No rises to 61% according to the BBC
Bye, bye Scotland, we hardly knew ya!
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:46
#152
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:47
#153
radiorahim
North Lanarkshire voted Yes 115,783 to 110,922
South Lanarkshire voted No 121,800 to 100,990
These are two of the larger areas.
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:48
#154
Guardian: No leads 56.2 to 43.8 at 11.43 EST:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014...
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:48
#155
radiorahim
Perth & Kinross voted No 62,700 to 41,475
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:51
#156
At this point I don't think anyone can hold much hope that there is any chance of yes prevailing. Looks not as close as people thought it would be. Glasgow in a few minutes will settle the question- if the margin is not big enough a win there won't matter.
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:53
#157
Voter turnouts in the local areas are very high by the way...most areas in the 85-92% range. Lowest apparently was around 75% in Glasgow.
It's inconceivable to me that some people would not vote in such an important (and close) election. But evidently, 25% of voters in Glasgow just don't care...
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:55
#158
radiorahim
Glasgow Yes 194,779 to 169,347
Scottish Borders No 55,553? to 27,906
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:57
#159
Looks not as close as people thought it would be.
As soon as I saw the London bookmakers betting against "Yes," I was pretty certain that "No" would win. Betting on political events is remarkably predictive.
Thu, 2014-09-18 23:58
#160
radiorahim
North Ayrshire narrow win for No 49,016 to 47,072
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:01
#161
It's inconceivable to me that some people would not vote in such an important (and close) election. But evidently, 25% of voters in Glasgow just don't care...Voter turnouts in the local areas are very high by the way...most areas in the 85-92% range. Lowest apparently was around 75% in Glasgow.
Or they are too torn.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:07
#162
radiorahim
A 75% voter turnout would be high in Canada these days.
South Ayrshire just came in No 47,000 to 34,402 Yes
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:08
#163
The YouGov exit poll had it at 54-46 No
It's 53.7-46.3 right now
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:10
#164
BBC back to 55-45 for No
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:10
#165
radiorahim
East Ayrshire No 44,400 to 39,762 Yes
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:11
#166
The thread title needs to be changed, it would appear.
(Not that Scotland was ever going to vanish).
If Cameron doesn't come through with the extra powers, the next referendum will pass.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:18
#167
This is not even going to be close - the BBC has already forecast a "No" victory
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:19
#168
The Yes has to carry the remaining local authority areas by massive margins to prevail...not really seeing how it could pencil out.
If Cameron is to avoid another referendum, he needs to avoid getting too Anglo-Saxon about it when he makes his "victory" speech-and to make sure his MPs don't gloat too horribly.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:21
#169
radiorahim
Unless there's a massive victory in places like Edinburgh and Fife this is pretty much done.
It's interesting listening to the commentary. In particular the rhetoric on the "No" side is at times word for word identical to that of the No side during the Quebec sovereignty referendums.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:21
#170
Still, at least 45% will have voted yes when all votes are in...so Cameron has no mandate to call this a vote for the status quo.
If he gives in to his party and doesn't give the Scots Parliament the extra powers, this will all happen again.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:25
#171
In particular the rhetoric on the "No" side is at times word for word identical to that of the No side during the Quebec sovereignty referendums.
And the result of "a no vote is a vote for change" will be identical.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:47
#172
radiorahim
And the result of "a no vote is a vote for change" will be identical.
Mostly I assume. But to be fair the first Quebec referendum kickstarted the 1982 Constitution...the one useful thing being the Charter of Rights & Freedoms.
Fri, 2014-09-19 00:59
#173
radiorahim
Aberdeenshire No 108,000 to 71,000
Edinburgh No 194,000 to 124,000
Argyll & Bute No 37,000 to 26,000
No has very clearly won.
Fri, 2014-09-19 01:22
#174
Catchfire
evidently, 25% of voters in Glasgow just don't care...
As might be expected, Glasgow is mentioned in the WHO report, appearing twice in a table of male life expectancy, showing that a man living in Lenzie can expect to reach the age of 82 while his counterpart in Calton has the average life expectancy of just 54.Picking up on the WHO report and a 2007 map of Britain’s millionaires, which listed Glasgow in seventh place (five places ahead of Edinburgh), journalist, Julien Brygo, met with some of the beneficiaries of the city’s inequality. Interviewing a handful of wealthy Rotarians, Brygo found that “The clichés of the Victorian era – that the rich are beautiful, wise and generous, the poor lazy and alcoholic – persist”.
Fri, 2014-09-19 01:29
#175
The thread title needs to be changed, it would appear.
(Not that Scotland was ever going to vanish).
If Cameron doesn't come through with the extra powers, the next referendum will pass.
Whatever happens, this is hardly the last word.
Fri, 2014-09-19 01:43
#176
The thread title needs to be changed, it would appear.
(Not that Scotland was ever going to vanish).
If Cameron doesn't come through with the extra powers, the next referendum will pass.
Whatever happens, this is hardly the last word.
More devolution to Scotland is a virtual a certainty now. That will likely lead to more devolution toward Wales and Northern Ireland and maybe lead to the establishment of a new national parliament for England. It will be interesting to see how the party manifestos in the next election in 8 months support the process of devolution.
Fri, 2014-09-19 01:49
#177
More devolution to Scotland is a virtual a certainty now.
One would think so, in a reasonable world.
On the other hand, given the barking on Cameron's right that he is offering too much, and the rise of UKIP, and what I am sure (despite the wooing) is some animosity, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up going the other way.
It's not like we haven't seen that attitude on the part of some here in Canada.
Fri, 2014-09-19 02:07
#178
More devolution to Scotland is a virtual a certainty now.
One would think so, in a reasonable world.
On the other hand, given the barking on Cameron's right that he is offering too much, and the rise of UKIP, and what I am sure (despite the wooing) is some animosity, I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up going the other way.
The right will fight against a more asymetrical political system for the UK but they would likely support devolution in exchange for the establishment of an English Parliament.
Fri, 2014-09-19 10:56
#179
he Scotland Referendum: Who Voted How And Why?Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/19/2014 - 07:13
The following post-referendum poll from Lord Ashcroft does a good summary of who voted how and why. However, the most telling distinction is the following:
- Voters aged 16-17: YES: 71%; NO: 29%
- Voters aged 65+: YES: 27%; NO: 73%
How will last night's vote look like in 5, 10 or 15 years when today's 17 year olds are Scotland's prime demographic?
Fri, 2014-09-19 11:27
#180
Prob not much different once they lose their idealism and have to work
Fri, 2014-09-19 13:11
#181
Salmond out,
not holding on for "good government" like René in 1980:
Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond has resigned after voters in Scotland rejected independence in a tense and highly charged referendum campaign.
“For me as leader my time is nearly over but for Scotland the campaign continues and the dream will never die,” Mr. Salmond told reporters in Edinburgh.
Fri, 2014-09-19 14:41
#182
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
Fri, 2014-09-19 15:24
#183
Catchfire
lol lagatta!
Fri, 2014-09-19 16:10
#184
Salmond out,
not holding on for "good government" like René in 1980:
But similar to Parizeau
Fri, 2014-09-19 16:22
#185
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
It is cod's will.
Fri, 2014-09-19 16:23
#186
Fri, 2014-09-19 16:25
#187
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
It is cod's will.
They must carp diem
Fri, 2014-09-19 18:20
#188
Salmond out,
not holding on for "good government" like René in 1980:
But similar to Parizeau
Without the boozesoaked bigotry, of course.
Fri, 2014-09-19 18:22
#189
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
It is cod's will.
They must carp diem
And tell the trout, the whole trout, and nothing but the trout.
Fri, 2014-09-19 19:35
#190
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
It is cod's will.
They must carp diem
And tell the trout, the whole trout, and nothing but the trout.
Or it will all flounder
Fri, 2014-09-19 21:01
#191
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon may well take over from Salmond: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/19/alex-salmond-resignation...
Is there a new rule that First Ministers must be named for fish?
It is cod's will.
They must carp diem
And tell the trout, the whole trout, and nothing but the trout.
Or it will all flounder
And we'll all get a splitting haddock.
Fri, 2014-09-19 21:36
#192
It is important to remember that Parizeau had to resign after his sodden outburst. That discourse was NOT considered acceptable in his party.
Fri, 2014-09-19 21:57
#193
From what I've read (I wasn't yet here at the time), Parizeau had always planned to resign if "No" prevailed. Which isn't to say anything about whether the PQ would or wouldn't have kicked him to the curb.
Fri, 2014-09-19 22:22
#194
It is important to remember that Parizeau had to resign after his sodden outburst. That discourse was NOT considered acceptable in his party.
I know. And the comparison was to the individual, not the party.
As to Scotland, it is possible that past bigotry played a role in the outcome in one area...the Highlands. Highland Scots remained, in significant number, Catholic, while the lowlands majority went Presbyterian. The early SNP was accused of playing to anti-Catholic sentiment(the old joke among Scots Catholics was that SNP stood for "Sorry-No Papists"). That doesn't reflect the character of that party now, a significant number of whose msp's are of Italian Catholic and other immigrant Catholic ancestry(there's a large Italian-Scottish community now, which explains, among other things, why there is a Scottish race car driver named Dario Franchetti and a Scottish actor named Peter Capaldi, among others). But it may explain, in part, why often impoverished Scots in one of the most traditional areas of the country ended up voting "No".
Fri, 2014-09-19 22:32
#195
Although I dont necessarily feel independance was a solution, its not unusual for the poor to vote against their best interests
Sun, 2014-09-21 22:28
#196
Mon, 2014-09-22 13:26
#197
as a former newspaper copy editor, I would say this headline is a bit misleading :
Salmond: We don’t need referendum for independence
yes, one of his party's leaders says a referendum is not needed, while Salmond says the ref is one of several tools for advancing the cause.
... not sure he said a majority equals immediate mandate for independence:
although a referendum was his preferred option, achieving a majority at the Scottish Parliament was another way of reaching his party’s goal....
Mon, 2014-09-22 13:34
#198
Prob not much different once they lose their idealism and have to work
Unacceptable on a progressive board. It's one thing to suggest that as these young voters gain more life experience that their perspectives will no doubt change along with said experience. To use phrases like "lose their idealism" and "have to work" however dismisses their own lived experiences and suggests a tone of superiority on your part because you've lived longer and know oh-so-much more about life than them and that their own perspectives on life don't really matter, or at least aren't as important as older people.
How many times has this crap been directed at younger voters who express an opinion? You should see some of the online trolling directed at young voters who went NDP in 2011. That's just one example.
Mon, 2014-09-22 14:51
#199
David Cameron is hosting a summit of senior Conservative MPs at Chequers to discuss plans to limit the Commons voting rights of Scottish MPs.
Let me know if that civil war breaks out!
Mon, 2014-09-22 16:13
#200
I dont think its unacceptable, its just true. Without a lot of the respponsibilities that comes with working and having to provide for yourself, the fear tactics used dont work. When they are beaten down by responsibilities they lose idealism and become subject to fear
Its the rare strong ones who dont or who regain their idealism due to a epiphany of some sort. Which is basically what happened to me
I Prob should have explained that instead of just a pithy comment
Mon, 2014-09-22 17:04
#201
Fair enough, Bacchus, and thank you for your elaboration. I'm still a bit confused by your first paragraph.