TO-TTC Shooting: "This Doesn't Sound Like Something That Should Be Happening in a Free Society."

This is a disgusting act of police violence.

If you're in Toronto tomorrow, please try to attend this march/vigil:

Sounds fitting, although I thought we had abolished the death penalty.

They make it sound like a disicpliary thing but the reality is all cops involved in a shooting are suspended with pay while a SIU investigation goes on.

I've watched the videos several times, and this was massively incompetently handled.   I am experienced in Nonviolent Crisis Intervention, and while my certification has lapsed, I used to instruct the course for my agency. (CMHA Toronto) Also, I have probably more practical day to day experience than this Cop, given that they said he was a 6 year veteran. I have been at the pointy end of a knife with less backup, a less secure situation, and no weapon other than my skillsets. What happened the other night was a huge massivley incompetent badly handled cock-up resulting in a death. There were just so many things obviously badly done. Having said that, I have worked with, and stood beside police officers who had and used very impressive skills in crisis de-escalation.  I know for a fact that the training is there, but it's probably just a one day thing, and not emphasised much.

He will claim the guy started to come at him. If a guy has a knife and is less than 25 feet from you, he will stab you before you can shoot him if he comes at you. (mythbusters actually just tested this) 

So the only safe claim is he thought or saw he was starting to come at him with the knife and he reacted.

And the taser guy just reacted more slowly (or had to draw the taser and then fire) which is why he was tasered after being shot.

I cant see any other defense other than panic and fear which would explain why no one else there fired their gun which you would think they would have done if he really had started coming at them

I am so thankful that someone had a video of what happened.  I only wish that the person had waited a week or two before posting the video.  That way we would be able to find out if the police version of what happened matched what was recorded on video.

I was reading a police release about the murderer,I mean,officer who shot this kid and I almost puked...They had to emphasize the fact that he's a 'family man' and the 'father of a new born baby'...It's as if this officer is the real victim.

I usually frown on union busting but the Brotherhood has to go.

It doesn't have anything to do with the police using excessive force but is it true this man initially pulled a knife on a female passenger and made sexually threatening gestures to her?

I haven't read too too much about this story. Personally I carry a decent sized pocket knife. If the police are speaking to me I will inform the police I'm carrying a knife and twist my hips to show them where it is.  I'd like to think if I had a knife in my hand and there were police around I would drop it right away, is there any references of someone being so scared that they don't think to drop what's in their hand when confronted by police?  If this mans blood pressure was up and adrenaline was going he might not even realized what he was doing.

I know people think all police carry tasers but in my home town only supervisors do, I wonder which police on the scene had tasers.

I listened to one of the passengers on the streetcar being interviewed and he said the guy was threatening people after one woman screamed and ran to the front. He moved towward the passengers with the knife and his arm stuck out straight with it. He demanded no one leave but everyone fled accord to the wtiness and the cameras show him being the last passenger to leave, then the driver then after a minute the cops and shots. Another witness(the one with the original video posted to youtube) said the kid was taunting the cops while they yelled at him to drop it. But they do not say what he said so how do they know it was a taunt?

The taser user may have just been slow on the draw, acting independantly of the shooter (and would have been a supervisor since regular cops dont get tasers)

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/07/31/montreal-cote-st..., down the street in Montreal:[/url]

Keep in mind that the suspect in this case had actuallly fired at police and was a threat, but was taken alive. The young man in Toronto was not.

Food for thought.

Just what I was thinking - and then either randomly kill the hostages, or else possibly try to ransom them off in exchange for caches of WMD.

Same here! As luck would have it, the only casualty was the perp himself! All in all, a pretty clean operation.

I wonder how the English bobbies would have handled the situation since they do not carry firearms and therefore do not shoot people?  I also wonder how many bobbies have been seriously injured since they do not carry firearms?  Are their death rates higher than elsewhere?

I like that idea. Sorta like a probation right? Give them a year working with people to get a better feel for their temperment.

Have there been any updates on this case?  Any explination for shooting and tasering a man who was already shot and on the ground?

I am shocked, please but yet skeptical any conviction will happen

Sorry to talk like a conspiracy theorist, but do you think they took notes from the George Zimmerman trial? Why not lay a show-stopper of a charge, so long as there is little chance that it is going to stick?

... and they get that extra point when people start screaming about the end of civilization if police can't be free to protect us.

As for those who are happy to see this charge, well, perheps they'll be mollified by knowing that the prosecuters tried really really hard.

I'll be satisfied if they just treat him like any normal worker - suspend him without pay pending the end of the judicial process. That will make the rest of the armed thugs think twice. Haven't seen any report on that aspect yet - has anyone?

ETA: Actually, if a worker were charged with a murder which had no connection with their employment, whether remanded or not, they would immediately be suspended without pay. If the employer had enough information (not proof of criminal guilt - just on a "balance of probabilities") to determine that the worker had committed a serious work infraction, they could fire the worker then and there. In this case, that's obviously an option open to the police services. But suspension without pay would be automatic in the real world.