"Where do they get these fascist motherfuckers?"
The Catholic Chruch has played footsie with fascism since the days of Mussolini. Franco, Latin American juntas, Croatia, etc. They see it as a bullwark against "communism" and modernity. So it's not surprising that they choose leaders sympathetic to that point of view.
All those fascist bastards have to do is go to confession and everything is forgiven especially when they donate to the church, like the good catholic boys that they all are.
I've been listening to commentary on CBC and CNN that the first priority of the new guy will be cleaning up the corruption in the Vatican, and that alone may take him the full four years he's expected to serve.
BREAKING NEWS:
Cardinal Marc Ouellet has announced his impending conversion to the Church of England!
"It's become apparent in recent days that the CofE has more prospects for career progression. I seem to have encountered a glass ceiling in my current organization. I don't expect this move to be without controversy."
Unfortunately, the interview was given to a local newsletter in La Motte, QC - I'll provide links once it's picked up by the MSM. There was no reported comment yet from the Prince of Wales.
I'm an Anglican, and rest assured that we don't want Ouellet in our ranks. Besides, we have a lower mandatory retirement age* than those at the RCC.
*In Canada I believe it's 65 for priests and deacons, and 70 for bishops and archbishops. Probably the same for the C of E.
Er, Boom Boom, maybe I misspoke. He's looking for the top job - you know, not that lowly Primate position - he's talking about the Supreme Governor. As I'm sure you'll agree, there's no retirement age connected with that position.
Pope Francis... Hugo Chavez approved (and apparently appointed)
Did Venezuela's Chavez nudge Christ to pick South American pope?
Late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez's influence may have stretched into the afterlife and had a hand in Christ's decision to opt for a Latin American Pope, acting President Nicolas Maduro said on Wednesday.
"We know that our commander ascended to the heights and is face-to-face with Christ," Maduro said at a Caracas book fair. "Something influenced the choice of a South American pope, someone new arrived at Christ's side and said to him: 'Well, it seems to us South America's time has come.'"
Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina was elected in a surprise choice to be the new leader of the Roman Catholic Church on Wednesday, the first non-European pope in nearly 1,300 years.
"He (Chavez) may also call a constitutional assembly in Heaven at any moment to change the (Catholic) church on Earth so the people, the pure people of Christ, may govern the world," Maduro added of his mentor.
You just can't make shit up like this if you tried...
You just can't make shit up like this if you tried...
It’s often the case that people in mourning will blabber on about how great of a person their loved ones were. Remember Jerry Falwell's extended eulogy spread across all the major American networks and talk shows. Listening to all of that you'd think he should have been pope. Hitchens was the only one who told it as it was.
Seeing how Nicolas Maduro is and Hugo Chavez was Catholic (did you know he received the last sacraments before he died?) it could have very well happened that way if he wishes to believe that.
Well if you want to hedge your bets about heaven that's the best way to go.
I think this highlights why trying to interpret another culture especially when one cannot speak the language is fraught with problems.
Also the political language, including the heritage of liberation theology among very humble people. I do speak Spanish, and am nominally Catholic (ha, ha!) but although my family was poorish and at times very poor by first-world standards, I wasn't born in a tiny mud hut and sent to live with Abuela because my parents simply couldn't afford to feed me. The degree of abject poverty in Venezuela was simply an outrage. Chávez made his way in life, through the military, but could speak to the poor masses and make them feel pride and power. Maduro is also of very popular origins, and was a bus driver by trade.
We have to remember that Maduro is using imagery here. Also seeing what can be positive for poor South Americans in this election, though he is well aware of Papa Francisco's reactionary views on many issues.
Frankie's made a "back to the Gospels" declaration - that was not just an attack on the Catholic left (actually many of them would agree on "back to the Gospels" but interpret them differently) - it was also and perhaps primarily a jab at the Evangelicals, who are making such inroads in many Latin American countries, and who are in many ways far more reactionary than the Cathos. Many were formed outright by the efforts of USian preachers. One ghastly aspect of the Evangelicals is their utter contempt for indigenous beliefs and practices. Friends of mine were United Church missionaries in Guatemala. It was a revelation to Indigenous "base communities" to encounter Protestants who did not worship the mighty dollar and who respected the Mayan culture.
Yes, "evangelicals" on mission work in Latin and South America usually work to export American hegemony but under the belief that their intertwining of how they perceive the Gospel and conservative values are the best solutions for people in the global south. They usually have a religious fervour reminiscent of the hosts of 100 Huntley Street's David Mainse - very narrow-minded focus that their way is right and that God is on their side.
I've known United Church and Anglican missionary workers who are far more mainstream and definitely to the left of those evangelicals. And without the bloody narrow-mindedness.
(I grew up in the United Church and changed over to the Anglicans later in life)
The Vatican is lashing out at “defamatory” and “anti-clerical left-wing” forces seeking to discredit Pope Francis over his actions during Argentina’s 1976-1983 military junta.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/vatican-lashes-out-at-defamatory-and-a...
Yes, I've certainly known very good Anglican missionaries as well, not to mention some very courageous Catholics whose outlook is very much at odds with Benny's and Frank's. Happened to mention this couple because I know them well and was following their work with Mayan base communities in Guatemala; people who are horribly persecuted by their "own" government as well as one of the poorest places in the Americas.
Some of the Evangelical Guatemalans won't even wear the beautiful Mayan woven clothing both men and women wear in Guatemala. They wear US t-shirts...
One of the Catholic nuns I know worked for many years in Haiti.
Yes, there are more Catholics who are left-leaning than most folks realize. I studied Liberation Theology in Toronto - which grew out of Latin America Roman Catholic liberation movements - with mostly Roman Catholic seminarians, but also with a smattering of United and Anglican church folks. Still have a small collection of Liberation Theology texts here. I was a member of the forum that brought liberation theologian Jose Miguel Bonino for a series of lectures in Toronto.
I'm not 100% sure but I think it was Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict) who ordered the crackdown on liberal priests including liberation theologians. And under the oversight of Pope John Paul II.
Indeed the Dobie Pope, or Cardinal Rottweiler as he was known, was the person whose job it was to either silence or excommunicate liberation theologists.
On 25 November 1981, Pope John Paul II named Ratzinger as the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the "Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office", the historical Roman Inquisition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Prefect_of_the_Sacred_Con...
So my memory is indeed intact! Thanks for that, K. 
CBC: Vatican denies Pope Francis collaborated with Argentinian junta
The criticism must be hitting home in order for the Vatican to issue this statement.
I think they figured that when they got away with a Pope who was a former member of the Hitler Youth, they wouldn't have to deal with attacks on other far right sympathies.
CBC: Vatican denies Pope Francis collaborated with Argentinian junta
The criticism must be hitting home in order for the Vatican to issue this statement.
So they're "lashing out" at the "anti-clerical left-wing" are they? Well, let them lash away. The anachronistic, misogynist, colonialist fascists can lash out all they like - they'll be screaming and whining throughout their entire descent into complete irrelevancy. May that day come soon. Amen.
I'm liking the twitter hashtag #dirtywarpope. Not too many people using it yet, but I hope it becomes popular!
I see they're trying to rehabilitate DirtyWarPope with stories about how one of the Jesuits he betrayed has now "reconciled" with him. Oh, so I guess it's all okay then, that he stayed silent during the dirty war and discouraged priests from practicing liberation theology, and "withdrew support from the two slum priests" who were then kidnapped and tortured.
It makes sense that one of his victims has reconciled with him - after all, they belong to a church that preaches forgiveness. So it doesn't surprise me that his victim forgives him. But that's a far cry from the victim exonerating him of his actions. There's nothing in that article, no quote from his victim that says he didn't do it.
I can't find the CBC link online yet, but it's all over the Internet in other places, for example:
WP: Vatican defends Pope Francis against Argentina ‘dirty war’ allegations
ROME — The Vatican vigorously defended Pope Francis on Friday by seeking to discredit accusations that he failed to oppose and may even have collaborated with Argentina’s feared military junta during the so-called “dirty war” against left-wing activists.
The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, departed from his recent good cheer since the pope’s election to excoriate the criticisms in the press. He called the accusations against the former Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who served as a Jesuit provincial superior and then archbishop of Buenos Aires, stale and the work of “anti-clerical left-wing elements to attack the church [that] must be decisively rejected.”
- snip -
Lombardi pointed out Friday that no courts had ever formally accused Bergoglio of wrongdoing and that one of the Jesuit slum priests who was kidnapped in the case in question had earlier in the day issued a statement saying the two had reconciled.
I have no idea if this has any traction or not, we'll have to wait and see what develops.
I have to write to my friend C. from Argentina, a former refugee from the dictatorship, who is now back in her country of origin (visiting friends and family, clearing up some administrative shite, worrying about her seriously ill brother, and despite that, enjoying being back somewhere it is warm now and where wine is cheap).
And congratulate her on the recent exploit of a great Argentine.
I am of course referring to futebolista Lionel Messi, the hero of all short people, who marked FOUR goals against Milan in a recent game.
On top of the rest of it, my friend C. is a Lesbian...
So far I haven't read or heard any anti-semitic comments about investigative journalist Horacio Verbitsky (the Junta, among its other charms, was virulently anti-semitic and meted out "special treatment" against Jewish disappeared, getting old Nazis in on the fun).
I've been listening to clips by Argentine and Chilean singers; remember that these Condor group dictatorships were gearing up for phoney wars upon each other about some crag off the coast of Patagonia while shipping political prisoners to each other's dungeons. Nothing like a little patriotic fervour for the masses, eh?
Uncomfortably Comfortable - by Howard English, CIJA
http://www.cija.ca/community-partners/toronto/uncomfortably-comfortable/
"....This shared philosophy is one which we're sure Pope Francis will keep in mind while expanding beyond South America the wonderful, warm relationship that he nurtured with Argentina's Jewish community. Now that's a comforting thought."
Heh, great link NDPP. Here's an even more hilarious excerpt:
There I was, a resolutely Jewish resident of the GTA, together with the majority of Toronto’s five and a half million Catholics, riveted to the TV, transfixed by the site of so many red robed cardinals greeting the new Pope Francis, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio.
Ummmmm, hey Howard, there ain't that many Catholics in Ontario...
Well, if that is true, that is a point in Frankie's favour. Argentina has a very important Jewish community, and there have been some very ugly incidents of violent antisemitism there. The "special treatment" of Jewish disappeared, of course (the percentage of Jews among the disappeared was far higher than their percentage in the Argentine population, in part due to a good number of activists, but the fascist presence played a role too) but also the pogrom of La Semana Tragica, a huge massacre of striking workers but also many new Eastern European Jewish immigrants, in the neighbourhood where they had settled, in 1919. Believe it was actually the same week that Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht were murdered, so far away in Berlin...
There is also a significant Arab community in Argentina, mostly Lebanese and Syrian.
But I believe that the president still has to be a Catholic, and Carlos Menem, whose family was Muslim, converted. It's cool to be an atheist now, like Cristina Kirchner, but I guess you still have to be a Catholic atheist...
Read Página 12 for progressive commentary in the wake of the conclave, if you read Spanish.
World Jewish Congress Head Praises Pope Francis
http://www.jewishjournal.com/religion/article/world_jewish_congress_head...
"...he will strengthen the Vatican's relationship with Israel."
With the glut of news coverage, for some reason they mamaged to miss (or ignore) this story:
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/15/pink_smoke_at_the_vatican_women
Pink Smoke at the Vatican: Women Demand a Voice in Catholic Church Led by "Old Celibate Men"
Its easy to find lots of old men in the Vatican hierarchy however celibate ones seem to be a different matter.
I did hear that story somewhere. Think it was at Radio-Canada.
The Damning Documents That Show New Pope DID Betray Tortured Priests to the Junta
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294580/special-report-damning-d...
"Priest said Pope spred rumours and made him target to death squads
Claimed Pope also told regime he collaborated with guerrillas
Report says priests seized by 200 armed troops, drugged, tortured and held for five months then dumped naked in a field..."
Heh, great link NDPP. Here's an even more hilarious excerpt:
There I was, a resolutely Jewish resident of the GTA, together with the majority of Toronto’s five and a half million Catholics, riveted to the TV, transfixed by the site of so many red robed cardinals greeting the new Pope Francis, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio.Ummmmm, hey Howard, there ain't that many Catholics in Ontario...
How do you rivet a person to a tv? Wouldn't the rivets break the screen?
How do you rivet a person to a tv? Wouldn't the rivets break the screen?
It's a metaphor. Think crucifixion.
How do you rivet a person to a tv? Wouldn't the rivets break the screen?
It's a metaphor. Think crucifixion.
How do you rivet a crucifixion to a tv?
And, is riveting less painful than having your "eyes glued to the screen"?
Sure he was. Argentina was about to legalize same-sex marriage, so for the first time in his miserable life, a light went on: "Hey, maybe we can head this off by having same-sex civil unions!" His fellow bishops weren't as diabolical as he was, so they told him to fuck off. Unsurprisingly, Bergoglio never said anything but evil against same-sex anything in public, so this all just counts as hearsay. But if it's true, it shows that he may be smarter and more dangerous than his more medieval predecessors.
ETA: Here's a link, Boom Boom:
[url=http://www.salon.com/2013/03/20/pope_francis_civil_unions_pragmatist/]Sa...
But many who witnessed Bergoglio’s public hardline persona — even while he quietly pushed for compromise — are not as convinced by the new pope’s apparent pragmatism:
“The reality, beyond what he may have said in private meetings, was that he said some terrible things in public,” Esteban Paulón, president of the Argentine Federation of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transsexuals, said. “He took a role, in public, that was determinedly combative.”
In addition to supporting widespread protests against gay marriage, Bergoglio called the political battle to defeat the measure “God’s war” and denounced gay parenting as “the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”
Holy Father, my arse.
On CNN right now: NYT reported in 2010 that the new Pope, while he was a Cardinal, signaled to his Argentine bishops that he was open to same-sex unions - not same sex marriage - but still a huge surprise.
I'll look for an online link.
Here it is: On Gay Unions, a Pragmatist Before He Was a Pope
Thanks U. I posted the NYT article above.
excerpt:
Faced with the near certain passage of the gay marriage bill, Cardinal Bergoglio offered the civil union compromise as the “lesser of two evils,” said Sergio Rubin, his authorized biographer. “He wagered on a position of greater dialogue with society.”
In the end, though, a majority of the bishops voted to overrule him, his only such loss in his six-year tenure as head of Argentina’s bishops’ conference. But throughout the contentious political debate, he acted as both the public face of the opposition to the law and as a bridge-builder, sometimes reaching out to his critics.
“He listened to my views with a great deal of respect,” said Marcelo Márquez, a gay rights leader and theologian who wrote a tough letter to Cardinal Bergoglio and, to his surprise, received a call from him less than an hour after it was delivered. “He told me that homosexuals need to have recognized rights and that he supported civil unions, but not same-sex marriage.”
The NYT link I posted is too gentle on the guy. I like U's link better.
I think Bergoglio's the same guy who, just before the end of the Civil War, tried to get the South to give the slaves Sunday off.
Yes, I think he is very bright and very wily. I never understand the logic according to which a same-sex union "cannot be considered a marriage". I'm in my 50s, so VERY unlikely to have children. But nobody would tell me and a male partner that our later-life union "connot be considered a marriage".
Not that I want to get married, but I might be willing to do it for immigration or emigration purposes if it were the only way I could be with a partner from another country. Otherwise, I see no point whatsoever, here in Québec.
Really Lagatta? There are some differences
I appreciate the new Pope's interest in the poor and avoiding the usual disgusting pomp. Of course, I do not think social justice is something you leave to charity. Rights and social obligations are not optional donations. Societies need social objectives, accountability and full participation.
Then there is gender equality and the Church has nothing to say on that so...
It's not just the doctrine and dogma of the church that presents problems but also the Vatican as a city-state. It's hopelessly corrupt. The only solution is to dismantle the whole thing and start over - but fire the bureaucrats that got the system into the mess it is today.
Sadly, the entire conclave of cardinals are just fine with things as they are. 
Well, obviously Italian republicans wanted all that ... almost 150 years ago. Stendhal described Vatican corruption ... and what a big money-maker a New Pope (as in New Coke) was about 200 years ago, and as for Boccaccio, he described this corruption in the 14th century and made (or more likely purloined) a wonderful Jewish joke about it.
Boccaccio portrayed many sympathetic Jewish and Muslim characters in his stories; he was of merchant stock and had no doubt met these people and other denizens of the Mediterranean on his travels. One of the stories speaks of a Jewish colleague, who, warned of all the corruption and violation of the Commandments he would find in Rome, travels there and decides to convert anyway, as Christianity had prospered despite all the muck, so it must have had some Divine backing.
Of course, some of the Reforming churches, in particular Reform (the Calvinists) may have been less corrupt but they made life for mere mortals very dreary indeed.
Then again, the Reformation eventually gave us that stock tragicomic character known as the disgraced evangelist(later, the disgraced televangalist).
Lets not forget that nasty misogynist sect that the English people had to endure before they were thrown out of power. You know the ones who fled the wrath of their persecuted neighbors by moving to Turtle Island to found the U.S. of A.
That kind of nasty Protestantism led to my ancestors being subjected to this by the Pilgrims' Bostonian descendants.
The "Planters" who stole the Acadians' land after the expulsion gave Canada both Robert Borden and Richard Bennett.
The history of "religious" peoples is often a murderous one. all in the name of the Prince of Peace.
US 'Feminist' Nuns Sent Back to the Cloister by New Pope
http://rt.com/news/pope-francis-crackdown-nuns-902/
"Pope Francis has reaffirmed his predecessor's rebuke of the main organization of US Catholic sisters - The Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) - accused by the Vatican of 'radical feminism' and of failing to obey church teaching..."
