Woman Scalded by Hot Tea @ Tim Hortons

13 posts / 0 new

Mon, 2013-09-30 09:36

Francesca Allan

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/woman-scalded-by-tea-wants-regulation-of-hot-drinks-1.1702212

This seems eerily familiar (McDonald's case a while back). Although she hasn't filed a lawsuit yet, I'm sure she will. I'm curious about a couple of things: (1) How did she burn the back of her leg, etc. as opposed to her lap, which would make more sense; and (2) How did the lid magically pop off in a collision? If it was in a cup holder, as she says, then I wonder if she didn't put the lid on correctly. Hot beverages are hot; that's why we call them hot. Anybody would know that you take a chance when you "drink" and drive.

Mon, 2013-09-30 12:17

infracaninophile $infracaninophile's picture$

Francesca Allan wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/woman-scalded-by-tea-wants-regulation-of-hot-drinks-1.1702212

This seems eerily familiar (McDonald's case a while back). Although she hasn't filed a lawsuit yet, I'm sure she will.

She has made it clear she is not interested in filing a lawsuit, but does want to see changes in the regulations.

I saw an extended news item on this a few weeks ago, where interviews with various scientific and other third-party experts were included. Several consensus facts emerged:

(1) There is no legitimate reason for coffee, tea or any other beverage to be served that hot(80-90C). Although it is standard practice, it is well above the temperature that will cause third-degree burns (69C) -- in effect, it's a hazardous material as handed to the customer.

(2) The potential for severe and life-changing disfigurement or injury is real and unjustified.

(3) While the beverages may need to be prepared at a high temperature, they do not, and should not, need to be served at that temperature. (You might boil water to use for disinfecting wounds, but you don't pour boiling water on the patient).

(4) Tim Hortons hot beverages are served at more than 20C above the point there they cause third-degree burns, and are far too hot for customers to swallow with even relative safety. Tim Hortons is not unique, most fast-food emporia follow the same protocols because they are not required to do otherwise.

(5) It's time for regulation of temperature in serving hot drinks. The customer should not be handed a life-threatening substance.

Here's an abstract from a Pub Med item that goes over some of the factors involved:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18226454

As for this particular case:

-- the woman was not driving, she was in the front passenger seat and put the cup in the cup-holder on her left when it was given to the driver (her husband) at the window. She did not remove the lid. If it was improperly placed on the cup, it was TH staff who did so.

-- she was not burned on the back of the leg, except where the liquid flowed down and backward. It spilled into her lap, along the left side and thigh. Because she has CP, her initial sensation was temporarily dulled but the skin all peeled away like paper and she had major 3rd degree burns.

-- the spillage was caused by a collision, not the fault of the passenger. This sugggests that the extremely hot substance is even more hazardous for a driver, who might lose control of the vehicle in such a situation, should it spill on him or her.

This woman's bringing the issue forward is a positive step IMO. It suggests the regulations do need a second look, and so does the awareness of the public about the possible hazards.

Mon, 2013-09-30 17:43

Paladin1

infracaninophile wrote:

(1) There is no legitimate reason for coffee, tea or any other beverage to be served that hot(80-90C). Although it is standard practice, it is well above the temperature that will cause third-degree burns (69C) -- in effect, it's a hazardous material as handed to the customer.

What about if someone has a 20 or 30 minute drive to work. By the time they get to work the beverage would be cold.

Mon, 2013-09-30 18:23

wage zombie

infracaninophile wrote:

(1) There is no legitimate reason for coffee, tea or any other beverage to be served that hot(80-90C). Although it is standard practice, it is well above the temperature that will cause third-degree burns (69C) -- in effect, it's a hazardous material as handed to the customer.

I am not opposed to regulating the heat of served beverages. However one reason that coffee is served that hot by a chain like tim horton's is that lots of people order, say, 4 creams in their small coffee. If they use the same coffee for everyone, then those getting black coffee are always going to get their drink served at a hotter temperature than those getting cream or other additions.

Mon, 2013-09-30 19:13

Boom Boom

Paladin1 wrote:

What about if someone has a 20 or 30 minute drive to work. By the time they get to work the beverage would be cold.

That sounds crazy to me. Who expects coffee to be hot after 20 minutes???

ETA: get a thermos, morons.

Mon, 2013-09-30 19:21

Sineed

Hot drinks drinks are hot. I'd hate to see places giving out lukewarm beverages because some people were stupid or unlucky.

What about if you make tea at home?

BoomBoom wrote:
ETA: get a thermos, morons.

That's what I have to do, as a bicycle commuter. Most places in Toronto even give me a discount because I bring my own container.

Think of getting burned by tea in a paper cup as an environmental tax.

Mon, 2013-09-30 19:28

Francesca Allan

infracaninophile wrote:
-- the spillage was caused by a collision, not the fault of the passenger. This sugggests that the extremely hot substance is even more hazardous for a driver, who might lose control of the vehicle in such a situation, should it spill on him or her

I'm pleased to hear she's not contemplating a lawsuit; that wasn't clear from the piece that I read. Curious, though: If the spillage was caused by a collision, couldn't she just as easily be going after (a) the driver of the other car; or (b) the driver of the car she was in; or (c) the manufacturer of the cup holder?

Mon, 2013-09-30 19:37

Boom Boom

I have a metal single-cup thermos which I used to take with me before I was on the coast and driving upwards of 50 miles on a Sunday. They cost about $3 and I still have mine - now over 20 years old and like new.

Mon, 2013-09-30 22:24

genstrike

I'm not crazy about the temperature that beverages are often served at. I grab a coffee, and it's too hot to drink for a good 10 or 15 minutes, and even then you have to start with little sips. Sometimes, especially at placed like Tims where they don't have the sleeves, it's almost too hot to even carry. So, I'd be happy with the serving temperature taken down a notch or two.

Tue, 2013-10-01 11:22

#10

NorthReport

Probably served by a foreign worker because Canadians dont have the skills to work at tim hortons

Tue, 2013-10-01 11:46

#11

Paladin1

I'm not a fan of people drinking coffee while driving (or eating) because I believe it is just as distracting as texting. I want to scream and shout when I see people rolling up the stupid rim of their coffee cups, while driving.

As far as regulating the tempature of hot beverages, it's a sound enough idea. There probably isn't that much of a requirement for the beverages to be so hot but let me ask this.

How popular would regulating the tempature of beverages be with the average consumer *if* it meant that

1. the price of the drink went up in order to pay for new machinery that regulates the tempature to a standardized level; and

2. wait times increased in order to make the beverage a certain tempature OR say the server was not allowed to give you your coffee if it was too hot and you had to wait until it cooled to a certain temp?

Tue, 2013-10-01 13:28

#12

Bacchus

Plus it is clear from the article that the places are making the temp for tea at the correct steeping temperature for it.

Unless as posted above , you want to wait around for 15min or more for your tea to be made and safe and lukewarm

Wed, 2013-10-02 12:31

#13

jas

Paladin1 wrote:

How popular would regulating the tempature of beverages be with the average consumer *if* it meant that

1. the price of the drink went up in order to pay for new machinery that regulates the tempature to a standardized level; and

2. wait times increased in order to make the beverage a certain tempature OR say the server was not allowed to give you your coffee if it was too hot and you had to wait until it cooled to a certain temp?

My guess is that existing equipment already accommodates different temperature settings.

Just bought some chai tea at a Tim's last night, and brought it into the car I was using, putting it in the only cup holder available, right beside my thigh. I can totally see how such an accident could occur. I think the lid in question could have come off even if properly sealed.

I had milk in my tea, and it was a good 15 mins. before I could drink it. But I wouldn't have wanted it served at a lower temperature. I've had lots of crappy, tepid restaurant tea made with water that hasn't boiled. There is no point serving tea if you can't properly boil and steep it. Even Starbucks, imo, doesn't properly serve tea because it's made with scalding water, not boiled water. It's a selling point to be able to serve good, hot drinks. It is likely consumer demand that drove the temperatures up in the first place. The article points out that even temps as low as 68 C can give third degree burns - that's 20 degrees less hot than industry standard now and 30 degrees below boiling point for water. Any lower than that, and you won't have a product that people want. Imo.