Mulcair withdraws NDP criticism of Harper's severing ties with Iran

Wed, 2012-09-19 16:43

socialdemocrati...

Brachina wrote:
This thread has jumped the shark a couple of times over.

The shark has defered to NATO lies and become indistinguishable from Harper, or something like that.

Quote:
So what "information" is Mulcair waiting for, and why should he not be challenged firmly on that point?

That's a good question. But it's a very different question asking "Is there any difference between Harper and Mulcair on Iran?" It's very different from accusing the NDP of "sabre-rattling", or "toeing the neo-con line", or "defering to NATO lies", or "convergence with with the actions of the Steven Harper government" (btw, that was a misstatement of constitutional law that makes said commenter unfit for office). I'm not sure what the answer is to your question (other than acknowledging that strategists often wait to see where their opponents are vulnerable before launching an attack), but at least your question is a reasonable one. For that, I've been calling my MP and Thomas Mulcair's office. Still no response. I'm not ready to draw the inference that the NDP supports imperialism. But I do share your worry that they're insufficiently motivated to prevent imperialism.

Wed, 2012-09-19 18:53

#103

kropotkin1951

To try to bring this back to the thread, Mulcair backtracked from one of the best statements the party has made on foreign policy in quite some time. WTF is with that anyways.

Mulcair is a lawyer and a sophisticated politician. As in tort law I like to apply the rule that you are held to a professional standard as a professional and not to the standard of Joe Public especially when dealing with subject matter that could have major repercussions for many Iranian citizens. Its because I respect Mulcairs's credentials that I expect him to do a lot better than that. Or maybe the people putting together his briefing notes are not up to the job if this is an area that he does not have any background in. If he is just going to follow the MSM buzz on issues then the discourse will never have a chance of getting to peace because the debate will be stuck in vilifying demons just like Baird and Harper like do do.

Wed, 2012-09-19 21:49

#104

mark_alfred

The Globe and Mail seems to be warming to Mulcair, writing that "He’s viscerally more pro-Israel, but NDP policy remains a middle-ground compromise. He seems to have conservative instincts, overriding party critics and offering lukewarm support for the Harper government’s decision to cut ties with Iran. ...Real tests are looming, though." -- those tests being how the NDP will respond to upcoming government trade deal proposals with the EU and China.

Wed, 2012-09-19 23:26

#105

Aristotleded24

mark_alfred wrote:
The Globe and Mail seems to be warming to Mulcair, writing that "He’s viscerally more pro-Israel, but NDP policy remains a middle-ground compromise. He seems to have conservative instincts, overriding party critics and offering lukewarm support for the Harper government’s decision to cut ties with Iran. ...Real tests are looming, though." -- those tests being how the NDP will respond to upcoming government trade deal proposals with the EU and China.

That article sounds poorly written to me. For one, it's riddled with ridiculous talking points. I think there are a bunch of assumptions as well, for example the insistence on reviewing trade agreements before they are signed or even commenting. And even if Mulcair was a centrist, there are far to many elements within the party that would speak up were Mulcair to go as far as the Globe and Mail is suggesting he will.

Thu, 2012-09-20 05:10

#106

Slumberjack

Well, this representative sampling of how thought is processed within the party has got me convinced. But I went in like that.

Sat, 2012-09-22 03:11

#107

NDPP

Canadian Political Left Disappearing: NDP Slides to the Right - by Yves Engler

http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/09/canadian-political-left-disappearing/

"That another pro-Israel US group has chosen to honour Harper for being 'a champion of democracy, freedom and human rights,' should come as little surprise. But the lack of critical Canadian response is much more disheartening..."

Sat, 2012-09-22 18:11

#108

autoworker autoworker's picture

NDPP wrote:

Canadian Political Left Disappearing: NDP Slides to the Right - by Yves Engler

http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/09/canadian-political-left-disappearing/

"That another pro-Israel US group has chosen to honour Harper for being 'a champion of democracy, freedom and human rights,' should come as little surprise. But the lack of critical Canadian response is much more disheartening..."

...still waiting for a principled response from Canada's OO Leader...

Sat, 2012-09-22 20:21

#109

quizzical

still waiting for Canadians to grab a clue. what does "principled" even mean?

Sat, 2012-09-22 21:05

#110

autoworker autoworker's picture

quizzical wrote:

still waiting for Canadians to grab a clue. what does "principled" even mean?

To my mind, it conjures shades of reason and restraint, as opposed to whimsy and autocracy. It might also mean not contradicting one's subordinates, who were chosen, by the leader, to reflect that principle. The question remains: What is Mulcair's position? We still don't know whether it aligns with Harper's decision. Has he been sworn to secrecy, or is that also a secret?

Sun, 2012-09-23 08:04

#111

Slumberjack

autoworker wrote:
The question remains: What is Mulcair's position? We still don't know whether it aligns with Harper's decision.

Actually, the question doesn't remain.

Sun, 2012-09-23 09:50

#112

autoworker autoworker's picture

Slumberjack wrote:

autoworker wrote:
The question remains: What is Mulcair's position? We still don't know whether it aligns with Harper's decision.

Actually, the question doesn't remain.

So, what is the question's disposition?

Sun, 2012-09-23 22:50

#113

NDPP

Canada Displays Double Standards in its Middle East Policy (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/09/21/262856/canadadisplaysdoublestan...

So why nothing said by the No Difference Party of Canada's 'Nuclear Cooperation Agreement' with the UAE?

Mon, 2012-09-24 00:40

#114

autoworker autoworker's picture

Let's try asking a different question: Would a Mulcair government re-establish diplomatic relations with Iran?

Mon, 2012-09-24 01:06

#115

Boom Boom

Mulcair is at least three years away from possibly forming government, so the question is meaningless isn't it? Rather, I'd ask that Mulcair push for Harper to re-open the consulate in Iran.

Mon, 2012-09-24 01:57

#116

autoworker autoworker's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Mulcair is at least three years away from possibly forming government, so the question is meaningless isn't it? Rather, I'd ask that Mulcair push for Harper to re-open the consulate in Iran.

If the NDP seriously regards itself as the 'government in waiting', then the question is valid. It's only meaningless to those who attempt to evade it.

Mon, 2012-09-24 11:13

#117

mark_alfred

autoworker wrote:
Boom Boom wrote:

Mulcair is at least three years away from possibly forming government, so the question is meaningless isn't it? Rather, I'd ask that Mulcair push for Harper to re-open the consulate in Iran.

If the NDP seriously regards itself as the 'government in waiting', then the question is valid. It's only meaningless to those who attempt to evade it.

I went through the Hansard and found that none of the opposition parties (NDP, Liberals, or the Green member) raised a question in the House about the closing of the embassy.

Mon, 2012-09-24 11:35

#118

Slumberjack

They haven't said anything of substance of the matter in opposition, where one would think they'd be on the lookout for any and all opportunities to squawk about something. What makes anyone believe there would be a reversal of this decision if the liberals or ndp were the government? The usual nauseating display of partisan faith and loyalty just doesn’t cut it as evidence.

Mon, 2012-09-24 11:37

#119

NDPP

Photo Tells Us Why Canada Severed Diplomatic Ties with Iran

http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2012/09/11/photo-tells-us-why-ca...

and why there is no opposition to it...

Mon, 2012-09-24 11:44

#120

kropotkin1951

NDPP wrote:

Photo Tells Us Why Canada Severed Diplomatic Ties with Iran

http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2012/09/11/photo-tells-us-why-ca...

and why there is no opposition to it...

Mon, 2012-09-24 11:48

#121

autoworker autoworker's picture

mark_alfred wrote:

autoworker wrote:
Boom Boom wrote:

Mulcair is at least three years away from possibly forming government, so the question is meaningless isn't it? Rather, I'd ask that Mulcair push for Harper to re-open the consulate in Iran.

If the NDP seriously regards itself as the 'government in waiting', then the question is valid. It's only meaningless to those who attempt to evade it.

I went through the Hansard and found that none of the opposition parties (NDP, Liberals, or the Green member) raised a question in the House about the closing of the embassy.

Thanks for looking that up. That fact, in itself, speaks volumes.

Mon, 2012-09-24 12:31

#122

Slumberjack

autoworker wrote:
That fact, in itself, speaks volumes.

Speaks volumes about what? That the government and opposition alike are in possession of information detailing some heinous Iranian scheme that was in the process of being carried out in Canada and against Canadian interests, or that all of our political parties are nothing more than crass opportunists who have placed themselves and the country in the service of a foreign government? Which is the most likely circumstance?

Mon, 2012-09-24 13:13

#123

NDPP

possibly both...

Terrance Nelson's Courtship With the Islamic Republic

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sadeq-rahim/terry-nelson-iran_b_1900389.html

"While many details have been rummaged through by analysts trying to explain the Canadian government's recent surprise announcement of breaking diplomatic ties with Iran, one important story has not receieved the attention it deserves...What Nelson is attempting can have serious publicity and security implications for the Canadian government, both at home and internationally..."

Terrance Nelson: Iran, Oil and the US Bloody Legacy

http://www.bsnorrell.blogspot.ca/2012/09/terrance-nelson-iran-oil-and-us...

Mon, 2012-09-24 13:45

#124

autoworker autoworker's picture

Slumberjack wrote:

autoworker wrote:
That fact, in itself, speaks volumes.

Speaks volumes about what? That the government and opposition alike are in possession of information detailing some heinous Iranian scheme that was in the process of being carried out in Canada and against Canadian interests, or that all of our political parties are nothing more than crass opportunists who have placed themselves and the country in the service of a foreign government? Which is the most likely circumstance?

I believe it says that our collective opposition is wary of standing against the gathering populist sentiment against Iran. In other words: I think they fear the political blowback from pissing against the prevailing wind.

Mon, 2012-09-24 15:08

#125

Slumberjack

There's no gathering populist sentiment in this country against Iran that I'm aware of, unless we're talking about business interests, the media in particular, in which case, its been long considered quite reasonable in those circiles that anyone can and damn well should be bombed for bucks. Even in the States polls are consistently showing an overwhelming preference for diplomacy where Iran is concerned. Of course, for diplomacy to factor into things, one requires the actual presence of diplomats on the job.

Mon, 2012-09-24 16:37

#126

autoworker autoworker's picture

Slumberjack wrote:

There's no gathering populist sentiment in this country against Iran that I'm aware of, unless we're talking about business interests, the media in particular, in which case, its been long considered quite reasonable in those circiles that anyone can and damn well should be bombed for bucks. Even in the States polls are consistently showing an overwhelming preference for diplomacy where Iran is concerned. Of course, for diplomacy to factor into things, one requires the actual presence of diplomats on the job.

I agree that it's important to keep diplomatic channels open. The opposition knows this, which is why their silence is disturbing. I also ageee that the msm, and their underwriters, have done their part in presenting Iran as threat and, almost inevitably, a military target. While there isn't a groundswell of populist rage that matches the reactions to perceived, Western provocations in the ME, i think there is an expectation that the outcome will be different this time. My concern is that there will no longer be space for popular discussion, once the endgame begins.

Sun, 2012-09-30 11:16

#127

Unionist

Looks like once you leave caucus, you're free to do the right thing. Not before.

[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/canadianboattogaza/2012/09/jim-manly-for... NDP MP sails against Gaza blockade next month[/url]

Mon, 2012-10-01 00:25

#128

socialdemocrati...

So I heard back from my MP's office.

The assistant I spoke to basically said that Paul Dewar's statement is still the official policy statement of the NDP. And as a general rule, the critic in their role is supposed to represent the party's position on that set of issues. That's a combination of expertise, and having consulted with a number of other people to assemble an appropriate response.

So I asked ... if that's the case, then what's the meaning of the Leader of the Official Opposition?

He said that was a good question, and unfortunately he could not find a good answer. (At least he was candid enough to say so.) He only said that it wasn't Mr. Mulcair's role to play, and that it doesn't override the official party position, which was described by Paul Dewar. He began to speculate a bit, but then said he really couldn't.

I asked if we could expect a follow up response, and the assistant said it was unlikely. There's nothing new on the issue since Dewar's statement.

Still no word from the Opposition Leader's office.

Tue, 2012-10-02 14:47

#129

autoworker autoworker's picture

...still waiting for Godot to take his place on the Privy Council...

Mulcair withdraws NDP criticism of Harper's severing ties with Iran

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