Austerity coming to Ontario 3

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Wilf Day
Austerity coming to Ontario 3

About time.

janfromthebruce

that's good Wilf. I also made a submission focussed on education. Suggested that there would much more revenue if school boards amalgamated that shared geographcial areas and competed for the same students, in areas of declining enrolment and declining population. Catholic education (classes) could be protected at the school level rather than the board level and would service the needs of all students better because there would be more and better programming and increased class enrolment thus increased program choice.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

A friend of mine wrote that the PC's said weeks ago they would vote against the budget even before they had seen it.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

ygtbk wrote:

The budget is not the Drummond apocalypse some expected...

Erin Weir of the CCPA wrote:

[url=http://www.behindthenumbers.ca/2012/03/27/ontario-budget-emulates-drummo... Budget Emulates Drummond[/url]

Perhaps the most striking feature of today’s Ontario budget is [b]how close it comes to last month’s Drummond report.[/b] Drummond’s preferred scenario for 2017-18 was $134.7 billion of provincial revenue, $117.5 billion of program spending and $15.3 billion of interest payments.

By comparison, today’s budget envisions $135.9 billion of revenue, $118.9 billion of program spending and $15.4 billion of interest payments (Table 2.24). In other words, the McGuinty government [b]aims to come within one per cent of Drummond’s proposals.[/b] It would do so through a similar combination of unduly pessimistic revenue projections, slight revenue increases and radical spending restraint.

The budget strangely assumes flat corporate tax revenues despite rising corporate profits, the cancellation of future corporate tax cuts and promised improvements to corporate tax compliance (Table 2.15). The government brags about beating its previous deficit targets, but expects Ontarians to take seriously its gloomy projections for future years.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.opseu.org/notices/2012-overview-budget.htm]The "Shock Doctrine" Comes to Ontario: An overview of the 2012-13 Ontario Budget[/url], by the Ontario Public Service Employees' Union.

[url=http://www.opseu.org/news/press2012/march-27-2012.htm]"One per cent" budget fails Ontario[/url] — OPSEU.

Fidel

Why should unions and public service workers want an NDP government in Toronto at this juncture of the top-down ideology's third decade and third recession in Canada? Are they suddenly not liking Ontario after 17 years worth of Harris and Pinocchio? What's the big rush to elect Horwath's NDP so soon? Where are all the good times? HELlo? Surprised

NDPP

Ontario Budget is a Requiem for a Caring Province[LOL!] - by Carol Goar

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1152784--ontario...

"..Although he insisted this week, 'We are not prepared to balance this budget on the backs of families who may find themselves in difficult circumstances,' he did exactly that...

It freezes welfare payments, currently at $599 per month for a destitute individual, for a year, despite the fact that food prices are going up by 4.6% a year and electricity costs are rising by a staggering 8.9 percent.

Disability support payments, currently $1,064 per month - barely enough to sustain a poverty level existence - are also being frozen.

These people have nothing to spare. They are already living below the poverty line. Yet McGuinty is asking them to 'share the burden' of restraint.

Children's Aid Societies which take care of kids no one wants, are expected to pare $16 million from their budgets.

On the other side of the ledger, here is what the government chose NOT to do..."

NDPP

OCAP Statement On 2012 Ontario

http://www.ocap.ca/node/994

"The 2012 Ontario Budget, delivered by the Liberal Government, but designed by Bay Street, goes under the title 'Strong Action for Ontario.' In reality, however, it is a blueprint for action to impose the burden of the crisis on everyone but the rich. Public Services will be under attack as the Government works to reduce spending by some $17.7 billion over the next three years. The workers who deliver these services will face a wage freeze and an unprecedented attack on their pensions.

As already announced by Dalton McGuinty, this Budget includes measures that will deepen the crisis of poverty in Ontario. A planned $100 increase in the Ontario Child Benefit will be put off until July of 2013 and social assistance rates will be 'frozen', which in real terms means a cut in income once again.

People on Ontario Works are living on incomes that are a devastating 60% lower than they were in 1995 and over 20% lower than when the Harris Tories left office. Now, that wretched sub-poverty income will continue to be driven down further by the 'poverty reduction' Liberals as the cost of food and other necessities increases significantly.

A particularly disgusting move by this government is the elimination of a benefit known as 'Community Start-Up and Maintenance Allowance.' At present CSU is only available to people every two years, but is the only way that people can get the funds to move, to buy much needed furniture, or to pay for emergencies such as when the power has been cut off. It is also an essential benefit for women fleeing abuse as a means to get started in a new and safer location, and for people coming out of institutions trying to re-start their lives on the outside.

As with all benefits on the books for OW and ODSP, it is irrefutably insufficient and has in the last few years under the Liberals become increasingly harder to access. But to cut even the meager scraps of a start-up allowance shows the true intentions of the Liberal budget.

On top of the elimination of the CSU, all other discretionary health benefits under Welfare (OW) and Disability (ODSP) will now be capped, meaning that access will be severely limited. Funding for these benefits (dental emergencies, eye glasses, etc) will be cut over the next 3 years. This newest round comes on top of the previous cuts to the Special Diet allowance which in and of itself has massively reduced the health and well-being of those on assistance.

The freeze on corporate tax breaks they reluctantly included in the budget in the hopes of preventing the defeat of their minority government and an election, will leave intact the tax changes that have handed billions over to the richest in society. We are somehow expected to be grateful or see it as a good thing for this freeze on corporate taxes as though as though this means 'WE' (the poor AND rich) are all 'taking a hit'. But this isn't about fairness and it isn't even about money. If it was they wouldn't be taking it from people on assistance and the poorest Ontarians, they would go to those who have the money.

Witholding and freezing welfare 'saves' the province $90 million. This is a drop in the bucket - only .072 of the total budget, and nothing in comparison to the benefits bestowed on the private sector and corporations. While we have faced round after round of attacks on our incomes and wages, the top 1% of income earners have in fact doubled their incomes since 1980, but today are paying half the taxes. Even if corporate taxes had been raised back to the previous 14%, it would have generated a staggering $2 billion in just one year. But no, that was not on the table in the 2012 Budget, because no matter how they spin it, this is really about class, and a war has been declared against poor and working people.

We see in the proposals of TD Banker Drummond, and the follow-through of Finance Minister Duncan, not just the continuation of Harris' work, but a transfer of wealth from poor to rich that puts Harris to shame. Thursday we will also face Harper's attacks on the Federal level. What we need to remember is that this isn't in isolation and isn't happening in a vacuum. What we are facing on all three levels of government is in fact a global austerity agenda that is being directed against poor communities and workers on an international scale. It is an attack that can only intensify. We cannot afford to let them get away with these opening shots.

A slogan that was popularized in the unemployment movements of the 1930s was 'United We Eat, Divided We Starve.' This should ring true for us again today. A common front of unions and communities must be organized to resist this Budget, those who have drawn it up and those who stand to profit from austerity. Duncan himself has stated that he expects 'protest on the lawns of Queens Park.' We need to not only make this a reality, but take a long and hard look at the power we have, and the power we need to create, for a serious and sustained movement capable of creating the disruption that can defeat their austerity and make the rich pay.

Fight To Win

Ontario Coaltion Against Poverty 2012

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..and this is only phase one of the ont cuts. canadians can also look forward to the feds slashing at that level followed by municipalities as the responsibilities get downloaded. how is this any different than what occured in greece when they began cutting? capital has no master! the ndp would'nt do anything much even much diffrent even if they were in power. the very same forces woulld begin to kick in ie downgrades and other external pressures. anyone who thinks the that the ndp can massage capital into giving us a break is trying to fool someone even if it is only themselves. we can only fight back as much as we can by hurting capital at it source..cutting of it money supply in the market place. at the factory level. shuting down the resource industry. it's easy to demonize politiciations but they are only tools. it's not about harper, it's not about mcguinty it's they way capitalism is working today..globally. you can't shrink this into something manageable. and it must be fought in conjunction with coalitions/alliances globally.

..furthermore look what's happening in nova scotia.

quote:

The provincial NDP government has taken an austerity approach to balance the budget in 2013-14 by cutting $772 million in public spending (over four years). Government spending impacts GDP growth and employment. The estimated impact of the government’s $772 million in cuts is the loss of well over 10,000 jobs. These job cuts will be compounded by federal public service cuts, estimated to result in 5,400 jobs cut in Atlantic Canada.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/newsroom/news-releases/alternative-budg...

 

ygtbk

M. Spector wrote:

ygtbk wrote:

The budget is not the Drummond apocalypse some expected...

Erin Weir of the CCPA wrote:

[url=http://www.behindthenumbers.ca/2012/03/27/ontario-budget-emulates-drummo... Budget Emulates Drummond[/url]

Perhaps the most striking feature of today’s Ontario budget is [b]how close it comes to last month’s Drummond report.[/b] Drummond’s preferred scenario for 2017-18 was $134.7 billion of provincial revenue, $117.5 billion of program spending and $15.3 billion of interest payments.

By comparison, today’s budget envisions $135.9 billion of revenue, $118.9 billion of program spending and $15.4 billion of interest payments (Table 2.24). In other words, the McGuinty government [b]aims to come within one per cent of Drummond’s proposals.[/b] It would do so through a similar combination of unduly pessimistic revenue projections, slight revenue increases and radical spending restraint.

The budget strangely assumes flat corporate tax revenues despite rising corporate profits, the cancellation of future corporate tax cuts and promised improvements to corporate tax compliance (Table 2.15). The government brags about beating its previous deficit targets, but expects Ontarians to take seriously its gloomy projections for future years.

If Dalton had cancelled all-day kindergarten, his "30% off" tuition cut (which isn't, just ask an engineering student) and some of his other "legacy" (I hate when politicians do that) programs I would believe he was taking Drummond seriously. But he didn't, so I don't.

The fact remains that he ran up spending during the good times (much faster than population growth and inflation, as I have documented in previous threads), and so now has no choice but to limit spending - only six months after an election campaign during which Ontario's future was nothing but kittens and butterflies. It is depressing.

Michelle

I filled out the survey too:

Do you like the budget introduced by the McGuinty government last Tuesday? What do you like about the budget?

Quote:

There is nothing good about this budget.  If you don't get substantial changes, you should vote it down, whether that means an election or not.

What do you dislike about the budget introduced by the McGuinty government?

Quote:

What is there to like?  It attacks people on social assistance and demonizes public sector workers as the problem, while it doesn't raise corporate taxes.  This is pretty basic.  You shouldn't need me or anyone else to tell you this.  These are basic bread and butter issues for the NDP, I would have thought.

Voting against the budget may force Ontario into an election.  Would you support an election at this time?

No, I wouldn't support going into an election.

I don't know either way.

Yes, I support calling an election.

Quote:

This question is a classic "push poll" question.  The responses are inadequate and designed so that as few people as possible will choose the "yes" option.  Those who don't want an election under any circumstances can choose the "No" option.  Those who don't really want to see an election but would be okay with one as a last resort really have no choice, do they?  So they either have to choose "I don't know either way" which is silly, since anyone filling this out knows what they think.  Or they have to choose "Yes, I support calling an election" which doesn't take into account their reluctance to do so unless absolutely necessary.

Here are my thoughts on calling an election: if you're just going to go along with this budget because you're afraid of an election, then McGuinty might as well have a majority already.  If you can't get meaningful concessions (and I mean MEANINGFUL ones, not a slight tweak here and there that gives you an excuse to support it), then call an election.  No one is ready.  No party has enough money for it.  You won't be alone.

Don't be afraid of Hudak or McGuinty getting a majority.  If you don't stand up for the most vulnerable in the province, or for public sector workers, then they might as well have a majority already. 

If I saw the ONDP standing up for people on social assistance and public sector workers when it actually counts, when it actually means something, when there is actually a risk involved, I would be so impressed that I would actually take out a membership again and volunteer my time and money, despite my disgust with the focus on stupid, sexist orange high heels in the most recent election campaign.  If you end up in an election because you stood up for labour principles and social justice principles for the poorest people in the province, I predict that you'll have a lot of renewed support.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

"If you end up in an election because you stood up for labour principles and social justice principles for the poorest people in the province, I predict that you'll have a lot of renewed support."

 

I really hope you're right. But this is the country that gave Harper a majority. (yeah, the NDP got "official opposition" - big whoop - they're still about 60 seats behind Harper)

Wilf Day

NDPP wrote:
OCAP Statement On 2012 Ontario

http://www.ocap.ca/node/994

"A particularly disgusting move by this government is the elimination of a benefit known as 'Community Start-Up and Maintenance Allowance.'  . . . It is an essential benefit for women fleeing abuse as a means to get started in a new and safer location . . ."

I'm not a real fan of what OCAP has unfortunately become, but they deserve credit for that line.

NDPP

The point is this budget hits the poorest among us worst of all. But because those above are not yet facing these barbaric conditions, they decide to just 'suck it up' but the poor and disadvantaged will be CRUSHED even further. It really is unacceptable that a society should permit such conditions to be imposed upon some of its members. But because they have no power and little influence, it is likely they will be left to fend for themselves. What OCAP is - is not the point for me here. Their statement is true and accurate and something must be done, surely? How would you like to try living on $600 a month? It is truly disgusting that such is permitted.

NDPP

NDP To Propose Ontario Budget Changes, Terms To Suppport Government

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-to-propose-ontario-budg...

"New Democratic Party Leader Andrea Horwath will lay out her conditionjs for saving the minority Liberal government on Monday, when she unveils amendments to the Ontario budget. The final shape of the amendments is subject to around-the-clock, behind-the-scenes talks set to begin shortly between NDP and Liberal officials.

NDP insiders warn that the outcome is not cast in stone, but as things stand, Ms Horwath has shown little interest in engineering the defeat of the government. The Liberals, for their part, demonstrated an openness to working with the NDP by leaving 'poison pills' - measures that would alienate the NDP constituency - out of the budget.

'I would like to hear her ideas,' Mr Duncan told reporters on Wednesday. 'The one thing I do know: the people of this province do not want an election, not five months after the last one.'..."

especially if there's no one worth voting for..

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Wilf Day wrote:

Second, the dishonest claim that 20% of the deficit cuts -- $4.4 billion -- comes from increased revenues. Cancelling planned tax cuts is NOT increasing revenues.

Actually it is, if the cost of the planned tax cuts has already been factored into the calculation of the deficit. Do we know whether that is so?

And as for "leverage", the NDP has none, unless McGuinty believes the NDP is [b]actually prepared to vote down the budget[/b]. If Andrea Horwath is scared of an election, like so many of her supporters here, and Dalton knows it, he can play hardball as much as he wants.

He's already said he's willing to negotiate, but only on the minor details. He knows he has to look "reasonable" and if he can throw Andrea a bone or two in exchange for NDP support of the austerity program, he will blunt the attack from the left and drive a wedge between the two opposition parties.

Wilf Day wrote:
About time

What? Is that in response to the thread title?

-------------------

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/ontario/austerity-coming-ontario-2]Link to previous thread-chunk[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

NDPP wrote:

...but as things stand, Ms Horwath has shown little interest in engineering the defeat of the government.

Which severely undercuts her bargaining position.

Quote:
The Liberals, for their part, demonstrated an openness to working with the NDP by leaving 'poison pills' - measures that would alienate the NDP constituency - out of the budget.

Really? No poison pills in the budget?

Quote:
Mr Duncan told reporters on Wednesday. 'The one thing I do know: the people of this province do not want an election, not five months after the last one.'

The one thing I do know; the people of Ontario do not want a Liberal government. Why not offer them a government they [b]do[/b] want?

 

Wilf Day

M. Spector wrote:

NDPP wrote:

...but as things stand, Ms Horwath has shown little interest in engineering the defeat of the government.

Which severely undercuts her bargaining position.

"We tried our best to work with them. More in sorrow than in anger, I have to report that they rejected our moderate amendments. The people will have to decide."

Freedom 55

M. Spector wrote:

Quote:
The Liberals, for their part, demonstrated an openness to working with the NDP by leaving 'poison pills' - measures that would alienate the NDP constituency - out of the budget.

Really? No poison pills in the budget?

 

Yeah, seriously... WTF?! I hope that's the reporter's misguided take on it and not something that she got from an actual NDP source.

Freedom 55

Quote:

A cap on compensation for executives in the public sector is No. 1, NDP insiders say.

 

I really hope this isn't true either. Out of the [i]entire[/i] budget, surely the NDP didn't single [i]this[/i] out as the most important problem to be addressed.

NDPP

Lord save us from a hope tree that has lost the faculty of putting out blossoms.

Mark Twain

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Very appropriate quote, NDPP.

Lower income and fixed income Canadians are getting screwed left, right and centre. And by that, I mean all political parties don't seem to give a damn. Their target audience has become the middle class who are duped into believing they are going gain more than they lose by supporting these slash and burn policies.

NDPP

The surest way to lose a class war is not to know you're in one.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

home

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Wilf Day wrote:

"We tried our best to work with them. More in sorrow than in anger, I have to report that they rejected our moderate amendments. The people will have to decide."

If that's what she's going to say, then she should be a lot clearer going into "negotiations" with McGuilty that she really intends to do that, because everything she says now reads like, "We're going to see if we can get a few more crumbs from the table because we really, really, really don't want to force an election."

Besides, this budget does [b]not[/b] call for "moderate amendments". If Horwath goes in asking for moderate amendments, the result is certain to be a disaster for Ontario and for the NDP. That's a high price to pay for avoiding an election.

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:
That's a high price to pay for avoiding an election.
 

There is a higher price for Ontarians. The phony majority machine is still broken in long time Tory blue Ontario.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

M. Spector, in the previous thread-chunk, wrote:
They are desperately hoping their little "consultation" will show that Ontarians want the Legislature to "work" and don't want an election, etc. etc. blah blah. Then Horwath can tell us we can't complain, because the opinion polls told her Ontario prefers austerity over democracy.

Never mind that the poor Ontario voters think they have no alternative because the NDP isn't presenting them with one.

And things seem to be working out for Horwath exactly as she had planned:

<a href="http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2012/03/29/19568876.html">LFP</a> wrote:

The majority of Ontarians who have contacted a NDP budget hotline have urged Leader Andrea Horwath to support the Dalton McGuinty fiscal plan and avoid another provincial election so soon after the last one.

Horwath said she’s still getting public feedback and some people, especially those directly affected by cuts in the budget, want her to vote against it.

“Not unexpectedly, there’s quite a diversion [sic] of opinions out there,” Horwath said Thursday. “There are others who see that the budget is problematic in some ways but would rather not go to an election.

“If I could estimate, I would probably say there’s more leaning towards the not having the election than having the election,” she said, noting it’s just an early look at public response.

It was never about the budget or about austerity. It was always about "another election".

Michelle

Of course.  Because the survey was designed to give them that result.

I'm not surprised in the least.

The majority of Ontarians also vote Tory and Liberal, so it's not surprising that the majority of their responses supported the budget. 

So what the heck, why not just have an open poll on every decision the ONDP has to make, and see what Ontarians think?  They'll get the majority of people responding along Tory and Liberal lines, and the ONDP can just agree with the other two parties on everything.

The best part is that I was stupid enough to get sucked into responding to the survey.  I'm too gullible.

takeitslowly

Dalton is being tough on public sector workers by imposing a wage freeze, but a freeze on social assitance is not being tough on the poor? i dont get it..

Michelle

Who is saying that, takeitslowly?

takeitslowly

well , Dalton said he is not "prepared to balance this budget on the backs of families who may find themselves in difficult circumstances"

 

but he didnt say hes not ready to balance this budget on the backs of public sector workers

 

If he is doing the same thing to both groups of people, freezing wage or social assistance, than it would be fair to say hes not "prepared to balance this budget on the back of families who may find themselves in difficult circumstances" as well as "public sector workers"

 

Clearly, he didnt say that...the way he presented the budget is that he is going to control public spending while leaving those who are poor and need assistance alone, but he isnt. Public sector workers will be fine with a wage freeze IN MY OPINON, i am more worried about those who dont have a job and those who cant find a job and require assistance due to disability or this fuckedup economy.

I am sick of Mcgunity, he boasted about creating record numbers of jobs, where are they? who got these jobs? not the people who need them, thats for sure. Election wont change anything though, the NDP wont do much to help the poor, the middle class seems to be a buzz word for all of the three parties, and Hudak majority is pretty scary stuff for glbt people, so no thanks.

 

politics is a cruel joke at best, a living nightmare at its worse!

Fidel

Who wants a redo of the recent worst past the post election in Ontariariario? Groan

It's busted, Jim.

Michelle

Oh, I see what you mean now, takeitslowly.  I thought you were saying the critics of the budget were saying that.  Sorry!

Fidel, the Liberals might as well have a majority, if the NDP is afraid to stand on principle in case it triggers an election.  There's really no point to there being any dippers in the legislature at all if they're just going to give the Liberals a free ride. 

If the NDP isn't going to oppose the Liberal Party in any meaningful way, then they might as well be Liberals themselves.

Fidel

Michelle wrote:
There's really no point to there being any dippers in the legislature at all if they're just going to give the Liberals a free ride.

But we just had an election a few months ago, and somewhere more than 4 million didn't vote.

Why don't the Liberals just accept that they have a minority and are therefore obligated to make concessions with all of the other [s]democratically elected[/s] FPTP winners in the legislature? Why would the broken electoral system churn out a better result only a few months later?

What if Hudak the Horrible slides in there with 23% of the eligible vote for 110% of the power? Then what would we have to say about Horwath's decision to provoke the wrath of the phony majority mob?

Democratic elections are not snap elections for short term political gain. Voters also have a right to be informed of the issues by well-funded election campaigns over a reasonable amount of time. I don't think that is possible with snap elections. The voters are already suffering FPTP burnout. Turnouts are already abysmal. And we know which two parties have deep pockets for snap elections.

What I would do is support the budget this time but squawk like hell about it while informing the public that the NDP is being forced to support a party in government that wants to dictate the agenda with less authority than voters gave them. And start electioneering now for the next budget the Liberals want to shove down everyones throats without a proper mandate. IN the meantime the ONDP will appear to be the most generous and most reasonable party trying to make these WorstPastThePost results work instead of flies in the ointment as the Liberals and lapdog news media will likely portray us. Horwath could make herself out to be the adult minder at Queen's Park and chiding both Pinocchio and his evil twin Tim Hudak every step of the way to as democratic an election as possible under the circumstances.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Fidel wrote:

...the NDP is being forced to support a party in government that wants to dictate the agenda with less authority than voters gave them.

Nobody's forcing the NDP to support neoliberalism. They choose to do so. With your blessing.

As for McGuinty's "authority", well Andrea's little public opinion poll is going to "prove" that the Liberal austerity program is what the people really want!

Brachina

I've heard that the public sector wage freeze isn't actually in the budget, its in a seperate document.

 

Anyhow I'd enjoy another election, especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent, we could win, but I think the libs will fold on enough stuff to prevent one. Still it remains to be seen as to how the things will unfold. It could fall apart or the liberals could give in. Still being tied with the liberals is a great bargaining position.

Also after the ninities this seemed austerity light.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

"...especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent" - okay - that's what I was looking for! What's the source for this poll, and when was it taken?

Fidel

Yeah I think Pinocch' may just make concessions and avoid perpetrating another FPTP electoral fraud. And then again with a razor thin major minority McGuinty might not want another costly and phony worstpastthepost election, either. The blue-red electorate are fickle and may just decide to dump him and his government. God help us if Tim him of Hudak ever seizes phony majority power. It's a frying pan to fire scenario for the poor in Ontario, and I think Horwath has some time to play their game of worstpastthepost fraud to the NDP's advantage. She has time to blow the whistle on the two parties wanting another election so that either of them is able to seize 110% of power and calm "the market".  Things are broken as usual in Ontario.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

When is the vote for the Ontario budget - anyone know?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[b]What Andrea Horwath's public opinion poll should have asked:[/b]

Would you rather have your wages frozen for two years or have an election?

Would you rather pay more money to keep the same pension benefits or have an election?

Would you rather pay more to renew your licence plates or have an election?

Would you rather see reduced government funding for arts and culture or have an election?

Who should pay for the financial crisis - the unemployed and the disabled, or the rich?

Would you prefer to see hospital construction projects cancelled and have hospital budgets frozen, or have an election?

Would you prefer to have 17% youth unemployment or have an election?

Would you prefer to freeze the minimum wage at $10.25 an hour or have an election?

Would you rather cut 3.44% from the Aboriginal Affairs budget or have an election?

Would you prefer a 3.63% cut in the Environment Ministry budget or have an election?

Would you prefer the expansion of Public-Private Partnerships and more privatization of the delivery of government services or have an election?

Would you prefer that the government abandon its target of a measly 25% reduction in child and family poverty by 2013 or have an election?

Would you rather live in the only Canadian province without an active home energy retrofit incentive program or have an election?

Would you rather have Ontario Northland railway privatized, or have an election?

Would you rather see half a billion dollars cut from education in the next three years or have an election?

Would you rather see cuts in funding for public infrastructure and housing or have an election?

Bonus essay question: How bad would a government have to be before you would want to have a chance to vote for a change of government? In other words, how much money would you be willing to give up and how much suffering would you be willing to see others endure, in exchange for not having to get up off your ass and go to a polling station to mark a friggin' ballot?

Fidel

Yeah she has time to put all of that out there and more before forcing an election. 

Snap elections and democracy are two different things, though.

Freedom 55

Boom Boom wrote:

When is the vote for the Ontario budget - anyone know?

I don't think there's a specific date. It depends on how long the debate takes. Within the next month.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Thanks. Maybe there'll be changes if there's enough opposition to it - not just from the NDP, but also from people in all walks of life.

Brachina

Boom Boom wrote:

"...especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent" - okay - that's what I was looking for! What's the source for this poll, and when was it taken?

Forum, I got it from the star today. Andrea also has the highest approval rating, by far.

Wilf Day

Quote:
The Tories dropped to 34 per cent - down from 40 per cent in Forum's last poll two weeks ago - while the Liberals rose slightly to 30 per cent from 28 per cent. The NDP is also at 30 per cent, up from 23 per cent on March 14.

The Liberals' threat to enact legislation to prevent public-sector wages from rising was endorsed by 47 per cent with 37 per cent opposed and 16 per cent uncertain.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1154010--ontario-budget-poll-suggests-ontarians-welcome-wage-freeze

Hmm. That may mean 7% of Liberal voters oppose the wage freeze, 10% are uncertain, and only 13% support it, assuming all 34% of Tories support it. That's also assuming all 30% of NDP voters oppose it, and the 6% of Greens and others are uncertain.

We should oppose the wage freeze!

Freedom 55

Brachina wrote:

after the ninities this seemed austerity light.

 

Perhaps it does if you only choose to view it as an isolated piece of legislation, unconnected to present realities.

 

OCAP wrote:

In 1995 the Tory government cut welfare rates by 21.6 % and froze disability. Since the Liberals came to power in 2003, they have not only failed to reverse the Harris cuts, but have actually perpetuated a further decline in rates. As a result of that initial 21.6% cut coupled with inflation for the last 16 years, welfare rates are approximately 55% below where they should be. If benefit levels were restored to the same level of spending power as we had in 1994, a single person on Ontario Works would receive an immediate $904/month

OW and ODSP rates have been frozen at $599 and $1064 respectively. The rent increase guideline for 2012 is 3.1%. According to the most recent Statistics Canada figures, the cost of buying food in Ontario was up 4.1% from a year ago. Hydro is up at least 3%.

The budget also does away with the Community Start Up and Maintenance Benefit, the Home Repair Benefit, and includes cuts to other discretionary benfits for things like funerals, glasses, and emergency dental care.

[b]edited to add:[/b] This budget also comes less than a year after drastic changes to the Special Diet Benefit which resulted in most former recipients of this benefit losing much or all of this benefit. Many people saw their cheques cut by $250/month.

Ontario's NDP is apparently giving serious consideration to putting their stamp of approval on a budget that will leave people on social assistance considerably worse off than they were under [b]MIKE HARRIS[/b]. But I guess we're supposed to feel better about that because the NDP won't be doing it with the same zealous glee as the Harris Tories.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Thanks. Maybe there'll be changes if there's enough opposition to it - not just from the NDP, but also from people in all walks of life.

Maybe you should butt out like you ask issues of Quebecois to us?

Polls are trying to make chicken salad out of chicken turds. Sorry Boom Boom, I'm in solidarity with you but you're off base.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

That fucking poll didn't ask how Ontarians felt about the freeze on ODSP. Fuck you.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Brachina wrote:
Boom Boom wrote:

"...especially with the NDP at 30 percent, the liberals at 30 percent, and the cons at 34 percent" - okay - that's what I was looking for! What's the source for this poll, and when was it taken?

Forum, I got it from the star today. Andrea also has the highest approval rating, by far.

What a fucking joke. It's near quitting time. 0% for disability recipients? That's the best we got and we're going to make excuses for it? Fuck you all. Get a brain.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Wilf Day wrote:

Quote:
The Tories dropped to 34 per cent - down from 40 per cent in Forum's last poll two weeks ago - while the Liberals rose slightly to 30 per cent from 28 per cent. The NDP is also at 30 per cent, up from 23 per cent on March 14.

The Liberals' threat to enact legislation to prevent public-sector wages from rising was endorsed by 47 per cent with 37 per cent opposed and 16 per cent uncertain.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1154010--ontario-budget-poll-suggests-ontarians-welcome-wage-freeze

Hmm. That may mean 7% of Liberal voters oppose the wage freeze, 10% are uncertain, and only 13% support it, assuming all 34% of Tories support it. That's also assuming all 30% of NDP voters oppose it, and the 6% of Greens and others are uncertain.

We should oppose the wage freeze!

Are you seriously carrying on about a wage freeze? POOR YOU. How the fuck do you think ODSP recipents are feeling? Worse off than MIKE HARRIS!!!

WAKE UP!

Wilf Day

RevolutionPlease wrote:
Wilf Day wrote:
We should oppose the wage freeze!

Are you seriously carrying on about a wage freeze? POOR YOU. How the fuck do you think ODSP recipents are feeling? Worse off than MIKE HARRIS!!! WAKE UP!

See post #1 at the top of this thread.

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