He was supported by Svend Robinson and Libby Davies.
The two left-wing outcasts of the federal caucus.
Gee I wonder why people think the NDP is now a liberal lite party. The left wing of the party supported Jack and that gave him his win. The left wing listened to those two outcasts.
If your views are rampant in the party I would not be surprised to see Libby not run in the next election. Then East Van could get an NDP "Stepford" MP just Like Burnaby Douglas has.
There are plenty of left-wingers and former communists working in the higher, middle and lower powerbrokers in the NDP.
Because of so many new MPs in Quebec, the federal party is more radical than they are letting on.
They are just very disciplined.
One major demographic change that I feel has really hurt the NDP in Saskatchewan is the massive migration of Albertans to Saskatchewan. About 6-8 years ago, housing and rental costs were very reasonably priced. A lot of people from BC and Alberta sold their properties in their provinces at top dollar and bought real estate in Saskatchewan dirt cheap which really drove up demand and housing costs. The original CCFer's are in nursing homes, and the new generation that has come in from the west has this big oil Alberta type psychology, and how does the NDP market itself to this new demographic?
These Alberta immigrants, and I don't mean to sound discriminatory, but I really feel this way, do not understand our province's history. They don't know what injustices were fought on Saskatchewan turf nor why, and they don't know how hard it was for Saskatchewan, a have-not province, to compete and survive through such economic austerity, and why we value our crowns through good times and bad.
For instance, the provincial ridings in Moose Jaw used to be safe NDP. They are now SP. There is a new young generation that simply doesn't know, and unfortunately, the only way they will learn is to experience hardships themselves. You can't educate them. So how does the NDP work around this?
This is why i think they are moving to the right as seen with their support of the XL Pipeline.
I live in Moose Jaw. There is hardly a trace of critical thinking ability among the population.
It is the result of the narrow media and trade school education system mentality.
I live in Moose Jaw. There is hardly a trace of critical thinking ability among the population.
It is the result of the narrow media and trade school education system mentality.
I know a lot of CP road trade workers and they are very strong union people and some are very strong NDP, there's a strong silent NDP in that company as well.
I live in Moose Jaw. There is hardly a trace of critical thinking ability among the population.
It is the result of the narrow media and trade school education system mentality.
In the last provincial election the NDP got 38% of the vote in one Moose Jaw riding and 46% in the other. In most places in Canada you would have at least one NDP MLA with those numbers and with 46% it would be considered a stronghold.
Even in Quebec with its Orange Wave it only got 42.9% last federal election and in Palliser the NDP got 44.7%. The Conservative vote nationwide was 39.6% and the NDP's 30.6%.
Maybe your riding is a good illustration of what happens when you have a two party race.
The only reason the NDP did so well (and those numbers aren't that great for a 2-party race) in the last election is because they have great organization left over from the glory days, but no one here believes in the movement anymore.
Whats to believe in when the "movement" morphs into a centrist election machine?
Exactly, thats why we need to start up the CCF again :)
OK, I just hadn't seen Idle No More's name reduced to an acronym...didn't really deserve the snark(also, I'm not a TOTAL idiot, and was familiar with the other abbreviations).
You have a very thin skin. Tell me is there anyway to answer your posts without you taking it as snark. I'll bet most people I asked would say they don't know what the CCF stands for and even more so for QS. I will try to read your mind better next time so you don't accuse me of calling you an idiot when I was trying to clarify a post you asked about.
I'm not really that thin-skinned...I suppose I was just reacting to the idea that there was no excuse for anyone NOT to know that INM stood for Idle No More (I support INM and its objectives, FWIW). I don't think I usually sound hypersensitive in response to your posts...if I do come off that way, I'll try to work on that.
I usually learn something from your posts and find them interesting, and as far as I can recollect I haven't been exceptionally hostile to you. We agree on most things, after all.
Yes we do agree with most things which is why I thought the snark comment was uncalled for. I realized though that I had been guilty of using acronyms without putting the full name somewhere first. That is something in my professional life that I would never do and it bugged me so I wrote out all three. It certainly was not to suggest you were idiotic.
.
.
I live in Moose Jaw. There is hardly a trace of critical thinking ability among the population.
It is the result of the narrow media and trade school education system mentality.
... and the tunnels?
Yes we do agree with most things which is why I thought the snark comment was uncalled for. I realized though that I had been guilty of using acronyms without putting the full name somewhere first. That is something in my professional life that I would never do and it bugged me so I wrote out all three. It certainly was not to suggest you were idiotic.
OK.
I live in Moose Jaw. There is hardly a trace of critical thinking ability among the population.
It is the result of the narrow media and trade school education system mentality.
... and the tunnels?
The tunnels are like Moose Jaw's Ring Cycle lol
He was supported by Svend Robinson and Libby Davies.
The two left-wing outcasts of the federal caucus.
Gee I wonder why people think the NDP is now a liberal lite party. The left wing of the party supported Jack and that gave him his win. The left wing listened to those two outcasts.
If your views are rampant in the party I would not be surprised to see Libby not run in the next election. Then East Van could get an NDP "Stepford" MP just Like Burnaby Douglas has.
You misread my intention. Ryan Meili was the left-wing candidate in this race (and the one I wanted to win) and he lost. Jack Layton was supported by the left in his race for federal leader and he won. One party has nowhere to go but down and the other went up. I think the NDP renews best, when it hews to its roots.
I have seen some of the best the NDP has to offer be rejected and basically pushed aside for being too left wing. Your cryptic post was not clear to me and I agree that the NDP as it abandons it left wing roots has nowhere to go. That is why I think Tom is so dangerous to the long term health of the left wing in this country. If the NDP refuses to tackle the tough issues that the MSM is promoting then who will. If there is is no discourse then the majority of potential voters who are not political junkies, like the people on babble, will never get educated and proactive about real change. That is why the party's new acceptance of the corporate rights agreements is so very troubling to me.
When you look back, our country has done its best when there have been Liberal minority governments where the NDP has held the balance of power. That is when NDP ideas get implemented nationally like the baby bonus, old age pensions, federal financing for government funded healthcare, etc. The NDP needs to be a very vocal and active conscience. If Mulcaire wants to lead the NDP to power, he is going to definitely turn his back on the partys core principles and act just like another right wing government.
When you look back, our country has done its best when there have been Liberal minority governments where the NDP has held the balance of power. That is when NDP ideas get implemented nationally like the baby bonus, old age pensions, federal financing for government funded healthcare, etc. The NDP needs to be a very vocal and active conscience. If Mulcaire wants to lead the NDP to power, he is going to definitely turn his back on the partys core principles and act just like another right wing government.
oops, sorry about the double post.
.
In an Angus Reid poll of 7,091 voters on the popularity of premiers, Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall led all premiers with 64% approval rating while NDP leader NDP leader Cam Broten is at 32% and Green Party leader Victor Lau has 15%.
Among opposition leaders Dix tied for third place with Ontario's Andrea Horvath behind Lorraine Michael (NDP - Newfoundland) at 61% and Danielle Smith (Alberta -Wildrose) at 53%.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/48733/saskatchewans-wall-keeps-place-as-...
Wall has had the great luck to become premier at the beginning of an oil boom in a formerly have-not province making his popularity difficult to overcome because most people focus on the economy in terms of deciding who to vote for. It is too early to tell how well Broten will do over time but he has been able to establish enough of a connection with one third of voters to gain their support. It is good to see many NDP opposition leaders in other provinces doing so well, especially Dix, who is on the verge of being elected BC premier in May.
In two years, anything can happen. I see good things for the NDP in Saskatchewan again. I never lose hope. Whether they are behind pipelines or not, the NDP will do the most to protect healthcare and the crowns. Also, they offer the best labour legislation of all the parties.
http://globalnews.ca/news/526381/saskatchewan-ndp-name-new-ceo-provincia...Nothing says renewal more than appointing an MLA from a tired government to a top party position.
Cripes! How many more times is the Saskatchewan NDP going to fail to get the message that it needs to clean house?
I had a chance to look at some of the videos of Question Period this session, and frankly, they leave me flat. They just show NDP MLAs getting up and making accusations, without showing us what the response is from the Saskatchewan Party. They should show both so people can have a better idea of what exactly is being discussed, but not having that to me smacks of self-promotion.
I had a chance to look at some of the videos of Question Period this session, and frankly, they leave me flat.
If the Romanow/Calvert/Lingenfelter NDP had any succession plan in place, it wasn't visible to the average person and that problem is compounded by the fact today's narrative in Saskatchewan is anti-NDP. The young people on the left who should have replaced the old guard have either switched or are uninvolved in politics. The demographic problem is compounded by the fact that NDP has offerred nothing that has really resonated much with the average citizen and that is reflected in the flat performances in QP.
I suppose the right leadership could make the correct interventions that would fix the NDP, but I will ask the board if they feel if the leaders are up to that task.
.
Seriously, I'm not sure what you are saying. The membership voted for whoever became leader and so this is what you have got. Maybe start the youth party. Wait, in BC, it was an overrepresentation of the youth vote that messed up the polling and had the NDP so much in the lead.
I haven't a clue but just maybe you and others from Sask need to get really involved in the politics of the party and bring that energy, drive and new ideas to the party. Join your riding association, run for provincial positions
I was gently trying to suggest that the NDP in Saskatchewan decayed over the years to the point it may not be socially or politically relevant - it's current base of strength is trading on some past glories. I'm not really interested in an activist role, but I'm concerned about how my values are being represented. I don't really think that there is much point in bringing about another leadership race, or throwing the bums out, but it would take a rare, generational type-of-talent to bring about some massive renewal.
If the Romanow/Calvert/Lingenfelter NDP had any succession plan in place, it wasn't visible to the average person and that problem is compounded by the fact today's narrative in Saskatchewan is anti-NDP. The young people on the left who should have replaced the old guard have either switched or are uninvolved in politics. The demographic problem is compounded by the fact that NDP has offerred nothing that has really resonated much with the average citizen and that is reflected in the flat performances in QP.I suppose the right leadership could make the correct interventions that would fix the NDP, but I will ask the board if they feel if the leaders are up to that task.
I know that Dr. Meili brought a great deal of energy and enthusiasm to the party with his leadership campaign. Has the party not found a way to capitalize on that to keep it going?
no, so get rid of them. If one doesn't make your mark in 1 year or less, throw the bums out. Ditto on the federal side. Politics is cut throat business and the NDP is just like any other party. Time for that progressive lib renewal and rebirth, for shiny and new and better. Right.
Seriously, I'm not sure what you are saying. The membership voted for whoever became leader and so this is what you have got. Maybe start the youth party. Wait, in BC, it was an overrepresentation of the youth vote that messed up the polling and had the NDP so much in the lead.
I haven't a clue but just maybe you and others from Sask need to get really involved in the politics of the party and bring that energy, drive and new ideas to the party. Join your riding association, run for provincial positions.
Well, people should be more active in the party in any case, just because that's a good thing to do, but, if the party is 30 points down in Sask under this leadership, can't we assume that the party will NEVER be popular as long as the current leadership remains in place? 30 points is the kind of lead the Alberta PC's always used to have before the Wildrose emerged to challenge them from the right. And in a normal parliamentary situation, the opposition, whomever it is, is EXPECTED to be ahead of or close to the governing party in the polls between elections. It's inexcusable that, after a year in the job, the current SNDP leader has made no improvement at all in his party's popularity ratings. It's not as if Brad Wall is healing the lame or anything.
Yeah, people should be given a chance to prove they can do their jobs right, but what liklihood exists that the Sask NDP inner circle will EVER improve, if the situation under their leadership is in such pathetic shape now? And can more involvement from below help a party where the leadership isn't changing and isn't interested in changing? And how can any party revival ever happen while the "never change anything, no matter what, because nothing can possibly be worse than change" faction is still running the show?
This is a leadership that seems to ONLY be in place in Sask because there were a lot of people in high places in that party that were more concerned with keeping Meili out of the party leader job, and in preventing party renewal from ever occurring, than they were in actually ever winning a provincial election again. Given that, how much can people really do to improve the Sask NDP's chances? And really, what could Meili be doing that could possibly have the SNDP in WORSE shape than it is now?
It's not about being cold-blooded, Jan, it's about saving the SNDP from permanent political oblivion. One more thirty point loss and it will never win in Saskatchewan again, for God's sakes. It'll all be over in that province from there on in. Saskatchewan is on the verge of turning into Eastern Alberta politically. Doesn't that worry you at all?
.
The SNDP are in a tought spot. Because of the primary sector economy that has exploded here, very few people (especially young), are concerned about the old socialist institutions. It seems that most people are quite content with us turning into Alberta 2.0. So the NDP has two choices: they can move farther to the right as they have been for the past few decades and try to compete with the SaskParty for the centre-right, or they can go back to the left on a similar agenda to that of Erin Weir was advocating in the last leadership race. I don't think Meili's "new-age progressive" stuff is going to work out here (if anywhere). At least Weir was saying things like, "We aren't getting enough for our resources", "SaskParty is selling us out". Many people think this socialist-nationalist messaging won't work because that is what Link did in 2011 and lost bad but he was the wrong messenger for that message. You don't get a former oil man to defend the people against the oil companies.
The SNDP needs to move to the left and start spewing savage socialist rhetoric like Melenchon in last French election. That is their only hope for survival.
The last leadership race showed some of the weakness in the party. At the end of the race, you had one candidate from the left with a great deal of charisma, and a great deal of indiscipline and at times very poor judgment. You had a completely uninspiring backroom boy with discipline to spare. Lastly, you had a membership base that rather than growing, shrank and so it looks like the party will be spending the next little while in the wilderness, at least until better leadership shows up.
BC is going through a similar phenomenom. The NDP there was shut out so badly in 2001, that some renewal was able to occur. Unfortunately, now the party is so tightly in the vice-grip of the old school apparatchiks that it's back to the basement we go. The public doesn't like these backroomers, not because they are backroomers or because they are particularly bad people (they are not), but because they are so incredibly out of touch with most of the qualities, policies, and characteristics that matter to the average person and they come across as power-hungry and deflective more than anything else.
The SNDP are in a tought spot. Because of the primary sector economy that has exploded here, very few people (especially young), are concerned about the old socialist institutions. It seems that most people are quite content with us turning into Alberta 2.0. So the NDP has two choices: they can move farther to the right as they have been for the past few decades and try to compete with the SaskParty for the centre-right, or they can go back to the left on a similar agenda to that of Erin Weir was advocating in the last leadership race. I don't think Meili's "new-age progressive" stuff is going to work out here (if anywhere). At least Weir was saying things like, "We aren't getting enough for our resources", "SaskParty is selling us out". Many people think this socialist-nationalist messaging won't work because that is what Link did in 2011 and lost bad but he was the wrong messenger for that message. You don't get a former oil man to defend the people against the oil companies.
The SNDP needs to move to the left and start spewing savage socialist rhetoric like Melenchon in last French election. That is their only hope for survival.
Well put. It's not possible to outflank the Sask Party on the right and still be able to do anything that matters if that approach does get you elected. Blairism is now extinct everywhere else in the political world(as the SPD is refusing to learn in Germany to what will be its deep humiliation on Sept 22)so what possible sense does it make to try to revive it on the prarie?
The SNDP are in a tought spot. Because of the primary sector economy that has exploded here, very few people (especially young), are concerned about the old socialist institutions. It seems that most people are quite content with us turning into Alberta 2.0. So the NDP has two choices: they can move farther to the right as they have been for the past few decades and try to compete with the SaskParty for the centre-right, or they can go back to the left on a similar agenda to that of Erin Weir was advocating in the last leadership race. I don't think Meili's "new-age progressive" stuff is going to work out here (if anywhere). At least Weir was saying things like, "We aren't getting enough for our resources", "SaskParty is selling us out". Many people think this socialist-nationalist messaging won't work because that is what Link did in 2011 and lost bad but he was the wrong messenger for that message. You don't get a former oil man to defend the people against the oil companies.The SNDP needs to move to the left and start spewing savage socialist rhetoric like Melenchon in last French election. That is their only hope for survival.
Well put. It's not possible to outflank the Sask Party on the right and still be able to do anything that matters if that approach does get you elected. Blairism is now extinct everywhere else in the political world(as the SPD is refusing to learn in Germany to what will be its deep humiliation on Sept 22)so what possible sense does it make to try to revive it on the prarie?
The fact that Brad Wall is a brilliant political strategist also doesn't help the NDP. He was smart enough to read the tea leaves on the Senate issue, and just on the radio today I heard about the Saskatchewan government inviting the FSIN into discussions about things like resource management. As a natural NDP constituency, what do Saskatchewan First Nations have to show for the 16 years of NDP rule?
yes it does, re: your last sentence. But the only way to change it is to get involved and have a vote in the membership. Posting on a board like this is not going to change anything there.
That involvement (which I also call for) is probably going to have to be based, from the beginning, on a campaign to root out the "old guard" in the SNDP and to force a leadership review. Party renewal is going to be impossible while the "no change no matter what" faction continues to hold positions of power.
So can anybody else from Saskatchewan comment on how Broten is doing? He's only been in for six months, is that enough of a time to make an impact? As far as I know, opinion polls in Saskatchewan aren't published that often, so what other barometers of public opinion and political performance are there?
We haven't heard anything from Broten. He has been invisible.
So can anybody else from Saskatchewan comment on how Broten is doing?
I've heard a couple of people make positive comments about him, but I'm not sure that Broten has registered much - his position on Keystone sparked a bit of interest but it faded quickly. Political talk in Regina has been on municipal issues (water treatment, stadium, infrastructure), there is a lot of love for Brad Wall, Senate Corruption and the move to redraw riding boundaries have been the important topics. The winds of change may be starting to blow for Harper a tiny bit, but Wall is in a rock-solid position so I am not sure that Broten is viewed as a major provincial leader or a premier-in-waiting. All of that said, it's the summer and elections are a long way off.
Now to shift the discussion a bit.
It's not going to be easy to overcome the obstacles Broten faces. It seems every week I talk to someone who met the premier at a campsite, football game, concert or some event and had a nice chat with him. Living in Regina, the only other premier who I would hear those stories about was Tommy Douglas - who my grandmothers all felt was charming and a gentleman. The rest didn't seem to mingle with the public much except for Calvert - and he was such an everyman that he blended in. One recent NDP leader (who didn't become premier) was notorious for skipping cabs, and bills for drinks. Stuff like that gets around.
Wall hasn't made many enemies either - he's squabbled with organized labour, and been a bit hard on teachers but not much really came of it. The previous NDP government was rather tight fisted (by necessity, but people forgot that part), and most programs and services have more funding (even those which conservative parties traditionally oppose), the roads are better, and the SP has been good at feel-good projects like rehabilitating rural main streets and providing medical rescue helicopters. Also recent prosperity means that Wall hasn't had many hard choices. It's also been really hard for the NDP MLA's to be effective in opposition when the government just replies "you guys were worse at it then we are" when asked a tough question.
If I am Broten, honestly I think he's got to show people he is a good guy too that isn't connected to the old NDP regime (which doesn't play to his base). I'm not sure what I'd do about a voter outreach - perhaps I'd try to connect the Sask Party brand to people like T Lukiwski, M Vellacot, R. Hoback, P. Wallin, G. Devine and the radio shock jocks so I seem moderate, honest and reasonable by comparison. Unrelated, but I think Nathan Cullen had some ideas during the NDP leadership race that might resonate in Sasktachewan - I'd study him closely.
Leftfield thank you for your perspective, are you from Saskatchewan? If so, where?
I have extended family in Saskatchewan. I'm sure you appreciate how the entire province functions like a small town, especially when it comes to politics. Certainly word like that would get around in a way that I have never noticed here in Manitoba, even in Winnipeg.
Leftfield thank you for your perspective, are you from Saskatchewan? If so, where?
I have extended family in Saskatchewan. I'm sure you appreciate how the entire province functions like a small town, especially when it comes to politics. Certainly word like that would get around in a way that I have never noticed here in Manitoba, even in Winnipeg
I live in Regina, but I spend a lot of time away from the city. There is still a small town feel among certain groups, and professions but it's changed a lot these last 8 or 9 years. I can't extend the comparison too much further, but Calgary is evolving into Toronto and Regina is evolving into Calgary.
[ignore]
[size=14]Would some mod please fix the formatting in post #144 above? Thanks.[/size]
So it looks like the NDP had to [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/ndp-dumps-campaign-worker-aft... an advisor[/url] who is facing criminal charges. Problem is, this man also tried to be a Liberal candidate, but the Liberals found this out ahead of time and rejected him, to their credit. So how does the second party, with all its base and supporters, fail to do its homework in advance while the hapless Liberals caught on quickly?
I'm not judging this individual while the matter is before the courts, but the optics of someone facing criminal charges is not good.
So it looks like the NDP had to [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/ndp-dumps-campaign-worker-aft... an advisor[/url] who is facing criminal charges. Problem is, this man also tried to be a Liberal candidate, but the Liberals found this out ahead of time and rejected him, to their credit. So how does the second party, with all its base and supporters, fail to do its homework in advance while the hapless Liberals caught on quickly?
I'm not judging this individual while the matter is before the courts, but the optics of someone facing criminal charges is not good.
[size=14]Isn't this story 6 years old? I wonder what happened to the criminal charges, though.[/size]
[size=16]And the formatting. Mods! Or felixr!! Hey![/size]
Once again we are dealing with jobs. Isn't it amazin' how that issue seems to permeate.
If the SK NDP ever, and right now that seems like a long shot, if they ever want to regain power they might try the novel approach of saying "Yes" to jobs. It has done wonders for Harper, Clark in BC, and Wall in SK. But then again maybe the SK NDP don't really want to win that much, eh!
It is so bad in SK, that Brad Wall, a throwback to the Devine corruption era, and who should have been completely drummed out of politics, is now the Premier of SK, and is running circles around the SK NDP.
So it looks like the NDP had to [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/ndp-dumps-campaign-worker-aft... an advisor[/url] who is facing criminal charges. Problem is, this man also tried to be a Liberal candidate, but the Liberals found this out ahead of time and rejected him, to their credit. So how does the second party, with all its base and supporters, fail to do its homework in advance while the hapless Liberals caught on quickly?
I'm not judging this individual while the matter is before the courts, but the optics of someone facing criminal charges is not good.
[size=14]Isn't this story 6 years old? I wonder what happened to the criminal charges, though.[/size]
[size=16]And the formatting. Mods! Or felixr!! Hey![/size]
Wow, I'm really not on my game today. I was poking around the Saskatchewan CBC website a while ago, and stumbled across that story.
Thanks for pointing out my mistake, unionist. Just, WOW! An utterly stupid move on my part. I apologize for it.
Leftfield thank you for your perspective, are you from Saskatchewan? If so, where?
I have extended family in Saskatchewan. I'm sure you appreciate how the entire province functions like a small town, especially when it comes to politics. Certainly word like that would get around in a way that I have never noticed here in Manitoba, even in Winnipeg
I live in Regina, but I spend a lot of time away from the city. There is still a small town feel among certain groups, and professions but it's changed a lot these last 8 or 9 years. I can't extend the comparison too much further, but Calgary is evolving into Toronto and Regina is evolving into Calgary.
No, Regina is evolving into a caricature of what Calgary was 10, maybe 20 years ago. Over the last decade, Saskatchewan has undergone a metamorphosis of character. The Saskatchewan of TC Douglas' CCF is dying, if it isn't already dead. It was a great place to live, once upon a time. I loved it. And I want no part of this "new saskatchewan".
