Rob Ford's Weight

Mr.Tea wrote:

But lots of people who don't have their resources don't have the same options. When someone like Romney tells college kids worried about escalating education costs to "just borrow the money from your parents", that shows a high degree of being out of touch and seems reflective of his own worldview, having gone to Harvard and Stanford and never worried about it because his family had money.

So, look at Rob Ford's policies and see if they don't display the same sort of bias based on lifestyle or worldview. A guy who is morbidly obese cutting community exercise and sports programs for kids. Cutting nutritional programs that poor kids use. Waging war on cyclists. Is a fat guy cutting nutrition programs for poor kids any less objectionable or any better optics than a rich guy giving tax breaks to other rich guys?

I don't think the parallel with Romney works.  Romney is wealthy, thus he was able to pursue education without the government assisting him with tuition.  If Ford had personal trainers and a super buff physique, then the parallel might work (IE, he can afford such things, but is cutting access to those who cannot).  However Ford is all for eating at fast food restaurants, and opposes government intervention (IE, taxing fast food to bring revenue in for school nutrition programs is something he would oppose).  I'm guessing Ford feels people should be free to be whom they are without interference.  Shop at Wal-Mart, eat at KFC, drive gas-guzzling cars, solicit donations on city letterhead, etc.  He is the living embodiment of his beliefs. 

Mr.Tea wrote:

But when a politician like Idaho senator Larry Craig goes around denouncing gay people, opposing equal rights for gay couples, etc. while at the same time cruising for blowjobs in airport men's rooms, I think it's appropriate to point out that hypocrisy.

Isn't it time to close this utterly offensive thread? Or do we need to get it all out first?

I agree with Michelle that this is an important discussion that needs to be had. I'm not sure what purpose deleting this thread would serve.

Junkyard Dog wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me when well-meaning and otherwise intelligent people on our side of the aisle insist on adhering to some non-existant Marquess of Queensbury rules while our very real enemies gleefully engage in the most vicious kind of political hardball...

See, here's the thing, it's about our values and living up to them.

It's something I've been mulling. When the right does things that are Very Wrong people from both sides of the aisle often just shrug. Like Harper's doublespeak on transparency and accountability and lower spending and so and so forth. Keeps talking about it, keeps doing the exact opposite. It's as though we all have very low expectations of the right's living up to their values, so while we may be indignant or even disgusted when they don't, nobody (on either side) is at all surprised.

When the left does something Very Wrong people from both sides of the aisle get upset, often vehemently so. Witness criticism of the NDP from the left when the party or one of the leaders says or does something that doesn't align with our values. It's because the expectation that we'll live up to our values is high ... including from the right. Odd, isn't it?

But the high road is a pretty fine route to take.

This approach tells me which side I want to be on. That's the side that lives up to our values. And that includes feeling free to be critical about people's actions, but to try not to descend to personal attacks, particularly about things that cause people to be marginalized. For personal things. Especially because as we can see on this thread, those attacks have an externalized effect on others who are marginalized.

Mocking Ford's weight says to the other people around you that you are someone who isn't taking into account the effect that mockery has on those who have been bullied, who have been discriminated against, who are continually judged, who have faced far too many cruel comments ... and who are very understandably not going to see you as an ally, or as progressive, when you do so.

There's more than enough to criticize about Rob Ford's actions, attitudes, double standards and hypocrisy. We don't have to negate our values in order to do so.

[Gawd, I can get preachy sometimes, eh?]

I want to add to the Michelle love. Yay, Michelle! 

My entire personal experience with fat comes from the staggering amount of weight I gained during my 1st pregnancy. I started at 125 lbs, and through stress and overwork, I about doubled my weight. It took about a year to get skinny again, and one evening I was out with a couple of girlfriends when they looked at each other and looked at me and said, "We just wanted to say how great you look after you lost all the weight. We were worried about you."

I mean, nice sentiment and all, but when I got home I said to my husband, "So if I stayed fat, would they not like me any more?"

So my point is I had only a merely tiny taste of the fat hatred in our culture. Michelle's account of such highly personal and painful experiences is an educational read for somebody like me. I am truly humbled.

Oh, and to clarify: the whole "cut the waist" challenge was Doug Ford's idea. Doug is big, but he's not obese like his brother. To drag one's brother into a public spectacle with the real possibility of humiliating failure is an interesting expression of brotherly love, no?

Sineed, that is exactly what happened to my friend who became morbidly obese - in spades, she had challenging pregnancies and had to pretty much stay in bed. Alas both of her children turned out severely autistic - screaming in a "non-human" way (I'm not saying that to insinuate that these disabled children are not human, just that the sound was not that of normal crying or screaming babies). Her spouse is abusive, and she stays with him to have resources for the children, as he has a professional job. 

People stare at my friend if we walk down the street. (I'm no fashion model myself, by the way, but the hatred directed towards my friend is a shock). I do worry about her health, as she is in a state that makes it very difficult to walk much or do much other exercise. That has nothing to do with whether I like her or value her. 

Brachina, I have no love for Rob Ford - I do NOT love my enemies, I'm no Christian. I agree about love - and respect - if you mean either friends or simply normal, decent people who are deeply hurt and harmed by fat-bashing and other manifestations of lookism. Our society is deeply skewed in that way - and yes, if the mockery of Ford is one aspect of it, the very fact that a twit like Trudeau is considered as Prime Minister is another form of lookism. Both of them hail from wealthy families, by the way. 

The harm done by fat-bashing isn't just insults - it means lost jobs, being passed over for promotions, lower incomes and worse medical treatment. With lower incomes, many overweight people have to shop in stores where the clothing is far more expensive than "normal" ranges, for lower quality (though a HUGE percentage of women are veering into the lower end of oversize by middle age) and there are many other extra expenses. It is extremely difficult to find clothing for professional jobs in sizes over 10-12 or so - a hell of a long way from "morbidly obese", and such clothing is extremely expensive. Not all jobs that require professional-level clothing are actually highly-paid or full-time. 

Far from Rob Ford, a current PQ minister, Daniel Breton of Environment and Durable Development, is getting both the fat-bashing (he is short and round, not at all the height or girth of Ford, but not the stereotype of the lean ecologist either). And the (farther-right) opposition parties are tearing into him for "poor judgement" for the tiny misdeeds poverty causes; things like not paying his rent. He was active in ill-paid or non-paid environmental activism for years. 

Brachina, what on earth has voting in the Liberal leadership race got to do with the left? I don't see the connection. 

I took the time to go through and read all the comments, including the dialogue between Michelle and Rabble_Incognito.  Generally when babblers start having what appears to be a personal snipe fest between one another, I skip over the postings to just try to comment on issues.  So, I hadn't read those postings.  But, in this case it seemed a good idea to read them, and after reading them (particularly one of Michelle's posts) I did feel some important points were made, and it made me reconsider a statement I made previously regarding Ford's cut the waist thing.  Good to have one's views challenged, I figure.

Alan, Rob Ford is privileged, but in many Western countries (including some of the wealthier "Global South" ones such as Mexico and Brazil), poorer people are more inclined to be overweight and obese. Mississipi, the poorest state in the US, is also the most obese. 

Today, some ijut on a call-in show made precisely the comment that Daniel Breton, the PQ environment minister who had to resign, "did not look like someone who ever missed a meal", as Breton had claimed. Breton is not at all of Ford's size, but definitely short and stout/stocky. 

Cheap food is often fatty or cheap carbs, and food insecurity also leads to overeating when food is available. It can be a hard habit to break, even when people are better off. An extreme example of that was people in prison and concentration camps. 

Yes, you also see Ford really moving around when coaching his football team. I suspect he also has quite a bit of muscle. 

Actually, I think a fair number of thin or average/slightly pudgy people also have that behaviour. 

We must also remember that it is absolutely normal for eating to be among the most pleasant behaviours, right up there with sex, deep friendships and "communion", whether religious or political/social. We are mammals after all.