 13:53

#12

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

@ Caissa, yes definitely.

It took a bit of time on my end to get all the confirmations with Lynn Coady for the discussion! We had a conflict of dates (unfortunately February 26 was out) and chose to go with March 4 instead of February 19 to allow more time for everyone just in case, but now I know to always pick the closer deadline:)

We will work on the decreasing the time frames here since everyone is so avid! I'll open up a feedback thread after the final discussion as we are still a work-in-progress here and tips and critque are always appreciated!

Again, (always) feel free to get the conversation going early, as stated I am trying to compile a list of potential questions to send to Lynn for preparation and at the moment I don't have too much to go off of!

Sat, 2012-02-25 09:56

#13

Gaian

Refreshingly vulgar dialogue, but I wonder if people can actually continue to communicate with others of their species at this level of antagonism.

The father, in particular, could not have operated a business expecting moms and kiddies to patronize the place. I had a neighbour like him in the 1950s, a little Scotsman (known to others as "Scottie", of course) from Glasgow. His wife could have snapped him in two, so they co-existed. Daughter rose to be a major in the Sally Ann, now retired... (good to see the institution bearing that name in this novel).

Gord became a very painful read. The angry, alienated father who can be abusive is not uncommon, but I would think that many sons (and daughters?) rationalized their situation by understanding that sitting in trenches and being shot at for a few years, then starving a bit for much of a decade, does not a Robert Young, "Father Knows Best" figure create.Gord seems (so far) to have no excusable background. I hope he's "explained."

For this reader, enjoyment entered, dulling the earlier pain, when Rank began reading Adam's creation.

Sun, 2012-02-26 09:29

#14

Marianne Trench

I just began reading the book and then saw this online forum for discussion yesterday.. I'm only on pg. 70 so don't have any questions that might arise after 'finishing' the whole but.. at this point, what came to mind was the way that Rank's body size influences his perceptions and others perceptions of him. I don't recall many author's really exploring the mind/body connection in this way, especially describing the discontinuity between them, like when his body becomes like a man's body while his age/pysche still feel like a boy's.. and the change in people's behavior and attitudes that he experiences. I'd be interested to know how Lynn came to explore this aspect of being with her character and also let her know how much I'm enjoying reading it. thanks.

Sun, 2012-02-26 10:57

#15

Catchfire

I'm glad you joined us, Mariann. Lynn Coady will be coming here and answering questions live on March 4th at 3pm EST, so please come and join us!

Mon, 2012-02-27 18:21

#16

Gaian

Count me out of the lineup, Kaitlin.

Reality calls.

Tue, 2012-02-28 16:48

#17

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Marianne thanks for joining us!

I agree, I like how the author is using his pyhsicality to explain his behaviour and justifications, rather then just commenting on others peceptions. Also, Rank seems so introspective and aware of himself and others, it's almost refreshing, yet strange because of the content. I too am not finished yet and am interested to see how the dichotomy of his physical appearance and knowledge plays out!

And Gaian, we're sad to see you go, unless, are you making a crack at the book club?

Wed, 2012-02-29 07:19

#18

Caissa

I don't believe he was making a crack at the BBC, Kaitlin.

Wed, 2012-02-29 13:33

#19

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Caissa wrote:

I don't believe he was making a crack at the BBC, Kaitlin.

I don't think so either, one just never knows in type. Half the time I think I am hilarious, but no one else does

Fri, 2012-03-02 09:50

#20

Elizabeth1970

Looks like I have the house to myself on Sunday. I can join the discussion free from interruption!

Fri, 2012-03-02 11:12

#21

Catchfire

Superb! Looking forward to the discussion (even if I haven't ben able to read the book!)

Fri, 2012-03-02 19:59

#22

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Catchfire wrote:

Superb! Looking forward to the discussion (even if I haven't ben able to read the book!)

and after you mocked a fellow friend for the same thing.

And your questions so far have been set off to Lynn and I am excited to read all your questions and responses on Sunday!

Here is a blog post about Sunday and any potential information you all might need. I will start off the discussion by posing the questions we have amassed here, but encourage everyone to respond and comment! It is only an hour so we will try to get to everyone's question and encourage everyone to post, but please wait for the appropriate time and respect those other babblers comments as well (as I know you all will)!

Sat, 2012-03-03 07:49

#23

Marianne Trench

I won't be able to attend the online discussion tomorrow but thought that I'd post my current view..

I finished the book last night and felt that the story drew me into it thoroughly..by keeping the reader guessing as to what actually happened and at the same time developing the story (Rank's past) while he's also writing about the present, is very effective.. I liked the way that Rank is changing his perspective as the book goes along.. Also, I was really impressed with the ending and the way things are revealed; even the last line has a lot of insight, explaining Rank's issue with Adam's book. As for Gord's character; I really appreciated the way Lynn turned things inside-out for me. I felt that there was love in the end between Gord and Rank as Rank grows into a place where he has resolved some of his turmoil and can be with Gord's craziness without feeling crazy himself..

Lynn, you're a great storyteller. I loved the book and am interested in other's views on it as there's a lot there to look at.

Sat, 2012-03-03 15:18

#24

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Thanks Marianne Trench, I will be sure to direct Lynn to your comment tomorrow and ask your previous question above so you can look back at the answers when you have the time! Thanks again for taking the time to write in!

Sun, 2012-03-04 14:48

#25

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Conversation with Lynn Coady will be starting in 10 minutes!

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:00

#26

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Hi Lynn! Thanks for joining us!

First question comes from Cassia: Who is the Antagonist? Is it the narrator Rank, father Gord, or friend Adam? Potentially a case can be made for all three?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:01

#27

LynnCo

Hi you guys, thanks for having me to your book club! I just visited a book club in banff on Friday and was asked the same question. The answer is all of the above. For me what makes a great title is exactly that contradictory quality of it feeling dead on and ambiguous at the same time. On the most literal level, 'the antagonist' references Rank--the character Adam creates out of him in his (Adam's) novel. That's Rank's motivating fear--was he the antagonist in that novel and, by extension (assumes Rank), real life? Was he the villan of his own story? No matter how hard he tries to be a good guy, has the universe decided otherwise for him? But then the deeper Rank delves into his own past, via his writing, the more the ambiguity comes into play. Adam becomes, in many ways, the antagonist of the book Rank is writing--this annoying dude who has provoked and betrayed him, yet refuses to engage with him online. And of course then there is Rank's very antagonistic relationship with his father. Finally, there's Rank's theological musings--is god (or the gods) on his side or is he (are they) not? And if god is his antagonist, what does that make Rank?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:06

#28

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Any comments out there?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:07

#29

kim elliott kim elliott's picture

Welcome to babble Lynn!

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:08

#30

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Next question comes again from Cassia:

Rank is clearly a damaged individual: how does the relationship with his mother and her subsequent death weave into this?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:08

#31

alex

Hi Lynn! Wow, I hadn't counted that many antagonists in the book...but that overall self-destructive, pessimism pervades the book. So many angry dudes! I found myself thinking this must have been a difficult book to write and wondering if these characters were based on real individuals or experiences you've had?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:08

#32

LynnCo

Hi Kim! Thank you, it's nice to be back. I used to get all firebrandy in here back in Rabble's infancy in the late 90's *waves cane around*.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:08

#33

Elizabeth1970

Just thinking!

I thought maybe that was the case. There is antagonism in the relationships of almost every character in the book even the more minor ones such as the drug dealer guy who like to antagonize Gord.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:09

#34

alex

Whoops, I'm a slow typer...wait a sec...did I just ask Lynn Coady if she is an angry dude...for realz?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:09

#35

corinnew

Hi Lynn. I've read and love all your books. You mention Rank's theological musings... Actually I notice a "God" awareness running through most if not all of your books I've read. Can you comment on how religion has influenced your writings?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:11

#36

LynnCo

HI Alex, not really, certainly not in any direct way, but I definitely have had experiences with male anger--and my own anger and feeling envious, sometimes, of guys for the more straightforward ways in which they are permitted to express it. Strangely, it wasn't that difficult a novel to write, or a voice to write in. There was something really freeing and energizing about Rank's anger. It had it's own built-in momentum!

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:13

#37

LynnCo

Hi corinnew , yes, Catholicism. That does seem to be one of my "things". In fact as I was writing above about the 3-man antagonism triad of Adam, Rank and Gord Sr. I realized there is a whole 'trinity' thing going on. I can't seem to get away from it. That's something Rank and I have in common.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:18

#38

corinnew

Is Catholicism something from your past you're still trying to shake or something other???

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:18

#39

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

From Cassia:

Rank is clearly a damaged individual: how does the relationship with his mother and her subsequent death weave into this? (And religious nature!)

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:19

#40

LynnCo

"Next question comes again from Cassia:

Rank is clearly a damaged individual: how does the relationship with his mother and her subsequent death weave into this?"

Well, Rank being raised Catholic, he was kind of subconsciously weened on the whole virgin/whore holy mary/mary magdalene dichotomy. And when it came to his mother--well as far as he was concerned she definitely fell on the "holy" side of the spectrum. And yet Sylvie represents the downside of that ideal too--she's passive, she a bit of a martyr, she holds on to her suffering as a kind of virtue, until finally she decides she can suffer no more.

*spoiler alert*

So near the end, when Rank discovers his mother plans to leave Gord, a part of him is thrilled because finally she's repudiating the martyr role. But the fact that she dies almost immediately after he learns this feels, on some level to Rank like a cosmic punishment of them both. Like his mother is being punished for her "sin" of deciding to abandon her husband. But even more importantly, Rank takes the sin upon himself, because he's the one who always wished she would make this decision. Hope that makes sense.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:22

#41

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I wonder if Rank is more drawn to his mother pre-marriage or post-marriage? She seems to waver on that dichotmy as well, representing indepedence before and submissiveness after marriage.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:23

#42

LynnCo

Corinnew: My Catholic upbringing is something that has given me a lot of gifts in terms of my writing--the bible is a source of incredible drama and poetry. At the same time, I'm always struggling, psychologically, to counter some of it's not-so-great effects of that conditioning upon my psyche. A propensity to feel guilty 24/7 for example. I just participated in a conversation with Russell Smith on CBC to do with the fact that I never seem to write about sex. I don't say this with any pride, it's not something I do on principle--it's a psychological block that I am constantly having to chip away at!

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:24

#43

LynnCo

*forgive any grammar and punctuation and spelling errors if you would, I don't have my editor on hand. *

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:24

#44

Elizabeth1970

Years of marriage to an angry guy like Gord could erode someone's identity and independence. His anger is so large there wouldn't be room for much else in the relationship.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:26

#45

LynnCo

"I wonder if Rank is more drawn to his mother pre-marriage or post-marriage? She seems to waver on that dichotmy as well, representing indepedence before and submissiveness after marriage."

Kaitlin, yes, that's a good point. On some level I think Rank's struggle with loving his mom pre-marriage vs. post-marriage is a refelction of his struggle with Catholicism. Is it ok to love a version of his mom that wasn't quite so "holier than thou" as she was post-Gord?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:26

#46

LynnCo

Elizabeth1970--exactly!

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:27

#47

MegB

Hi Lynn,

The epistolary form was popular in some of the first Canadian novels (18thC), and it's kinda cool to see it used in the modern context, email. What made you decide to use that form?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:27

#48

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

@Elizabeth1970: but she also married him in the first place (source of anger in the book for me!-- and Rank) what would drive her to do this? Since she also seemed financially independent? Is this Catholicism's influence as well?

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:27

#49

LynnCo

Also, on some level, Rank is really angry at his mom for allowing Gord to take over to the extent that he has--for never putting her foot down.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:28

#50

LynnCo

...Just as my cat is really angry at me right now for ignoring her.

Sun, 2012-03-04 15:29

#51

LynnCo

Rebecca, I decided to use that form precisely for the reason you identified--I thought it would be an interesting, 21st century twist on a very traditional form!