Why are you here, Bec? I think there's right wing forums that would fit you better.
Tragedy in Connecticut
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:12
#202
Boom Boom
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:12
#203
Bec.De.Corbin
Tommy, what's an "untraceable" gun?
It’s a gun, that's usually stolen, and had its serial number ground off so you can't trace it in a data base... With a serial number you can at least trace the weapon from where it was innately sold on through any law abiding citizens that own it and register it up to the point of when it is reported stolen. While that might not seem like much it has in the past lead to the solving of various crimes becouse the police could trace the serial number of a gun. Not every criminal is smart enough to remove the serial number well enought that it can't be read.
As for the rest of your stuff here, lets go this direction: who are you to tell other law abiding people they shouldn’t have a fire arm when the law says they can have one should they decide to? Maybe you should follow your own advice you hand out in other threads in the international forum here about people telling other people what to do with their lives.
Now if you’ll excuse me I have to get back to admiring my arsenal.
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:13
#204
Bec.De.Corbin
Funny, they tell me to come here...
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:16
#205
pretty agressive unionist might wanna dial back a bit!
Sorry quizzical, I didn't mean to be "aggressive". You chimed in with a very sarcastic and mocking post, so I tried to match your tone. Sorry if I misfired, so to speak.
....seems to me most shootings i hear about here in Canada are hand guns in public places and having a hand gun in a public place is against the law in Canada. the bans on hand guns doesn't seem to be stopping hand gun shootings so i don't think a ban on a already banned weapon in order to stop murders by guns is going to work unless ya get down to every nook and cranny.
First of all, this thread is about the shooting in Connecticut. We have another thread about gun control in Canada. The only reason I mentioned Canadian laws here is to give you examples that the U.S. could (at least) ban handguns without having to search every room in every house on an ongoing basis.
When it comes to Canada, my proposal is quite different. [b]All firearms[/b] should be banned within municipal areas. I've outlined this over the years, along with other elements of what I think needs to be done to protect people from being maimed and murdered, by accident or design. In case you are not aware, most (maybe all) people killed in mass shootings in Canada were killed by legal weapons - not what you call "already banned" weapons. All those weapons must be kept out of cities, where there is no legitimate need for them.
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:23
#206
Bec.De.Corbin
All those weapons must be kept out of cities, where there is no legitimate need for them.
The problum is laws or bans like that woun't stop them from being present any more then drug laws stop drugs in your cities.
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:25
#207
Tommy, what's an "untraceable" gun?It’s a gun, that's usually stolen, and had its serial number ground off so you can't trace it in a data base...
Hi Bec! Maybe read the thread before commenting? I can't force you to - it's a free country and home of the brave! - but I can suggest it.
Here's what Tommy said:
...publishing a map to where just anyone can break in and get themselves an untraceable gun seems counter productive...
I was a little puzzled as to why a gun in your home (say) would be "untraceable", whereas a gun stolen from a gun store (or anywhere else) would be "traceable". Of course, both guns are the same. They all come bearing serial numbers from the manufacturer. And I'm quite sure you note down the serial numbers of your guns - don't you? So, as you say, if the thief who steals your gun isn't smart enough to remove it, that gun will be traced right back to you, after you report the theft.
On the other hand, if the thief is smart, he will also grind off the serial number of the guns he steals from the local gun drive-in store.
That's why I was hoping Tommy would explain what he meant. He seemed to be presenting this as part of an argument against publicizing who has gun permits. I just wanted to make sure I understood his argument. I still don't.
As for the rest of your stuff here, lets go this direction: who are you to tell other law abiding people they shouldn’t have a fire arm when the law says they can have one should they decide to?
You are profoundly confusing my position. I think law abiding people (in fact, even people who break laws but are not incarcerated) should be free to have whatever firearm the law allows them. My aim is to change the law, so that everyone is deprived of that privilege simultaneously. Where, exactly, did you see me tell people they shouldn't have firearms? If I did, I apologize in advance.
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:34
#208
Funny, they tell me to come here...
Yes, I hear you.
Thu, 2012-12-27 22:35
#209
Boom Boom
As for the rest of your stuff here, lets go this direction: who are you to tell other law abiding people they shouldn’t have a fire arm when the law says they can have one should they decide to?
Not one progressive person I know would ever say something like that. Sounds lifted from an NRA handbook or something.
Thu, 2012-12-27 23:13
#210
Bec.De.Corbin
As for the rest of your stuff here, lets go this direction: who are you to tell other law abiding people they shouldn’t have a fire arm when the law says they can have one should they decide to?
Not one progressive person I know would ever say something like that. Sounds lifted from an NRA handbook or something.
It's not Boom Boom, I was just playing around with Unionist. Lightern up will ya... sheeez
Thu, 2012-12-27 23:15
#211
Bec.De.Corbin
@Unionist....
Yes, I have been following the thread and I think Tommy was suggesting the gun would become untraceable after its stolen and the serial number was removed by thieves that used the list to find houses that could have guns in them. That is my take on it anyways. A gun can only become truly untraceable if the serial number is removed (properly). It doesn’t matter where it’s stolen from. I hope that explains it a bit better.
I was just ribbing you about the rest of the stuff... It is absolutely your right to have the local laws in your area changed if you can get enough support. Since how you don’t live nowhere near me I’ll even wish you luck on that… (now if we can only get Boom Boom to calm down LOL).
Owning a weapon of any kind is a personnel decision by each individual and that is how I’d like to keep it. There are lots of people down here in Texas whom don’t own a gun (believe it or not). I am not one of them by choice not by law.
Fri, 2012-12-28 02:18
#212
RT just aired a piece on record soaring gun sales in America. Gun dealers say it's the best Xmas they've ever seen. And the hottest seller is the Bushmaster AR 15. If the piece goes to their website I'll post it.
Fri, 2012-12-28 09:37
#213
Boom Boom
It seems any time Obama says anthing about guns or gun control, sales spike.
Fri, 2012-12-28 09:40
#214
Boom Boom
It's not Boom Boom, I was just playing around with Unionist. Lightern up will ya... sheeez
Okay, sorry. It's kind of touching on raw nerves, though.
Fri, 2012-12-28 09:51
#215
think law abiding people (in fact, even people who break laws but are not incarcerated) should be free to have whatever firearm the law allows them. My aim is to change the law, so that everyone is deprived of that privilege simultaneously. Where, exactly, did you see me tell people they shouldn't have firearms? If I did, I apologize in advance.
Canadians own lots of guns and so do the Swiss - submachine guns in every other household there from what I've read.
Believe it or not they need socialized medicine in the USSA and always have needed it. They already have socialism for rich people who don't need it.
Free mental healthcare for every American! It should be the law.
Fri, 2012-12-28 10:13
#216
Boom Boom
CBC reporting this morning that three police officers were shot inside a New Jersey Police Headquarters building. One, wearing a bullet-proof vest, was shot just below his vest, and is in surgery.
Fri, 2012-12-28 10:48
#217
As for the rest of your stuff here, lets go this direction: who are you to tell other law abiding people they shouldn’t have a fire arm when the law says they can have one should they decide to?
Not one progressive person I know would ever say something like that. Sounds lifted from an NRA handbook or something.
Hm. There have been oodles of threads on babble discussing gun control over the years and I have definitely heard Bec's sentiment expressed, by people even you would conisder progressive boom boom.
Fri, 2012-12-28 11:16
#218
Boom Boom
Posted this reply, was taken to rabble.ca instead.
Second attempt:
Progressive people expressing NRA-like talking points? Sounds oxymoron-ish to me. 
Fri, 2012-12-28 11:37
#219
@ Boom Boom
Well that depends on whether one considers the statement "NRA-like". Frankly, in the face of some of the sentiments I have been reading here I think it is entirely appropriate.
I can appreciate that you might find it grating, but I feel the same way about being told that mass murderers are "my people" and "my problem", and that gun ownership is something that should automatically be considered a bad influence and cause for suspicion.
Never mind that I know for a fact that is nonsense, there comes a point in the discussion where I think it is entirely appropriate to remind some that we are talking about people who are complying with the law, and who for the most part have nothing to do with the violence and need for effective gun laws which I think most of us agree on.
I am interested in solving the problem (something I'd say many gun owners agree with as well), but for me that does not include buying into dogma and guilt that has no basis in reality.
Sorry, but I grew up understanding that a gun was a tool; one to be greatly respected. There was no question of fucking around with it.
One thing I notice seeing kids playing violent games and watching movies is that most of them probably have no clue how deadly a gun really is, and that it is not a toy.
Fri, 2012-12-28 11:49
#220
As Corbin explained, a stolen gun has the paper trail broken on it, serial numbers ground off or not. A handy thing for criminals. Why they don't target gun stores and instead target homes is because homes generally have poorer security features.
Anyway. What do you think is doable, Unionist? What kind of legislation do you think the Congress and Senate in the U.S. will go for?
Surely, it won't be what you and I think should be done.
Fri, 2012-12-28 12:34
#221
Boom Boom
Is there anything Obama can push through against the will of a Republican majority in Congress?
Fri, 2012-12-28 21:13
#222
Anyway. What do you think is doable, Unionist? What kind of legislation do you think the Congress and Senate in the U.S. will go for?
Nothing, Tommy. They are a brutal assembly of invaders, occupiers, profiteers, and assassins. They will never go for anything. Since when did that become the criterion for what people should advocate and fight for?
And to Boom Boom's question, Obama will do nothing, so why ask what he can get?
These illusions are profoundly dangerous. Only catastrophic change will modify the direction of the United States. It may be economic collapse, or war. There is no internal movement of any dimension that can bring about the smallest reform. Tomorrow, maybe. Not now.
In Canada, the situation is very different when it comes to gun control. The main problem right now is the opportunistic reticence of the left forces to tackle that question in the way the Québec has done. I hope it doesn't take another disaster.
Here's more evidence of the brutality that has become the norm in that society to the south:
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/24/gun-rights-cnn-piers-morga... sign U.S. petition to deport CNN host over gun views[/url]
Morgan has taken an aggressive stand for tighter U.S. gun laws in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., school shooting. Last week, he called a gun advocate appearing on his Piers Morgan Tonight show an "unbelievably stupid man."
Now, gun rights activists are fighting back. A petition created Dec. 21 on the White House e-petition website by a user in Texas accuses Morgan of engaging in a "hostile attack against the U.S. Constitution" by targeting the Second Amendment. It demands he be deported immediately for "exploiting his position as a national network television host to stage attacks against the rights of American citizens."
The petition has already hit the 25,000 signature threshold to get a White House response. By Tuesday morning, it had 60,320 signatures.
Fri, 2012-12-28 21:55
#223
What do you mean by opportunistic reticence? As you correctly pointed out, Mulcair has said he would re-introduce the registry if he has the opportunity to do so, and I think there are a fair number of people thorughout Canada who would support it.
And 60,000 signatures? I don't know, that and a side order of freedom fries might mean something (if anyone down there cares about freedom fries anymore, that is).
Fri, 2012-12-28 22:37
#224
What do you mean by opportunistic reticence?
Fear of losing a vote for taking a stand in favour of the people's interests.
As you correctly pointed out, Mulcair has said he would re-introduce the registry if he has the opportunity to do so, and I think there are a fair number of people thorughout Canada who would support it.
I don't trust such statements unless they are backed up by strong membership pressure. Françoise Boivin was already reported as saying that re-introducing the registry isn't a priority. More than one babbler here has described the registry as a "wedge", or as "Liberal" - meaning, opportunistic reticence. That will give Mulcair his excuse to betray his pledge when the time comes, unless we continue the debate and put pressure on the party.
But all this is drift - this thread is about the monstrous society to the south, where anyone can own and use and bear any weapon they want, and they'll shoot you if you try 'n' stop 'em.
And 60,000 signatures? I don't know, that and a side order of freedom fries might mean something (if anyone down there cares about freedom fries anymore, that is).
Why are you trying to downplay the effectiveness of the gun culture and gun lobby in the U.S.? What's your goal in doing so?
Sat, 2012-12-29 00:03
#225
Well Unionist, a day or so ago when I mentioned that some on the left, and in the NDP had said the old registry needed reform your answer was to insist Mulcair had pledged to bring it back like it was a fait accompli and I was out to lunch for second-guessing him.
And I'm not sure who has been calling the registry a wedge. I'd say the Harperites and other tories have tried to make it one. I'd also say the harperites and Liberals and some in this forum tried to use it as a wedge against the NDP in the fall of 2010. But the wedge was the tactic, not the registry itself.
And even in this latest parliament, only two members of the NDP caucus voted for C-19.
And I see a wedge being driven here against those of us who support gun control. but also support responsible gun ownership, and feel the registry as it was was badly in need of reform.
So in that respect I don't see an honest look at what was right and what went wrong as reticence or opportunism. I see it as trying to make sure the campaign for gun control doesn't go down the same road as the war on drugs or the war on booze.
Because I agree with you on one thing - if there isn't the critical mass to make a new law fly, it is not going to fly.
And sorry, but 60,000 online signatures to deport a talkshow host? Obviously I'm trying to downplay the dire threat because I am a covert plant from the NRA.
Sat, 2012-12-29 03:41
#226
RevolutionPlease
Whatever, we're beating the bushes.
U has a point, beliggerrent as he is. Cool it U.
We need to talk outside our circles.
I'm anti-gun too but get the rhetoric. My Dad has guns he wants to pass to me. I'm resisting.
I like U's idea's, they work for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgT1AidzRWM
Maybe they should come get me. I sound fucked up don't I?
There's a bigger problem we're all missing, no?
Sat, 2012-12-29 03:46
#227
RevolutionPlease
So, where do we go? It's a given we're missing something, no?
Is it socioeconomic or cultural? I'd posit that it's a class issue. That's just me.
Your thoughts?
Sat, 2012-12-29 03:48
#228
RevolutionPlease
Sat, 2012-12-29 03:50
#229
RevolutionPlease
Let's walk this world together!
Sat, 2012-12-29 04:07
#230
RevolutionPlease
Really, you gunfolk really gotta meet some middle ground. Why you all so obstinate? Can't we find medium ground?
Partial ban, my folks can defend ourselves from duh guv'mint, heh?
Sat, 2012-12-29 04:19
#231
RevolutionPlease
Whaddaya know bout #Idlenomore?
Sat, 2012-12-29 04:23
#232
RevolutionPlease
Sat, 2012-12-29 04:27
#233
RevolutionPlease
I'm a chill, quit freaking out U. You're in dreamland. We neeed to come together and make progress.
Unionist, your utopian views don't hunt. Respect. Where do we go from here>
Sat, 2012-12-29 04:28
#234
RevolutionPlease
Sat, 2012-12-29 05:58
#235
Chicago Murder Rate Sets New Record
http://rt.com/usa/news/chicago-murder-year-city-038/
"...the city can claim 500 homicides in a single year.."
America's Frontier Mentality - by Lawrence Davidson
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33449.htm
"On the killing of children and others, domestic and foreign..."
America's Descent into Deception and Tyranny - by Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.globalresearch.ca/americas-descent-into-deception-and-tyranny...
"Suddenly, 20 US children become of massive importance to 'progressives'. Why? Because the deaths foster their agenda-gun control in the US..."
Wed, 2013-01-16 12:10
#236
Wed, 2013-01-16 15:05
#237
I'd be very surprised if anything significant gets passed in the US. Thanks to Obamacare the US can't require registration of guns or ammo [not sure if that extends to the simple purchase of ammo]. As someone else posted above, guns are flying off the shelves (apparently lineups to get into gun shows are hundreds of yards long) - speaking from memory, even prior to this last flurry of sales estimates had some 300 million guns in the US, the vast majority of which are unregistered. Any gun control legislation is likely to send even more guns "underground".
As for high capacity magazines, there are literally millions of them out there, and, if you can't buy one, simply print your own.
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2013/01/so-much-for-banning-standard-capacity_15.html
Wed, 2013-01-16 16:53
#238
An itemized list:
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/16/us/obama-gun-control-propo...'s in Obama's Gun Control Proposal[/url]
Tue, 2013-02-26 00:10
#239
Pathetic as obviously they have have had their knuckles rapped by the fanatical right-wing yahoos South of us.
Local newspaper grovels over gun records request
“We never meant to offend the wonderful people of this fine community,” writes Cherokee Scout publisher David Brown
Tue, 2013-02-26 12:41
#240
Tue, 2013-02-26 12:43
#241
Not sure if this has been posted somewhere else, but effing creepy:
[just adding a second link here.]
Sun, 2013-03-10 22:22
#242
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/09/us/south-dakota-gun-law-classrooms.htm... Dakota passes law to let school employees carry guns[/url]
South Dakota became the first state in the nation to enact a law explicitly authorizing school employees to carry guns on the job, under a measure signed into law on Friday by Gov. Dennis Daugaard. [...]“Our kids start hunting here when they’re preteens,” said Kevin Jensen, who supports the bill and is the vice president of the Canton School Board in South Dakota. “We know guns. We respect guns.”
Mon, 2013-03-11 00:59
#243
Sure long gun registration does not help with hand guns... But:
"Since the introduction of stricter gun laws in 1991, there has been a 65 per cent reduction in homicides by long guns, Statistics Canada data shows. The reduction in homicides involving any type of firearm was 37 per cent.
Statistics Canada released a report on Oct. 26, 2011, on homicides in Canada in 2010. That year, there were 170 shooting homicides, about 32 per cent of all homicides. The total homicide rate fell to its lowest level since 1966 (1.62 per 100,000 population).
From 1995, when the firearms registry became law, to 2010, there was a 41 per cent reduction in homicides by long guns."
Cost per survivor admitted to hospital with gunshot wounds: $435,000
Lots of stats here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/10/25/f-firearms-numbers.html
Thu, 2013-03-14 18:28
#244
Wed, 2013-09-11 22:11
#245
Anyway. What do you think is doable, Unionist? What kind of legislation do you think the Congress and Senate in the U.S. will go for?Nothing, Tommy. They are a brutal assembly of invaders, occupiers, profiteers, and assassins. They will never go for anything. Since when did that become the criterion for what people should advocate and fight for?
And to Boom Boom's question, Obama will do nothing, so why ask what he can get?
These illusions are profoundly dangerous. Only catastrophic change will modify the direction of the United States. It may be economic collapse, or war. There is no internal movement of any dimension that can bring about the smallest reform. Tomorrow, maybe. Not now.
Yeah, so to continue on my theme that the mass murder of children in Newtown meant zero to the brutal American society, here's the latest blow for freedom:
[url=http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/10/colo-senators-faceouster... senators ousted in recall vote after supporting gun bill [/url]
The national gun-control debate took center stage Tuesday in Colorado's first-ever recall elections, with two state senators losing their seats as a result of supporting laws introducing background checks for gun purchases, and ammunition clip limits.
Senate President John Morse and fellow Democratic Sen. Angela Giron conceded defeat Tuesday night. Both had voted for 15-round limits on ammunition magazines and for expanded background checks on private gun sales after the deadly mass shootings in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater and at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., last year.
As I said - nothing will ever change there - short of some catastrophe. Let's keep hoping.
Thu, 2013-09-12 09:28
#246
Depends where in the U.S. your talking about. In larger urban areas, the Boston-D.C. corridor and the pacific coast, gun control is popular. The rest of the country is generally a bastion of gun nuttery. Driven by a misreading of the second amendment, and a culture that worships radical indivdualism.
Thu, 2013-09-12 09:41
#247
Josh, I write in extreme ways (sometimes). When I describe the society as "brutal", I mean to characterize its actions - not its people. And those actions are largely attributable to a minuscule handful of greedy rich rulers. It's very telling that in the recall campaign, about 85% of the campaign funding went to the pro-recall forces (according to the linked story - almost $3 million out of $3.5 million).
Fri, 2013-09-13 07:43
#248
I have to admit that when I saw what had happened in Colorado my first thought was that it must be a heavily republican state. Not so
http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/VoterRegNumbers/VoterRegNumbers.html
Fri, 2013-09-13 07:51
#249
infracaninophile
Parenthetical to discussion, but this op-ed piece by the mother of the little Winnipeg girl killed at Sandy Hook is a powerful and moving piece. I hope Skinny Dipper sees it.
edited to fix typo
Fri, 2013-09-13 09:38
#250
I heard one of the Senators and she claimed it was primarily a case of the right using all its voter suppression techniques and it did result in a very low turnout. The turnout was under 30%. I noticed on Google that Fox news has a headline stating boldly that it was NOT about voter suppression. If Fox is trumpeting that line then it must be true that it was voter suppression that was the real game.
Fri, 2013-09-13 10:32
#251
No, I think it was more of a matter of intensity. For those who are anti-gun control, it is, if not the top, near the top of the issues that matter most to them. They'd crawl over broken glass if the NRA gave them the word to vote. For most of those who are pro-gun control, which is most people by varying degrees, it is not a priority issue.