There has been an attack on the voting system from outside sources, and that is what is causing the delayed voting - seriously.
Any suggestions who would be behind that - there will be an investigation btw.
Robocall Two!
NDP Leadership #142
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:45
#52
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:48
#53
Boom Boom
Results at 6pm, hopefully. Mansbridge said the fourth ballot results - if necessary - at this rate won't be known until 10 pm. I was hoping to go to bed early because I'm not feeling well.
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:49
#54
Even worse !!!! So much for procurement of Canadian companies !It's a Spanish company. Don't think they are but could be wrong. I also think they were picked over a Canadian company...Bob Fife on CTV asks a really good question: is this company a union shop? If not, why did we choose a non-union shop? He says his own techies, union members, are asking.
You'd expect a socialist inclined political party to hold close the means of voting and control that aspect of the democracy itself, rather than turn it over to a corporation.
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:50
#55
FWIW: thread # 139 started at 11:18. 5and1/2 hours later, 450 posts and counting.
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:53
#56
dacckon
This is such a fucking embarrassment, how can we claim to run a country if we can't even do a fucking simple online vote.
How can we even claim that the results are legit now?
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:59
#57
Looks like the failsafe went off. The system automatically shut down. So in other words due dilligence was done. Party staff should be being praised not dised.
Sat, 2012-03-24 16:59
#58
It has to be an attack from unfriendly sources. There just was not that many people voting to crash the system like this. Even half the people that are at the convention have already voted ahead of time.
And who is shutting down discussions? Paranoid or what, eh!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:02
#59
Maybe we should have used an Chinese company ?
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:03
#60
I'm guessing, with no knowledge other than 'Spanish voting company', that it's Sctyl. Having said that, who knows if they're providing servers as well or just the software. Best to wait, call this 'fun' and something we'll look back on fondly, with a laugh in a couple of years. The PC nominations didn't finish until the early morning here in AB and they had the first round done before convention.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:04
#61
Obviously I can't prove this right now but my hunch is that is it another political party trying to rig the results because they are afraid, very afraid of what is coming for them. Based on what we already know about the Robocall scandall I know where I would start looking.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:06
#62
Mansbridge is just speaking the truth. This is embarassing, no doubt about it.
But let's keep our perspective here, people. By the time the next election rolls around the public will have forgotten all about these problems. That's if they'll even care at all once the leader has been chosen.
So let's not shut down the discussion here with PR strategy babble, ok? The idea that free speech somehow hurts the party is not worthy of us.
What's happening is simply inexcusable. With online voting, the first questions that come to mind are 'Can you make it secure' and 'Can it handle the demand?' And yes, that includes DoS. Everyone knows that.
I want to know the name of this company.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:07
#63
radiorahim
Had no trouble at all voting on the first ballot, it took some retries on the second...maybe 10-15 minutes, but on the third it took over an hour to cast my vote.
Internet voting is glitchy at the best of times, but there should have been some pretty heavy duty load testing on the system prior to the convention. One of the things to anticipate is how to deal with a DDOS attack.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:08
#64
With regard to the next federal election, I think this shows that the country is not ready for online voting for both the security of the vote and the possibility of people not be able to make their vote online. In view of the question marks about the last federal vote, I think the party should not support online voting until any such system is shown to meet these two vital criteria. Otherwise, some unknown party (I'll give you one guess) could carry out even greater voter fraud than occurred in the last election.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:10
#65
Is this something Elections Canada can investigate or is it only an internal NDP thingy?
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:12
#66
According to my buddy Evan, the people responsible for the online voting system say their system can handle the 138,000 odd registered party members, but any more activity on the site will result in a shutdown. They're assuring us that the integrity of the system has been maintained.
Surely there must be a better way to ensure the OPOV isn't infiltrated by "outsiders".
ETA: I wonder if supporters of a particular candidate(s) have purposely tried to vote more than once in order to jam the system and allow more time to convince delegates to vote a certain way ...
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:12
#67
Catchfire
Everyone I've talked to knows that Ed Broadbent is behind it.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:12
#68
Well what do you know, they have traced the attacking server back to a basement room at 24 Sussex Drive. 
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:13
#69
Arthur Cramer
Panna, there is really no way to know what "these outside sources" are. Unless the people who launched the attack have a traceable IP address, it is pretty much a lost cause.
I say it again, if this was truly a DOS, Denial of Service, attack, then I completely fail to see how this is a negative reflection on the NDP in any way. Stop crying the blues! Obviously this how the system was intended to work. If anything, we should be saying the system did what it was expected to.
I work in IT, and I totally cannot see how in any way that this is a bad result. I say it again, start hammering Mansbrige and correct the frame. Again, it isn't about truthfulness, its about accuracy, and what Mansbridge is saying is not accurate. That's the problem.
You now, this is the reason I get so fed up with people like Capstick when he is on CBC. He really seems incapable of dealing with false and misleading framing. Part of this is pushing back against the host like Soloman. The Tories and Libs are experts. We really, really, need to to get a grip on this. That is embarassing.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:14
#70
It seems to me that the system worked exactly as it should have. It detected an attack and went into protection mode to protect the data (our votes). Instead of pissing on NDP staff they should be comended for anticipating such an attack and having a plan to deal with it. Sure it is annoying, but really wouldn't it be far, far worse to find out the data (our votes) were hacked.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:14
#71
To your refer back to your post radiorahim, if these DOS attacks really escalate further there's an outside chance that fourth ballot voters might not be able to finish cast ballots until 11:00, 12:00 ... and that's eastern time. Forget those poor souls in Newfoundland.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:15
#72
I'm guessing, with no knowledge other than 'Spanish voting company', that it's Sctyl. Having said that, who knows if they're providing servers as well or just the software. Best to wait, call this 'fun' and something we'll look back on fondly, with a laugh in a couple of years. The PC nominations didn't finish until the early morning here in AB and they had the first round done before convention.
Thanks, BB. Needed that. And Arthur's framing.
Think what Tom can do with this on Monday morning !!!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:15
#73
Thank you, Arthur.
:)
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:17
#74
Got my tinfoil hat on and am blaming CSIS and their extraterrestrial overlords.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:17
#75
To your refer back to your post radiorahim, if these DOS attacks really escalate further there's an outside chance that fourth ballot voters might not be able to finish cast ballots until 11:00, 12:00 ... and that's eastern time. Forget those poor souls in Newfoundland.
You mean those layabouts in Lotus Land can retire to their hammocks on time?
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:18
#76
On another note, has anyone heard of any electoral process ever being compromised by a cyberattack like this?
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:18
#77
Arthur Cramer
NR, it would up to Elections Canada to decide if there are conditions that would necessitate their involvement. They can do what is called a "forensic" investigation, as long as something called "continuity of custody" hasn't been broken, I would assume EC has IT security staff and it would likely be an internal decision by EC on whether to proceed.
I am guessing EC won't do anything.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:19
#78
Kinetix - if you see this in the midst of this fast-moving thread - thanks for your reply in the last thread about the Charest government's attacks on unions. You were absolutely right of course. I misinterpreted your meaning originally. Just wanted to acknowledge that and apologize for my interrogatory tone.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:20
#79
According to my buddy Evan, the people responsible for the online voting system say their system can handle the 138,000 odd registered party members, but any more activity on the site will result in a shutdown.
Now that they've talked about how the failsafe works, even if the initial delays weren't caused by malicious tampering, anyone who would be motivated to engage in dirty tricks now knows exactly how easy it is.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:20
#80
Arthur Cramer
I am down for maintenace. I need another beer! 
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:21
#81
WCG I don't know of a situation in Canada where anyone has attempted to be this democratic in their leader selection. As far as I am aware in the Canadian context we are in new territory all around
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:22
#82
You mean those layabouts in Lotus Land can retire to their hammocks on time?To your refer back to your post radiorahim, if these DOS attacks really escalate further there's an outside chance that fourth ballot voters might not be able to finish cast ballots until 11:00, 12:00 ... and that's eastern time. Forget those poor souls in Newfoundland.
Hey, Ballot 1 was closed at 6:30 AM PST. Don't envy your BC counterparts too much.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:25
#83
NDP eyes ‘attack’ as glitches mar electronic leadership vote
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-eyes-attack-as-glitches...
The NDP fears its leadership contest has been hit by a denial-of-service attack by outside hackers.
The party is concerned about voting delays that did not show up in repeated testing of its electronic ballot system before the convention.
“We ran dozens of tests and they came back flawless,” an NDP official told The Globe. “We are exploring the possibility of an attack.”
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:25
#84
Arthur Cramer
Evan, "What if the system shuts down again", What happens if you get hit by a car while you are crossing the street? What a moron!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:27
#85
NR, it would up to Elections Canada to decide if there are conditions that would necessitate their involvement. They can do what is called a "forensic" investigation, as long as something called "continuity of custody" hasn't been broken, I would assume EC has IT security staff and it would likely be an internal decision by EC on whether to proceed.
I am guessing EC won't do anything.
I don't think Elections Canada has any jurisdiction over voting in leadership contests. Fundraising, yes-voting, no
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:27
#86
dacckon
Is Evan Soloman asking stupid questions again? What a surprise....
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:34
#87
Arthur Cramer
Dackon:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:34
#88
Is that true Nathan and Tom were seen having dinner a few minutes ago? 
If Nathan comes in 2nd, and that appears to be more and more a possibility now, and Tom is very close to going over the top, hopefully Nathan will walk over to Tom and end it. And if that were to happen as Pat Martin says, the combined forces of Nathan and Tom will create a sea change for the NDP.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:34
#89
"A party spokeswoman said the servers were overloaded as 10,000 members tried to vote. She said she had no information to indicate it was a denial-of-service attack."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/24/ndp-leadership-voting-p...
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:35
#90
System failures can cause their own DOS events. Just reading postings here, how many people tried repeatedly to login and cast a vote. The more failures, the more attempts, the more attempts the more failures: and on it goes. That's the mostly likely explanation for more than expected activity, of course there will be many other reasons forwarded as well.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:35
#91
It is Scytl by the way:
@cselley Scytl, the company running the web voting system, actually has a booth at the convention.
Started out of the Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona but split from them. Knowing politics in Barcelona I'd be a little suprised if they weren't union.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:37
#92
Arthur Cramer
Rebecca, don't put that tinfoil hat on too tight, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:39
#93
Could I just repeat this reply to your idea of workers waiting while you create a new universe and repeal NAFTA? K? and Sprung Garden
Try to imagine your average UFCW workers, putting your groceries through the checkout, and not sure how long her/his employer is going to be able to support union pay rates and benefits in the face of encroachment by those others moving in from south of the border. Somehow, just reciting "solidarity", the mantra of the old guard, does not seem sustaining enough. Some way of gturning back the economic tide, making the commercial/industrial sector viable again, makes sense. At least, that would seem a good reason for the UFCW to support Tom Mulcair.
Huh? Mulcair has no interest in repealing NAFTA so I don't see how Mulcair will help grocery stores compete against US grocery corporations moving into Canada. http://rabble.ca/columnists/2011/10/tom-mulcair-plays-terrible-hand-trad...As you put it, HUH? You expect the workers at the checkout to survive while you fulfill your damp dream of doing away with NAFTA? Right.Cheering on more free trade for the Canadian branch of global capitalism is not the way for the NDP to support workers.
An NDP government should renegotiate NAFTA and place Buy Canadian rules in key sectors of the economy, certainly in the energy sector but also in monopolies like CN rail - maybe that way Electro-Motive would still be in London Ontario. And that way Canadian workers would be able to buy lots of groceries in UFCW grocery stores. And in this week's news, the same deal with Air Canada hiving off its maintenance first to a separate company in Montreal and now to El Salvador?
Gaian, you live in Ontario, right? How is global free-trade working out for Ontario manufacturing right now? If the NDP embraces the free trade agenda, workers in many provinces and sectors will lose their jobs. The Conservatives and Liberals have done a fine job selling out the country to global capital, the NDP doesn't need to join in.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:39
#94
Arthur Cramer
If they vote Topp, I saw it again, we are so screwed!
Someone else wrote, we want to lose, we want to lose. That would be so true!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:40
#95
1/2 hour till 3rd ballot results.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:42
#96
Nailed by cyberterrorism, I hope thier is a police investigation and charges laid, we need to crack down on these assholes. I hate these worthless fucking goofs who have nothing better to do with hurting other people with thier hacking, spyware, and adware, viruses. Fucking scum.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:43
#97
Regardless of what happens now on the convention floor it has probably already been decided by the advance voting.
I think it would be helpful to chill a bit and reflect on people who are supporting other candidates who did not win, and who will have some bruised feelings.
If they vote Topp, I saw it again, we are so screwed!
Someone else wrote, we want to lose, we want to lose. That would be so true!
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:46
#98
radiorahim
CPAC just reported that the NDP's CEO reported that there has been a DOS attack on the NDP's servers.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:47
#99
Nailed by cyberterrorism, I hope thier is a police investigation and charges laid, we need to crack down on these assholes. I hate these worthless fucking goofs who have nothing better to do with hurting other people with thier hacking, spyware, and adware, viruses. Fucking scum.
Aren't there bigger enemies of democracy around that we can save some venom for?
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:49
#100
CPAC just reported that the NDP's CEO reported that there has been a DOS attack on the NDP's servers.
I liked DOS. CPM too. I guess times and acronyms have changed.
Sat, 2012-03-24 17:51
#101
Is that true Nathan and Tom were seen having dinner a few minutes ago?
If Nathan comes in 2nd, and that appears to be more and more a possibility now, and Tom is very close to going over the top, hopefully Nathan will walk over to Tom and end it. And if that were to happen as Pat Martin says, the combined forces of Nathan and Tom will create a sea change for the NDP.
We'll see in about 15 minutes. Cullen has a lot of votes to catch up.