We still haven't read one coherent argument for propping-up a bunch of political rejects with taxpayer handouts. They should get in line for taxpayer handouts with the rest of the corporate welfare bums in Canada.
I have no idea whatsoever what patronage and gold-plated pensions for old line party hacks has to do with promoting progressive discussion.
Why not open-up basic rights and women's right to vote or universal health care to "healthy" debate while we're at it? There is nothing progressive about Canada's old line party political clique aka the senate. This is ridiculous.
Either the 21st century or the senate should go gently into that goodnight, one or the other.
Fidel you are misrepresenting this discussion.
The Senate as amended in the manner being discussed would mean the current bunch of hacks etc. would be gone. The way of appointing them would be gone, the PM's power over them would be gone, the political relationship between parties and the Senate would be gone, the powers would be changed, the salaries would be changed. The only thing being kept is the chamber, the fact that there would be representation from across the country-- the things constitutionally mandated.
As for your swipe about arguments you don't like not being coherent there is little to say except it is certainly not appropriate here.
The comparison between women's rights and universal healthcare is not only bogus it borders on personal attack as it implies those who do not agree with you are not being progressive.
We in fact all agree that the Senate as it is must go. The difference is that some are willing to discuss (without necessarily making a decision yet) the idea of taking the useless present chamber and making something positive out of it. Give the heavy tilt we are seeing to lack of representation or poor representation of many groups in government and the increasing power of the PMO there is something to discuss here. I thin the House of Commons also is due for an overhaul as well. There is a serious deterioration in the democracy we have (and it was never perfect to start with). Looking at an opportunity to improve the situation seems more than reasonable and certainly not deserving of smears.