Syria #7: Russia readies marines for Syria mission

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Mon, 2012-06-18 14:17

CDN_FORCES

BEIRUT—Syrian forces shelled the central city of Homs on Monday during a fierce offensive to root out rebels as the country's most important ally, Russia, appeared to show growing concern over President Bashar Assad's future.

Russia's Interfax news agency reported that two Russian navy ships are prepared to head to Syria to protect Russian citizens and a naval base there.

“We must protect our citizens,” Maj.-Gen. Vladimir Gradusov was quoted as saying. “We won't abandon the Russians and will evacuate them from the conflict zone, if necessary.”

Each ship is capable of carrying up to 300 marines and a dozen tanks, according to Russian media reports. That would make it the largest known Russian troop deployment to Syria, signalling that Moscow is becoming increasingly uneasy about Syria's slide toward civil war.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1212893--russia-readies-marine...

Mon, 2012-06-18 15:11

NDPP

Washington Arming Syria Insurgents - by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/washington-arming-syria-insurgents

"Rhetorically supporting peace while waging war exposes Washington's transparent hypocrisy.."

Russian Warships 'Ready' to Sail for Syria

http://www.rt.com/news/russia-ships-syria-089/

"It is being reported that large Russian amphibious naval ships are steaming toward the Syrian port of Tarturus, where Russian civilians and naval infrastructure are under threat from ongoing civil disorder. But according to an officer stationed with the Black Sea Fleet, the Nikolay Filchenkov and Ceasar Kunikov are still sitting in dock in Sevastopol. Moreover, the crew is said to be on 'regular service duty' and are under no emergency orders.."

Syria Strategy Looks Like A Bloody Repeat - by Scott Taylor

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/syria-strategy-looks-like-a-b...

"Since the outset, the western powers, led by USA and cheerleading Canada, have declared their objective to be regime change in Syria..."

Mon, 2012-06-18 15:13

kropotkin1951

Quote:

Meetings with senior National Security Council officials were also held. FSA members want heavy weapons. They include anti-tank missiles and heavy machine guns.

"(T)he Daily Telegraph has learned that advanced contingency plans are already in place to supply heavy weapons to the rebels, including sophisticated anti-tank weapons and surface to-air-missiles."

Plans may crystallize at the upcoming June 30 Geneva Friends of Syria meeting. The June 18-19 Los Cabos, Mexico summit will focus more on Eurozone economic crisis conditions.

Syria discussions won't change Russian and Chinese opposition to military intervention.

Nonetheless, Obama and Putin will hold bilateral talks. It'll be their first meeting since Putin's reelection. Obama will also meet privately with Chinese President Hu Jintao. Expect no Syrian breakthroughs.

Unnamed "(s)enior Middle East diplomatic sources" said large insurgent weapons supplies are already stockpiled. "(I)nevitable" intervention is coming. At issue is toppling Assad. One unnamed source said:

It "will happen. It is not a question of 'if,' but 'when.' "

"Middle Eastern diplomatic sources said that the Obama administration was fully aware of the preparations being made to arm Syrian opposition groups."

"The US has also agreed to be part of a group of countries that coordinates assistance to the rebels, the sources said, but was still deliberating over the time frame for escalation."

On June 16, DEBKAfile said Washington "is very near a decision on the types of weapons to be shipped to the Syrian rebels and when."

Most supplied are bought and paid for. Saudi Arabia and Qatar funds were used. "The White House is also close to deciding on the format of its military operation in Syria."

http://warisacrime.org/content/washington-arming-syria-insurgents

Mon, 2012-06-18 21:11

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

This is no big deal; the Russian Marines are to be used to secure Russian personnel in Syria and the naval base they operate on the Syrian coast should the regime start to fall apart.

This is nothing the USA wouldn't do if the roles were reversed so I don't see us making a very big deal out of this in the end.

Tue, 2012-06-19 01:13

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

This is no big deal; the Russian Marines are to be used to secure Russian personnel in Syria and the naval base they operate on the Syrian coast should the regime start to fall apart.

This is nothing the USA wouldn't do if the roles were reversed so I don't see us making a very big deal out of this in the end.

lol! Since when have the Russians ever aided and abetted Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliates similarly to attack a single one of the dozens of repressive U.S. client states around the world? Ever notice where 'er the US Military and NATO are, there go Al-CIA'da and other right wing extremists?

Tue, 2012-06-19 16:44

macktheknife

Ship carrying arms for Syria returning to Russia

Seriously? National policy is now vetoed by insurance companies? Weren't these helicoptors being refurbished and returned to Syria per the purchase agreement between Syria and Russia? Sounds like Putin had a really good "talk" with Obama.

Tue, 2012-06-19 16:46

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Fidel wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

This is no big deal; the Russian Marines are to be used to secure Russian personnel in Syria and the naval base they operate on the Syrian coast should the regime start to fall apart.

This is nothing the USA wouldn't do if the roles were reversed so I don't see us making a very big deal out of this in the end.

lol! Since when have the Russians ever aided and abetted Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliates similarly to attack a single one of the dozens of repressive U.S. client states around the world? Ever notice where 'er the US Military and NATO are, there go Al-CIA'da and other right wing extremists?

Please explain how you twisted what I posted into Russia using its Marines to help Al-Qaeda and Qaeda affiliates when I clearly said they are going to be used to safe guard Russian citizens and the Russian naval base in Syria.

Honestly Fidel sometimes it seems like you're out there posting stuff not even related to what you're responding to as long as it insists al-Qaida is the CIA or whatever. We know you think that; we get it and nobody is going to waste their time trying to convince you otherwise.

Tue, 2012-06-19 16:51

kropotkin1951

I love the CBC's balanced reporting. The final line is their reporting on the Syrian governments view, "The Syrian government regularly refers to the rebels as terrorists."

Tue, 2012-06-19 17:44

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Please explain how you twisted what I posted into Russia using its Marines to help Al-Qaeda and Qaeda affiliates when I clearly said they are going to be used to safe guard Russian citizens and the Russian naval base in Syria.

Well if you read what you actually wrote, you suggest that the USA would do the same if roles are reversed. Okay, then, all I did was reverse the roles. No need to get upset about my doing exactly what you proposed we do, is there?

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Honestly Fidel sometimes it seems like you're out there posting stuff not even related to what you're responding to as long as it insists al-Qaida is the CIA or whatever. We know you think that; we get it and nobody is going to waste their time trying to convince you otherwise.

I don't think you've ever tried to convince us otherwise. And it's not very likely that you would succeed and especially not when you have congressmen asking why the US Government is propping-up Al-Qa'eda in Syria and on the border in Turkey. In fact, there have been whistleblowers in and out of US Government since 9/11 revealing that your government has been cozy with Qa'eda for some time. Al-Qa'eda plus US Government is nothing new, Bec. They've been training Mujahideen -e-Khalq terrorists in Nevada since 2005. Don't you think it strange when M.E.K. is listed as a terrorist group along with LIFG which is literally a wing of Al-Qa'eda? Your bipartisan war governments heart militant Islam for a long time, Bec, and since at least the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran. The Sovs stabbed them in the back when the Berlin Wall came down. They need a bogeyman to justify the massive corporate welfare programs for about 8000 private military contractors lobbying both war parties with kick-back, graft and perpetuating the long-time corruption in US Government. What you should be demanding as a citizen of the USSA is a new period of transparency and accountablity to the public. The glasnost is half full.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31309][size=14]Proxy War With Iran and Russia: Intervention in Syria Has Nothing to do with Humanitarian Concerns[/size][/url] Foundation for Defence of Democracy's Clifford May admits Syria is a proxy war with Iran and Russia, Neo-Cons in bed with Al Qaeda. Human rights merely a pretense.

Quote:
Clifford May begins by playing the "humanitarian card" but ends admitting the entire conflict is a proxy war with Iran, and by implication, Russia. Amid a myriad of lies directed at Iran, May proposes worldwide occupation is necessary to maintain American "influence in the long run," a notion that sounds suspiciously a lot like Empire.
....

May also makes mention of "strange bedfellows" in the current conflict, by quoting a fellow commentator who stated, "the McCain wing of the Republican party, and the rest of Washington's progressive, Islamophilic clerisy" are aligning with "al-Qaeda emir Ayman al-Zawahiri and Muslim Brotherhood icon Yusuf al-Qaradawi."

It's not Elvis bin Laden anymore. Qa'eda's number one fake leader is now Ayman al-Zawahiri. (See USA.-Al-Qa'eda alliance in Kosovo by Canadian Peter Dale Scott)

Tue, 2012-06-19 18:04

#10

thorin_bane

Fidel in the last thread I was implying that our friend in the forces was showing willful ignorance, and No that isn't an excuse for killing kids amoung other so called justified crimes our thugs commit.

Tue, 2012-06-19 18:27

#11

NDPP

speaking of which, is everybody cool with how CDN_FORCES was dispatched? If it can happen to him it can happen to us - and as easily, and presumably with nary a notice or objection taken to the manner of his taking out. It was not necessary. It could easily be our friend Bec next. This is not good nor the acquiesence to it.

Armed Gangs in Syria Receive Weapons from Israel: Reports

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/19/246992/syrian-gangs-receiving-is...

Tue, 2012-06-19 18:54

#12

Fidel

Roger that, Thorin.

Tue, 2012-06-19 19:41

#13

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

speaking of which, is everybody cool with how CDN_FORCES was dispatched?

I don't want to derail this thread, and I see your one in reactions is gone, so I hope no one minds a brief response.

I disagree with CDN_FORCES more than I agree with him. On the other hand, I have made arguments with some similarities to his on occasion.

I did see a warning, though speaking generally, if some action is to be taken, I prefer to see a timeout before a suspension.

Just my opinion.

Wed, 2012-06-20 11:20

#14

6079_Smith_W

I didn't ask for permission.

As awkward as NDPP's question made me feel, I would have felt even more awkward if I had just let it be answered with stone silence.

If I have interrupted your thread, I apologize. Carry on.

Wed, 2012-06-20 11:33

#15

NDPP

Thanks Smith.

Homs Rebels: Army Must Leave or We'll Start Killing Civilians

http://www.rt.com/news/homs-army-leave-civilians-311/

"Almost all towns are under the government control except for Homs, where rebels and 'terrorists' have asked the army to leave - otherwise they have threatened to kill civilians.."

Wed, 2012-06-20 12:06

#16

Fidel

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31509][size=14]BREAKING: "Private Security Companies" in Syria, Supporting Rebels: Foreign Mercenaries Detained[/size][/url]

Quote:
Sources say at least 200-300 private security company employees are captured beside hundreds of foreign military and service personnel during the last 14 months of foreign terror provocation. Among them are Portuguese nationals, who are paratroopers - and about whom Syria is asking itself how they entered the country. During interrogation they claimed to have retired from army duty, which somehow contradicts in some cases how old they look. Sources add, that some of those foreign officials somehow settled in the region at least months before they started their terror campaign

40-60 German Gladios caught red-handed by government troops. Is unemployment in democratic capitalist western Europe that bad?

Wed, 2012-06-20 12:55

#17

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Fidel wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Please explain how you twisted what I posted into Russia using its Marines to help Al-Qaeda and Qaeda affiliates when I clearly said they are going to be used to safe guard Russian citizens and the Russian naval base in Syria.

Well if you read what you actually wrote, you suggest that the USA would do the same if roles are reversed. Okay, then, all I did was reverse the roles. No need to get upset about my doing exactly what you proposed we do, is there?

... YES, the USA would send in Marines to protect US personnel and the naval base if the country (an allied one not Syria) they were in was about to fall apart... where you get support al-Qaida is beyond me. Again I see nothing big in this (the Russian Marines going to Syria).

As for CDN_FORCES being banned (if it happened) who'd seen it coming? I just wish I could have bet money on it with someone; I could use the drinking money.

Wed, 2012-06-20 13:31

#18

NDPP

it was for allegedly defending imperialism so best take care, although the ndp does it constantly, you could be next..

Wed, 2012-06-20 15:57

#19

kropotkin1951

Catchfire wrote:

Hi CDN_FORCES, I'm reminding you that babble has an anti-imperialist mandate. Justifying killing civilians because the bomber promises to try really hard not to kill them falls rather outside its perimeter. For that matter, so does mocking people who "stay at home" rather than go kill people for freedom.

If you want to take NATO's side in this conflict, you need to find other rhetoric.

Winston Smith wrote:

so I hope no one minds a brief response.

Winston Smith wrote:

I didn't ask for permission.

Whatever 6079. Please PM trhe moderators if you have a problem with their rulings. You claim that you agree they should have the power to ban so if you want to debate a ruling I think that is the proper avenue.

Wed, 2012-06-20 15:59

#20

kropotkin1951

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

As for CDN_FORCES being banned (if it happened) who'd seen it coming? I just wish I could have bet money on it with someone; I could use the drinking money.

I apologize for other posters comparing you with CDN_Forces. You are fun to discuss military issues with, he was here to troll. That is my take.

Wed, 2012-06-20 17:19

#21

6079_Smith_W

Hey, I was just answering a question posed by NDPP. I'm not really interested getting into that greater issue or causing a big stink, and I did look for somewhere else to post it. But it was a question that to my mind demanded at least a response.

But again, if it's a distraction to whomever owns the thread now (seeing as that position is now up for grabs) then perhaps those who are so interested should get back to that more important issue.

And you can, really. Because I'm done.

Wed, 2012-06-20 18:17

#22

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
... YES, the USA would send in Marines to protect US personnel and the naval base if the country (an allied one not Syria) they were in was about to fall apart... where you get support al-Qaida is beyond me. Again I see nothing big in this (the Russian Marines going to Syria).

You can cover your eyes and plug your ears, but it doesn't make the world go away.

Clinton: Qaeda, USA on same side again, this time in Syria

Hillary "I'm a Liberal Democrat and corrupt as you want" Clinton wrote:
"We have a very dangerous set of actors in the region, Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and those who are on our terrorist list, to be sure, supporting - claiming to support the opposition [in Syria]."

Clinton's admission that Al-Qaeda is aiding the armed insurrection in Syria dovetails the news that Qatar and Turkey airlifted weapons and supplies to anti-Syrian terrorists.

London Telegraph reported that terrorist commander Abdulhakim Belhadj, previously head of the Tripoli Military Council,

Quote:
"...met with Free Syrian Army leaders in Istanbul and on the border with Turkey," after being sent there by Mustafa Abdul Jalil, the interim Libyan president.

Abdul Hakim Belhadj, NATO's terrorist commander of Tripoli, tookover command of LIFG from former top Qaeda leader in Afghanistan, Abu Laith al-Libi.

Of course, I'm being very generous with pointing this out to you. You seem to be oblivious as to what your government and its Middle Eastern imperialist friendly nations have been up to recently. In fact, you seem to know very little of the topic of discussion at hand merely pop-in here once in a while to make comments of a combative and confrontational nature and demanding that I bring you up to speed. And I find it's difficult to keep up with how little you know about what's going in Syria in general. You might want to try reading the New York Times or Washington Post to clue yourself in once in a while, though. They aren't perfect sources of info by any means, but you should try to make the effort anyway. You might find yourself with something to contribute in discussion threads, like this one for instance. The goal in posting, imo, is to try to leave thread participants with the feeling that they are smarter for what you've bothered to take the time to post and not wondering why you bothered. It's not good enough to plunk yourself down and say in typical Sergeant Schultzian defense, I know nothing. Noth-ing of what you are talking about. That's just willful ignorance imo.

Thu, 2012-06-21 06:19

#23

A_J

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You can take your bitching about the moderators to another thread.

For full disclosure, I've flagged this post for oppressive, anti-feminist language.

Thu, 2012-06-21 07:00

#24

MegB

Duly noted A_J.

Kropotkin, as a self-proclaimed feminist man, I would've thought you'd be more sensitive to these kinds of language issues.

But, then again, looking at the content of this thread, with its complete lack of diversely gendered participation, I'm not at all surprised.

Thu, 2012-06-21 09:41

#25

Merowe

A_J wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You can take your bitching about the moderators to another thread.

For full disclosure, I've flagged this post for oppressive, anti-feminist language.

Any thoughts on Syria while you're here?

Nah. Din't think so.

Thu, 2012-06-21 09:56

#26

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Syrian pilot defects to Jordan with plane

Quote:

A Syrian fighter pilot on a training mission flew his MiG-21 warplane to Jordan on Thursday and asked for political asylum, the first defection of an air force pilot with his plane during the 15-month uprising against President Bashar Assad.

The defection was a triumph for the rebels who are fighting to overthrow Assad. The air force is considered fiercely loyal to the government, and the defection suggests some of Syria's most ironclad allegiances are fraying. A spokesman for the rebel Free Syrian Army, Ahmad Kassem, said the group had encouraged the pilot to defect and monitored his activity until the jet landed safely in Jordan. He said the pilot was based in southern Syria.

This is to be expected (some defections) and while not huge in its self I agree with the articles assessment this could indicate that cracks are starting to form in the upper echelons of the regimes military.

The MIG-21 while no longer a top of the line fighter is still the workhorse of many national air forces.

Thu, 2012-06-21 10:20

#27

Boom Boom

Last week I saw on various networks that Assad was supposed to run to Russia taking $6billlion with him to deposit in Russian banks. Since he's apparently still in power, I guess that's another bogus news story from the MSM.

Thu, 2012-06-21 10:29

#28

Fidel

Who is the opposition in Syria, Bec? Why is your government and their vicious toadies in Ottawa, Baird and Harper, ignoring Syria's democratic opposition in Damascus while supporting a group of fractious right wing religious fundamentalists criss-crossing in and out of Syria as if borders since independence from France and Arab Republic are non-existent? We know you don't support militant Islam, but why do the U.S. Government and its NATO lackies?

Since 9/11 all of us are supposed to believe that militant Islam is the enemy. See what they make you give?

---

And, where are the feminists in this thread? How do feminist babblers feel about militant Islam, theocratic feudalism, and what amounts to western world support for violent misogynists and religious fundamentalists and this time in Syria?

The silence is deafening.

Thu, 2012-06-21 10:42

#29

kropotkin1951

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I don't want to derail this thread, and I see your one in reactions is gone, so I hope no one minds a brief response.

Since you are pretending to ask for permission then I must say that I would prefer if you would just not derail the thread. You haven't even made a post in this thread on the topic. You can take your complaining about the moderators to another thread.

ETA My apologies for slipping into dominant language.

Thu, 2012-06-21 11:22

#30

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Fidel wrote:

Who is the opposition in Syria, Bec? ---

Is this a trick question?...

Thu, 2012-06-21 11:32

#31

kropotkin1951

A_J wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You can take your "complaining" about the moderators to another thread.

For full disclosure, I've flagged this post for oppressive, anti-feminist language.

So AJ what to you think about peace as a feminist issue. I am sure your commitment to feminist discourse must be more than just correcting your allies on inadvertent language slips. You could have PM'ed me and I would have changed it as soon as I realized my stupid comment. But no on babble public shaming and pillorying is the preferred method of correcting allies. Of course if you don't think I am a ally then I would deserve your very pointed comment.

But really what do you think about the male war games being played out in Syria. Do you think that the NATO driven civil war will help or hurt the cause of women in Syria?

http://rabble.ca/babble/feminism/peace-feminist-issue

Thu, 2012-06-21 12:15

#32

MegB

kropotkin1951 wrote:

A_J wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You can take your "complaining" about the moderators to another thread.

For full disclosure, I've flagged this post for oppressive, anti-feminist language.

So AJ what to you think about peace as a feminist issue. I am sure your commitment to feminist discourse must be more than just correcting your allies on inadvertent language slips. You could have PM'ed me and I would have changed it as soon as I realized my stupid comment. But no on babble public shaming and pillorying is the preferred method of correcting allies. Of course if you don't think I am a ally then I would deserve your very pointed comment.

But really what do you think about the male war games being played out in Syria. Do you think that the NATO driven civil war will help or hurt the cause of women in Syria?

http://rabble.ca/babble/feminism/peace-feminist-issue

Would it kill you to simply say, "You're right. I'm sorry." But no, you have to go on the offensive. This is a perfect example of why there are so few women participating on babble.

ETA: There is no shame in making a mistake -- we all do it and a simple mea culpa allows everyone to move on -- just as there is nothing wrong pointing out the mistake in the first place. Not one of us is an example of "the perfect progressive" (whatever that is) but we hate like hell having it brought to our attention.

Anyway, enough thread drift.

Thu, 2012-06-21 12:58

#33

kropotkin1951

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I don't want to derail this thread, and I see your one in reactions is gone, so I hope no one minds a brief response.

Since you are pretending to ask for permission then I must say that I would prefer if you would just not derail the thread. You haven't even made a post in this thread on the topic. You can take your complaining about the moderators to another thread.

ETA My apologies for slipping into dominant language.

This was what I did to correct my mistake as soon as I saw it before I posted anything else. Sorry Rebbecca I will try harder in the future.

Thu, 2012-06-21 13:11

#34

MegB

kropotkin1951 wrote:

This was what I did to correct my mistake as soon as I saw it before I posted anything else. Sorry Rebbecca I will try harder in the future.

Thank you. I sincerely appreciate the effort you - and many others - are making to create a more woman-friendly place here on babble.

Thu, 2012-06-21 13:47

#35

kropotkin1951

Rebbecca could you please edit the posts at 23 and 25 to completely remove the offensive language I was responsible for.

Thu, 2012-06-21 15:33

#36

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Who is the opposition in Syria, Bec? ---

Is this a trick question?...

The reason your government and vicious toadies in Ottawa mention not the democratic political opposition in Syria is similar to the reason why democratic opposition in Kabul is never mentioned in favour of the Taliban. Taliban is all you know of and hear about the opposition in Afghanistan, and yet that group of former US proxies represent maybe 20% of total "insurgents" in that country. Only warlords and other right wing extremists are worthy of mention in Warshington and Ottawa. Why is that, Bec?

Right wing extremists in the NATO countries are trying desperately to rape our minds as if we were so many Afghan, Iraqi, Libyan or Syrian women whose basic rights are violated daily and who will surely have no rights once Assad is overthrown by violent misogynists currently aided and abetted by the west and imperialist helper nations in the "Middle East."

Thu, 2012-06-21 15:55

#37

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I have no idea what you want me to say... but to say that only outside Islamist and NATO troops are the only ones fighting the government forces in Syria would be incorrect. I have no idea of their break down but it would appear the Islamist and the FSA are the hardest fighting of the bunch... even that is speculation as all the Syrian resistance factions that post on YouTube pretty much act the same way which is, strangely enough, just like the Iraqi resistance did when it existed. Allot of Syrians fought in Iraq and the regime pretty much ignored them coming and going during the Iraq occupation. It now looks like some of those chickens have come home to roost.

Also you have any clue as to why Sen. McCain is "complaining" about the USA not giving the Syrian resistance weapons when you in fact say the USA is? Is he misinformed?

http://rt.com/usa/news/mccain-syria-american-arms-777/

Thu, 2012-06-21 16:49

#38

kropotkin1951

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Also you have any clue as to why Sen. McCain is "complaining" about the USA not giving the Syrian resistance weapons when you in fact say the USA is?

My best guess is he is an old fool who isn't in the loop on the various actions being conducted by the American agencies that the White House and other sources admit are on the ground in Syria.

Thu, 2012-06-21 17:20

#39

Merowe

My understanding is that arms are being channeled to the rebels through American proxies Saudi and Qatar who fund the acquisition. Its fairly simple to smuggle gear in across the Lebanese border - as local tribes have done for long-long time and it is happening.

I also understand that as the central authority is being challenged local feuds are flaring up, along all the sordid lines, ethnic, religious etc. That's the trouble with an escalating violence scenario: noone can control it and that is the case here. In this light I think its mistaken to give much weight to any notion of a unified 'rebel' force with deep grass roots.

Personally one of my greatest concerns is for the peerless trove of antiquities which lay across the length and breadth of this ancient land, as in Iraq. I learned recently for example that some force - either pro or anti, it seems increasingly immaterial - is shelling the Crusader fortress of Krak des Chevaliers. Noone is quite sure why, there is no armed presence there, it seems simple bloodymindedness, like the Bamiyan buddhas. Another reason why de-escalation is the only course I can get behind, asap. Talks, somewhere to revitalize the grudging steps Assad had already started taking.

Senator McCain is a froot loop.

Thu, 2012-06-21 17:57

#40

NDPP

Germany Rules Out Military Intervention in Syria

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/21/247213/germany-opposed-military-...

"Germany has strongly opposed military intervention in Syria, adding voice to the calls for a political solution to the country's prolonged crisis..."

Satanic Alliance Forces Against Syria: Analyst (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/21/247312/satanic-alliance-forms-ag...

"According to a New York Times report published on Thursday, some US and Arab intelligence officials say a group of 'CIA officers are operating secretly in southern Turkey' and that the agents are helping the anti-Syrian governments decide which gangs inside the Arab country will 'receive arms to fight the Syrian government.' Interview with Mohsen Saleh of Lebanese University in Beirut."

Thu, 2012-06-21 18:13

#41

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Also you have any clue as to why Sen. McCain is "complaining" about the USA not giving the Syrian resistance weapons when you in fact say the USA is? Is he misinformed?

Oh fcs! Details-details. Is McCain clueless? No, he isn't. I'm not sure what McCain does at work all day, but he can't use the excuse that he is too broke to pay attention. I'm afraid Sen. McCain is talking out of the other side of his mouth again.

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/world/middleeast/cia-said-to-aid-in-st.... Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian Opposition[/size][/url]

New York Times wrote:
The weapons, including automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria's Muslim Brotherhood and paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the officials said.

Cosmetic U.S. Government may not be officially involved, but its clandestine services department is in there like a dirty shirt again.

Fri, 2012-06-22 01:34

#42

NDPP

Ousting Assad: Western Panacea to Syrian Conflict? (and vid)

http://www.rt.com/news/assad-syria-power-transfer-clemency-447/

"The new Western tactic to creating an end to violence in Syria is, yet again, centered on ousting President Assad. Britain and the US are ready to offer Assad clemency would he join a UN sponsored conference on a power transfer. But Assad still has a lot of legitimacy within Syria, with more than 50 percent of the population's support, political analyst Roula Taly told RT.."

Russia Rejects Scheme to Push Assad into Resignation, Exile

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/21/247283/russia-rejects-schemes-pu...

"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has ruled out any peace plan for Syria that calls on President Bashar al Assad to step down and go into exile. 'It is infeasible because he will not leave', he added.."

US-Led Vicious Alliance Behind Violence in Syria: Analyst (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/22/247372/us-nasty-alliance-behind-...

"US media has confirmed that the CIA is helping armed gangs in Syria, operating out of Turkey with weapons smuggled through Turkey [and Lebanon]. Press TV has interviewed Franklin Lamb, a Beirut-based international lawyer, about the details of the NYT report and the impact this crisis is having on Lebanon..

'the goal, besides regime change, is to weaken Iran and weaken Hezbollah. So the stakes are very, very high. I have little doubt that the Americans will go much further in the future as far as ratcheting up the pressure to implement its goals.."

Fri, 2012-06-22 11:35

#43

NDPP

Canadian Military Planners Spin Syria Scenarios as UN Suspends Mission

http://www.globeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-military-planners-spi...

"The Canadian military is drawing up contingency plans in case the Harper government chooses to join any international intervention in the Syria crisis. A broad range of scenarios are under consideration, one high-ranking official at National Defence told the Canadian Press. Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, said Syria is in a civil war and he hoped Russia would set aside its reservations and agree to invoke the UN,s Chapter 7. That allows the Security Council to take military action to restore the peace.

'If they established safe zones tomorrow, half the world would sigh a sigh of relief and say, 'Oh my God. Good. We've done that. We've done something,' said Mr [Lewis] Mackenzie who commanded Canadian peacekeeprs during the siege of Sarajevo.."

and the other half would say there's the disgusting Canadians playing satan's little helper once more..

Fri, 2012-06-22 18:56

#44

Fidel

Quote:
But Assad still has a lot of legitimacy within Syria, with more than 50 percent of the population's support, political analyst Roula Taly told RT.."

It sounds like what Syrians want is in direct conflict with what the Gladio Gang desires. How could this be? I'd bet herr Harper is green with envy and wishing he was as popular in Syria and, hell, in Canada for that matter.

Toys for the "Peaceful" Syrian Opposition: Modern weapons confirm Western support for FSA Terrorists photographic evidence

Fri, 2012-06-22 19:27

#45

6079_Smith_W

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/22/turkey-jet-crashes-syria-con...

Fri, 2012-06-22 19:50

#46

NDPP

US Policy Takes Over By Radicals Affiliated with Zionists (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/22/247440/radical-zionism-has-seize...

"...So again, it's not in the interests of the American people to be doing this, but it is in the interests of the radical Likud Zionists and the Military Industrial complex and unfortunately they have seized power in the USA.." Discussion with experts

Fri, 2012-06-22 20:59

#47

NDPP

Syria Downed Turkish Fighter Jet Over its Territorial Waters

http://www.rt.com/news/turkish-plane-erdogan-statement-543/

"The Syrian military has confirmed that it downed a Turkish military jet over its territorial waters. There have been conflicting reports on the fate of the plane's pilots. RT's Marina Finoshima reports that Syrian sources indicated that they had captured, while Turkish media reported that they had been rescued. The jet was unlikely to be carrying out a simple reconnaissance mission, but was probably a provocative probe to test the Syrian security initiative and ability to protect its borders, believes author and academic Colin s Cavell. Being a NATO member, Turkey can count on the alliance support if it comes under attack..

'The F-4 Phantom, is utilized and supplied by the US to Turkey, and of course the United States and Turkey can claim that Syria has attacked it,' Cavell told RT. 'Of course that would be the ruse they will utilize if they wanted NATO to further intervene.."

Erdogan Leaves Syrian Apology for Shooting Down Turkish Jet Unconfirmed

http://www.rt.com/news/turkey-contact-aircraft-sea-498/

"...The plane crashed into or near Syrian territorial waters earlier today, according to reports. A missile fired by the Syrian defense system shattered into into pieces after which the jet plunged into teh Mediterranean Sea. Syrian vessels have joined a search operation which was launched immediately after the Turkish military lost radar and radio contacts with the craft.

International Relations expert mark Almond, says in the event of a NATO intervention scenario, Turkey might launch a probing flight to assess Syria's capabilities. 'If the NATO countries were really thinking of some kind of intervention to assist the rebels against Assad's regime, the first thing they'll want to do is knock out Syria's air forces and defence systems. So some kind of a probing flight testing Syria's responses would be possible.."

Fri, 2012-06-22 21:09

#48

Fidel

Will it be another Gulf de Tonkin false flag? Team Gladio dreams of war. It's what they do.

Sat, 2012-06-23 01:57

#49

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Wow... an F-4 Phantom II... on oldie but still, with modifications, a goodie; it's the flower of mid 1960s US fighter technology. It's still in use and the Turkish Air Force uses three versions, two models are configured for attack missions (bombing) which been recently used to bomb Kurdish rebels in Iraq and one model or type for reconnaissance (scouting). I'm willing to bet it was the reconnaissance version, the RF F4E Phantom 2, (not that any reporters form news sources posted here would get the exact model right). I'll let you folks here do all the speculating as to what it was up to when it got shot down.

Turkey does have much more modern aircraft in its air force including 240 F-16s which they built under license from the USA. It would be practical to use an older aircraft if they were just "probing" Syria's air defenses, not that a drone wouldn't have been even better.

I hope the crew survived and I really want this to be a screw-up of some kind, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Everyone have a great weekend. I'm going out to enjoy the 103 degree weather we're going to have this weekend.

Sat, 2012-06-23 03:00

#50

NDPP

Have a good one Bec. And easy on the Soju!

Rebels Use 'Brutal Tactics' Against Syria Army

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/06/23/247534/rebels-brutal-tactics-syr...

"A new report has revealed that the armed groups fighting against the government of Syrian President Bashar al Assad are using brutal tactics to attack the Army forces in the crisis-hit country. Three Associated Press reporters who spend two weeks with the rebels in northern Syria, found that the anti-government militants turn their prisoners into unwitting bombers, arming the vehicles carrying the inmates with bombs and detonating the explosives at Army checkpoints.."

Syrian Government Ready to Withdraw Together With Opposition

http://www.rt.com/news/lavrov-syrian-government-forces-withdrawal-494

"Syrian forces are ready to withdraw their forces if this happens simultaneously with the withdrawal of the opposition, said Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov citing his Syrian counterpart Walid Muallem. 'Government forces and the armed opposition have to simultaneously withdraw from the cities under the control of international observers. The Syrian government is ready for that', Lavrov told the press after meeting the Syrian Foreign Minister.."

Sat, 2012-06-23 13:31

#51

Fidel

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31537][size=14]CONFIRMED: US CIA Arming Terrorists in Syria[/size][/url]

Quote:
As West berates Syria for "killing civilians" Western weapons flow into terrorist hands from NATO.

The New York Times in their article, "C.I.A. Said to Aid in Steering Arms to Syrian Opposition," confirms what many have already long known - that the West, led by the US and its Gulf State proxies, have been arming terrorists, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood, while berating the Syrian government for "violating" a UN mandated ceasefire and for "failing to protect" its population.

The Muslim Brotherhood has been combated by nations across the Arab World to stem the tide of their sectarian extremism, violence, and their targeted erosion of secular nation-states. Ironically, the US which has claimed to have been fighting the forces of sectarian extremism and "terrorism" for over a decade now, have been revealed as the primary enabler of the most violent and extreme terrorist organizations in the world. These include, in addition to the Muslim Brotherhood, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) in Libya, Baluch terrorists in Pakistan, and the Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK) currently based in Iraq and being used as proxies against Iran.

USA the lead Gladio nation and prime enabler of right wing extremism around the world.

The USA and its clandestine services have been arming enemies of the people for a long time.

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886726/ns/meet_the_press/t/transcript-jan/#.T-X7RRee4wE">Sen. John Kerry, Meet the Press Invterview, 2005</a> wrote:
"We delivered weapons to the Khmer Rouge on the coastline of Cambodia."

Presidential candidate John Kerry on arming Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, the biggest mass murderers since Adolf Hitler. It's what they do.

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