Greece

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Jacob Richter

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
And let's say a miracle happens: Syriza wins, and ignores the external pressure for austerity, doesn't get sucked into a bunch of terrible concessions between bickering factions, and creates a coherent anti-austerity strategy. There's still no guarantee this strategy will be able to grow the economy and improve living standards. The financial class can still be ruthless and try to sabotage trade and investment in Greece. There's still the possibility that it's too little too late, and the best Greece can do is patch up a broken economy. There's also plenty of economic disasters looming: the collapse of the Euro-zone, America on the brink, another investor-created bubble, a dramatic shift in oil prices... Another unexpected disaster might completely undermine Syriza's plans, let alone destroy any sense of co-operation or credibility among their new government.

Anyway... I've already ranted too much. The real point is, as someone considered "left" on the Canadian political spectrum, I would never point to Greece as a role model for an alternative to American-style capitalism.

Apples and oranges, indeed.

OK, so why haven't you considered the possibility of the Greek government trying to achieve manufacturing self-sufficiency and construction self-sufficiency?

Ken Burch

quizzical wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:
Letting "settlers"(of whom I am a descendant)off the hook was the last thing I intended to do with that post. 

i  see the colonization as continuing...it's still in the process. in Canada  more than the USA or parts of the USA. Alaska is still being taken over by settlers. sometimes not intending doesn't mean that it's not happening. 'cause you just let yourself off the hook.

i know you're an ally. and i appreciate this discussion.

I am fully aware that Alaska is still being taken over by settlers, and that ending the settler mindset is crucial to creating a just world.  Any suggestions as to how I could have expressed what I was trying to say upthread that would have avoided the appearance that I was giving settlers a pass?  I guess I need to find some different ways of expressiong my arguments and you could be someone I could learn from on this.

socialdemocrati...

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I am hopeful though since you are the first to raise this strange idea.

Definitely not the first. The battle-cry of the right-wing has been to point to Greece as a cautionary tale against government spending. I might only be the first to call bullshit on that right-wing idea on this board. Greece isn't an example of anything other than a unique crisis of mismanagement.

Jacob Richter wrote:
OK, so why haven't you considered the possibility of the Greek government trying to achieve manufacturing self-sufficiency and construction self-sufficiency?

Not up to me to consider it. That's up to SYRIZA. They haven't proposed withdrawing from the eurozone yet, let alone closing their borders to trade. But I wouldn't be surprised if it gains traction in one or more factions of the party. Which would be pretty stupid, IMO, considering that shipping is the biggest value-added industry they have, and it's necessarily an international industry. A proposal like this would almost certainly turn the left into a circular firing squad, and reveal the huge fissures between the Maoists and the alter-globalists.

quizzical

sweeping inclusions minimize. they don't elevate into priority.

Jacob Richter

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:
Jacob Richter wrote:
OK, so why haven't you considered the possibility of the Greek government trying to achieve manufacturing self-sufficiency and construction self-sufficiency?

Not up to me to consider it. That's up to SYRIZA. They haven't proposed withdrawing from the eurozone yet, let alone closing their borders to trade. But I wouldn't be surprised if it gains traction in one or more factions of the party. Which would be pretty stupid, IMO, considering that shipping is the biggest value-added industry they have, and it's necessarily an international industry. A proposal like this would almost certainly turn the left into a circular firing squad, and reveal the huge fissures between the Maoists and the alter-globalists.

Huh?  Shipping right now aids in importing goods, not in exporting goods.  My proposal would keep or perhaps even boost the shipping industry.

NDPP

Chances of Greece Remaining in EU, Slim' (and vid)

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/06/04/244621/chances-of-greece-remaining-...

"The French Finance Minister has warned that Greece's exit from the eurozone will be on the agenda if Greek authorities do not respect the bailout deal after parliamentary elections in mid June. George Galloway's 'Real Deal' program.

Max Keiser: Ep 297

http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-297-max-keiser/

"Capital flees Greece (and Spain). Max talks to Detlev Schlichter, author of Paper Money Collapse, about the euro, the drachma, the dollar and gold.."

MegB

Closing.

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