Iowa pastor on Miley, Robin and misogyny

Wed, 2013-10-09 21:29

melissafong.wor... melissafong.wordpress.com's picture

mark_alfred wrote:

Some blogger named Melissa Fong gave an interesting perspective on the letter thing.

I saw an extraordinary amount of traffic coming from this thread to my blog and was interested in seeing the discussion. I'd like to guide people to Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/the-problem-with-all-these-half-naked-pop-stars-is-th...

The gist of the post is that there are a lot of things to criticize and slut-shaming, which is something I feel Sinead did in spades, is NOT one of the things we should be supporting: http://melissafong.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/sinead-oconnor-likes-to-slut... (I wrote that post just after the first one that mark_alfred linked.

Also, @Timebandit : You may disagree with my point of view and critique it as undersupported. But assessing that I haven't tought about the big picture re: sexism and capitalism due to my youth is incredilby condescending.

Wed, 2013-10-09 21:53

#53

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Yes, most young people would think so. But being of an age with Ms O'Connor, I'm used to that. ;)

Thu, 2013-10-10 16:10

#54

Paladin1

The first "big girl" movie I took my daughter to was Miley Cyrus's movie Hannah Montana, back then this was the role model my daughter seen.

Of course she became a big fan, I had to get the posters, school backpack and all that. Now this is her role model.

Is it wrong to feel upset about this as a parent?

Thu, 2013-10-10 17:03

#55

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Depends what you're upset about.

Thu, 2013-10-10 17:23

#56

quizzical

you're wrong paladin. i say it even knowing most people don't like to be wrong even though there's nothing wrong with being wrong.

'cause of your "role model"

i find it upsetting you chose your daughter's role model in the 1st place. and am only slightly less upset you chose a disney character for her to model herself under. it's like choosing mini mouse or pluto for her role model.

not upset at all 'bout how miley looks these days and i've a almost 17 year old daughter.

see the thing is 'bout choosing a plastic image role model for your child and maybe choosing any at all is you'll always let yourself down!!!!! no one is purrfect.....reality is you need to be real with your daughter and then you are the best role model there is.

Thu, 2013-10-10 18:19

#57

Unionist

Wow, right on, quizzical!

Thu, 2013-10-10 19:24

#58

Pogo

I didn't see where he had chosen Hannah Montana for his daughter. My daughter is also a fan of her. In no way though do I see her mirroring her raunchy behaviour. I think young people are far more able than our generation to seperate what they see on TV from what they hold as societal norms.

Thu, 2013-10-10 19:46

#59

Paladin1

I'm wrong all the time, I'm quite okay with it.

If you have a daughter I'm pretty sure you've discovered *you* can't pick who her role model is. Try explaining to a 6 year old that she can't "be like hannah montana". If it was up to me to pick a role model I would pick someone else, trust me.

You're okay with Miley Cyrus's new image, thats fine. Honest question here, would you be okay with your daughter behaving or mimicing how Miley Cyrus acts in her video if your almost 17 year old daughter was at a party?

Fri, 2013-10-11 04:56

#60

melissafong.wor... melissafong.wordpress.com's picture

You people DO realize Hannah Montana is...fictional...right?

And Miley on stage and in media is a version of an entertainment show. Like a vegas show.. the kinds with the women in those sequined peacock outfits.

Some artists are more themselves when they are "on" or private. i.e. taylor swift.. the majority of country artists.. michael buble...

And some artists are all about the show. Lady gaga, niki minaj... miley cyrus circa "Bangerz"

Perhaps there needs to be an honest chat about what is for entertainment/shock value/media versus real life. It's just like teaching youth that magazines are all airbrushed... it's part of media literacy.

I also hate to break it to people... but teens DO act like that at parties. Well, sometimes they do. And they have for a very long time... Like.. just be careful about this syndrome of imagining young women as these virginal delicate porcelain dolls that have now become raging sluts all b/c of the influence of the great Miley Cyrus.. like.. please. That last sentence was sarcasm by the way.

Fri, 2013-10-11 11:24

#61

Pogo

I used Hannah Montana to highlight the Disney version. I thought that was obvious.

Fri, 2013-10-11 15:13

#62

Paladin1

melissafong.wordpress.com wrote:

You people DO realize Hannah Montana is...fictional...right?

What? Next you're going to suggest that there is a reason Clark Kent and Superman are never in the same room together.

Quote:

And Miley on stage and in media is a version of an entertainment show.

Quote:

I also hate to break it to people... but teens DO act like that at parties.

That's true A lot of bad shit goes on at those parties.

When that young girl was assaulted at a party while passed out with people taking pictures I remember people saying "how could this happen, what makes these kids think this type of behavior is okay".

I wondered too up until I read the story about the Frosh video at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax cheering on non-consensual sex with underage girls.

Quote:

b/c of the influence of the great Miley Cyrus.. like.. please.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss how powerful influences can be- see above comment.

[/quote]

Fri, 2013-10-11 16:13

#63

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

No, Melissa, it probably isn't leading to young people actively copying her VMA performance. However, she is contributing to a culture where young women are valued for their fuckability alone, as are all the promoters and enablers who are profiting directly from her antics.

And really, it's on that basis that I wouldn't characterize O'Connors comments as "slut-shaming", although there are some small bits that I am not in total agreement with. Nevertheless, you can make the argument about individual autonomy and doing what one pleases because you're an adult and you have that right - but nobody does anything in a vacuum. We all make choices that have impact on the people around us. When you are someone with a large public profile, you have a much larger impact on the overall culture. Cyrus is helping to create and maintain a rape culture by generating another reinforcement of young woman as sexual object first and foremost and then tie it in with questionable modes of consent or lack thereof... Utterly irresponsible, stupid and short sighted, because we've seen other young women go down that road and it hasn't been pretty in the long run. I don't think it's wrong for O'Connor to have pointed that out.

Fri, 2013-10-11 16:28

#64

melissafong.wor... melissafong.wordpress.com's picture

Pogo wrote:

I used Hannah Montana to highlight the Disney version. I thought that was obvious.

yes, i know- that is why I didn't do a quote-reply. It was just a general note

Fri, 2013-10-11 16:34

#65

melissafong.wor... melissafong.wordpress.com's picture

Timebandit wrote:

I don't think it's wrong for O'Connor to have pointed that out.

I don't think it was wrong for Sinead to point that either and I do agree it's a vile industry. But there are ways to point that out and Sinead did NOT write a letter that respects women and the choices that they make with their bodies whether it's nunnery or overt displays of sexuality. The rhetoric behind how Sinead makes her point is all about the politics of respectability- urging Miley to behave as a respectable woman. As we should know- if you are up to date on some of your feminist politics- "respectable women" is often based on the image of the privileged white woman. I've unravelled this all in my post that you chose to dismiss as immature but don't have the ability to actually challenge me on in terms of content. So I'll leave it at that.

Fri, 2013-10-11 17:04

#66

quizzical

Paladin1 wrote:
If you have a daughter I'm pretty sure you've discovered *you* can't pick who her role model is. Try explaining to a 6 year old that she can't "be like hannah montana". If it was up to me to pick a role model I would pick someone else, trust me.

you said above you took her to the hanna montana movie and after your daughter was all over it. simple really...you could've NOT taken her to the movie and NOT bought into the disney hype. i didn't. so my daughter didn't. you're the adult with the purchasing power.

my parents wouldn't let me get all hyped over any TV characters. accent on tv. instead i was out protesting clear cuts, nuclear power and anti-war.

Quote:
You're okay with Miley Cyrus's new image, thats fine. Honest question here, would you be okay with your daughter behaving or mimicing how Miley Cyrus acts in her video if your almost 17 year old daughter was at a party?

don't go putting words in my mouth 'bout miley's new image. not once did i say i was ok with it. i said i didn't care 'bout the image change. both are sexualized objectification of first a girl and now a woman. one is just more acceptable to you than the other. really they're no different.

Sat, 2013-10-12 10:38

#67

Aristotleded24

I haven't really paid much attention to this thread, because I don't watch TV, I don't watch the VMAs, and I don't care what Miley Cyrus or anybody else does. It really boggles my mind that people would pay attention to this crap. And to the "but it's such a bad thing for the children! Think about the children!" crowd, I say, "turn off the damn TV, and actually parent your children instead of expecting everyone else to do so for you. And I agree that this type of thing is ubiquitous and that even if your children haven't seen it that others around your child have, but if more parents would just start standing up to it, then it would be a great deal easier.

[Rant over]

Sat, 2013-10-12 17:45

#68

abnormal

Paladin1 wrote:
If you have a daughter I'm pretty sure you've discovered *you* can't pick who her role model is. Try explaining to a 6 year old that she can't "be like hannah montana". If it was up to me to pick a role model I would pick someone else, trust me.

The thing is, your daughter's role model was "Hannah Montana" NOT "Miley Cyrus".

Miley is not Hannah anymore. She's made that very clear.

Sat, 2013-10-12 18:20

#69

abnormal

abnormal wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:
If you have a daughter I'm pretty sure you've discovered *you* can't pick who her role model is. Try explaining to a 6 year old that she can't "be like hannah montana". If it was up to me to pick a role model I would pick someone else, trust me.

The thing is, your daughter's role model was "Hannah Montana" NOT "Miley Cyrus".

Miley is not Hannah anymore. She's made that very clear.

If in doubt

Sat, 2013-10-12 18:22

#70

abnormal

For the record, Annette was too wholesome to make the list.

Sat, 2013-10-12 19:50

#71

quizzical

abnormal wrote:
your daughter's role model was "Hannah Montana" NOT "Miley Cyrus".

Miley is not Hannah anymore. She's made that very clear.

whaddya say??

*deep breath*

miley was never hanna montana. hannah montana was or is a character just like mini mouse and pluto are. hannah montana exists only on digital recordings or film and will ever only exist on those mediums.

miley is busy creating a new character for herself. she's too old now to play to the disney young sex objects business model.

Sun, 2013-10-13 09:29

#72

abnormal

quizzical wrote:

abnormal wrote:
your daughter's role model was "Hannah Montana" NOT "Miley Cyrus".

Miley is not Hannah anymore. She's made that very clear.

whaddya say??

*deep breath*

miley was never hanna montana. hannah montana was or is a character just like mini mouse and pluto are. hannah montana exists only on digital recordings or film and will ever only exist on those mediums.

miley is busy creating a new character for herself. she's too old now to play to the disney young sex objects business model.

Duh ...

And that six year old's role model was Hannah Montana. Not Miley.

Sun, 2013-10-13 12:21

#73

quizzical

....the point is.....role models (if you believe in them) shouldn't be characters from disney or anywhere else in the fabricated land of for public consumption media and parents need to make the distinction to their kids and to themselves too....apparently.

why aren't people looking for role models for their kids outside of pop culture if their going to look outside their own family or social network? if you don't look to someone real for a role model then you can't whine when a fabricated role model has to change to another fabricated character to try and advance a career.

it's kinda like you drive where you look. if you're not looking to where you wanna go then you don't go there. the vehicle goes where your looking.

Tue, 2013-10-15 19:33

#74

Aristotleded24

quizzical wrote:
....the point is.....role models (if you believe in them) shouldn't be characters from disney or anywhere else in the fabricated land of for public consumption media and parents need to make the distinction to their kids and to themselves too....apparently.

why aren't people looking for role models for their kids outside of pop culture if their going to look outside their own family or social network? if you don't look to someone real for a role model then you can't whine when a fabricated role model has to change to another fabricated character to try and advance a career.

it's kinda like you drive where you look. if you're not looking to where you wanna go then you don't go there. the vehicle goes where your looking.

This episode of the old TV show [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYt0DzuHU00]Dinosaurs[/url] really illustrates this point.

Tue, 2013-10-15 20:01

#75

Pogo

My wife took my daughter to see Steven Lewis. Funny thing but it was still Hannah Montana that she wanted plastered on her wall. Just because she liked her didn't mean she had to begin copying her every act. I have a problem with parents making every moderately important choice for the children. Sometimes you need to trust your kids enough to let them make a mistake.

Tue, 2013-10-15 23:25

#76

6079_Smith_W

Charlotte Church calls out the music industry for its treatment of women in her John Peel Memorial Lecture last night:

http://www.nme.com/news/charlotte-church/73218

(audio file included)

Wed, 2013-10-16 09:37

#77

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Good for her. I'll try to listen to it complete later.

Would love to hear the Billy Bragg speech, too!

Iowa pastor on Miley, Robin and misogyny

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