NDP Leadership #145

122 posts / 0 new

Topic locked

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:18

Skinny Dipper

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

In case you wanted to know how the Liberals are going to paint our new leader...

http://warrenkinsella.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/20120324-233936.jpg

Remember who your enemies are. Don't give them an inch.

While Nathan Cullen presented an interesting idea to support electoral cooperation between the NDP and Liberals, and Warren Kinsella seemed to support this idea, I think Mr. Kinsella wanted Nathan Cullen to win because he knows that this idea wouldn't work in practice. Essentially, it takes two to tango. The next Liberal leader (Bob Rae or someone else) could reject cooperation. This move would neuter Mr. Cullen and the NDP, and raise the Liberal Party's profile.

Warren Kinsella is upset that Thomas Mulcair won because Mr. Mulcair will highly likely raise the profile of the NDP if things go well. Thomas Mulcair is definitely a fighter. The Liberals will need a strong leader to fight a two-front war in the next federal election.

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:28

#53

Hoodeet

laine lowe wrote:

As a Bill Siksay-Lib Davies-Svend Robinson inclined NDP supporter, this victory is more than meh. But congrats to all you babblers who are celebrating Mulcair's victory. I'm happy for you and hope you're right in his ability to take down Harper.

Some 10 years ago, I abandoned being active in the NDP because I was not pleased with the right ward direction Layton was taking the party. I only renewed my membership to support Saganash for leadership. Don't get me wrong, I liked Layton the individual and in retrospect, he should be commended for doing a good job in balancing the "old, decrepit" ideals of socialism with the "new, pragamatic" ideas of progressive politics very well. But foreign policy and public safety positions sucked.ç

Hoodeet (JW)

I'm with you 99.5% on what you said.

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:34

#54

KenS

You're overthinking it SD. Kinsella [and Chretien] wnat merger with the NDP.

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:45

#55

1springgarden

Aristotleded24 wrote:
So here is my take on what happened:

The race was actually a contest between 2 sections of the party elite, with Topp representing more of the union/old guard wing, and Mulcair representing the Blairite wing. Despite what he may have led people to believe, Topp is not a strong advocate of the party's left-wing. He served under Roy Romanow, one of the most openly Blairite NDP governments Canada has ever elected. The grassroots candidates could not muster the resources to be major contenders, as seen by the fact that Charlie Angus and Megan Leslie didn't even run despite encouragement to do so, the fact that Niki Ashton actually received fewer votes than Martin Singh even though Singh didn't even run a real campaign, and the fact that candidates like Paul Dewar and Nathan Cullen didn't even make it to the final ballot. How else could Brian Topp have done so well, with the party recently electing a record number of seats and Topp not holding one himself, unless Topp had some serious backing from the party establishment? He very clearly played to the core left-wing ideas of the NDP base, and probably would have won if he didn't have a seat.

As for Mulcair? Despite the strong numbers he posted in the end, this is actually a stern rebuke. It took him four ballots to win, which suggests that people aren't so enthusiastic again. He made the mistake of accepting the media's narrative that he was the front-runner and heir apparent, and acted accordingly. While he worked very hard to win new NDP voters in Quebec, he basically took it for granted that the NDP base was going to support him no matter what. He did not show that he really got the NDP culture, and at times came across as being opposed, for example, his remarks about "union bosses." He never clarified what he meant by "modernizing" the party, even though he should have known that that kind of talk sets off alarm bells about shifting the NDP rightward, whether or not that was Mulcair's intent. His comments about "doing things differently" came across as insulting. They would have carried weight if the pattern for NDP seat numbers was either stagnant or in decline, but the NDP seat count increased in every election in the past decade, so what did the party need to do differently now? If he had taken more effort to reassure the NDP base, and even talk to them and show that he was going to listen to their concerns and not take them for granted, the vote may not have dragged on as long, in fact he could very easliy have won on the first ballot.

Aristotled24 - Thanks for this. I'm glad Brian Topp let the 4th ballot play out to the narrow 57/43 conclusion. Mulcair ran a campaign that challenged the left of the party and the left rose to that challenge. I'm glad it was Brian Topp on the last ballot and not Nathan Cullen as the message would have been lost with two "renovators/modernizers" on the last ballot.

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:48

#56

NorthReport

Here's one opinion about how Tom's victory came about. He's fortunate that pretty much everything went his way.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/inside-story-pivotal-events-that...

Sun, 2012-03-25 09:49

#57

Wilf Day

Michelle wrote:

Wilf Day wrote:

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
Keeping Libby on was a classy move.

And a fast one. He must have turned to her right after he finished his speech and asked if she would stay on. Then a few minutes later he announced it on CBC. An Olympic record?

Well, he did hug her and kiss her when he came up to the podium, and she stood front and centre, so I wonder if the arrangement was made beforehand. Everyone knew what the outcome of the vote would be even before the 4th ballot, after all.

Anyhow, it was a good move on his part. A very good move. It's a good sign that he won't let vindictiveness cloud his judgement.

You could be right. I was assuming that it would have been presumptuous for him to ask her to be his deputy leader while she was still, in theory, part of the Topp very-long-shot hope. After the Dewar/Angus misstep, people would be nervous. Maybe he said in advance "Libby, if the result is what I am hoping for, I'll have a question to ask you as soon as the result is in" and she knew what he meant?

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:07

#58

Hunky_Monkey

1springgarden wrote:

I'm glad Brian Topp let the 4th ballot play out to the narrow 57/43 conclusion. Mulcair ran a campaign that challenged the left of the party and the left rose to that challenge. I'm glad it was Brian Topp on the last ballot and not Nathan Cullen as the message would have been lost with two "renovators/modernizers" on the last ballot.

57 - 43 is narrow? :)

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:14

#59

josh

DaveW wrote:

Babble Nightmare, live:

National Post writer congratulates party on move to the middle:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/24/chris-selley-thomas-mulcair-ndp-will-take-its-fight-toward-the-political-middle/

As does Ibbitson:

Quote:

Call it the New New Democrats, since it was the brand New Labour that worked in Great Britain for Tony Blair.

It was exactly that fear – moving the NDP so close to the centre in pursuit of government that it would lose its social-democratic soul – that impelled former leader Ed Broadbent and others in the old guard to do everything in their power to stop Mr. Mulcair. It was why they rallied around Mr. Topp, who believed the NDP should remain true to its past, so that voters could elect a government, as he put it, ‘worth electing.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/ndp-opts-for-...

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:16

#60

josh

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
1springgarden wrote:

I'm glad Brian Topp let the 4th ballot play out to the narrow 57/43 conclusion. Mulcair ran a campaign that challenged the left of the party and the left rose to that challenge. I'm glad it was Brian Topp on the last ballot and not Nathan Cullen as the message would have been lost with two "renovators/modernizers" on the last ballot.

57 - 43 is narrow? :)

Uh, we were assured by some on here that it would be 65-35. And that Topp would never make it to the final ballot.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:20

#61

dacckon

I do hope some of you people here take the time to quote and ridicule the people who said Topp was in 5th place going in to this.

I find it funny when it was those people who were the ones complaining that a whisper campaign was attacking Mulcair, when they were whisper campaigning against Topp. Good times, goooooood times.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:26

#62

NorthReport

It's over folks, tiime to move on and help Tom stop Harper from doing too much more damage to the Canadian people's goals and aspirations.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:28

#63

josh

dacckon wrote:

I do hope some of you people here take the time to quote and ridicule the people who said Topp was in 5th place going in to this.

I find it funny when it was those people who were the ones complaining that a whisper campaign was attacking Mulcair, when they were whisper campaigning against Topp. Good times, goooooood times.

Not to mention the voting date extension granted Mulcair by the evil "establishment."

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:31

#64

Boom Boom

Topp was interviewed during the convention and he repeated that he had been in the NDP 30 years, had been the chief strategist in NDP victories, was a confidante of Jack Layton, said with Mulcair we'd get two Liberal parties, was endorsed by Layton's mother (and I think by Tommy Douglas's daughter), and had Broadbent take shots against Mulcair live on air. Despite all of that, and everyone free to vote as they wished, and Mulcair running a mostly quiet campaign, Mulcair beat Topp on every ballot.

Topp had everything going for him, including the best credentials possible but still could not beat Mulcair.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:33

#65

Boom Boom

Yeah - let's buy the Mods some beer!!!

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:34

#66

NorthReport

just wanted to say a big thank you to our mods who did an amazin' job under near to impossible conditions. Good on you. And than you to all the people who stood tall and voiced their concerns that we were going to lose our progressive values within the NDP. It was a legitimate concern, still is, and it will be our job to ensure that that does not happen under the new management. My hope is that by forming government we can reverse some of the things that have taken place and create a much fairer and healthier society for all Canadians.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:34

#67

Hunky_Monkey

josh wrote:
dacckon wrote:

I do hope some of you people here take the time to quote and ridicule the people who said Topp was in 5th place going in to this.

I find it funny when it was those people who were the ones complaining that a whisper campaign was attacking Mulcair, when they were whisper campaigning against Topp. Good times, goooooood times.

Not to mention the voting date extension granted Mulcair by the evil "establishment."

He was back in the pack a few weeks ago... and Peggy was in second. There was a shift in recent weeks. Not sure why that happened.

And josh... I don't recall anyone saying numbers like a 65% win for Mulcair.

Date extension? There was a date set and it was extended? News to me...

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:34

#68

JeffWells

1springgarden wrote:
I'm glad Brian Topp let the 4th ballot play out to the narrow 57/43 conclusion. Mulcair ran a campaign that challenged the left of the party and the left rose to that challenge.

This wasn't a left/right vote. Mulcair had many senior figures from the party's left and labour in his camp, just as Topp had many establishment centrists and Blairites. I'm on the left and self-identify as a socialist, and I supported Mulcair. Topp decided that he could win by pandering to the left he'd sought to marginalize as a strategist, and he was right; that was his only path to victory. And he succeeded in saddling Mulcair with wanting to move the party to the right, which is what Topp had himself accomplished under Layton.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:37

#69

josh

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
josh wrote:
dacckon wrote:

I do hope some of you people here take the time to quote and ridicule the people who said Topp was in 5th place going in to this.

I find it funny when it was those people who were the ones complaining that a whisper campaign was attacking Mulcair, when they were whisper campaigning against Topp. Good times, goooooood times.

Not to mention the voting date extension granted Mulcair by the evil "establishment."

He was back in the pack a few weeks ago... and Peggy was in second. There was a shift in recent weeks. Not sure why that happened.

And josh... I don't recall anyone saying numbers like a 65% win for Mulcair.

Date extension? There was a date set and it was extended? News to me...

Go back and look. I recall NR, for one, making that prediction. And I believe there was another.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:37

#70

Aristotleded24

Boom Boom wrote:
Topp was interviewed during the convention and he repeated that he had been in the NDP 30 years, had been the chief strategist in NDP victories, was a confidante of Jack Layton, said with Mulcair we'd get two Liberal parties, was endorsed by Layton's mother (and I think by Tommy Douglas's daughter), and had Broadbent take shots against Mulcair live on air. Despite all of that, and everyone free to vote as they wished, and Mulcair running a mostly quiet campaign, Mulcair beat Topp on every ballot.

Topp had everything going for him, including the best credentials possible but still could not beat Mulcair.

And Topp would have won on that final ballot if he had a seat in Parliament. Mulcair would have won earlier had he courted the NDP base.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:41

#71

dacckon

Tom's campaign didn't need to attack anyone.

Another campaign did it for him.

That's not a bad thing, I call that cunning. Better to sacrifice and utilize your worthless pawns than risk your queen eh?

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:43

#72

josh

NorthReport wrote:

It's over folks, tiime to move on and help Tom stop Harper from doing too much more damage to the Canadian people's goals and aspirations.

Yes, it will interesting to see Mulcair's response as party leader, if any, to the escalation in the class war being directed at unions by the federal government and the corporate media.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1151586--walkom-will...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/first-majority-budget-will-...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-sorry-state-of-our-unio...

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:44

#73

Boom Boom

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Mulcair would have won earlier had he courted the NDP base.

Who do you think made Mulcair our next leader?

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:44

#74

NorthReport

You're right Josh

If Harper had his way we would be going back to the Charles Dickens era where there was absolutely zero support for the average person let alone the less privileged people in society.

If they were able to storm La Bastille in France, and the gap continues to grow between the rich and the poor in Canada, we should be able to do the same thing in Canada, figuratively speaking.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:49

#75

NorthReport

Read the article in the 'peg free press. I think Mulcair's campaign mgr, by telling him to be a lover, and not a fighter, otherwise he would not take the job, had a lot to do with it. and hopefully Tom now sees the wisdom and the benefits of this approach.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:50

#76

1springgarden

NorthReport wrote:

just wanted to say a big thank you to our mods who did an amazin' job under near to impossible conditions. Good on you. And than you to all the people who stood tall and voiced their concerns that we were going to lose our progressive values within the NDP. It was a legitimate concern, still is, and it will be our job to ensure that that does not happen under the new management. My hope is that by forming government we can reverse some of the things that have taken place and create a much fairer and healthier society for all Canadians.

Thanks for saying it. I think all recognize that Tom Mulcair will be a capable NDP leader, will hold Quebec and give the NDP a real shot at replacing the Harper regime, all things his proponents correctly pointed out.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:50

#77

NorthReport

The two most unhappy people this morning have to be Stephen Harper and Bob Rae. It looks good on them.

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:53

#78

Aristotleded24

Boom Boom wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:
Mulcair would have won earlier had he courted the NDP base.
Who do you think made Mulcair our next leader?

The fact that Mulcair had a seat and that Topp didn't, and all the difficulties the party would have had if Topp had won (i.e. who steps down, how long will Harper delay calling the by-election, what if Topp loses?).

Sun, 2012-03-25 10:59

#79

DaveW

NorthReport wrote:

The two most unhappy people this morning have to be Stephen Harper and Bob Rae. It looks good on them.

absolutely, wouldn't Harper have LOVED the NDP to nominate someone identifiably a "professor" and a "talker", Iggy like, not someone whose entire brand is that of a fighter and parliamentary scrapper...

go get him, Tom

Sun, 2012-03-25 11:07

#80

Life, the unive...

that's why, not who. The simple fact is the majority of NDP members voting supported Mulcair. Suck it up, get over it and lets get on with the job of defeating Harper. That is the goal isn't it? Isn't it?

Sun, 2012-03-25 11:37

#81

socialdemocrati...

KenS wrote:
What the media says is utterly meaningless right now. They are all clueless- sniffing the air for farts.

LOL

Sun, 2012-03-25 11:54

#82

Skinny Dipper

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Boom Boom wrote:
Topp was interviewed during the convention and he repeated that he had been in the NDP 30 years, had been the chief strategist in NDP victories, was a confidante of Jack Layton, said with Mulcair we'd get two Liberal parties, was endorsed by Layton's mother (and I think by Tommy Douglas's daughter), and had Broadbent take shots against Mulcair live on air. Despite all of that, and everyone free to vote as they wished, and Mulcair running a mostly quiet campaign, Mulcair beat Topp on every ballot.

Topp had everything going for him, including the best credentials possible but still could not beat Mulcair.

And Topp would have won on that final ballot if he had a seat in Parliament. Mulcair would have won earlier had he courted the NDP base.

Some NDP members are more basic than other. Who is a true NDP member? Who is not?

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:04

#83

Wilf Day

Interesting caucus dynamics.

Nathan Cullen did better than expected, better than Peggy Nash. Does this give him more weight? Or is he still an outlier?

Topp got more votes than expected. Does this give his backers -- Libby Davies, Françoise Boivin, Alexandre Boulerice, Jean Crowder, Yvon Godin, Chris Charlton, four other women, three other men -- more weight?

Or is this all irrelevant? Are all MPs equal? Are some more equal than others?

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:13

#84

Boom Boom

By choosing Mulcair and his quiet campaign over Topp's juggernaut, I think the party has said where it wants to go.

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:16

#85

socialdemocrati...

Cheers to Paul Dewar. One of the hardest working MPs in the NDP.

Cheers to Martin Singh. A powerful symbol that professionals can have a conscience. Hope to add him to Parliament very soon.

Cheers to Niki Ashton. She took courageous stances at every turn, including issues like Israel, generic drugs, and full on legalization of cannabis.

Cheers to Peggy Nash. Always engaging with activists around my city. Someone who believes in a participatory model of democracy.

Cheers to Nathan Cullen. He always stuck his neck out to defend other candidates. He embodies the word "unity" at every step.

Cheers to Brian Topp. Who reminded us to stay committed to social democracy. And, in the end, he reached out to his rival in a classy move. Hope he becomes an MP, perhaps in Quebec?

Cheers to to Thomas Mulcair. The NDP's new standard bearer. Who showed humility and wisdom in victory. He understands growing our party starts by consolidating the great team that brought us this far.

Tomorrow we get to work.

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:26

#86

Unionist

josh wrote:
Yes, it will interesting to see Mulcair's response as party leader, if any, to the escalation in the class war being directed at unions by the federal government and the corporate media.

Josh, the problem is much deeper than Mulcair. The NDP doesn't give a shit. Pull out your microscope, please, and find me the powerful fightback message of the federal party against the recent attacks on unions by Harper:

[url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/press-releases]NDP press releases[/url]

[url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/statements]NDP statements[/url]

And when you're done searching, have a look at what Thomas Walkom said in the article you linked to:

Thomas Walkom wrote:
Mulcair and his rivals made no mention of these strikes at the NDP convention, held deep within the bowels of a downtown Toronto convention centre. Not a word.

Why was that? Why did they say not a word? Were they embarrassed that by defending workers' rights, someone might stand up and say: "What about every single NDP government in history - didn't they do the same as the Harper government is doing now, only in lite fashion?"

The problem is much deeper than Mulcair, josh. And it doesn't need a special Spot-the-Differences-Between-the-Candidates ™ microscope to diagnose it.

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:35

#87

Ottawa Centre-Left

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Cheers to Paul Dewar. One of the hardest working MPs in the NDP.

Cheers to Martin Singh. A powerful symbol that professionals can have a conscience. Hope to add him to Parliament very soon.

Cheers to Niki Ashton. She took courageous stances at every turn, including issues like Israel, generic drugs, and full on legalization of cannabis.

Cheers to Peggy Nash. Always engaging with activists around my city. Someone who believes in a participatory model of democracy.

Cheers to Nathan Cullen. He always stuck his neck out to defend other candidates. He embodies the word "unity" at every step.

Cheers to Brian Topp. Who reminded us to stay committed to social democracy. And, in the end, he reached out to his rival in a classy move. Hope he becomes an MP, perhaps in Quebec?

Cheers to to Thomas Mulcair. The NDP's new standard bearer. Who showed humility and wisdom in victory. He understands growing our party starts by consolidating the great team that brought us this far.

Tomorrow we get to work.

Well said!

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:43

#88

socialdemocrati...

A preview of how the Conservatives will try to attack Mulcair:

Quote:
"Thomas Mulcair is an opportunist whose high tax agenda, blind ambition, and divisive personality would put Canadian families and their jobs at risk." said party spokesman Fred DeLorey.

Don't get mad. Get even.

Sun, 2012-03-25 12:51

#89

Boom Boom

That MP Moore guy was on Question Period, and tried to defend that early attack on Mulcair, but just ended up sounding like an idiot. I wish 2015 wasn't so far away - we're ready to win now!

Sun, 2012-03-25 13:17

#90

socialdemocrati...

It's going to be three painful years until 2015. But the NDP has been climbing steadily around the country, in spite of a small drop in Quebec. If you add a small Quebec bump for Mulcair to the gains from our "Turmelmania" phase... we might see a lead in the polls by April!

I'm serious. It's mathematically very possible.

Sun, 2012-03-25 13:42

#91

Freedom 55

[url=http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/03/24/ndp-says-it-knows-ip-addresses-it-has... it knows IP addresses it has linked to cyber-attack[/url]

Sun, 2012-03-25 15:40

#92

Hunky_Monkey

Brad Lavinge has resigned as national director and principal secretary.

Sun, 2012-03-25 15:40

#93

dacckon

Brad Lavigne resigns as NDP's principal secretary

Tis' a shame, I always liked how he threw people out for being morons.

Sun, 2012-03-25 15:43

#94

NorthReport

Good!

Freedom 55 wrote:

[url=http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/03/24/ndp-says-it-knows-ip-addresses-it-has... it knows IP addresses it has linked to cyber-attack[/url]

Sun, 2012-03-25 16:00

#95

flight from kamakura

he resigned a couple weeks ago, while turmel was still leader. looks like mcgrath will be leaving in june, after a transition period.

Sun, 2012-03-25 16:47

#96

Brachina

The liberals are fucking nuts if they think anointing Bob Rae as leader, with no vote is a good idea. He'll have no mandate from members and his identity will subsume the liberals even more. As it is Bob Rae may as well be the only liberal member in his cacus.

No matter who would be annointed, the act of annointing is political suecide. Are the libs really crazy enough to do this or are they just to broke to ran a leadership race?

Sun, 2012-03-25 16:49

#97

Brachina

Forgot the link to go with the tirade.

http://www.thestar.com/iphone/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1151682--...

Sun, 2012-03-25 17:36

#98

Winston

Hunky_Monkey wrote:

He was back in the pack a few weeks ago... and Peggy was in second. There was a shift in recent weeks. Not sure why that happened.

I think that the Broadbent salvo was very effective in resuscitating Topp's campaign as well as in gelling Mulcair's support. In short, it polarized the debate between the only 2 candidates (in my opinion) that had a hope of solidifying the Québec gains.

In the sense that Mulcair is painted now in the minds of the Canadian public as a "centrist", this will probably help us electorally.

Ultimately, I think the Topp/Mulcair face-off is something that needed to happen for the Party. Hopefully, this all didn't happen at too much of a cost to the unity of the Party. It is equally incumbent on BOTH the Mulcair AND the Topp camps to ensure that we continue to be cohesive and united.

Hunky Monkey wrote:
And josh... I don't recall anyone saying numbers like a 65% win for Mulcair. Date extension? There was a date set and it was extended? News to me...

Hunky Monkey and josh:

The leadership race is (very thankfully) finally over. Let's not scratch at old wounds, shall we?

Sun, 2012-03-25 17:48

#99

Boom Boom

Winston wrote:

In the sense that Mulcair is painted now in the minds of the Canadian public as a "centrist", this will probably help us electorally.

That allows us to campaign from the centre and govern from the left! Mulcair's grand strategy?

Sun, 2012-03-25 17:57

#100

dacckon

Boom Boom wrote:

That allows us to campaign from the centre and govern from the left! Mulcair's grand strategy?

Hopefully, this is what I have always wanted to happen.

Campaign from the centre.

Then "accidentally", with pride, govern from the logical left.

Sun, 2012-03-25 18:04

#101

Boom Boom

Like!

Pages

Topic locked