Zionism And Anti-Semitism - by Edward C Corrigan
http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/03/zionism-and-anti-semitism/
"One of the favourite tactics of Israel and Zionism is to accuse their opponents of 'anti-Semitism'. This argument is advanced in an attempt to prevent criticism of Israel from being presented or to attack the individual or group, that is defending Palestinian human rights...
One also must not confuse anti-Israelism with anti-Semitism."
What exactly is "Anti-Israelism" anyways?
It seems like a curious turn of phrase. I mean, if I was talking about apartheid in South Africa, I wouldn't describe myself as an "anti-South Africaist," and I've never been accused of "anti-Sri Lankaism" for writing about Tamils. I'd describe myself as "anti-apartheid"
Maybe being against the project of Zionism is equated to being against the State's existence in it's entirety; all the better to depict such a term as being not far removed from what the Iranian president was frequently reported to have said, in case we didn't hear it reported and verified the first dozen times or so through our media, of Israel's existence.
Here we go again ...
Is ther any value to this thread?
I travel in a variety of different circles. I have certainly met some Canadian Jews who were obviously not Zionist. Howeveoften overwhelming number of Jews I know, almost entirely from the left, do define themselves as Zionist. While they vigorously object to the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians and the manner in which Netanyahu deals with the "two-state" issue, they nonetheless are fiercely supportive of the state of Israel.
I would be interested in seeing any Canadian statistics that show the majority of Canadian Jews as non-Zionists.
Is ther any value to this thread?
Well, it would appear that NDPP is being intentionally provocative, which is a good thing on babble. Whether this thread degenerates into the usual shit-flinging festival remains to be seen. I'm not optimistic.
NDPP, while I think this thread is interesting, I really REALLY wish you hadn't chosen to link to a website that sells books by the former-Israeli-turned-genuine antisemite Gilad Atzmon. The man is deeply disturbed at best, and an aid-and comfort figure to global bigots at worst.
Dissident Voice is an excellent website, with or without the "former-Israeli-turned-genuine-antisemite Gilad Atzmon". I posted this topic so that those who use the term might learn more about its meaning and misuse.
Atzmon is a person who was raised Jewish who now states, over and over again, that he hates Jews...not Israelis, Jews...Atzmon IS an antisemite and is increasingly shuuned in the Palestine solidarity community.
If he was critical of Israel, or even if he was anti-Zionist, without also expressing hatred for Jews I would never call Atzmon an antisemite.
(at the same time, he's such a useful figure for the hasbara machine, I occasionally wonder if Atzmon might be an asset for Mossad or Shin Bet).
And, other than Atzmon's presence on the website, I actually liked most of the other material I found on it.
NDPPThe man is deeply disturbed at best, and an aid-and comfort figure to global bigots at worst.
like this Zionist ?
I haven't read everything Gilad Atzmon has written, but he definitely specializes in inflammatory rhetoric. From what little I've read of his stuff, I can't figure out whether he's genuine, or simply exploiting a point of view for the sake of attention. Either way, he has nothing new or original to say.
Atzmon is the equivalent of David Duke. If anyone linked to a site featuring David Duke, I wonder what the reaction would be.
NDPPThe man is deeply disturbed at best, and an aid-and comfort figure to global bigots at worst.
like this Zionist ?
Absolutely. And you had no reason to assume I'd disagree. I've never defended people like Weinstein or groups like the JDL. If you really think I would defend them, you have a seriously distorted view of my belief system.
Wouldn't know, haven't read his book. Have you? But the charge that he is a Jew who hates Jews, is not uncommon for Jews who criitcize Zionism or Israel. This is discussed in the article posted.
Of course it is not uncommon that that charge is made. But in Atzmon's case, it's true. He's not Amira Hass, or Noam Chomsky, or Leon Rosselson or Unionist...and anti-Zionists put themselves on dangerous ground in associating themselves with the views of Atzmon.
Here's a summary from Atzmon's Wikipedia entry:
Atzmon has defined himself variously as a "secular Jew", a "proud self-hating Jew",an "ex-Jew""a Jew who hates Judaism" and "a Hebrew-speaking Palestinian." Atzmon told interviewer Theo Panayides “I don’t write about politics, I write about ethics. I write about Identity. I write a lot about the Jewish Question – because I was born in the Jew-land, and my whole process in maturing into an adult was involved with the realisation that my people are living on stolen land.” Atzmon has said that his experience in the military of “my people destroying other people left a big scar” and led to his decision that he was deluded about Zionism. He has condemned “Jewishness” as "very much a supremacist, racist tendency". He states that "I don't have anything against Jews in particular and you won't find that in my writings."
"I don't have anything against Jews IN PARTICULAR"? That's abot the same as "some of my best friends are...".
It would be different if he made a CLEAR distinction between Judaism and Zionism, and between Jews and Zionists. Yet he clearly does not. It's disturbing that he takes his views to such a self-destructive point.
John Lewis writes that Atzmon's anti-Jewish rhetoric has created many foes for Atzmon,[4] even among people once associates. Some Palestinian activists see his statements as discrediting their cause,[74] while the British Socialist Workers Party, which at one time regularly invited him to their annual Marxism event, now distances itself from Atzmon.[4]
Several of Atzmon's statements regarding Jews and Judaism have led to allegations of antisemitism. In 2004 the Board of Deputies of British Jews criticized Atzmon for saying, "I'm not going to say whether it is right or not to burn down a synagogue, I can see that it is a rational act."[75] Atzmon responded in a letter to The Observer that "since Israel presents itself as the 'state of the Jewish people' ... any form of anti-Jewish activity may be seen as political retaliation. This does not make it right."[76]
In a 2005 opinion piece David Aaronovitch criticized Atzmon for writing in his essay "On Anti-Semitism"[77] that "We must begin to take the accusation that the Jewish people are trying to control the world very seriously." and "American Jewry makes any debate on whether the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' are an authentic document or rather a forged irrelevant. American Jews do control the world, by proxy. So far they are doing pretty well for themselves at least"; Aaronovitch said Atzmon was "a silly boy advancing slightly dangerous arguments."[78] Aaronovitch also criticized Atzmon for circulating an essay by Paul Eisen defending Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel and supporting many aspects of Zündel's Holocaust denial theories
Wouldn't know, haven't read his book. Have you? But the charge that he is a Jew who hates Jews, is not uncommon for Jews who criitcize Zionism or Israel. This is discussed in the article posted.
Haven't we thrashed this out before?
Let me try to state it mathematically:
Trashing Israel = just fine.
Trashing the Jewish people = filthy anti-semitism + throwing the champions of Israel and Zionism a much-needed lifeline.
Gilad Atzmon trashes the Jewish people. Substitute in above equation and carry him out.
He already knows that, Unionist. This wasn't ignorance. This is just him baiting Jews, as per usual.
He is most certainly right about "the realisation that my people are living on stolen land". As are Canadians. Unfortunately most Canadians have not reached that realisation or have determined that it was 'meant to be'. And on that note JDL-Canada Zionists are now actively working with the right-racist Canadian settler movement against Indigenous rights so the Star of David now flies next to the Maple Leaf at redneck gatherings in Caledonia and the rednecks now join the JDL Zionist terrorists 'in defence of Israel' against Palestinian protests right here in Toronto. Settlers support settlers, Genociders support genociders.
Okay, it seems that the various POVs are represented in this thread, so I'm closing it before it becomes completely unproductive and devolves into the usual nastiness.
