That headline should read "Candidates that are the most results oriented have the most momentum". Why are Cullen and Mulcair thought of as more to the centre? Not because both don't have plenty of lefty credential both in their political resume and in their campaigns, but because in addition to those things they will also associate themselves with organisations, strategies, and ideas that go outside the NDP's purity zone. Neither of them care about that kind of thing. They're much more focused on finding a solution, making things work, getting something done.
Vancouver Leadership debate 2
Mon, 2012-03-12 14:12
#52
Mon, 2012-03-12 14:39
#53
Mulcair has said just a billion times that he doesn't plan on shifting the party to the centrr, his platform is to the left of the NDPs last platform, yet all the headlines are convinced he's a centralist. Its biazzaro world because no matter how left wing a policy he puts out, people still say he's centralist.
In what ways would you say his platform is to the left of the 2011 platform?
What are his left wing policies?
ETA: Honestly, I feel like I have been following this race pretty closely from the start, and I have no idea what you are talking about.
Mon, 2012-03-12 15:45
#54
Mulcair wants to expand the carbon reduction proposal to affect more companies than the 2011 platform. Everything else has been at least an echo or an expansion of the 2011 platform, although not necessarily leftward.
Mon, 2012-03-12 15:48
#55
Arthur Cramer
What I meant is that I don't like the way the party estaoblishment, Broadbent, Judy WL, other MPs and party insiders immediately fell in behind Topp. And this 3rd way stuff in Saskatachewan just makes me nervous and very distrustful of him. Schreyer endorsed Tom. Ed is still a real lefty. I trust his judgement.
Mon, 2012-03-12 16:44
#56
Mostly his cap and trade plan, but also the fincial transaction tax, which I don't think the 2011 platform had (could be wrong). I didn't say hugely to the left of the party platform, but with all the headlines that Mulcair wants to move the NDP to the centre I find it ironic that his platform would shift it to the left, even if slightly. Also Mulcair has not ruled out income tax increases, which the party platform did. In fact Mulcair talked about closing income tax loop holes, which lets be honest, an income tax increase, just not by percentages. Depending on how liberal Mulcair is in how he defines loop holes it could even be a massive income tax increase. I could argue that all those boutique tax credits are just fancy loopholes and tax credits are well over a hundred billion dollars. Half that would be 50 billion.
Mon, 2012-03-12 17:51
#57
ashton is the sort of politician i actually don't like at all. knowing i'll offend someone (if people bother to read my posts anymore), i'll say that in a way, her, nash and dewar have come to form this trifecta in my mind of the sort of rah-rah thoughtless party hacks that we really don't need. contrasting her complete lack of nuance with the masterfully subtle attacks levelled by topp and the pitch-perfect defensive performance of mulcair, it's actually a wonder that she hasn't yet dropped out. she doesn't speak for the youth, she doesn't represent new politics, and she doesn't really bring anything to the race. it was her best debate, but not a good one, imo.Much of the criticism Ashton has faced in this campaign she has faced simply because she is a young woman, a refelection of the fact that the only appropriate role our culture tells young women to play is that of pretty sex objects. Sloganeering? Which candidate hasn't done that this race? She speaks 5 languages, an important skill set in an increasingly interconnected world. How many languages can the other candidates speak? She has also faced voters in the public and won 2 out of 3 of those contests. How many times has Brian Topp done that? And to deride her because she's "too young?" Funny, that sounds exactly like the lines the Liberals and Conservatives used about the NDP candidates in Quebec. Is that to say that young people shouldn't be involved in politics and should not be taken seriously? And we wonder why voter turnout is so low among that age group?
Make no mistake, if her name was Nickolas Ashton instead, she would not be facing this kind of criticism.
This may be true to some extent, but at the same time we have to recognize that it possible to critisize people like Niki Ashton without getting immediately smeered as being a sexist.
Mon, 2012-03-12 18:02
#58
Mulcair has said just a billion times that he doesn't plan on shifting the party to the centrr, his platform is to the left of the NDPs last platform, yet all the headlines are convinced he's a centralist. Its biazzaro world because no matter how left wing a policy he puts out, people still say he's centralist. On the bright side Harper will never be able to smear Mulcair as a left wing extremist no matter what Mulcair preposes. I mean Mulcair could nationalize the fucking Oil Industry and everyone would be convinced it was all an attempt move the NDP to the right.
If Mulcair wins, he will have SO MUCH POLITICAL CAPITAL to go stridently left because of how he's been painted.
Mon, 2012-03-12 18:07
#59
Made a minor revision to my original post.
I know this will make a few peopole unhappy here but she's right about Topp's situation!
Yaffe: Candidates that would move NDP to centre have most momentum
http://www.canada.com/news/national/Candidates+that+would+move+centre+ha...
Former party president Brian Topp — once viewed as the candidate to beat — seems to be losing strength. This, despite the fact he has been endorsed by party establishment types including former Saskatchewan premier Roy Romanow and one-time federal leader Ed Broadbent.
Niki Ashton, MP from northern Manitoba, and Martin Singh, a Nova Scotia pharmacist, are thought to be well behind.
The seven faced off for 90 minutes in the final of six official party debates, this one on challenges facing youth and new Canadians.
An overflow crowd of more than 1,000 showed up for the event at CBC headquarters.
In instances during the debate when contenders were directed to specifically challenge a fellow candidate on a policy issue, most set sights on Mulcair while Cullen got the second most challenges, as if to confirm these two are the greatest threats to the others seeking victory.
“You’ve been critical about our party,” Nash chastised Mulcair at one point.
“It seems like you are a little down on the party,” intoned Dewar. “Where is your plan for inspiration?”
Mulcair, known for his temper, maintained his cool and succeeded in looking dignified and leader-like.
For his part, he lobbed softball questions whenever he was called upon to challenge his competitors, doubtless cognizant of the fact that post-convention, he may have to draw together all members of his caucus, including those less enthused at the prospect of his leadership.
Mon, 2012-03-12 18:14
#60
it's true, if mulcair does win, the party and media have done a lot of work to insulate him from attacks from the right, which is a nice place to be for the ndp at the federal level.
still waiting for the media to pick up on topp's performance. so far, it's just cullen and mulcair. interesting. could be that he didn't make the impression i thought he did, could be that it's already too late.
it's strange though, because looking back, there's no discernable instance of the federal ndp picking an outsider as leader, and certainly mulcair and cullen could make a claim to that label viz the others. my brain says mulcair will win, but my gut says he won't, and i'm waiting for something (i thought yesterday's debate and resulting media) to begin the rapprochement between the two, one way or the other.
Mon, 2012-03-12 18:14
#61
The problem is it's hard to examine intentions. A lot of people might have ageist and sexist beliefs -- even progressive people -- that might color how they view Ashton. She might have similar qualities as the other candidates, but they're perceived differently coming from her.
I take FFK's comment at face value, because I think it's fair to point out that Paul Dewar is by far the most vapid candidate in the race. And he has no excuse as a middle aged white guy ;)
Mon, 2012-03-12 21:10
#62
it's true, if mulcair does win, the party and media have done a lot of work to insulate him from attacks from the right, which is a nice place to be for the ndp at the federal level.
Even if not, it means the NDP has avoided the fate of the Republican Party whose presidential candidates have focused on appealing to the ultra-conservative (and perhaps unhinged) bedrock of the party to such an extent that it threatens their chances with the general public.
Tue, 2012-03-13 00:09
#63
Mulcair wants to expand the carbon reduction proposal to affect more companies than the 2011 platform. Everything else has been at least an echo or an expansion of the 2011 platform, although not necessarily leftward.
Mostly his cap and trade plan, but also the fincial transaction tax, which I don't think the 2011 platform had (could be wrong). I didn't say hugely to the left of the party platform, but with all the headlines that Mulcair wants to move the NDP to the centre I find it ironic that his platform would shift it to the left, even if slightly. Also Mulcair has not ruled out income tax increases, which the party platform did. In fact Mulcair talked about closing income tax loop holes, which lets be honest, an income tax increase, just not by percentages. Depending on how liberal Mulcair is in how he defines loop holes it could even be a massive income tax increase. I could argue that all those boutique tax credits are just fancy loopholes and tax credits are well over a hundred billion dollars. Half that would be 50 billion.
For me, policies include details.
How much revenue might cap and trade generate? What would be done with the revenue? How would the prices of goods be affected? We have no idea.
Sure, you could just say it is the NDP plan, with more awesomeness (substitute leftness for awesomeness if you wish). But nobody knows much about that plan either.
Mulcair isn't giving us any numbers with cap and trade.
And then the financial transaction tax comes up again? The FTT that nobody knows a single detail about, because Mulcair nevers talks about it beyond token references.
And then we hear that Mulcair is more left wing than the 2011 platform. This stuff doesn't mean anything.
I will likely vote for Mulcair by the last ballot anyway. IMO, while they're all competent and inspiring enough as politicians, none of them are really rising above that standard or giving us something extraordinary.
If Cullen weren't weak in French/Quebec I'd be jumping on board in a big way. As it stands, if on the 1st ballot Mulcair gets above 40% and Ashton, Topp and Cullen all fail to break %15 then I will be uniting behind Mulcair on the 2nd ballot.
Tue, 2012-03-13 00:16
#64
Boom Boom
If Mulcair wins, he will have SO MUCH POLITICAL CAPITAL to go stridently left because of how he's been painted.
If that ever happens, then he's an idiot, because in the next election Harper will reduce the NDP back to third and maybe fourth party staus.
Tue, 2012-03-13 00:30
#65
If Mulcair wins, he will have SO MUCH POLITICAL CAPITAL to go stridently left because of how he's been painted.
If that ever happens, then he's an idiot, because in the next election Harper will reduce the NDP back to third and maybe fourth party staus.
I don't want put words into Winston's mouth, but I thought he meant if Mulcair wins and becomes Prime Minister. But I could be wrong.
Tue, 2012-03-13 00:34
#66
Boom Boom
Oh - okay, that makes sense.
Tue, 2012-03-13 04:20
#67
Idealistic Prag...
still waiting for the media to pick up on topp's performance. so far, it's just cullen and mulcair. interesting. could be that he didn't make the impression i thought he did, could be that it's already too late.
I think it's the latter; and more specifically, that a good performance by Topp doesn't fit into the current media narrative.
But to give them some credit, I'm actually not convinced that it mattered within the race itself, i.e., that Topp actually won anyone over to his side with that last performance. If you were already planning on voting for Topp, you probably feel more secure in your choice now. If you were already planning on ranking him somewhere toward the top of your ballot, you might now rank him second instead of third. But I don't think he moved any mountains. And the media folks probably know that.
Tue, 2012-03-13 04:25
#68
I don't want put words into Winston's mouth, but I thought he meant if Mulcair wins and becomes Prime Minister. But I could be wrong.
No words put at all - that's exactly what I meant. If Mulcair wins a general election after having been painted as an unrepentant centrist, then he has far more power to slip something in under the radar thatn someone who the right-wing media is watching like a hawk for the first sign of leftist "excess".