Will the NDP have to become more like the US Democratic Party/New Labour to form the government?

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Sat, 2012-03-03 08:42

Rabble_Incognito

I hope I didn't assert that re nationalization was necessarily a good idea. I think I tried to say above that if there's no profit and the products were produced cheaper, this is mighty nice incentive to have something nationalized.

And just because something is government run doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea. The US postal service has been running successfully for over a hundred years. Canada Post is another. The Coast Guard, the Army, are all government run, and they run fine. Ontario Hydro used to run fine till it was sold off, and now we pay shareholders profit.

I think the reason to nationalize something is 'public need' broadly put. If the public need can be best satisfied in terms of quality and price by a non profit public entity, then I think that's a good way to go, generally speaking of course. That's why I think utilities should in general be public entities - because we need them to be reliable and cheap.

Sat, 2012-03-03 08:48

#103

1springgarden

Rabble_Incognito wrote:

I didn't assert that re nationalization was necessarily a good idea. I think I tried to say above that if there's no profit and the products were produced cheaper, this is mighty nice incentive to have something nationalized.

And just because something is government run, Ken, doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea, as your statement suggests. The US postal service has been running successfully for over a hundred years. Canada Post is another. The Coast Guard, the Army, are all government run, and they run fine. Ontario Hydro used to run fine till it was sold off, and now we pay shareholders profit.

I think the reason to nationalize something is 'public need' broadly put. If the public need can be best satisfied in terms of quality and price by a non profit public entity, then I think that's a good way to go, generally speaking of course. That's why I think utilities should in general be public entities - because we need them to be reliable and cheap.

I would like to see Canada Post turned over to CUPW to be run as a syndicalist run service, with the current government granted monopoly on mail but also with postal banking. There is a paragraph in the CUPW union handbook which alludes to such a workers' control aspiration of CUPW, written in there in the 1970s when workers' control of industry was a popular concept on the left.

I would generally like to see some alternatives to capitalism revived. I realize that nationalized industry is not workers control of industry, but the concepts were both popular during the 1970s. I'm thinking Yugoslavia as an example of blending nationalized industries and workers control.

Sat, 2012-03-03 08:55

#104

Rabble_Incognito

A worker controlled Canada Post wouldn't be a bad idea in my view. It would probably be better managed by workers, than by the 'professional managers' that currently run it (and then fail to negotiate in good faith with workers).

I stand corrected - Canada Post can be improved too in terms of it's relationship with workers - a balanced arrangement with the union could fly - I'm not sure I'd give up the asset to private ownership, even a collective. But I'm all for increased union involvement in helping management not to fuck up as much.

Sat, 2012-03-03 11:08

#105

Lord Palmerston

KenS wrote:

Privatization of utilities may be bad. But that does not make even 're-nationalization'- of what is most naturally a public asset- a good idea.

As someone engaged in fighting Nove Scotia Power, Inc.... we'd be worse off if it was back in government hands- even with an NDP government.

I know, nationalization is repugnant.

Sat, 2012-03-03 11:14

#106

Lord Palmerston

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
I won't be petty towards the people who callously thought they wouldn't be affected. Even if they only recently found religion on globalization, there's still room in the choir.

Of course if well-off professionals want to support a social democratic/redistributionist platform, we welcome that support. That's very different from specifically catering to them by embracing more market-friendly policies like the Clinton/Obama Democrats, New Labour, the current LPC, etc. That was my point.

Sat, 2012-03-03 11:31

#107

Catchfire

LOOOOONGGG

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