More Korean War Games

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The polls I have read point to the people of the peninsula wanting unification.  It's the leadership of North Korea and the US that are opposed to it.  Neither of those two actors want to lose control over the region and neither are interested in an independent democracy in Korea.

I have no problem with this… I’d like to add that of those two evils most South Koreans view the current North Korean regime as the biggest obstacle to reunification; the USA can be dealt with later. I’ve had some very interesting conversations with some of my extended Korean family members about reunification. You would be quite surprised as to their opinions on the matter and yes; I do get an ear full about the USA.  

Of course we haven’t even mentioned the other 500 pound gorilla sitting in the room… China.

Passing the Buck on North Korea

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KOR-01-270313.html

"...The conclusion of a peace treaty, the normalization of diplomatic relations, as well as the suspension of economic and financial sanctions are steps that only the US can undertake..."

The Dangers of War: What is Behind the US-North Korea Conflict?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-dangers-of-war-what-is-behind-the-us-no...

"The US is well aware North Korea's statements are not backed up by sufficient military power to implement its rhetorical threats, but appears to be escalating tensions all the same. What's up?"

The US claims it is a democracy but its citizens say we can't do anything about the out of control military roaming the planet.

On this board I accept you as a voice from America I don't accept you as a spokesperson for Koreans. Maybe part of the problem is that you can have a few conversations with some people from a country and then think you can speak on behalf of the citizens of that country and even go as far as to presume to be an "honest broker"  and then speak on my behalf as well. Since you have just misinterpreted my voice in the worst possible light I must presume your reading of your Korean contacts is just as flawed. Your government doesn't seem to listen it just attacks with disinformation and half truths. That is not democracy that is arrogant imperialism. The British used to think they understood the people of India because they had lots of contact with the Indian nationals who supported the empire and many of those wanted to immigrate to Britain.  In Canada and the US we take the same type of peoples views as the views of their compatriots and then deem all the others who don't want imperial rule as terrorists

I said the idea that the US could be dealt with later is silly. I said that because historically it has never happened but you and other Americans think it is possible despite also believing that you are powerless to do anything about your own military. I live in a neighbourhood with a significant Korean immigrant population.  While I like to hear their views when they share them I also understand that they are the ones that fled South Korea because they didn't want to live in their own country.  So to me even that community, despite the far better perspective they have than a Canadian or American, is likely not the majority opinion of the people who did not immigrate to the centre of the imperial empire.

China Mobilizes Military on 'High Alert' Over North Korea Threats

http://rt.com/news/chinese-military-korea-alert-184/

"China has started mobilizing military forces around the Korean peninsula in response to rising tensions that follow recent threats by North Korea to launch missile attacks against its southern neighbor and the United States..."

Fidel, the US president cannot hide having an affair but  no one as of yet blows the whistle on the inside 9/11 job?

sounds plausable

It's not hard to believe that both north and south Koreans want to unify but are being stopped by the US and NK government. Peacetime military budgets  with no bad guys are a little stricter than when citizens wake up every morning afraid of being invaded.

US Provokes Two Koreas to Besiege China (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/02/296224/us-targeting-nk-to-besie...

"...So they are targeting North Korea right now but the overall strategy is one of surrounding China and Korea with military bases that stretch from Japan to the Philipines including Taiwan and the direct deployment of US naval and air forces all over the region,' said Richard Becker of the US-based antiwar ANSWER coalition..."

US Escalates Military Tensions Over North Korean Nuclear Program  -  by Alex Lantier

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/03/kore-a03.html

"Washington is continuing to escalate military tensions in the global crisis triggered by the US confrontation with North Korea over its nuclear program. All of the regional major powers are carrying out military exercises amid rising fears of a war fueled by the US 'pivot to Asia' aimed at containing China, North Korea's main ally and protector..."

OathofStone wrote:

Fidel, the US president cannot hide having an affair but  no one as of yet blows the whistle on the inside 9/11 job?

sounds plausable

There are many examples of government secrets kept for long periods of time. We learned of a few secrets the Sovs kept under wraps with the advent of glasnost.

And everyone and their dog knows that the CIA has meddled and intervened in very many FOI requests fregarding just about everything under the sun that agency, and the NSA, was involved in since their creation in 1947. Corona spy satellite, launched in 1960, is but one example.  Public knew nothing about it for 35 years, and there were 12 rocket failures in attempts to launch. I think they must have worked overtime to hide those events from the public, because nobody knew. Nada, zilch. Prolly not even successive cosmetic leaders in the White House were privy to these kinds of military secrets. It is a military government afterall - the republic was overthrown in 1947 with signing of the National Security Act. What they have in the states now and ever since is a military dictatorship with the Joint Chiefs of Staff created after the war.

Don't think for a minute that the U.S. Government doesn't have secrets - they do, and they've murdered people to protect those state secrets. Ever hear of the government declaring state secrets privilege on evidenciary proceedings in courts of law? They have more ways of dodging transparency and accountability to the American public than Libby's has beans.

OathofStone wrote:

It's not hard to believe that both north and south Koreans want to unify but are being stopped by the US and NK government. Peacetime military budgets  with no bad guys are a little stricter than when citizens wake up every morning afraid of being invaded.

U.S. Air Force levelled every major city in the North by 1953. 3 million Koreans dead.

McArthur threatens to incinerate millions of human beings in order to draw China and Russia into a nuclear war. And then McArthur gets the hook after the UN asks Truman, Who's in charge here?

Who's afraid of who, do you think? Fear and democracy are two incompatible themes. Wherever the U.S. Military and elections are involved, the process is typically marred by violence leading up to, during, or electoral mood is set by previous acts of violence. Violence and fear, fear and violence are the CIA's/U.S. Military Government's tactics for guaranteeing that democracy never takes root in countries its corporations have profit interests.

Seoul Says N Korea Missiles Don't Target US as Washington Shows Military Build-Up

http://rt.com/news/pyongyang-trolling-seoul-provocations-321/

"South Korea's defense minister announed that North Korean ballistic missiles are not targeting US territory as the American showcase of power in the South provokes Pyongyang to resort to a last ditch nuclear argument. The South's Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin refuted media reports that Pyongyang has moved its intermediate-range missiles to its east coast to strike the US mainland, Yonhap News Agency reported Thursday..."

Korean Course (and vid)

"Any small mistake can turn into catastrophe"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T_a3NCcfvw

North Korea Likely To Launch 'A Relatively Small Attack That Won't Leave Many People Dead'

Quote:

The most probable outcome of all these tensions is a low-level "tactical" strike from North Korea.

But don't worry, it'll be " a relatively small attack that won’t leave many people dead," Sue Mi Terry, a Columbia University professor who served as a senior analyst on North Korea at the CIA from 2001 to 2008, told Wired's Spencer Ackermann.

Analysts in the military, political, and intelligence fields have all pretty much said the same thing: Kim Jong-Un has painted himself into a corner, and the only way out is a gunfight.

Luckily they also say it won't be World War III.

I hope this is wrong. It might start with that industrial zone NK and SK share. NK has ordered all SKs out by April 10th. We'll see... if they stop some from leaving it could get ugly. Some political analysts on Korean TV are speculating this could be the test for the new South Korean president that every president has to go through.

Perhaps NK will do another weapons test and use that to save face.

US Protection Racket Root of Korea Conflict  -  by Finian Cunningham

http://nsnbc.me/2013/04/01/us-protection-racket-root-of-korea-conflict/

"The conflict emanates from Washington and is perpetuated by Washington. Why? To justify what would otherwise be seen as simply outrageous US militarism in the Asia Pacific hemisphere, and in particular a criminally aggressive agenda towards the main geopolitical targets of Washington - China and Russia.

That so-called 'quality' news media such as the BBC, New York Times and The Guardian can get away with seriously presenting this situation in terms portraying the US as a benevolent force is an astounding feat..."

Hey, Bec - good for you for having the energy to take these guys on.  It never ceases to amaze (and depress) me how a vocal minority in the Canadian left - usually so vigilant as to the protection of basic human rights - and so rightfully outraged about even the most modest of abuses to one of our own - so quickly, keenly and actively defends some of the worst dictators (Kims in this thread, Assads in an adjoining one) who continue to do the most horrific things to their own peoples. 

At its best, in times of international crisis, the Left responds actively and energetically in solidarity with oppressed peoples. Sometimes, this response is muted by isolationist voices. ("Yes, its a problem. Its just not our problem.")  And then there are the cases where apologists prevail and we are accordingly shamed by our acquiescence.

How and why does this happen? My sense is that the simplistic thinking and oppressor-apologist sentiments that we see so often in these international threads reflects a form of geo-political nostalgia...  a sort of 'Intelligent Design' approach to global politics. 

I say this because much of it seems rooted in a desire to return to a time when the world was so much simpler and so much clearer...  think back to the bi-polar nature of the Cold War that defined us for 50 years. But darn it all, suddenly the Berlin Wall came tumbling down, all this globalization stuff started to happen, now all this talk about BRICS countries, Islamic power, a multi-polar world.  What is going on???

Admittedly, the world is getting pretty damn complicated.... but some of us will insist on clinging to the belief that surely somewhere out there is The One All-Powerful One hiding behind the curtain, pulling all those levers ....  And - aha! - I betcha its the CIA!  (Wall St, whatever).

Time to move on, folks. The real world already has.

Sherpa read some American history and books on imperialism.  The US is not and never has been a force for good in the world.  Look at what they did to the people of Iraq just for starters in the post Cold War period.  How can you believe that the people of Damascus want their city leveled. If they stopped bullying the world the conflicts would be reduced immediately.

I would suggest you stop reading just MSM reports and broaden your mind.

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I've been laying low in this thread because of it's absurdity.

But beyond U.S. Imperialism (which is not the only force at play here) there are plenty of examples to show that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend, nor benign.

You have been here for a long time. 6979. Find me a cite where I ever said North Korea was benign or that Assam was not a dictator.  Spare me your stupid platitudes.

I just find it absurd when people want other people to have their schools, hospitals and utilities all razed to the ground in the name of "democracy.". That is what happened in Iraq and Libya. No one who lived in either of those countries asked to be "saved" in any such manner.  The Syrian people had a referendum on a new political process and constitution. It had a higher turnout than in a Canadian election and they said yes to a new constitution.  However the foreign backed terrorists and their mercenaries said no way its an Islamic state with us in charge or its chaos. I presume that if the terrorists would allow the electoral process to work then Assam would be gone. The ballot box is the better way to find out not sending arms as our apologists for imperialism believe.

Someone said they went to see that Hollywood movie recently, Olympus Hath Fallen,  and there it was on the big screen -

[size=18]NORTH KOREANS INVADE AMERICA![/size]

No not giant tarantulas, nor nuclear-fueled gigantic ants, nor siniister Rooskies, nor-never Al CIA'da terrierists.

NUKULAR-POWERED NORTH KOREANS!

North Korea benign? Puh!

Tell it to the hand.

The Duty To Avoid A War in Korea - by Fidel Castro

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/reflections-i/reflections-5abril.html

"This is about one of the most serious dangers of nuclear war since the October Crisis around Cuba in 1962, 50 years ago..."

oops!

kropotkin1951 wrote:

sherpa-finn wrote:

All people deserve their rights to self determination. (And someone claiming the moniker of Kropotkin should know as much.)

I believe in the right of self determination and that is why I want the US and its murderous allies to be reigned in. The cheap shot about my moniker is uncalled for and childish.

Reigned in how far?

Do you think 'merica should close all bases outside of North America and keep all their troops within North America?

Would that include their warships?

Interesting outlook.

Is it safe to conclude too then that you believe if an American (or by extention Canadian) citizen is captured, taken hostage, held against their will without legitimate reasons that a US military intervention or rescue attempt should be out of the question?

Rescue should only come in the form of negotiations?

I'm not trying to paint you in a corner or anything. I'm trying to understand your perspective about Americans and their footprinton the world.

If a country mounted a rescue mission against Guantanamo bay I'd cheer them on. Why not?

Same goes with your Bradley Manning example.

Iran does not have the international footprint that the US does. They also do not have bases all over the world.  Do you think the US should pack up and withdraw complete out of South Korea?

OathofStone wrote:

I'm not trying to paint you in a corner or anything. I'm trying to understand your perspective about Americans and their footprinton the world.

 

If a country mounted a rescue mission against Guantanamo bay I'd cheer them on. Why not?

Same goes with your Bradley Manning example.

Iran does not have the international footprint that the US does. They also do not have bases all over the world.  Do you think the US should pack up and withdraw complete out of South Korea?

I would prefer if the US citizens reeled in their government and forced them to shut down Guantanamo and give the base back to the rightful Cuban owners.  The same goes for Bradley. I would hope that the people of the US would deal with their governments slide into complete fascism. I would not want any outsiders to attack.

Yes I think that the US should leave all its bases around the world. Hell I would even like them to leave Nanoose Bay.

Wow, George Galloway is not very bright when it comes to Korea.

From your articleabove, NDPP:

Quote:

Perhaps to Kim Jong-un the military escalation to nuclear war is only one big joke, but to the US it is increasingly appearing very serious. And perhaps this is precisely what the Pentagon wanted all along?

Except for the obligatory allusion to conspiracy theory, I agree completely. I think though, that there is good reason to treat this a bit more seriously than a game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

NDPP wrote:

US Secretly Deploys B-1 Strategic Bombers, E-6 'Doomsday' Planes Near North Korea

Yeah, the deployment was such a secret it got posted here on babble...LOL

the secret came out when an investigative reporter monitoring call signs and air-force traffic put two and two together,  as is made quite clear in the article and justifes its title. CAW!

Are those Raven CAWs or Segul CAWs?

South Korea Asks US For Nuclear Support

http://rt.com/news/skorea-wants-nuclear-support-532/

"...During a trip to the United States, a powerful South Korean politician has suggested that his country needs nuclear weapons of its own - and not just to intimidate North Korea, but also to send a strong message to China."

US Calls For 'Counterprovocation' Measures Against N Korea

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/04/08/297183/us-urges-more-forceful-p...

"The US and South Korea have prepared plans to respond 'more forcefully' to North Korean threats of launching retaliatory strikes against the two allies..."