test test test 123 testing
NDP leadership race #133
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:31
#1
NDP leadership race #133
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:41
#2
it didn't work.
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:53
#3
...was waiting so long for someone to start 133 but I got tired of waiting and decided to do it myself cause enquiring minds wanna know.
The end of the last thread, though I hate to call it that as it was more of a hemp rope leading to a noose, had something about Muclair being sued for 95,000. I kinda wanted to ask for proof but the thing was closed and then the longer I waited for 133 to open the more I didn't care for proof.
Why?
Because I remembered feeling something like this in last years election when the Conservative pulled out the info about Jack visiting a "massage parlour" that got busted while he was there. Really people, who are anti-Muclair, you really think this is worthy? And I am saying this as someone who ranked him outside of my first 3.
I sure hope I can believe those who say brilliant strategy by Mr Broadbent defaming Muclair to get the leadership convention into the news. Then I could believe this might be a equally as brilliant ploy to desensitize NDP supporting women when the Conservatives use it to attack Muclair if he becomes leader.
... it boggles the mind that St Jack made him a deputy leader let alone let him into the NDP.
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:56
#4
... it boggles the mind that St Jack made him a deputy leader let alone let him into the NDP.
This is sarcastic
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:58
#5
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=c5ad812f-0622-4...
Yeah, Mulcair called someone a "pequise slut". I have no idea whether that's French or English. He lost a lawsuit for defamation. If that doesn't calm you down, nothing will.
Frankly, I think that slamming the separatists that hard will play pretty well in the rest of Canada. I also think a little fight is a good thing, to go up against Harper.
But ideally, I'd prefer someone with the tone of Nathan Cullen. He reminds me of Jack in that he can speak forcefully and even launch some attacks, but they still come across as nice and honest guys.
Mon, 2012-03-19 19:58
#6
Le Devoir today ran a piece that systematically refutes Broadbent's allegations against Mulcair. You should all read this:
http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/345410/miner-son-champ
Mon, 2012-03-19 20:00
#7
Well I'll be a sissy's rib.
Mon, 2012-03-19 20:04
#8
Well I'll be a sissy's rib.
Well played, sir.
Mon, 2012-03-19 21:00
#9
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=c5ad812f-0622-4...
Yeah, Mulcair called someone a "pequise slut". I have no idea whether that's French or English. He lost a lawsuit for defamation. If that doesn't calm you down, nothing will.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/03/16/thomas-mulcair-is-mr-angry/
Then less than a week after Baril resigned, a La Presse story alleged that Yves Duhaime, a lawyer and former Péquiste minister, had leveraged his friendship with Premier Bernard Landry to land a $180,000 lobbying contract. Duhaime denied everything during an appearance on a popular television show, but on the same show Mulcair accused him of influence peddling and brandished excerpts of the Criminal Code to support his case. Later, after the taping, Duhaime confronted Mulcair and accused him of defamation, to which, according to a Quebec Superior Court judgement, Mulcair responded: “I’m looking forward to seeing you in prison,” before using an extremely vulgar French term to describe him.
In 2005, Justice André Denis decided Mulcair’s televised indictment of Duhaime and his off-camera bon mot were indeed defamatory, to the tune of $95,000. The justice’s judgment was particularly damning. “We are of the impression that Mr. Duhaime was a simple contingency in the war [Mulcair] is waging against the government leader,” wrote Judge Denis. “Why wish to see him in prison? Why suggest that Mr. Duhaime is prostituting himself?
Mon, 2012-03-19 21:09
#10
Le Devoir today ran a piece that systematically refutes Broadbent's allegations against Mulcair. You should all read this:
http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/345410/miner-son-champ
Thanks. Recommended.
The whole affair gives the impression that, for the Topp camp, it is not "anyone but Mulcair," but "après moi le déluge".
Mon, 2012-03-19 21:30
#11
Mon, 2012-03-19 21:51
#12
From the comments section of the Maclean's article:
Random fun fact: Mulcair's "extremely vulgar French term" to describe Duhaime was:
"Crisse de vieille plotte sale péquiste!"
Mon, 2012-03-19 22:18
#13
Gee... sounds a lot like what Mulcair has said on the issue... not just leaping into a decision... http://youtu.be/Z3f5PIfzw-s
Mon, 2012-03-19 22:18
#14
Hoodeet (JW)
From the comments section of the Maclean's article:
Random fun fact: Mulcair's "extremely vulgar French term" to describe Duhaime was:
"Crisse de vieille plotte sale péquiste!"
Untranslateable, hélas. Dragged word for word into English it would lose its rich flavour of centuries of simmering that is the stew of old French and Québecois.
Why can't we swear and insult like that in English?
P.S.: Perhaps there should be a comma or exclamation mark after "plotte".
Mon, 2012-03-19 22:37
#15
I'm curious. What's the flavor of the insult? It's been translated as "slut". Are there undertones of gender?
Mon, 2012-03-19 22:38
#16
actually, that's very translateable, but it is very vulgar.
Mon, 2012-03-19 23:00
#17
I'm not sure how having a potty mouth on occasion is supposed to disqualify someone from leadership. Sounds downright prime ministerial based on past examples.
Mon, 2012-03-19 23:06
#18
Fuddle duddle! lol
Mon, 2012-03-19 23:08
#19
haha, "there's only room for one drunk in this government and unfortunately for you, mcgee, that position's already taken."
Mon, 2012-03-19 23:13
#20
Holy Smokes!
I have to commend everyone here on their very obviously good will restraint today concerning the Le Devoir article today entitled "Miner son champ"
Mon, 2012-03-19 23:49
#21
well, i think the broadbent thing has passed, but if you want to get into the devoir article, here's the most pertinent part:
M. Mulcair ne s'attribue pas tout le mérite des gains du 2 mai dernier, mais une bonne partie, et à raison. Sa première victoire dans Outremont est la sienne. Il était porté par la vague de popularité que lui ont valu ses positions environnementales et son départ du cabinet Charest. Tous les partis le savaient et le courtisaient. Peu importe l'organisation mise en place par le NPD, il n'aurait jamais arraché la forteresse libérale d'Outremont sans une tête d'affiche.
Et une fois élu, Thomas Mulcair a donné au NPD une voix et un visage familiers au Québec, ce qui a permis de bâtir lentement, mais sûrement, sa crédibilité. M. Broadbent, tout comme les candidats Brian Topp, Peggy Nash, Paul Dewar et Niki Ashton, fait une erreur d'évaluation ahurissante quand ils affirment que le parti a gagné au Québec en restant lui-même et qu'il suffit de répéter la même chose pour percer ailleurs.
C'est nier la réalité. Le NPD a profité d'un alignement unique des astres: familiarité nouvelle avec le parti, ras-le-bol des Québécois face aux partis traditionnels, désir d'une solution de rechange progressiste aux conservateurs et présence d'un chef charismatique menant une campagne impeccable. Oui, il y a eu un effet Layton.
Le programme et les politiques du NPD ont été secondaires. L'organisation encore plus. Quelques députés ont été élus sans mettre les pieds dans leur circonscription. Ceux qui ont fait campagne, et c'est la très grande majorité, l'ont fait sans moyens ni association locale digne de ce nom. Ne pas le reconnaître équivaut à avouer qu'on n'a rien compris à ce qui se passait au Québec et qu'on ne le comprend toujours pas.
this is bang on, and i hope the membership understands that some of the candidates are either deluded (nash doesn't get what happened), ignorant (dewar couldn't get it if it were carefully explained to him at a 4th grade level) or straight-up deception (topp knows what went down, but tells a story more convenient to his campaign themes). the one guy who actually explains what went down is accused of taking credit where not due and of blackmailing the membership.
ETA a quick translation of mine:
"mulcair doesn't take all of the credit for the gains of May 2, but he does take credit for a good part of them, and rightly so. his first victory in outremont was his own. the victory came on the back of a wave of popularity that he earned with his environmental positions and departure from the charest cabinet. all parties recognized his popularity and all parties courted him. regardless of whatever infrastructure the NDP put in place in the riding, the party would never have taken the liberal stronghold of outremont without a poster boy.
and once elected, mulcair gave the ndp a familiar voice and a familiar face in quebec, which allowed the party to build its credibility slowly but surely. broadbent, like the candidates topp, nash, dewar and ashton, makes a staggering miscalculation when he claims that the party won in quebec by being what it is and that victory elsewhere is as simple as continuing in the same vein.
that's denying reality. in quebec, the ndp seized upon a unique alignment of the stars: a new familiarity with the party, a desire among quebecois for a clean sweep of the traditional parties, the desire for a progressive alternative to the governing conservatives, and the presence of a charismatic leader running a flawless campaign. yes, there was a layton effect.
the program and policies of the ndp were secondary. the organization, even more so. some mps were elected without setting foot in their constituencies. those who campaigned, and this is the vast majority, did so without means nor riding associations worthy of the name. not to recognize these basic factors is to admit that one understood nothing at all about what happened in quebec as it happened and understands nothing still."
Tue, 2012-03-20 00:17
#22
actually, that's very translateable, but it is very vulgar.
Yes. I tried to get a translation through Google, and the results were pretty "interesting" and "educating" as far as the nature of making insults en Francais/Quebecois.
Tue, 2012-03-20 01:05
#23
Did anyone else get that e-mail from the Mulcair Campaign that featured a poll which had a hypothetical NDP lead by Thomas Mulcair tied with the Conservatives?
Tue, 2012-03-20 01:43
#24
It just occurred to me that if Mulcair wins - he will be the first ever CCF/NDP leader who is Catholic (not that i think he is particularly devout what with having a Jewish wife etc...):
Woodsworth - Protestant clergyman,
Coldwell - anglican teacher,
Douglas - Baptist minister,
Lewis - Jewish
Broadbent - born Anglican but described himself as a non-practising Druid :-)
McLaughlin - United (I believe)
MacDonough - Protestant of some sort
Layton - United
...anyways, in this day and age this is no big deal - i just thought it was interesting to note that the NDP has never had a Catholic leader before.
Tue, 2012-03-20 02:35
#25
I think Niki Ashton is Greek Catholic i believe?
Tue, 2012-03-20 06:47
#26
LAWRENCE MARTIN
All parties have a stake in the NDP leadership race
Tue, 2012-03-20 07:00
#27
A Conservative perspective:
Blogging Tories Challenge: Could You Live with Thomas Mulcair as the Next Prime Minister?
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:11
#28
Judging from the comments sections in recent articles, it seems that a lot of non-Dippers are liking Nathan Cullen. I wonder if the potential loss in some Quebec seats would be negated by winning more seats in the RoC (especially out West) if Cullen were to win. I kinda wish I ranked him second behind Topp now. At least he shares his upper-income taxation strategy.
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:30
#29
It just occurred to me that if Mulcair wins - he will be the first ever CCF/NDP leader who is Catholic (not that i think he is particularly devout what with having a Jewish wife etc...):
She can't be too devout either, what with having a Catholic husband.
I wonder whose Hell burns hotter for intermarrying... Any theologists in the crowd?
By the way, glad to know Niki is Greek Catholic. Would she look better with or without glasses? And what about Mulcair? Would glasses soften his aggressive mien, or would they highlight the beard even more and provide an evil quasi-professorial type look?
And Cullen... has he considered hair transplants? And what's his religion? What about his spouse - same, or different?
You understand why I have proposed that the NDP leadership race be extended for a few more years. So many questions, so few answers.
Could You Live with Thomas Mulcair as the Next Prime Minister?
Only with my partner's permission.
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:33
#30
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:34
#31
Niki is probably Greek Orthodox.
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:37
#32
Isn't PCness somewhat worse than the perhaps naive idea of being able to mention folks religion in this case? How bloody nice it would be if discussion was open to such revelations WITH THE INTENTION of Stockholm's?
Or is that too great an abstraction?
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:43
#33
Judging from the comments sections in recent articles, it seems that a lot of non-Dippers are liking Nathan Cullen. I wonder if the potential loss in some Quebec seats would be negated by winning more seats in the RoC (especially out West) if Cullen were to win. I kinda wish I ranked him second behind Topp now. At least he shares his upper-income taxation strategy.
Nathan has some solid support, however, I don't think his public image of the "pro-business" "cooperator" would withstand serious scrutiny. He is for large tax increases on business and individuals (particularly wealthy individuals), major shutdowns in the resource sector, and uses some of the most partisan rhetoric I've ever heard in private and to a (much) lesser extent in public. So, I think Nathan has done a great job and will ballot very well, however, I hope he doesn't win. His plan to rebuild the Liberal party also worries me. It + his charisma seems to be what is driving his surge.
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:45
#34
Isn't PCness somewhat worse than the perhaps naive idea of being able to mention folks religion in this case? How bloody nice it would be if discussion was open to such revelations WITH THE INTENTION of Stockholm's? Or is that too great an abstraction?
What kind of under-arm deodorant do the candidates use?
And any idea which of them are cheating on their spouses?
How about a list of politically incorrect words they've used during hockey games or other sports activities since, oh, let's say, birth?
And this religion stuff is all well and good. But shouldn't the candidates tell us how often they go to church? And when they pray, do they mean it?
And how about that Mulcair: Does he support Pope Ratzinger? If he identifies as a Catholic, isn't it a matter of public interest to know? Ratzinger said that politicians who support women's right to choose should be denied communion. Has Mulcair attended Mass recently? Did he have a snack? What's the name of the priest / deacon who stuck the wafer in his mouth?
So many questions, so few answers.
Tue, 2012-03-20 10:46
#35
Good stuff, Unionist (your last comment, which was very funny). You also raise the issue of how perception may influence the support of a leader, from why one doesn't just shave his head altogether (fear of being mistaken for Cullen?), why another doesn't explain his wife's thoughts on Zionism (and did they have a mixed wedding ceremony? in what religion are they raising their children? what do bishops/conservative rabbis think?), or how another one is better or worse for being Catholic than Greek Orthodox, etc. (what religion is her father, anyway?)... Totally irrelevant to a candidate's performance, values, ideas, but somehow nagging things that the opposition might resort to as "dog whistles" exaggerating public perception and playing on prejudice. All too disgusting.
The U.S. political "carnies" influencing Canadian politics?
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:00
#36
4 themes from the NDP leadership race
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/20/pol-four-ndp-leadership...
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:01
#37
Catherine Mulcair (Pinhas) will become national news,and I cannot wait for the contrasts to be made with the partners of other leaders. There will be no comparison. (But, then, this is just the rambling of one awestruck old greeter reduced to superlatives).
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:05
#38
Some folks just don't when to quit.
After reading that Miner son champ article in Le Devoir yesterday I don't know why Topp just doesn't drop out.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Mulcair+plan+toxic+Topp+says/6328835/sto...
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:09
#39
But how could you doubt the nefarious intentions of the source that sought him out? :
Mulcair's plan toxic for NDP, Topp says
By Mark Kennedy, Postmedia News March 20, 2012
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:13
#40
I don't for a second.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NDP's front-runner 'strident' on oilsands
Mulcair blunt, frequent critic
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/front+runner+strident+oilsands/6...
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:22
#41
I do like Topp's position on the CBC.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/ndp-leadership-c...
Even the apparent front-runner, Thomas Mulcair – who is accused by some of his rivals of trying to turn the NDP into a second Liberal Party or, perhaps worse, a Blairite one – proposes to double the maximum benefit under the Canada Pension Plan. Indeed, this doubling of the CPP with little explanation of how to pay for it is a common theme among the candidates. And Mr. Mulcair would try to reopen Canada’s existing international trade agreements, as well as add to the Investment Canada Act, in ways that would favour the interests of labour unions.
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:28
#42
Which is probably good.
Analysis: Mulcair’s oil sands stance puts him at odds with Alberta, despite assurances of support
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/19/analysis-mulcairs-oilsands-stanc...
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:29
#43
Catherine Mulcair (Pinhas) ...
Her name is Catherine Pinhas. There's no "Mulcair" anywhere in her name. Women in Québec are not allowed, by law, to abandon their identity and assume that of their husband. Hope that's not too PC for your taste, but that's just the way we are here.
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:40
#44
Haha, unionist's comments are the highlight of this thread #133 so far.
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:43
#45
Tom Mulcair received a number of good Ontario endorsements this morning:
Two sitting Ontario MPPs, Michael Prue (Beaches) and Teresa Armstrong (London Fanshaw),
Two former MPPs, Oduardo di Santo and Davis Warner (also a former Speaker)
Two former MPS and federal leadersship candidates: Steven Langdon and John Harney.
It is noteworthy where past NDP leadership candidates have come down. Here is my count which may not be precise:
Mulcair: Harney, James Laxer, Lorne Nysrom, Ian Waddell, Langdon = 5
Topp: Broadbent = 1
Nash: McDonough =1
Non-alligned: Dave Barrett, Audrey McLaughlin, Svend Robinson, Bill Blaikie, Joe Comartin =5
Deceased: David Lewis, Frank Howard, Simon DeJong = 3
Left the party: Howard McCurdy =1.
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:46
#46
Back in January, I thought we'd get to 150 threads by convention day. I think we'll be lucky to hit 140.
Step your game up, guys. Someone call one of the candidates the "c" word or something.
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:51
#47
Isn't "sissy" good enough? It ate up a whole thread and a half
Tue, 2012-03-20 11:57
#48
Tom Mulcair received a number of good Ontario endorsements this morning:
Two sitting Ontario MPPs, Michael Prue (Beaches) and Teresa Armstrong (London Fanshaw),
Two former MPPs, Oduardo di Santo and Davis Warner (also a former Speaker)
Two former MPS and federal leadersship candidates: Steven Langdon and John Harney.
It is noteworthy where past NDP leadership candidates have come down. Here is my count which may not be precise:
Mulcair: Harney, James Laxer, Lorne Nysrom, Ian Waddell, Langdon = 5
Topp: Broadbent = 1
Nash: McDonough =1
Non-alligned: Dave Barrett, Audrey McLaughlin, Svend Robinson, Bill Blaikie, Joe Comartin =5
Deceased: David Lewis, Frank Howard, Simon DeJong = 3
Left the party: Howard McCurdy =1.
France Gelinas also came out to back Mulcair too... Did you mean David Warner?
Tue, 2012-03-20 12:01
#49
Isn't "sissy" good enough? It ate up a whole thread and a half
According to those calculations, we need someone to call someone else a sissy twice a day until the date of the convention, in order to reach 140. If we can do 4 times a day, we have a shot at 150.
Let's roll up our sleeves and get to work, you fuddle duddles!
Tue, 2012-03-20 12:09
#50
Catherine Mulcair (Pinhas) ...Her name is Catherine Pinhas. There's no "Mulcair" anywhere in her name. Women in Québec are not allowed, by law, to abandon their identity and assume that of their husband. Hope that's not too PC for your taste, but that's just the way we are here.
Like Stockholm, I speak from an honest-to-Gaia ignorance/naivete.
Anyway, I can't wait to see her interviewed and the dead hand of PC and the concomitant whisper campaigns of the Conservative campaigners ended entirely, second in their repugnance only to the assumptions of the morally correct and perfect.
Tue, 2012-03-20 12:10
#51
Tom Mulcair received a number of good Ontario endorsements this morning:
Two sitting Ontario MPPs, Michael Prue (Beaches) and Teresa Armstrong (London Fanshaw),
Two former MPPs, Oduardo di Santo and Davis Warner (also a former Speaker)
Two former MPS and federal leadersship candidates: Steven Langdon and John Harney.
It is noteworthy where past NDP leadership candidates have come down. Here is my count which may not be precise:
Mulcair: Harney, James Laxer, Lorne Nysrom, Ian Waddell, Langdon = 5
Topp: Broadbent = 1
Nash: McDonough =1
Non-alligned: Dave Barrett, Audrey McLaughlin, Svend Robinson, Bill Blaikie, Joe Comartin =5
Deceased: David Lewis, Frank Howard, Simon DeJong = 3
Left the party: Howard McCurdy =1.
That is actually a fairly diverse list:
John Harney - first fluently bilingual candidate pushing growth in Quebec by my memory
James Laxer - father of nationalist/socialist "Waffle", runner up to Broadbent
Lorne Nystrom - one of most "moderate" candidates who had strong support in western Canada
Steven Langdon - associated with Ontario Labour establishment wing of NDP