only 75 minutes since I opened the last thread
Issues Pages:
NDP Leadership # 140
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:30
#1
NDP Leadership # 140
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:32
#2
First Convention Ballot:(Opens:
Closes:March 23 2012 - 17:00 PM
March 24 2012 - 09:00 AMHAS VOTED
Second Convention Ballot
Opens:
Closes:March 24 2012 - 11:00 AM
March 24 2012 - 12:15 PMCLOSED
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:32
#3
The NDP doesn't have "camps".
It's just a bunch of people running completely disorganized.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:32
#4
.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:37
#5
My guess is that voting will be extended again becaue problems continue.
And yes- Internet Explorer would probably make it harder. Unless radiorahim says otherwise.
Even if you have never used it, Firefox must be on your computer.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:37
#6
When do they announce the results of the second ballot?
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:38
#7
LOL.
Some BC MLA: "Without doubt, Brian Topp has the most NDP support in British Columbia".
It makes me sad that even the NDP can spin like this.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:40
#8
LOL.
Some BC MLA: "Without doubt, Brian Topp has the most NDP support in British Columbia".
It makes me sad that even the NDP can spin like this.
Cullen must have an awful lot. And I know Mulcair does too. Topp has a number of MLAs supporting him though.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:40
#9
If you couldnt vote on this round, the second is highly unlikely to be the last.
If it is true that maybe a lot of people were voting for the first time this round, would the first time use of log in material put more pressure on the server?
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:41
#10
If you couldnt vote on this round, the second is highly unlikely to be the last.
If it is true that maybe a lot of people were voting for the first time this round, would the first time use of log in material put more pressure on the server?
And voting over a shorter period of time.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:42
#11
LOL.
Some BC MLA: "Without doubt, Brian Topp has the most NDP support in British Columbia".
It makes me sad that even the NDP can spin like this.
Cullen must have an awful lot. And I know Mulcair does too. Topp has a number of MLAs supporting him though.
This is the point. There's no way of knowing "without doubt" who has the most support anywhere.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:43
#12
CLC supports all 4 of the candidates that are left in the race
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:44
#13
RevolutionPlease
Extended to 1:15. Got in and voted finally. Go sdm, try firefox if you have it.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:45
#14
These computer glitches would be a catatrophe if a candidate is dropped off the ballot because they are only a few votes behind the second last candidate.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:45
#15
CLC supports all 4 of the candidates that are left in the race
Quite often the CLC impresses me.
This is one of those times.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:46
#16
CLC supports all 4 of the candidates that are left in the race
Not really. That's Ken Georgetti, speaking for himself. He also criticized Sid Ryan for using "words of division" by the way he took sides.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:47
#17
These computer glitches would be a catatrophe if a candidate is dropped off the ballot because they are only a few votes behind the second last candidate.
An argument against online voting.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:47
#18
RevolutionPlease
Let's just hope this doesn't lead to calls for more fellow NDP'ers to be fired. It was frustrating but so is being a Dipper. We persevere.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:48
#19
well, considering the disastrous balloting package roll-out, these internet voting problems are no real surprise.
the only surprise is how strongly topp performed, though like i said in another thread, by all accounts, his ground team wasn't going to leave a single vote on the table.
something tells me that if mulcair doesn't do particularly well in the 2nd round (40%), that topp will win this thing.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:49
#20
well, considering the disastrous balloting package roll-out, these internet voting problems are no real surprise.
the only surprise is how strongly topp performed, though like i said in another thread, by all accounts, his ground team wasn't going to leave a single vote on the table.
something tells me that if mulcair doesn't do particularly well in the 2nd round (40%), that topp will win this thing.
In some ways this is surprising, but in other ways isn't 20% a fairly poor first ballot showing, given the shock and awe Lingenfelter style campaign?
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:51
#21
Though I've seen no polls of Cullen supporters, I'm doubtful of the the idea that Cullen supporters would go mainly to Mulcair because of sympatico positions.
Cullen's major appeal, I suspect, is not that he has been described as, like Mulcair, wanting to move the party further to the right, it is his focus on beating Harper in a broken FPTP multiparty system. Hence the support from people like Naomi Klein.
Those who like the Mulcair rightward trajectory would mostly already be in Mulcair's camp.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:52
#22
Unionist
Good to hear from you.
I didn't think the CLC had taken a position on the leadership - was I incorrect about that? That is the impression I was left with listening to Ken.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:53
#23
Cullen is doing so well - quite amazin' really when you think about it.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:53
#24
What is shock and awe to you does not make it shock and awe.
It never was. And the Topp campaign has been showing that it is running from behind for a long time.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:54
#25
What is shock and awe to you does not make it shock and awe.
It never was. And has been showing that it is running from behind for a long time.
How many prominent New Democrats endorsed Topp before they even knew who else was running?
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:54
#26
Voting has been extended to 10:15 AM Vancouver time.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:55
#27
voting again extended to 1:15
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:55
#28
Dawn Black just announced on CBC that BC voters are having trouble voting. This reinforces my earlier comment that the party needs to try to rectify the realtime online voting process as this was a problem at the BC leadership convention also. I never got to vote at that one after the first ballot despite trying continuously.That's why I will never vote using realtime online voting again. I recommend that people vote early in the future if they are confident about how to vote for in order to make sure their vote counts and to reduce online traffic, making it easier for others voting late.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:55
#29
Though I've seen no polls of Cullen supporters, I'm doubtful of the the idea that Cullen supporters would go mainly to Mulcair because of sympatico positions.
Cullen's major appeal, I suspect, is not that he has been described as, like Mulcair, wanting to move the party further to the right, it is his focus on beating Harper in a broken FPTP multiparty system. Hence the support from people like Naomi Klein.
As I've said before, at least Cullen takes his position to its logical conclusion. If you're going to have two Liberal parties, you might as well have one.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:56
#30
Interested Observer
Naomi Klein @NaomiAKlein
I support @nathancullen b/c he is as serious about beating Harper as Mulcair, but policies r more left. Not about personality #ndpldr
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:56
#31
I don't think these glitches should be blamed on the NDP. I think the NDP contracted out the online election process to an independent company. If memory serves me right, last year both the BC NDP and BC Liberals contracted their online elections to the same company.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:56
#32
from http://live.ndp.ca/leadership2012
#NDPLdr voting extended again on 2nd ballot to 1345 EDT/1045 Pacific. Party says reason is: High volume.
keep trying folks!
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:58
#33
Catchfire
OH FOR GODS SAKE SOMEONE TAKE IT ALREADY
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:58
#34
I am a Mulcair supporter and very much on the left of the party. I don't accept the characterization of Mulcair's message as moving the party to the right. For goodness sakes look at our platform from the last election. It was hardly based on the Regina Manifesto
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:59
#35
Naomi Klein @NaomiAKlein
I support @nathancullen b/c he is as serious about beating Harper as Mulcair, but policies r more left. Not about personality #ndpldr
I'd like for her to explain how his policies are more to the left.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:59
#36
Only about 10,000 people voted real time on the 1st ballot, and for anyone who voted prior to real time their 1st ballot choice stays until they drop off. There is not a lot of wriggle room here.
Sat, 2012-03-24 12:59
#37
Unionist
Good to hear from you.
I didn't think the CLC had taken a position on the leadership - was I incorrect about that? That is the impression I was left with listening to Ken.
Glad to be here! Was busy this morning.
The CLC couldn't possibly take a position - some of its biggest affiliates are supporting different candidates. I've already expressed my view that unions which support a candidate, based on some decision of a small leading clique, are doing a huge disservice to their members and to OMOV. Ken Georgetti is absolutely right (I don't often say this!) and Sid Ryan's divisive comments are just that. There is not enough significant difference involved here for a leader of a federation of unions to lend his name to or against one candidate.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:00
#38
Idealistic Prag...
I hope that if Mulcair is going to win, that it won't take round after round to get him there. I still have my concerns about him as leader (just like I do all of the other candidates, to be honest), but I think it would be particularly disunifying for the party to have Mulcair as leader if a sizeable chunk of the support that got him there is grudging support.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:00
#39
D'oh, I lost a whole big post in that last thread! :)
Here's how I feel about the candidates left standing (not including Mulcair, since I know you all know how I feel about him!)
Topp - I would choose him over Mulcair, but obviously that's not saying much. I do have concerns about his politics, though. He's not lefty enough for my liking. However, his saving grace is that I think he is not the type to stifle the activists or people in the party who are further left than him, and that's huge. He's not the best speaker in the world, but that can be helped with coaching. Basically, I'm kind of lukewarm on him, but could be swayed either way.
Cullen - He is the best communicator of the whole lot of candidates, all seven. That's huge too. He also seems like someone who is quite comfortable with internal debate. I think his cooperation plan has been exaggerated into something more nefarious than it is by the media and other leadership camps. I don't like what he had to say about Quebec sovereigntists and that raises concerns for me - a lot of lefties in Quebec lean towards either sovereignty or somewhere along the spectrum, and making clumsy statements about that could compromise support there. The NDP has a lot to learn about progressive politics in Quebec, and his leadership could hamper that. But that's the kind of thing that can be learned through dialogue and he seems open to that, so I wouldn't consider him to be the end of the world as leader.
Nash - I'm shocked that she came in 4th. I like her politics the best of all of them - strong on labour, social movements, social justice, and economics. That's a huge deal too. My impression is that she's the leftiest of all of them and that is extremely appealing. She's not the most dynamic speaker ever, but I do think she's a better speaker than Topp. But...she came in 4th, and I don't see a path to victory for her on the next ballots.
I think they all have good enough French to become the leader, from what I've heard and read about their language skills (unfortunately, I can't judge for myself since I don't speak French). I'm not one of those folks who thinks you have to speak French like you're 4th generation from Quebec in order to lead the party, just as I don't think you have to sound like you've been speaking English for four generations to lead it. Otherwise we would never have an immigrant from a non-French or English speaking country leading the party ever.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:01
#40
DP.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:02
#41
What is shock and awe to you does not make it shock and awe.
It never was. And has been showing that it is running from behind for a long time.
How many prominent New Democrats endorsed Topp before they even knew who else was running?
Take a powder man.
Topp knew he had to come out fast.
And why should people hold back endorsing if they know who they want? There are LOTS of us who are usually in the position going into a leadership race of being already commited to someone. I was not this time. Ditto for a lot of others. But being commited before it really starts is normal. Those are the backbone of any campaign.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:03
#42
Wow @ voting issues. My friend in the online voting business said, and I posted this weeks ago, that there would be issues. Remains to be seen why but he said the Spanish company wouldn't pull it off smoothly.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:04
#43
I don't think these glitches should be blamed on the NDP.
I noted x2 earlier that if people are using Internet Explorer to try and vote they will not get through. I tried for an hour yesterday and could not so I thought i would just try another browse-Firefox- and was done in under 3 minutes!
People at headquarters should be sharing that in the bulk extended voting emails going out right now
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:05
#44
I hope that if Mulcair is going to win, that it won't take round after round to get him there.
Is 4 rounds too many?
It is virtually guaranteed to go for at least 3.
I think its a toss up between 3 and 4 rounds.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:07
#45
infracaninophile
Voting extended till 1:15. Try the French site, I finally got through.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:08
#46
Thanks Unionist
I could not agree more.
I can understand people not supporting Mulcair
But where is this Mulcair is right wing coming from which to me is absurd from any comments I have heard coming from him.
And the same for Cullen. People in BC have a good laugh when things are suggested like this.
Unionist
Good to hear from you.
I didn't think the CLC had taken a position on the leadership - was I incorrect about that? That is the impression I was left with listening to Ken.
Glad to be here! Was busy this morning.
The CLC couldn't possibly take a position - some of its biggest affiliates are supporting different candidates. I've already expressed my view that unions which support a candidate, based on some decision of a small leading clique, are doing a huge disservice to their members and to OMOV. Ken Georgetti is absolutely right (I don't often say this!) and Sid Ryan's divisive comments are just that. There is not enough significant difference involved here for a leader of a federation of unions to lend his name to or against one candidate.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:08
#47
Heres the numbers of the first round of voting:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/leadership+convention+Thomas+Mulcair+le...
The first ballot results were as follows:
¥ Mulcair: 19,728 votes (30.3 per cent)
¥ Former party president Brian Topp: 13,915 votes (21.4 per cent)
¥ British Columbia MP Nathan Cullen: 10,671 votes (16.4 per cent)
¥ Toronto MP Peggy Nash: 8,353 votes (12.8 per cent)
¥ Ottawa MP Paul Dewar: 4,883 votes (7.5 per cent)
¥ Nova Scotia pharmacist Martin Singh: 3,821 votes (5.9 per cent)
¥ Manitoba MP Niki Ashton: 3,737 votes (5.7 per cent)
Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/leadership+convention+Thomas+Mulcair+leads+after+first+ballot/6354649/story.html#ixzz1q3TCUIBh
Ashton, Singh and Dewar all out. Looks like its shaping up pretty much as many had predicted, but if goes more than another round there could be some surprises.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:09
#48
Sigh :)
My girlfriend just voted for Brian Topp. We were very impressed by his speech.
I just voted for Nathan Cullen. Looking at the voter turnout made me realize that the establishment candidates can't increase voter turnout and excitement. This guy has the best chance of doing that.
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:10
#49
I think it would be particularly disunifying for the party to have Mulcair as leader if a sizeable chunk of the support that got him there is grudging support.
I dont know abut that. I put him down for #3, of only 3 choices I made. I think I would fit the bill as 'grudging support'.
If it comes to that, so what?
[People who say they will no longer participate, or know it but do not announce it.... that is different. But even that, if there is any amount of differentiation among candidates, some of that is inevitable. Lots of people fail to preface those kind of statements with their feelings that they are already on the cusp of pulling back participation, for any number of reasons.]
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:11
#50
What is shock and awe to you does not make it shock and awe.
It never was. And has been showing that it is running from behind for a long time.
How many prominent New Democrats endorsed Topp before they even knew who else was running?
Take a powder man.
Moving away from our self-righteousness this early in the day?
Topp knew he had to come out fast.And why should people hold back endorsing if they know who they want? There are LOTS of us who are usually in the position going into a leadership race of being already commited to someone. I was not this time. Ditto for a lot of others. But being commited before it really starts is normal. Those are the backbone of any campaign.
With all of Topp's defects (still extremely present whenever he gives a speech or an interview), it's mind-boggling that some of the party elites wouldn't want to wait to see their options. Is Topp [i]really[/i] a guy you take one look at and say "jeez, that's my guy, even if the second coming of Tommy Douglas shows up"? The guy that turns out to be the least refined, least experienced candidate is really the obvious choice even before all of the candidates declare?
Sat, 2012-03-24 13:11
#51
got voting closed message. restarted borowser, cleared cookies, got through and voted successfully.