TODAY 3pm EST/12pm PST Babble Book Club: Beauty Plus Pity by Kevin Chong

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Mon, 2012-05-14 15:13

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Hey all,

as already mentioned, we are reading Kevin Chong's Beauty Plus Pity as our next book club selection.

Exciting news (maybe predictable too?) Kevin has agreed to join us for a conversation about his book sometime in June, but being that he is such a great talent, his schedule is busy and a tad, 'up in the air'. Kevin is working on confirming a discussion date with us, but has to confirm some other previous engagements first, but he will join us!

Tentatively, the discussion will be sometime around early to mid June (we were thinking a Sunday again), just to give everyone a ballpark for the discussion and also enough time to find and read the book. To those lucky winners of the giveaway (now over sorry) you don't have to worry about finding it, to others, I've heard library copies are going fast! Let me know if this discussion date window (?) works. Anecdote: My mom says the library in Port Moody, BC won't have it back until early June!

If you're one of those people who love buying books, try your local bookstore, especially Canadian centric ones (Octopus Books in Ottawa! People's Co-op in Van City!) or order it directly from the Arsenal Pulp Press website! The folks down at Arsenal are rad and will mail your purchased copy right away (also check out their other stuff too -- great publishers).

Okay so let's all get to reading! Some of our lovely book club members have already finished and have been leaving comments on our selection thread.

Cassia says:

"Started the book last night. They say all writing is autobiographical but reading can be autobiographical as well. The first couple of chapters have me contemplating my relationship with both my father and my 15 year old son."

and

"I enjoyed the book, finishing it Saturday evening. Some interesting relationships in the book and many symmetries throughout: birth, death, father/son relationships, birth choices."

Also, be sure to check out the Babble Book Club Facebook group for additional comments, links and fun!

Issues Pages:

Arts & Culture

Regions:

Tue, 2012-05-15 09:08

Caissa

I was fortunate enough to win a copy and shall be giving it away as a birthday gift thgis summer. I finished reading the book on Saturday evening. Excellent study of familial and other relationships. Many situations find their echo in succeeding generations. An excellent read. Can Lit has come a long way since I took a Can Lit course in high school back in 1980-1.

Wed, 2012-05-16 13:47

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

yay for winning!

Your comment about a Can Lit course in high school gave way to another thought that has been on my mind lately about high-school required reading and Can Lit, mainly that those two aren't synonymous.

But, I'm cracking the cover today (in the park, with sun, in VANCOUVER) and looking forward to not only the read, but also the feelings of familiarity and connectedness I get when I read Vancouver writers and books based in Vancouver. I like the mention of street names or scenery, restuarants or events -- it's really satisfying in a strange way. It's not that I am a giant Vancouver fan (or even from here for that matter) I think it mainly has to do with the fact the Canada still seems so small (underdog status?) and reading about a place you are currently living and dealing with the same situations is fascinating.

I had the similar feelings, more a nostalgia, when I watch the movie One Week, with Joshua Jackson motorcycling through the small towns of Canada. The movie was okay.

Wed, 2012-05-16 15:31

Catchfire

Here is Kevin Chong on Strombo giving horseracing tips. In part to promote his new non-fiction book, The Year of the Racehorse:

Sun, 2012-05-20 18:46

infracaninophile $infracaninophile's picture$

I finished it yesterday. It's well written -- and more engaging than I expected. In contrast to Farzana Doctor's book, it seems much less anchored in place, but the characters and their relationships were vividly drawn. I gathered it was supposed to be funny, or at least witty, but I didn't pick up much of that -- is it full of in-jokes that require you to be a Vancouverite or especially media-savvy? I found some lines to be wryly witty, but would not have characterized the book as a whole as laced with humour (while I did think Come Thou Tortoise -- I'll keep lobbying for that one -- is permeated by wit and humour, so I'm not unaware of wit most of the time).

I'll be interested to hear what other babblers make of it.

Tue, 2012-05-22 19:57

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Glad to see those who have already finished the book are enjoying it, those who are a few pages in can't put it down and others are excited to start reading!

With that anticipation or satisfaction comes some more exciting news (well not new news, but confirmation more so!) that Kevin Chong will indeed be joining the Babble Book Club for a discussion of Beauty Plus Pity Sunday June 24 3 p.m. EST/ 12 p.m. PST!

We're a lucky group, as he is a busy man these days and was able to fit in the BBC between returning from South America and packing up to move, so let's all show Kevin some love on Sunday June 24!

Lots of time to getting reading, finish up, reread or scour the internet for interesting nuggets!

Wed, 2012-06-06 14:22

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Our discussion with Kevin Chong is getting slightly closer!

Here is an interesting interview Kevin did with Scout Magazine, a Vancouver foodie online magazine that also posts about cool things and cool people. It is a nice view into his Vancouver world and potential inspirations for the book. He also chats about his exact inspirations for Beauty Plus Pity, which might help conjure up any questions, or answers, some people were wondering. Granted, we can always ask him in a few weeks!

Also there are these gems

"What trend have you followed that you regret now? People were getting undercuts while I was in high school."

Ah yes Kevin, the undercut indeed was a huge misstep for the 90s fashion world.

Wed, 2012-06-06 14:50

MegB

I really enjoyed this latest book from him. SO looking forward to the babble discussion!

Tue, 2012-06-19 08:29

Catchfire

I hope to make the discussion tomorrow, but I may be on the road. Regarding Beauty Plus Pity, I was interested in the way Kevin manipulates time for his protagonist, who jumps quite sharply and quickly around his memories, from what happened the day before to what happened years ago (which I suppose is quite closely connected to the process of mourning). I wonder how and why he developed the technique he used.

I'm also interested in the jump between being a fiction writer to a non-fiction writer -- especially in such eclectic (and slightly hipster-ish!) topics as Neil Young and horseracing, neither of which, to my knowledge appear in his fiction. I'd like to hear Kevin talk about that.

ETA. Just realized the meet-up is Sunday! Whoops! I think I'll be there!

Tue, 2012-06-19 08:30

#10

Caissa

The discussion is on the 24th.

Tue, 2012-06-19 08:32

#11

Catchfire

Thanks Caissa, I just realized that!

Tue, 2012-06-19 16:55

#12

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I was wondering why there were so many messages on this forum all of a sudden! I hope you get your messaging system all settled.

Catchfire, I'll write those questions down and get them ready in case you are unable to join us on Sunday -- they sound really interesting. Drop any others you may have in here and I'll be sure to through them out there in rapid-fire succession.

Tue, 2012-06-19 20:32

#13

Catchfire

I removed the off-topic jibber jabber from Caissa and I. Sorry to get your hopes up, Kaitlin, that a robust and scintillating discussion was underway! Still, loads of people seem up for this book. Looking forward to Sunday!

Wed, 2012-06-20 15:33

#14

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

haha thanks Catchfire -- and sadly yes, my heart was all excited by the 10 new comments. Ah well, just leaves more room for Sunday!

Just spoke to Mr. Kevin Chong and he is all ready to go for Sunday! Exciting!

Wed, 2012-06-20 16:39

#15

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Oh yes, and speaking of hipster culture, I would like to know why Kevin chose to leave Malcolm relatively the same concerning his self-awareness, or lack thereof. Malcolm seems a bit deluded, much like a lot of the Vancouver 20s population, and unaware of his actual identity. I wonder if it could be a bit of the middle finger to the annoying van city hipsters?

Thu, 2012-06-21 07:05

#16

Caissa

It's been awhile since I read the book but I thought the protagonist grew over time.

Thu, 2012-06-21 14:20

#17

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I feel like he just saw what he wanted through the eyes of the other characters -- mainly Hadley. He never reflected upon himself or his actions or choices, and sort of used others as representations as himself.

I think from my understanding of the book, it is a very Vancouver style of thinking, especially within the aforementioned hipster culture in their 20-30s. There is no accountability or self-awareness and attitudes reek of entitlement -- probably why Vancouver drives me nuts! People walk down the middle of the sidewalk, enter the train before others exit, talk on their cellphones in the library. They are also extremely judgemental and superficial, and I think he captured that within the character (in a way that doesn't make you totally hate him) and also within the writing style of the whole book too!

I'm interested to hear his thoughts on his writing style because this book differs quite a bit from his other writing. He seemed to almost over-write in some places the same way Van City hipsters do. I wonder if it was intentional?

Thu, 2012-06-21 14:23

#18

Papal Bull

"There is no accountability or self-awareness and attitudes reek of entitlement -- probably why Vancouver drives me nuts! People walk down the middle of the sidewalk, enter the train before others exit, talk on their cellphones in the library. "

But that also sounds like: Sudbury, Toronto, Ottawa, London, Kingston, etc. (I haven't left Ontario for a good long time).

Thu, 2012-06-21 14:26

#19

Caissa

Other than cellphones in libraries, it definitely does not sound like NB.

Thu, 2012-06-21 14:48

#20

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Hipsters are taking over the world! Ah!

I feel like it is at such a higher volume here and the city is about half the size of any other major city (maybe excluding the lovely maritime provinces). Also, what is extra annoying, is given that there are so many awful things in Vancouver -- huge homeless populations, rampant drug use, mass gentrification, crumbling infrastrucutre -- these things remain the same because the majority justify them with "but the mountains and ocean are so pretty."

Okay, I've got major problems with Van City (as clearly documented throughout my time at rabble), so I'll just stop.

I wonder if Kevin feels somewhat similar because even though the book is set in Van City, it does not rely on the common exploits of the mountains and the trees, and appears more so as just a city. Hmm..

[also, with Toronto, I feel like people at least know how to get off and on public transit and are more business-like in things like staying on the right side of the street. In regards to London, my hometown, it is the worst for so many other reasons :)]

Fri, 2012-06-22 14:49

#21

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I think I posted this in the Facebook group, but I really liked this interview the Montreal Gazette did with Kevin Chong. It discusses some of the things we have been chatting about, and brings up some interesting questions, mainly the one about Nabakov.

Excited for Sunday!

Sun, 2012-06-24 13:44

#22

derrick

I often start a novel and never finish it, getting sidetracked by non-fiction reading (and editing work!)... But I read this novel of Kevin's in one weekend. Part of what made Beauty Plus Pity such an enjoyable read for me was its hyper-locality. It's such a rare treat to read a book set in Vancouver, and not only that but set in a particular neighbourhood around Main Street, which I recognized easily, having spent far too much of my twenties in the old Grind Coffee shop near Main & King Edward...

Sun, 2012-06-24 14:50

#23

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Discussion with Kevin Chong will start in 10 minutes!

Sun, 2012-06-24 14:59

#24

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Hi everyone thanks for joining the discussion! Special hello to Kevin Chong, and thank you for chatting with us during your break from moving!

To get things rolling:

You mentioned in a previous interview with Scout Magazine, you were trying to explore the nature of beauty and family through writing this book. Do you feel that this book was successful in achieving a greater understanding of those qualities, or that that understanding comes with age and experience?

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:03

#25

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

minor technical difficultly -- just searching for some passwords!

Kevin says hello from internet land and will be here in a moment!

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:06

#26

KevinChong1975

OK, had to reregister again. Anyhow, to answer the first question, I'm not sure I was successful... I'll let readers decide. But I do think the character Malcolm develops a better sense of beauty and family in the book.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:07

#27

KevinChong1975

I was trying to play around with the concept of beauty. Is it something we know intuitively or something we gain through experience (i.e. connoisseurship). Hence, we have Malcolm as both this wannabe male model and a record snob.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:10

#28

KevinChong1975

I was attempting to parallel this nature vs. nurture question to Malcolm and his half-sister, Hadley, who develop their relationships as adults (or near-adult, in Hadley's case). They want to know whether they have any bond beyond shared genes, or whether that bond can only exist from shared experience.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:13

#29

derrick

I'm most interested in the way in this novel the turmoil and change in the protagonist's romantic relationships seem almost insignificant compared to the relationship he's working through with his (now deceased) father... The contrast is driven home with an early exclamation point as he reads a break-up letter from his girlfriend, having mistaken it for the text of his eulogy for his father...

The friendship with his half-sister is the high water mark of his emotional life, for example, even though she's really still just a kid.

I'm wondering how intentional this was - to emphasize the primacy of family relationships, or was it more along the lines of just portraying some of the randomness of a twenty-something's love life?

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:13

#30

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Like an intuition based on sort of a family interconnectedness? Even though they don't know each other, they have certain similarites because they are related?

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:18

#31

KevinChong1975

Derrick: I think that was my desire to pile on calalmity, but also it underscores how wrong that relationship was with his fiance, Claire. She is in many ways this crutch for him. He should have been a partner to her, but he behaved more like a child who needed a parent.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:19

#32

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Great question Derrick.

It also makes me wonder about the role that identities, or self-identities and self awareness play. Malcolm considers himself an artist, largely based on his father possibly, but he hasn't really done much beyond the attempted modelling career to achieve this identity.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:19

#33

KevinChong1975

Yeah, they wanted that intuitive understanding of each other, but they don't get that at first. It's only after they spend time together that they have those sparks of connection.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:21

#34

KevinChong1975

He's trying to shape his identity according to his parents' desire for him to be this artistic soul (and redeem their failures) but also strike out on his own in a way that makes them pay attention to him.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:23

#35

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Do you think Malcolm's vanity limits him and his potential development (re: not acting like a child and more like a partner)? He can seem stagnant and at times oblivious to reality and himself.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:23

#36

alex

Hi Kevin!

Welcome to babble's book club :)

I found the relationship between Malcolm and his parents' a fascinating one...I was intrigued by their desire for their son to explore his artistic side and then his decision to become a model....

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:24

#37

alex

I also really liked the wry humour in the book...I was curious about the unique choice of Malcolm's career as a male model - how did you go about researching this? I don't think I've read another Canlit featuring a male model protagonist and one who's Chinese too!

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:24

#38

KevinChong1975

Yeah, I think so. He can be very observant about others but lacking self-awareness.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:25

#39

derrick

That makes sense, Kevin. It's not that the romantic relationships are irrelevant, but that his thinking about them seems obscured or muddled because he's working through the issues about his father. It's a great hook into the story - the scene of him up there scanning her break-up letter and then composing himself to speak is dramatic and memorable...

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:27

#40

MegB

I know this is a typical, and fairly banal question, but how much of you went into the protagonist? For me he was not always a likeable character, but definitely a loveable one. His flaws seem also to be his strengths, and you seem to have a talent for building a complex character that is both unlikeable but very ... redeemable.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:30

#41

KevinChong1975

Thanks, Derrick. Rebecca, I think quite a bit of my sensibility (and much of the self-absorption) went into him but not much of my actual biography. The parents are from Hong Kong, as are mine. And I'm glad you find him loveable... I can understand when some people don't!

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:33

#42

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

This question comes from you pal @Catchfire who was unable to make it today because he is in the skies! He would love to know:

How did you manipulate time for the protagonist? He jumps sharply and quickly around his memories, from what happened the day before to what happened years ago. How and why did you develop this techinique?

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:36

#43

MegB

KevinChong1975 wrote:

Thanks, Derrick. Rebecca, I think quite a bit of my sensibility (and much of the self-absorption) went into him but not much of my actual biography. The parents are from Hong Kong, as are mine. And I'm glad you find him loveable... I can understand when some people don't!

Being a self-absorbed writer is pretty much a qualification for the job. You're among the few who admit it ... very cool.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:38

#44

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Haha Rebecca.

An english teacher once told me all writers have to have a bit of an ego in the first place, in order to even think people would want to read your writing or start writing in the first place.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:39

#45

KevinChong1975

Kaitlin, I tried to tie flashbacks (which can tell you about the character's back stories) thematically to stuff happening in the present-day timeline. So scene about Malcolm's shittiness with relationships in the present day will be connected to a flashback that might help explain that. It might clearer to me, the writer, than to the reader... for better and for worse.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:41

#46

KevinChong1975

Yeah, I think some writers are able to transcend their self-absorption a bit more about writing about grand casts of characters over vast social landscapes. I've always been drawn to writers who reflect the world through their only self-obsessions and tics.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:44

#47

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

Speaking of which, Catchfire again, was wondering how was/is the jump between being a fiction writer and a non-ficition writer, especially in such eclectiv topics as Neil Young and horse-racing, neither of which appear in your ficition?

note: Catchfire decribed this topics as "hipster-y"

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:46

#48

MegB

KevinChong1975 wrote:

Yeah, I think some writers are able to transcend their self-absorption a bit more about writing about grand casts of characters over vast social landscapes. I've always been drawn to writers who reflect the world through their only self-obsessions and tics.

I'm not sure there's any other way to write. We observe, we navel-gaze, we write, but tend not to be movers and shakers. Hemingway aside ... but he was an asshole by any measure of the word.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:48

#49

Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

I also put Updike in that 'really talented asshole' writer category.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:49

#50

MegB

@ Kaitlin ... lol ... agreed!

ETA: I'd like to think that I'm not enough of an asshole to be a great writer, but the fact is I could be the most accomplished asshole in the world and still be average. Not that I'm not the most accomplished asshole ...

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:52

#51

KevinChong1975

Hipster-y wouldn't be completely incorrect. It depends on how you treat those subjects. Most people don't self-identify as hipsters, but I definitely growing up tried to like things that were cool. I'm like that, though maybe not as preoccupied with that. On one hand, it's poseurish, but on other hand there are many young people who are choosing to define themselves by their refined tastes instead of their bank balance or the rims on their cars... so I don't think it's all that bad.