Israel launches airstrikes on Gaza again -- November 2012

Mon, 2012-11-19 00:27

Ken Burch

I make a clear distinction between the Hamas leadership and the people of Gaza. Nothing I said there blamed the people for anything in this.

Of course the Israeli attacks are unjustified...of course even the rockets don't justify them...but there's also no good reason to fire the rockets, and the rockets themselves are NOT a grassroots thing...that's something Hamas does by itself.

(on edit)

I went to that link, which had some good points...but then totally discredited itself when its author included THIS phrase:

"But it’s not so difficult to figure out when the Controller of BBC1 is Danny Cohen, a Jew. Such a surprise…."

Please, don't EVER quote from that blog or that person again on here. For shame.

Mon, 2012-11-19 01:20

#53

NDPP

Catchfire wrote:

I won't link to it, but the Jerusalem Post published an editorial by Gilad Sharon unequivocally calling for genocide in Gaza.

We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

.

I will, because a majority of Israelis, as with Cast Lead, if we can believe the polls done, were overwhelmingly in favour of such brutal solutions. That is why Bibi thinks he can be re-elected by repeating it. Here it is, an important and representative opinion consistent with Zionist ideology and practice for over half a century.

( This is what Peter MacKay has sworn Canada to defend and what Thomas Mulcair considers himself to be an 'ardent supporter of in all situations and circumstances'. Rather than wasting time railing against the failings of the Palestinian people's elected representatives of Hamas in Gaza, perhaps the time could be better spent tackling the urgent problem of growing Zionist impunity, power and influence here in Canada and the ideological continuum between this and Jewish diaspora leadership in our settler-state. Again I note that Israel's Military Attache in Canada, Brig-Gen Eden Attias, a 'credibly suspected''Cast Lead' 'warcriminal has yet to be investigated, criticized, protested or even mentioned in this regard, by any of the Diaspora media. Why not? )

A Decisive Conclusion is Necessary - by Gilad Sharon

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?ID=292466&R=R1

"...A strong opening isn't enough, you also have to know how to finish - and finish decisively. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won and just who was defeated.

The people of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren't hostages, they chose this freely and must live with the consequences..."

Mon, 2012-11-19 01:24

#54

Left Turn

[url=http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/444617/vancouver-protesters-decry-isr... protesters decry Israeli strikes against Gaza[/url]

Quote:
A few hundred people marched in protest of Israel’s military action in Gaza outside the Vancouver Art Gallery Sunday.

Chants of “Free, free Palestine” and “Occupation is a crime” rang out as the crowd carried Palestinian flags and signs reading “Stop siege on Gaza now!” around the Vancouver Art Gallery.

...

Quote:

But many organizations rallied to support Palestine, including Independent Jewish Voices and UBC’s Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights.

“It’s especially important for people to know Jewish people understand what’s going on and that they oppose what Israel’s doing – so many do,” said Rabbi David Mivasair of Independent Jewish Voices.

Mon, 2012-11-19 04:59

#55

NDPP

'IDF Must Learn From the Syrians How to Slaughter the Enemy' Says Prominent Israeli Rabbi

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/idf-must-learn-syrians-...

"...The Army has got to learn from the Syrians how to slaughter and crush the enemy,' - that is how Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, son of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, 'blessed' the IDF soldiers who may soon find themselves within the Gaza Strip. Israel's 'minister of home front defense' Avi Dichter called for Israel to 'reformat' Gaza - wipe it clean - like a computer hard drive, except using bombs..."

Mon, 2012-11-19 08:34

#56

Boom Boom

On CBC just now: "Israel will win the missile war, but Hamas will win the hearts and minds".

Mon, 2012-11-19 08:53

#57

Mr.Tea

Ken Burch wrote:

I went to that link, which had some good points...but then totally discredited itself when its author included THIS phrase:

"But it’s not so difficult to figure out when the Controller of BBC1 is Danny Cohen, a Jew. Such a surprise…."

Please, don't EVER quote from that blog or that person again on here. For shame.

He routinely posts links from worse, including blatant anti-semites like Gilad Atzmon and anti-Semitic conspiracy nuts like Lyndon Larouche. Makes one wonder why he's spending so much time on these sites if he's not a Jew-hater himself. And why a "progressive" website routinely tolerates linking to and quoting from hate sites.

Mon, 2012-11-19 09:17

#58

Slumberjack

Well thank heavens there is an equal tolerance for Mr. Tea to come in and balance things out in that regard. Tell us Mr. Tea, what exactly do you have against innocent civilians in Gaza who find themselves once again under merciless bombardment by the Israeli aggressor that prevents you from speaking out on their behalf?

Mon, 2012-11-19 09:21

#59

Mr.Tea

Slumberjack wrote:

Well thank heavens there is an equal tolerance for Mr. Tea to come in and balance things out in that regard. Tell us Mr. Tea, what exactly do you have against innocent civilians in Gaza who find themselves once again under merciless bombardment by the Israeli aggressor that prevents you from speaking out on their behalf?

This is the first comment I've made in this thread or on this situation. It has nothing to do with the actual conflict but rather with the insistence on posting anti-Semitic material. I'm pretty sure we're all capable of discussing this conflict without resorting to doing so, so I don't know what your non-sequitur comment is even referring to

Mon, 2012-11-19 09:26

#60

josh

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too."

Lovely. That the Jerusalem Post chose to publish it is even more telling.

Mon, 2012-11-19 09:33

#61

Mr.Tea

Just spent a few minutes on that site and it's just chock full of hatred and conspiracy-mongering. Here's a typical quote from Alan Sabrosky, one if the featured writers: " "What we need to stand up and say is not only did Israel attack the USS Liberty, they did 9/11. They did it. I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at its headquarters, Marine Corps and I made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period."

Seriously, NDPP, why do you seem to spend so much time on anti-Semitic sites? And, seriously, moderators, why are these things being allowed to be posted here? Can we not have a reasonable discussion about anything to do with Israel without anti-Semitic invective being thrown into the mix?

Mon, 2012-11-19 10:07

#62

6079_Smith_W

... considering the real question that blog quote raises isn't to do with the situation in Gaza, but rather whether Jews can be trusted. Otherwise, why is it even mentioned?

Tea and Ken B. are right.

Mon, 2012-11-19 10:28

#63

kropotkin1951

Yes please moderators stop this posting of ant-Israel propaganda so we can all go back to discussing how women can be discriminated against because of the religion of someone else usually a man.

I hate hypocrites. Like Israeli leaders who constantly talk about the "Jewish state" and then vilify anyone who criticizes using the term "Jewish state" because we all know that "Jewish state" is an anti-Semitic phrase, except when used as a descriptor by a Jewish Israeli racist then it is a term of pride in the genocidal and racist state.

Mon, 2012-11-19 10:38

#64

Unionist

If it weren't for some of the stupid antisemitic conspiracy sites linked to by NDPP, Mr.Tea would have no opening for his pro-Zionist commentaries. Quite the alliance of opposites.

This is not to take away from the mass of useful material that NDPP posts here. But he really has to filter out the Jew-haters a little better. He knows he can count on us to point him in the right direction!

And thanks, josh, for pointing us all in the right direction. The real mass murderers are sitting in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, with their staunch allies in Washington, Ottawa, London, et al. The enemy is powerful, and we need to focus.

Mon, 2012-11-19 10:55

#65

6079_Smith_W

I don't like it when those I oppose use racist and discriminatory arguments, but I'm not all that surprised because it is usually part of their foundation.

I take it far more seriously when that shit worms its way into the fight for causes I support, because there is no reason for it, and no justification. I'm sure everyone else here feels the same way when they see it.

I think it is always prudent to take advice like this at face value, rather than as an attempt to undermine or attack. Even if it is the latter there might be some truth to it.

Mon, 2012-11-19 12:57

#66

NDPP

The link to the site was based on a short description and link to it elsewhere dealing specifically with the rockets into Israel issue. I didn't see the rest of the site as I should have and will try to be more careful. I don't hate Jews, just the Jewish State.

Israel Gives Hamas 36 Hour Ultimatum Before Starting Major Offensive

http://rt.com/news/israel-ultimatum-hamas-offensive-028/

"Israel has warned Hamas it will step up its offensive in the Gaza Strip in '36 hours if they do not cease rocket fire. Israel's Finance Minister told IDF Radio the time left before Israel escalates its attacks can be measured in 'hours not days'.

Israeli Missiles Hit Gaza Media Center for 2nd Time

http://rt.com/news/media-compound-gaza-strike-074/

"The International Federation of Journalists demanded a full inquiry by the United Nations to investigate 'deliberate attacks' by the Israeli military against media buildings in Gaza and to 'take action' against the country's government. The Middle East Foreign Press Association demanded an explanation as to why the IDF was targeting media buildings which is a violation of international law."

Mon, 2012-11-19 14:34

#67

Catchfire

Thanks for that explanation and retraction, NDPP.

Mon, 2012-11-19 14:49

#68

Ken Burch

Thanks, NDPP.

And, so no one is confused, I agree that Gilad Sharon's column is, indeed, worse than the site NDPP linked too. Both are on the spectrum of hate speech(and misleading hate speech in the case of the column that NDPP chose to link to, because Jewish people around the world have joined with all the other voices of conscience denouncing what Israel is doing to Gaza and that particular blogger seems to be unable to acknowledge this)but hate speech that incites to genocide(as Sharon's column does)is always worse.

Tue, 2012-11-20 04:11

#69

NDPP

Netanyahu's Gaza Quickie - by Rob Prince

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/19/netanyahus-gaza-quickie/

"...Palestinian mastery of medium range missiles - even a few of them - that can hit Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have changed the equation of the offensive."

Why Gaza Must Suffer Again - by Jonathan Cook

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/19/why-gaza-must-suffer-again/

"...The inciting cause of the latest confrontation between Israel and Hamas has little to do with the firing of rockets, whether by Hamas or the other Palestinian factions. In reality Israel engineered a confrontation to provide the pretext for a 'retaliatory' attack, just as it did four years earlier in Operation Cast Lead."

Tue, 2012-11-20 04:33

#70

NDPP

Breaking the 'Filibuster': Russia to Prepare UN Resolution on Gaza Crisis

http://rt.com/news/russia-un-gaza-conflict-111/

"Russia is ready to propose a full resolution aimed at stopping the violence between Israel and Gaza if the West continues to 'filibuster' the UN Security Council statement on the crisis..."

Bloodlust in Israel: 'Flatten Gaza, Send it back to Middle Ages, They need to Die!'

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/

"While anti-war voices exist, they are in a minority and much of the population is firmly behind it..."

Sounds like Canada

Tue, 2012-11-20 04:54

#71

NDPP

Israel Launched War on Gaza to Cover Up Occupation: Richard Falk (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/19/273273/gaza-war-cover-for-israe...

"UN Special Rapporteur Dr Richard Falk tells Press TV Israel is trying to direct attention from its illegal occupation of Palestinian lands."

Harper Government Defens Israel's Assault on Gaza (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/20/273430/harper-government-defend...

"...The terms of reference should be the 'Palestinian right to defence against 'Israeli aggression' and not vice versa.."

Tue, 2012-11-20 10:47

#72

epaulo13

Rafeef Ziadah - 'We teach life, sir'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKucPh9xHtM&feature=share

Tue, 2012-11-20 12:00

#73

Mr.Tea

CBC Radio is reporting that a ceasefire has been reached.

Tue, 2012-11-20 20:17

#74

Serviam6

It would be wonderful if both sides stopped instigating each other and just lived peacefully.

Tue, 2012-11-20 20:46

#75

epaulo13

'The Forgotten Palestinians' (video)

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-forgotten-palestinians-by-ilan-pappe

Celebrated Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe who wrote "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" that documented the 1948 removal of 700,000 Palestinians from their lands, has now written about "The Forgotten Palestinians"....

Wed, 2012-11-21 00:12

#76

kropotkin1951

Serviam6 wrote:

It would be wonderful if both sides stopped instigating each other and just lived peacefully.

There is no mutuality one side is the occupier and aggressor.

Wed, 2012-11-21 04:12

#77

NDPP

The Absolute Right of Palestinian Resistance - by Linda Brayer

http://counterpunch.org/2012/11/20/the-absolute-right-of-palestinian-res...

"...the response available to Palestinians in Gaza is extremely limited and is confined to rockets fired into Israel.."

Israel's Gaza Calculus - by Gregory Harms

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/20/israels-gaza-calculus/

"Like no other place on earth..."

Wed, 2012-11-21 04:42

#78

NDPP

Israel Metaphorically Defeated in Gaza - by Ismail Salami

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/20/273554/us-seeks-zionistfriendly...

"...When Israel found the situation too precarious to handle, they pleaded with their powerful lobby on Capitol Hill to help craft a Zionist-friendly truce."

World Has Put Up With Zionist Apartheid For Too Long - by Finian Cunningham

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/20/273477/world-has-put-up-with-is...

"...How can the world tolerate such barbarity? To hell with Israel. Through its relentless crimes, Israel has forfeited any right to exist. Those who want to live in peace should do so in the historic land of Palestine. A two-state solution is an affront to international norms and justice. The artificial illegal borders of Israel bequeathed by colonialists and expanded by colonizers should be henceforth rejected and, yes, wiped off the map."

Wed, 2012-11-21 05:27

#79

NDPP

Breaking: At Least 10 Injured in Bus Explosion in Central Tel Aviv

http://rt.com/news/explosion-bus-tel-aviv-231/

"At least 10 confirmed injured and 3 critical in an explosion on a bus in central Tel Aviv.."

Wed, 2012-11-21 08:22

#80

Mr.Tea

So much for a ceasefire. Things are about to get a whole lot worse

Wed, 2012-11-21 09:47

#81

NDPP

Exposed: UN Agency Rips IDF For Video Alleging Militants Use its Gaza Schools to Launch Rockets

http://rt.com/news/un-hamas-idf-video-166/

"A UN relief agency has shot down allegation levied by the IDF via an animated film posted on their official YouTube channel, saying Hamas used UN schools and facilities to fire rockets at Israel..."

Wed, 2012-11-21 10:33

#82

NDPP

'Canada...Stands By Israel'

http://www.canada.com/news/Canada%2Bstands%2BIsrael/7586144/story.html

"Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird reaffirmed Canada's support for Israel late Tuesday, pulling no punches in blaming Hamas for the latest conflict in the Middle East. 'True friends are measured by whether they are there for you when you need them most,' said Baird, who was the guest of honour at a major Jewish fund-raising dinner in Ottawa. 'Canada... stands by Israel's side.'

what 'honour'?

Wed, 2012-11-21 10:53

#83

NDPP

Elites Will Make Gazans Of Us All - by Chris Hedges

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/elites_will_make_gazans_of_us_all_20...

"Gaza is a window on our coming dystopia..."

Wed, 2012-11-21 11:21

#84

NDPP

Majority of Israelis Back Discrimination Against Arabs: Poll (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/Program/271573.html

"A new poll has revealed shocking widespread discriminatory views held by Israeli Jews toward the country's Arab citizens and majority support for apartheid polices toward occupied Palestine..."

Wed, 2012-11-21 12:31

#85

NDPP

Israel's 'Right to Self-Defense' - A Tremendous Propaganda Victory - by Amira Hass

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/israel-s-right-to-self-defense-a-tr...

"One of Israel's tremendous propaganda victories is that it has been accepted as a victim of the Palestinians...'

Wed, 2012-11-21 13:01

#86

Caissa

I have heard ceasefire to take effect 3 p.m. AST.

Wed, 2012-11-21 16:57

#87

Kara

NDPP wrote:

Thomas Mulcair: I am 'an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and circumstances'

Thanks to all those who supported this POS for leadership of the NDP, especially since his views were no mystery to anyone after his despicable attack on Libby Davies a few years ago. The NDP would suck just as much as the Liberals, Cons, etc. but for the fact that unlike the other 2 parties, the NDP has some really good people as MPs - unfortunately, their leader is not one of them. Fuck Mulcair and anyone who defends him.

Wed, 2012-11-21 17:36

#88

Catchfire

Talking about Gaza is like talking about God. We face the ineffable. We cannot talk about what we see. Or if we do, we are accused of lacking common sense, failing to take a realistic approach to an unmanageable problem.

What is that problem? Palestinians are the problem. Like so many others in our world today, Palestinians are labeled as “terrorists” by the powerful, so that lethal force is the rule and extreme violence—or exemplary disregard—may be directed indiscriminately against civilians and non-civilians alike. The problem is not a simple one. If we pretend it is, then we risk validating those who hold Israel to an unfair standard, or worse, who question its right to exist. And in protesting Israeli government policy, expressing horror at its brutal excesses, we risk being condemned as “anti-Semitic” or worse, as “self-hating Jews.”

The tired debates about the history of Zionism and the threat of the Palestinian national movement—or, put more bluntly, about the end of Israel and what Jonathan S. Tobin calls “a war with Palestinian Islamists that has no end in sight”—ignore what is specific about more than four decades of Israeli domination in the Occupied Territories. Especially masked in these debates are the unique and various forms of violence used to control the West Bank and Gaza Strip since the eruption of the second Palestinian intifada in September 2000. In the name of “security,” Israel has implemented something like a permanent state of emergency. Brute force coexists with, to a sometimes-calamitous degree, a systematic practice of discrimination, surveillance, and disappearance. Behind the barriers—and they are everywhere—live the confined, sealed off from the zone of inclusion, the Israeli state.

How Not to Talk about Gaza

Wed, 2012-11-21 18:03

#89

Unionist

Kara wrote:

Thanks to all those who supported this POS for leadership of the NDP, especially since his views were no mystery to anyone after his despicable attack on Libby Davies a few years ago. The NDP would suck just as much as the Liberals, Cons, etc. but for the fact that unlike the other 2 parties, the NDP has some really good people as MPs - unfortunately, their leader is not one of them. Fuck Mulcair and anyone who defends him.

It's been inspiring, in recent days, to witness the passionate condemnations of Israeli aggression by Peggy Nash, Brian Topp, Niki Ashton, Robert Chisholm, Romeo Saganash, Nathan Cullen, Martin Singh, and Paul Dewar!

Or no, wait - didn't some of them resign from the party in protest over Mulcair's shameless pro-Zionist stand?

Hang on a sec. I guess I'm forgetting that once the party elects a leader, he decides, and everyone else follows, just like fucking sheep?

Except of course for Libby Davies. It's been truly thrilling to hear her speak out on the latest Israeli atrocities.

Kara, I'm being sarcastic. If you are aware of some profound anti-imperialist pro-liberation sentiment on the part of anyone (anyone) in the NDP establishment, send me a PM if you're afraid they'll be hurt by being named publicly.

Blaming Mulcair is very ostrich-like behaviour. The party as a whole is sick, and it needs urgent treatment. Surgery alone won't do it.

Wed, 2012-11-21 20:47

#90

Boom Boom

The leader of Hamas was interviewed on CNN, and he was fantastic. "How can we recognise Israel when it is on our land?"

Wed, 2012-11-21 20:51

#91

Boom Boom

CNN went inside the largest defense contractor in Israel - an incredible display of high-tech drones and UAWs. All built with American money - part of the $3.1billion annually from the USA. Drones are still flying overhead in Gaza airspace after the cease-fire, and the Israeli defense spokesperson said they need to gather intelligence in case the ceasefire fails. Some fucking ceasefire, eh?

Wed, 2012-11-21 22:48

#92

Mr.Tea

Boom Boom wrote:

Some fucking ceasefire, eh?

Yep, since the "ceasefire" began, 12 rockets have hit Israel.

Wed, 2012-11-21 23:05

#93

Boom Boom

Acording to CNN, one missile from Israel landed in Gaza after the ceasefire. Israel's missiles are equal to many of the rockets sent from Gaza - and Israel is invading Gaza's airspace with those fucking drones, which can be heard on the ground all through the night. You could actually hear the drones overhead on your TV while CNN was interviewing on the ground in Gaza. Israel is clearly the terrorist here with those fucking spy drones equipped with cameras flying overhead - in sovereign Palestinian airspace - while the people of Gaza are trying to get some sleep. And let's not forget Israel is the occupier, not the people of Gaza.

Wed, 2012-11-21 23:07

#94

Unionist

From the Twitter feed of Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Silvan Shalom yesterday:

Quote:
"Who can bare to see the horror, the deaths of children and innocent people trying to protect their occupied land? STOP THE WAR #GAZA"

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20428340]BBC news[/url]

Wed, 2012-11-21 23:27

#95

Boom Boom

I truly believe the only long range solution for peace is for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian land, but fat chance stiff necked bastards like Netanyahu will ever agree to that idea.

Thu, 2012-11-22 03:30

#96

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Do you mean the 1947 boarders?

Thu, 2012-11-22 04:19

#97

NDPP

Shaul Mofaz Says Hamas Won Upper Hand, Ceasefire Mistake

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/22/273888/hamas-won-upper-hand-sha...

"The leader of the Israeli opposition party Kadima has admitted that the Palestinian resistance movement - Hamas, emerged stronger than the Tel Aviv regime during the recent Israeli war on the Gaza Strip, saying the ceasfire was a mistake. 'A cease-fire at this point is a mistake, Hamas has the upper hand,'Shaul Mofaz said on Wednesday, adding 'We should not have stopped at this stage. Hamas got stronger and we did not gain deterrence..."

Israel Has Turned into Pariah State: Analyst (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/21/273761/gazan-will-stronger-than...

"Every hour, Israel is becoming more of a pariah state as people around the world say Oh! Not again, not again.' Press TV talks with Franklin Lamb, a political analyst and international lawyer in Beirut.."

Democracy Now! Interview with Raji Sourani and Richard Falk on Gaza Assault and International Humanitarian Law

http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8511/democracy-now-interview-with-r...

"President Obama has announced his full support for Israel's ongoing assault on the Gaza Strip, even as dozens of Palestinians, including many civilians, continue to be killed by US supplied weaponry.."

Thu, 2012-11-22 08:28

#98

Boom Boom

"When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing... You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense."

~ Noam Chomsky

Thu, 2012-11-22 10:26

#99

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I seen that graphic last night when I was searching around for the different boarders but I was too lazy to post it.

Ok so which one are you talking about, the 1946 or 1947 maps?

Thu, 2012-11-22 10:48

#100

Unionist

Boom Boom, I strongly suggest that you let Bec take that endless debate to another thread, rather than get sucked into determining what the final shape of a Palestinian state should look like.

Anyway, the 1947 boarders were evicted by the new landlords in 1948 and have been homeless ever since.

Thu, 2012-11-22 10:52

#101

Boom Boom

I prefer just to ignore Bec.

Israel launches airstrikes on Gaza again -- November 2012

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