Input on thread title appropriateness for rabble

I don't have my own words right now. So here are some from others.

Microaggressions

Quote:

This project is a response to "it's not a big deal" - "it" is a big deal. "It" is in the everyday. "It" is shoved in your face when you are least expecting it. "It" happens when you expect it the most. "It" is a reminder of your difference. "It" enforces difference. "It" can be painful. "It" can be laughed off. "It" can slide unnoticed by either the speaker, listener or both. "It" can silence people. "It" reminds us of the ways in which we and people like us continue to be excluded and oppressed. "It" matters because these relate to a bigger "it": a society where social difference has systematic consequences for the "others."

But "it" can create or force moments of dialogue.

....

[This blog is] about showing how these comments create and enforce uncomfortable, violent and unsafe realities onto peoples' workplace, home, school, childhood/adolescence/adulthood, and public transportation/space environments.

The term "microaggressions" was originally coined to speak particularly to racialized experiences.

Quote:

"Racial microaggressions are brief and commonplace daily verbal, behavioral, or environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative racial slights and insults toward people of color." - Racial Microaggressions in Everyday Life

This blog, however, is a space to extend this concept to different socially constructed identities that embody privilege in different ways - sexuality, class, religion, education level, to name a few - in hopes of making visible the ways in which social difference is produced and policed in everyday lives through comments of people around you.

Thanks so much, Maysie and quizzical.

We shut down "ironic racism" pretty quick now ... after a lot of work to get there. And even those who love their privileged, ignorant "humour" know enough to no longer waste their effort trying to find an audience here for their sophisticated anti-racism racism, even though they might obliquely mewl about the heavy burden of silencing they now carry, and what a loss it is to Those Of Us Without Hilarity, who pay for the absence. Dearly.

Quizzical, if someone calls a comment of mine "bullshit" I think it is in order for me to respond, no? 

In any case, I don't think too many posting here have claimed that thread title was inoffensive or at all appropriate, even though some of us are expressing different perspectives.

Thank you for pointing that out directly.

Yes, the thread did go on a tangent, and yes, I was part of it. My comment, which no one seems to have gotten, was that that last time I remember there being a problem with thread titles, it had to do with the use of the word "pig".

In any case, I apologize.

Now my point about ages and relationships? Sorry, as far as I can see that was appropriate. My main objection to the title was that an offensive, juvenile joke is doubly offensive when it glosses over things which truly are outrageous - like allowing children to marry. You may see other things there, but I assure you, that part was no joke.

Q. 

I'm not going to apologize for something I am not sorry for, and which I did in good faith.

Now if moving from your specific grievance to a more general conversation about thread titles  offends you, fine. I didn't see that, and  I honestly apologize.

But whether you think so or not, I see our fucked up marriage laws as quite relevant to the inappropriate nature of that thread title, as well as double standards around marriage equality and sexual abuse.

I got it, Smith. And gave it the time it was worth in this discussion. Same with the whole zionist thing.

These are called "distractions." They also serve as examples of "disrespect." And I believe a whole slew of people owe quizzical an apology for trivializing her concerns, indulging in boyish locker-room bonding in the face of a mind-bogglingly inappropriate focus, and using this as an opportunity to strike poses or jump on their well-worn hobby horses for one more ride. Though I don't suggest that she hold her breath for it.

Maysie: "It" can't help itself. "It" doesn't know what it's doing. "It" blames you. "It" changes the subject. "It" knows best. Always.

Exactly.

And so the culture continues. Often perpetuated and strengthened by those who are sublimely ignorant of how their own behaviour enables and enriches the beast.

I myself had decided to avoid It at this point, as years and years dealing with it personally every fucking day and then here on this board had pushed me to pretty much forfeit the board. Too painful and stupid. Until I was reading bagkitty's excellent thread, and I saw that Sven could not leave It alone, and needed to smear It in yet another corner. And so I called It out, apologizing for nibbling at the smear in the wrong thread, then coming back here (which I'd read but wasn't going to post in, not in a million years because what is the fucking use?). But it was the right place to raise it. 

Until that moment, I was willing to let It live here. I was willing to leave you to the shit. And for that, I apologize. Because I should know better. It always wants more, monster that it is. 

And quizzical, I thank you for your ability to open this up. Because the challenge is important. And seeing that others are willing to do so gives me strength. Seeing that they do so in the name of loved ones brings me boundless joy, and feelings of not being quite so alone. Feelings that, perhaps, there are a few who can understand without going through the burning hell first-hand.

I should also clarify that I thought you'd raised this issue in the offending thread, and that the thread had been mercifully closed. I'd kind of blurred the 2 threads together. Because this stuff does blur together, after a while. bagkitty helped me out with a link.

And thanks for the kind words. This place is very real to me.

p.s. I'm your mom's age. Sounds like we'd get along famously!

Very few of us talk about it. We see flippant, trivializing things like what's been demonstrated here and simply shut down. Or we don't want to expose others close to us to the raw nerve. Too many people get scared away by it. Or maybe say / do something hurtful, even (especially) after they know. Which can be beyond painful.

We've survived the worst of it. But getting triggered brings back the ghosts, and the loneliness we experienced at the time. It's a very stifling place. Very scary. It's important to remind ourselves that we've survived. And that's enough. That survival includes decisions about where, how, when and if we're up to being vulnerable to others.

Yes, Bacchus. And thanks for adding that. Some folks have triggered me so badly that I have avoided their posts for months afterwards.

Yeah, the "jokes" are brutal.

Perhaps also, babble is trying to hard to keep itself relevant. There's been indications, behaviour that wasn't tolerated before is being let go.

And, maybe the frat boy should go on strike, you oh so clever GUYS.

It's not that hard Catchfire (I mean that with the utmost respect). Clamp down. Make it a safe place for women.

That's it. That's all. You might be surprised at the results. Limit male dialogue. Tell us to shut the FUCK UP! It's not hard. If us tough, witty, machismo, mofo's can't it, give them a break.

People that want to stick around will. If they don't, were they really worth the effort here?

I don't mean to be dick but this place is "mostly" just a bunch of white dudes swinging their dicks around with "token" (again with all due respect) representation of the 52% of women in Canada.

Perhaps you can pass this on to Derrick O'Grief. I'm a lazy bastard and have enough trouble trying to post sometimes.

You'll never be what you purport to be until both rabble and babble represent the 52% of women in our society.

The only way to accomplish that in the short term at least is to thin out the herd a tad, in another last ditch attempt to better the percentages. I don't see the culture changing much toward the better because the culture of our society has barely moved forward, and it has even regressed in certain aspects. We don't think before we speak because the language of our society flows out as the normal discourse, from the visual and audio stimulus of everyday life, down through the stem and out through the mouth. Managing to realize it when pointed out is certainly no guarantee that some other mindlessness won't make it through the next time around, which might occur at any point after drawing the next breath. But we make up and perpetuate in this manner what passes for the societal norm, which is to speak and act without regard for consequences and history and circumstances and our traditional role in everything. I compare it to the contemporary political situation, which regardless of persuasion ultimately works for no one except for a globalized market. As much as we may suspect this to be the case in some recess of the mind, we keep falling back on it as the only thing we know by instinct which gets us through the day. We can't even comprehend what a mass desertion from the existing politics would look or feel like from fear of losing the only voice we have, the voice and language of patriarchy which is instilled within all of us in a gender neutral fashion, with its varying effects as a result. By this we've been taught to communicate whatever desire we may have toward change or the status quo, but which ends up in any event sounding much like the thoughtless and often violent spoken word of the existing culture, even if it's shouted or whispered in our ears in the same foul voice we've been hearing all our lives, that we may no longer wish to emulate.  Even a desertion from the board as a remedy only constitutes a virtual sweeping under the rug.  The same overall constant always manages to endure.

KenS wrote:

What is the offending thread where bagkitty was posting [whatever] ?

Here is the offending post that started this firestorm (I regret adding that ETA): http://rabble.ca/comment/1345375

@ SJ #83

I think there are a few ways of looking at that. 

Point of order:

Is this within the scope of this discussion? If there is objection I can take it someplace else.

Some lovely comments, SJ. Actually, like RP, I have found this thread encouraging (when it's not despairing), for the simple fact that these discussions are happening again (if only among a select few, if only with the usual denouments).

I have more to say, but I'm also getting a bit overwhelmed. I'm not going to engage with you Winston, but I really wish you would recognize the truths in SJ's post #83 before jumping to argue with it. I wish everyone would.

Catchfire wrote:

Some lovely comments, SJ. Actually, like RP, I have found this thread encouraging (when it's not despairing), for the simple fact that these discussions are happening again (if only among a select few, if only with the usual denouments). I have more to say, but I'm also getting a bit overwhelmed. I'm not going to engage with you Winston, but I really wish you would recognize the truths in SJ's post #83 before jumping to argue with it. I wish everyone would.

Before we break out the ribbons I think you might want to have a look at posts 14 through 16 here for context.

writer wrote:

These are called "distractions." They also serve as examples of "disrespect." And I believe a whole slew of people owe quizzical an apology for trivializing her concerns, indulging in boyish locker-room bonding in the face of a mind-bogglingly inappropriate focus, and using this as an opportunity to strike poses or jump on their well-worn hobby horses for one more ride. Though I don't suggest that she hold her breath for it.

I want to apologize for my post #33, on the "dirty zionist" thread title tangent. Not because of anything I wrote on the "dirty zionist" topic, but because I now realize that that tangent was not within the scope of this thread, and when dealing with a discussion around rape culture, thread drift constitutes "marginalizing the issue".

Where's the condemnation for smearing Fidel as an anti-semite?

heh!

[img]http://cf3.8tracks.us/mix_covers/000/691/787/14267.sq250.jpg[/img]

And I hope Catchfire would heartily understand why I give him a big Fuck U! as a mod.

We can do better...;)

How's the hockey game for the next title?

I gotta do more.

We all can.

Careful with that Q-tip.

Yep, we've pretty much spit the bit.

Catchfire should honorably resign.

This place needs to be taken over by women. (in my dreams)

Sorry Catch, but it's true.