Thats my 2 cents.
On the positive side, at least you didn't leave anyone out.
Diversifying babble
Sat, 2014-09-20 07:37
#52
Sat, 2014-09-20 08:23
#53
In that post she simply gets the math wrong by giving the NDP the wrong number of seats.
Yeah, its this kind of rudeness that shouldn't be tolerated. The nerve. You know, I've said some nasty, nasty stuff about the NDP over the years, that even I've regretted saying sometimes, not because I felt it wasn't true, but because I start to wonder about the place where some of it comes from. The pitchforks came out on occasion, I was called disruptive, a negative influence, nonsensical, etc, but that kind of stuff was few and far between over time. It was nothing though compared to the sustained invective we're seeing against Pondering for being a Liberal. Maybe we need to attract a few downright conservatives or something to share the load. I mean, I could probably try posting in the NDP threads more often as a distraction, and a bit of variety from the norm of Pondering's 'liberalizing,' but it would turn out like anarchy and ultimately do little to improve the tone of things around here for everyone.
More disturbing than even that however are the gang-ups on people. I'm not trying to sermonize here, but this is not what flash mobs are supposed to be for.
Sat, 2014-09-20 10:56
#54
Sineed, actually we have recently loosened up on the moderation - neither Catchfire nor I intervene nearly as often as we used to. The vast and overwhelming number of complaints we get in the abuse queue receive no response because we assume that people can work out their own differences. Sometimes that happens and sometimes things go to hell. When threads, in general, begin to unravel into vicious accusations and name-calling, we'll intervene for the sake of the discussion. We'll also intervene when someone is being relentlessly bullied, or if babble policy is directly violated.
Some people want more moderation, some people want less. Few are satisfied with either, so the above serves as our own loose guideline. Even-handed moderation is sometimes difficult, primarily because there are hundreds of threads here, dozens of very active threads, and two very part-time moderators who donate much of their time. Also, even if we could be everywhere all the time we're human. We have biases, we make mistakes, we have bad days.
As for this particular thread, I'd prefer it if participants didn't use it as a place to call people out by name. Nor should this be the place to debate ideologies - rigid or otherwise. There are lots of threads where you can do that to your heart's content.
Babble has changed a great deal over the years, and it's time for it to change again. Let's get the women back, the people of colour back, the original peoples back. Let's make babble the best it's ever been!
/cheerleading
Sat, 2014-09-20 11:13
#55
Sineed, actually we have recently loosened up on the moderation - neither Catchfire nor I intervene nearly as often as we used to.
/cheerleading
Good thing too because you two very nearly destroyed the place - running off many informed and anti-imperialist posters in particular. These seem to have been replaced largely with right wingers and reactionaries.
Sat, 2014-09-20 11:35
#56
Just couldn't resist, could you.Sineed, actually we have recently loosened up on the moderation - neither Catchfire nor I intervene nearly as often as we used to.
/cheerleading
Good thing too because you two very nearly destroyed the place - running off many informed and anti-imperialist posters in particular. These seem to have been replaced largely with right wingers and reactionaries.
Sat, 2014-09-20 12:13
#57
We'll this whole bizarre stream began with Pondering stating that the NDP could have saved the Martin gov. by voting with it. (Post 177, Here's Stephen Harper's Plan to Win the 2015 Election). In that post she simply gets the math wrong by giving the NDP the wrong number of seats. Sean and others point this out and then rather than admit she is wrong she simply goes off in another tangent and talks about the role of the NDP in sponsoring the vote. Many side issues are discussed some of them important, some not but what of course gets lost in this discussion is Pondering's original false statement. Things get surreal when Pondering demands that Sean owes her an apology.That isn't true. I agreed that Sean's numbers were correct in posts 202, 219, 226 and 240.
From post 202 on, (after doing the research I was told it was my responsibility to do,) I made it clear that I was not referring to the vote of non-confidence. That my focus was on the events that led up to that vote, not the vote itself.
I did all the work of gathering the information from multiple articles that I was challenged to do but it made no difference, it was ignored.
You are still here insisting this was all about a single non-confidence vote when it was never about that vote. The vote is not why people held Jack Layton responsible at that time nor since.
Throughout the discussion 7 of you were attacking me personally and repeatedly through mocking and derogatory statements.
From Friday Sept. 12th, 2014
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/09/12/national_child_care_the_pr...
In 2005, it was then NDP leader Jack Layton’s decision to pull the plug on Paul Martin’s minority Liberal government that helped kill the closest thing Canada has ever had to a national child care system.
Excellent historical account of those days and also of earlier NDP history.
http://thewalrus.ca/2006-05-politics/
I am not claiming that Layton was factually responsible for the government falling early and Kelowna, daycare etc. failing. Many people hold Martin solely responsible and they have their reasons too.
What I am saying is that it is a matter of opinion (mainstream and progressive) therefore it was not unreasonable for me to remember Layton being responsible even though I didn't remember the details. Having reviewed what happened it is not unreasonable for me to still believe that Layton should have made the deal with Martin because it would have benefited Canadians. It's not Liberal propaganda.
jjuares,I am not claiming to be some angel that is never abrasive or annoying but I do not deserve to be vilified as I am being. I'm challenging you to look at the situation impartially.
P.S. This may seem like reviving the personal battles in this thread but I think it is actually a pretty good case study of the dynamics on this board that have to change. The hostility is relentless.
There are lots of members I enjoy having conversations with and some have expressed pleasure in our discussions even though we differ greatly on important issues so it is not as though everyone finds me intolerable.
Actually my account is accurate. Your "admissions"came after derailing the discussions and were of the it's not originally important variety. I don't know how to quantify the importance of the last vote in the scheme of things. I will leave that to you. I do know many people were offended by your initial reaction to your falsehood which was to claim you did not know how to get the numbers and that is how you remembered it so that informed your view of the NDP. And yes people did join in and mock you for that little piece of silliness. I suspect for many people and certainly for me you lost a great deal of respect at that moment and have never recovered from there. I guess for many it could be an example of the power of first impressions.
You are not just abrasive. That would not elicit a response from me. You called another poster a jerk and then defended it because you believed he was a jerk. All of this was followed by a pious lecture about how people should not engage in personal attacks! Hey, if I called you a dishonest, hypocritical, narcissistic and offensive troll it would be alright as long as I really really really believed it?
Sat, 2014-09-20 12:21
#58
In that post she simply gets the math wrong by giving the NDP the wrong number of seats.Yeah, its this kind of rudeness that shouldn't be tolerated. The nerve. You know, I've said some nasty, nasty stuff about the NDP over the years, that even I've regretted saying sometimes, not because I felt it wasn't true, but because I start to wonder about the place where some of it comes from. The pitchforks came out on occasion, I was called disruptive, a negative influence, nonsensical, etc, but that kind of stuff was few and far between over time. It was nothing though compared to the sustained invective we're seeing against Pondering for being a Liberal. Maybe we need to attract a few downright conservatives or something to share the load. I mean, I could probably try posting in the NDP threads more often as a distraction, and a bit of variety from the norm of Pondering's 'liberalizing,' but it would turn out like anarchy and ultimately do little to improve the tone of things around here for everyone.
More disturbing than even that however are the gang-ups on people. I'm not trying to sermonize here, but this is not what flash mobs are supposed to be for.
Slumber jack
It was her follow up including demanding apologies from others for daring to disagree with her and calling others names that are rude. I did mention it was a whole "stream". In other words many posts not one line which you cherry picked.
Sat, 2014-09-20 12:48
#59
Well imagine a babble without fucked up mean spirited moderation. Imagine babble more welcoming and more diverse. Imagine more emphasis on ideas than political partisanship. Imagine a place without trolls clearly picking fights with people across the board and then claiming that they are the ones being persecuted. Imagine a place where people aren't there simply to promote Justin Trudeau 24-7 and then act all wounded when people get fed up with it or challenge them on minor things like facts. Even imagine where the advertisements of the NDP are not at every step as well and NDP is not presented as this thing you have to be blindly loyal to. Imagine a community more sophisticated than the talking points of two political parties. Imagine where there are distinct and different voices who fight sometimes but mostly engage with respect.
Here the moderators seem to think that moderation is a blunt stick and the only question is how often to use that blunt stick. They could consider that it is not about volume -- you need moderators being involved but you need them to be impartial, you need them not to add to fights but to calm them down and to offer direction instead of abuse. The direction should be steady, consistent, polite, respectful, impartial. But saying that here is talking to the deaf. Here it will be presented as we backed off, waited for all hell to break out and then came in and beat people up. What else do you want us to do-- beat people up sooner?
Anyway, the choice is not Babble or nothing because all that I have asked you to imagine exists. It is called enmasse.ca. It is only missing one thing and that is traffic. So why not help them get traffic while the moderators here determine how often exactly to dole out the right amount of biased abuse? At the end of the day enmasse is quieter but one reason it is quieter is the partisan crap that is here is not there, the sarcastic sniping is not there. The difference between here and there when it comes to real interesting posts wanting to question and explore is only a handful of people. If 3-4 more people who want good discussions from here went there then that place would have way more interest than here.
Years ago you could call what I am saying as dramatic. It isn't. Nobody is leaving the internet. There are alternatives. I said I was limited to Twitter without babble. I am not. All I need to do is promote and help bring traffic to enmasse.ca. I am not being negative at all. The challenge of making enmasse a more viable place with more traffic is far less than making this place less fucked up.
And while there is a place where you can have a discussion, babble will probably always be here so if you want the thrill of a fight, some partisan head bashing between NDP and Liberal. If you want piles of anti Liberal and anti NDP threads and if you want the excitement of bolts from the blue from moderators with their own anger issues playing god then by all means there will always be a babble.
My fault for not pursuing positive options rather than negative shit - by that I mean positive for me. For many others babble is positive for them. And why shouldn't they have babble exactly as it is? And why pretend that the moderators don't like the way it is. For some it may even be fun. A little like a video game where you get to go in bare your sword and crack heads. Who am I to say that does not give people relief in their daily lives.
I can fix things for me. I am not letting anyone down. I am not stopping to write. There is a place to go to. I appreciate the people I have interacted with. I really hope to see them minus the shit at enmasse. Some of the people who left here who are missed here are already there. I am not withholding writing at all. I am avoiding bullshit when I feel like I need to avoid bullshit which is not a negative thing to do in life.
I am not quitting babble. If I wake up one day and feel like I need some abuse, I'll just come here. If there is something I want to write in front of whatever is left here I'll come here. But if I don't want to deal with the shit I don't have to. So sure I'll be around some times. This is not black and white. But I want a spend more time in a more welcoming place where the moderators don't have to debate how often is the right amount of shock treatment and the trolls don't run the board when the moderators are in a "good mood."
You can ban me if it makes you feel powerful but if you don't, I'll drop in now and then if I feel like it. I have a place to be the rest of the time.
enmasse.ca -- worth a look. Babble without the Bull.
Look forward to seeing some of you there -- many of you are there already. Good day to you.
And I'll come around here from time to time as well-- no worries.
ETA: not bringing any fights from here over to there or to social media. I won't trash this place on social media or anything like that but I will consider supporting enmasse becuase it looks like a great community including some of the best of what has been here over the years.
Sat, 2014-09-20 13:34
#60
This is the heart of it, imv. Babble is a highly intolerant and ideologically rigid board with the most aggressive moderation I have encountered anywhere. If you want to attract diverse communities, you have to accept that they will have diverse opinions. For example, a lot of people from marginalized communities support Rob Ford, an avowed public racist, because they feel shut out from mainstream political discussions.I've said it before and I'll say it again: loosen up on the moderation and make it more even-handed. If I'm wrong and it doesn't work, you can tighten it up again.
C'mon. Give it a try.
I don't think strict moderation is the problem. It's the no rules admosphere that has poisoned the place and leads to accusations of unfairness.
It is possible for views to be too right wing or too intolerant or actively counter to basic progressive positions. One example is the abortion debate. On babble it is a woman's right to choose and no debate on that is tolerated. On most topics the line cannot be drawn so clearly.
Many posters have tried to draw lines:
Anyone not NDP or left of the NDP is not progressive.
Anyone against the legitimization of prostitution is not progressive.
Anyone not 100% pacifist is not progressive (and is a war monger).
Any discussion of gun laws is not progressive unless it is to condemn all gun ownership.
Any criticism of union behavior is anti-union and unprogressive.
Any transgressions are justification for personal attacks and misrepresentation. Any attempt at self-defence will be reported.
There is a small number of posters that behave this way. Because all the complaints pertain to one poster the impression is left that the target must be the problem. The easiest thing for the mods to do is get rid of the target who is generating all the complaints so appears to be the source of the problem. By the time the target is getting reported they are acting like an enraged bull because they have been fending off direct and indirect attacks so it appears they are indeed the problem.
The board can continue hobbling along dreaming of the golden years as it shrinks.
Members can accept they need to work out some basic rules of civility and enforce them if they want the anarchist approach to board management.
Reporting can be used in a more positive manner, as a means of alerting mods that a thread is going off the rails and quick intervention can calm it back down. Maybe a private PM to a user to alert them that they need to take a deep breath.
Maybe some members of the board could be given voluntary Peace Ambassador status and privately PM a poster, or comment in the thread if it seems necessary just to mention the discussion is getting over-heated. This would help as the mods are part time and not around 24/7.
Members can decide to support a policy of 24 hour cool-off bans that are the equivalent of putting a quarter in a swear jar not some big official thing that could lead to a permanent ban. Don't even call it a ban. Call it a 24 hour benching like in hockey when the players get in a fight. It doesn't have to be humiliating. Some might even decide it's worth a 24 hr benching to let off some steam. Anyone attacked gets one free swipe in return after which any more fighting results in another benching for whomever throws the first punch.
That way the mods don't have to try to figure out who started it.
The trickiest problem is the misrepresentation of arguments both inadvertently and deliberately. Members can help with that too by immediately pointing it out in a non-hostile manner if we see someone's argument being misrepresented. (whether we like them or not). If someone else acknowledges the misrepresentation it's much easier for the person who was misrepresented to not get upset over it.
Sat, 2014-09-20 14:37
#61
I'm still thinking that an online anti-oppression anti-colonialist workshop would be helpful. If enough people are willing, I could try to find funding for a facilitator or perhaps someone would be willing to volunteer their time. It would have to happen over the course of approx. 24 hours to accommodate the different time zones and people's work schedules.
Sat, 2014-09-20 15:48
#62
Timebandit
Sean, EM doesn't need much moderation because there are so few posters. It had more moderation when there was more traffic. So I really don't think it's a matter of EM having the answers Meg is seeking here. I've posted on both sites from relatively close to their beginnings, seen the evolution of them firsthand and there's a fair amount of glossing over in your argument.
In any case, babble HAS been more lightly moderated lately, so I don't think we can lay any malaise at that door alone. I would like to point out that this thread is a great example of some of the dynamics that Meg is trying to counteract. How long did it take before it devolved to a petty bicker about this particular poster or that in this or that thread?
There's not a lot of willingness to look at the big picture, it seems. How about we all drop the personal axes to grind and bouquets to bestow and look at what we could do (as opposed to what your least favourite posters could do) to make this a stronger community?
Sat, 2014-09-20 16:01
#63
Have to agree with Timebandit here. Lots and lots of quite hairy stuff went on at EM in the beginning.
I like EM - don't get me wrong - but it is, to me, unrealistic that simply migrating over there would avoid the issues encountered here.
Sat, 2014-09-20 16:22
#64
Regarding the moderation; yes, it is lighter IMO and yes, I like it. Though really I don't degree of moderation really gets at the roots of the problems. It has changed somethings, but not others.
If I can touch on something Sean said (and sorry for refering to another poster, and kind of touching on philosophy, but I think it might be relevant) - people reacting badly when they get pulled back to square one.
In the first place, it is rarely as simple as that; it's not like we don't have those same differences and disagreements between people who have been here a long time.
But more importantly (and the part I hope is relevant) how can we put the onus on new people to anticipate every mis-step?
You know, not to portay this as classroom situation, because it isn't , but even if it were you can't really teach too much if you just react; teaching STARTS at square one. There will always be new people, and we will always be dealing with this and going back there.
Of course it's not a classroom, and personally I think new people bring as much to the table as those who are here already. And if MegB is correct (and I think she is) that diversity is something we need as much if not far more than anything we might hope to give in return.
In case it isn't clear, I do have some sympathy for the kind of frustration you are talking about Sean; but it is just one side of it. Frustration is one thing, but reacting is something we choose to do or not to do. I have seen some people here and elsewhere display unbelievable patience in the face of what would make regular people like us either get all righteous or explode.
And while it doesn't always happen, I have also seen that patience pay off in the end.
A workshop? Yes I think it is a very good idea
Sat, 2014-09-20 16:30
#65
Sineed, actually we have recently loosened up on the moderation - neither Catchfire nor I intervene nearly as often as we used to.
/cheerleading
Good thing too because you two very nearly destroyed the place - running off many informed and anti-imperialist posters in particular. These seem to have been replaced largely with right wingers and reactionaries.
Actually I was thinking Meg and catchfire were the best moderators babble has had. Meg in particular got rid of an extremely nasty and mean-spirited person her first week on the job. This person had been given a free pass for years because her politics were in the right place, but she used to troll people quite nastily, and drove off all sorts of cool people.
Remember that babble is a recreational activity for babblers. Let's try and have fun. Maybe some silly threads, like there used to be. The ongoing pissing contests are just boring.
Play nice, kids.
Sat, 2014-09-20 18:03
#66
Catchfire
Wow, thank you Sineed. It's awfully nice to hear that. I certainly agree with you that Meg has been especially awesome, often in very challenging situations. (Not to mention it has meant seeing her writing a lot more on the site, which is also excellent!) [/love in]
Meg and I will be meeting to talk about this next week -- although we're always thinking about ways to improve babble -- I always hold out hope that a tech revamp will make things a lot easier to post/share/engage, and there is, we're told, one on its horizon. So I hope it will lower the price of admission for new members who are used to a reddit/twitter/FB type of interaction without disrupting the kind of conversation babble is used to hosting. Obviously we're way behind on that front, but there is such a wealth of knowledge on this site that continues to act as a resource to the Canadian political left.
But community, yeah -- that's the challenge. I used to love the gardening threads, the movie and book threads and so on. So I agree with Sineed that those would be nice. But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.
Sat, 2014-09-20 19:12
#67
But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.
Damn Catchfire, have you been reading Coleridge again?
Sat, 2014-09-20 20:40
#68
But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.Damn Catchfire, have you been reading Coleridge again?
I prefer to believe he's been listening to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AmrIydnXIs]Maiden[/url].
Sun, 2014-09-21 07:28
#69
How about those earlier suggestions about a general or at least partial amnesty?
Sun, 2014-09-21 11:55
#70
@ SJ, @ Meg
To underscore your points, Meg, that diversity is not just a one-way street (as I am pretty sure you mean). When we talk about new people coming here it is not just a matter of them figuring out how to fit in here, but of us hopefully being changed for the better by what they bring. I can think of a few who have run afoul of our attitudes and protocols who weren't your stereotypical right winger by any stretch.
I know there's a lot that is threatening about this. And when one has a seige mentality to begin with, it is easy to focus on those differences. And again, aside from our obvious political differences which will always be there, there is this philosophical divide over whether we have an open door or a closed one - that others must change to fit our mold.
The first and most important step I can see is to try and understand where others are coming from - not the same at all as agreeing or watering-down or relativism.
I know for a fact my position around tolerance is misunderstood by some as opening the doors to an invasion, rather than how I see it - as the only possible way to move forward - and I can only presume I have similar misconceptions about others' values and concerns.
Beyond differences, if there is one thing I think we need to discipline ourselves on it is how we treat each other (as many have said already) - that is to say, making assumptions about others' motives - that they are dishonest or here to make trouble, or control, assuming that they are stupid, uninformed, or fooled simply because we disagree with them. I know pretty much all of us have done this to some degree; it is hard not to when we are in an environment where we have to keep our guard up. And again, rules saying to not make personal comments, and moderators cracking the whip isn't going to make the difference if the culture does not change. But if we tried to be more strict about keeping discussion on the issue, and not on each other - something that is actually irrelevant - I think it would go a long way.
(edit)
Actually responding to Meg's post just before SJ. And in case it isn't clear I hear and agree with you about the inevitable freakouts over the word tolerance, SJ.
Sun, 2014-09-21 12:50
#71
Catchfire
I'm always confused by those sorts of requests because of course very few people would actually require amnesty, since most former babblers to whom most such appeals refer were never banned and can come back any time they like. As for the others, there has never ben any indication that they want back, or that they really enjoyed themselves here while they were here anyway. At any rate, even if I am mistaken, anyone wishing to come back to babble who can't is free to email me or Meg.
But to answer your question, Slumberjack, obviously Stephen Gordon can come back to babble whenever he wishes.
Sun, 2014-09-21 21:05
#72
How about Magoo?
I miss him
Mon, 2014-09-22 05:29
#73
My question wasn't in relation to people who can come back on their own if they so choose. Maybe you're right that talk about an amnesty doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering that we have no way of knowing how many of those it would appy to would want to come back.
Mon, 2014-09-22 07:18
#74
Catchfire, an Iron Maiden fan. Who knew?But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.Damn Catchfire, have you been reading Coleridge again?
I prefer to believe he's been listening to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AmrIydnXIs]Maiden[/url].
Mon, 2014-09-22 07:58
#75
Catchfire, an Iron Maiden fan. Who knew?But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.Damn Catchfire, have you been reading Coleridge again?
I prefer to believe he's been listening to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AmrIydnXIs]Maiden[/url].
Sadly, I don't think even he knows. But as someone who didn't start listening to them until my mid-20's, I firmly believe there are two types of people in this world; Maiden fans, and those who aren't yet Maiden fans.
Mon, 2014-09-22 08:18
#76
Catchfire, an Iron Maiden fan. Who knew?But the deep-seated personal conflicts that get dragged like dead albatrosses from thread to thread -- we really need to find a way out of that. And that's hard, hard work.Damn Catchfire, have you been reading Coleridge again?
I prefer to believe he's been listening to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AmrIydnXIs]Maiden[/url].
Sadly, I don't think even he knows. But as someone who didn't start listening to them until my mid-20's, I firmly believe there are two types of people in this world; Maiden fans, and those who aren't yet Maiden fans.
I'll stick with Norwegian death metal if I need a metal fix. Of course it could be that CF was re-watching Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
Cleese: "Albatross! Get yer albatross!"
Audience member: "What flavour is it?!"
Cleese: "It's fucking albatross flavour!"
Mon, 2014-09-22 11:43
#77
Catchfire
Unless it hasn't been made clear yet, admission of Maiden-fandom is a bannable offence. That goes double for moderators, obv.
Mon, 2014-09-22 12:14
#78
Ahh. In that case, the Shortest Straw has been pulled for you.
Mon, 2014-09-22 14:14
#79
(* From another thread - as requested - Coles Notes for improving babble. *)
A few ideas:
1) Blanket amnesty.
2) [Idealistic] A little less personal animosity, even towards people that you know harbour the worst ideas in the world.
3) [Concession to real world] An unmoderated part of the forum where people can go to town on each other, since it seems to fulfill a deep-seated need.
I should clarify that I don't think blanket amnesty should mean lifetime immunity. I think it's fair to assume that neither posters nor mods are perfect, and so in some cases there could be some benefit from a reset (no, I do not have a Big Red Button available). In some other cases a whole ban/flounce dynamic might start over and that's likely not useful to anyone. So, readmittance on semi-good behaviour, anyone?
Mon, 2014-09-22 15:53
#80
Hi ygtbk! Thanks so much for your suggestions. Here's my feedback:
1) Very few people have been banned and they're always welcome to contact us mods if they wish to return. Some have done so and remain part of the babble community.
2) That would be great, really really great.
3)There's already an unmoderated forum where people can go to town on each other. It's called Facebook:)
I've actually seen the behaviors of some babblers mellow over the years, watched their comments become ever more thoughtful, thought-provoking, with very little by way of hostility. Posters make personal choices about what and how they post. That's what it comes down to, choosing to post thoughfully and respectfully or choosing to be a jerk. Not much us mods can do about it.
Mon, 2014-09-22 16:15
#81
I think we should make Sineed's suggestion a rule. For every serious post you make, you must make one on the silly threads or light hearted ones
Mon, 2014-09-22 16:29
#82
I agree that to be well-rounded posters, we have to make silly or lighthearted comments (I'm still proud of my Scottish fish), or talk about cats, cookery or simply things we see in the streets or nature.
While I do agree about the idea of an anti-oppression workshop, a lot of the models I've seen come from the US and at least here in Québec, I find they fail to take into account some of the important issues facing our society.
Mon, 2014-09-22 16:58
#83
given a free pass for years because her politics were in the right place
I thought this was a poignant observation. This is something common to message forums that drives a lot of moderates and newbies away.
Mon, 2014-09-22 18:00
#84
I'm having a few pints at my favourite pub and thought I'd drop in and say hey.
I haven't posted here in a very long time. However, I've followed this site very closely for years. This is an interesting development.
While I admit that I used to fall fairly right of centre, things have kind of changed over the years and I don't know where I fall anymore.
Lurking here has given me new ideas to ponder, made me angry at times, and has even changed my opinions towards some issues.
I may try posting again one of these days. I'm pretty sure I still wouldn't fit in here, but time will tell.
Cheers.
Tue, 2014-09-23 00:23
#85
Catchfire
a few pints at my favourite pub
Well don't keep it a secret Jaydub. What pub? What beer?
Also, welcome back!
Tue, 2014-09-23 02:02
#86
2) [Idealistic] A little less personal animosity, even towards people that you know harbour the worst ideas in the world.
This is a tall order.
Tue, 2014-09-23 02:22
#87
The ongoing pissing contests are just boring.
They can be tedious thats for sure. But just think of how boring things would be if they weren't going on. There would mostly only be liberal and ndp threads, along with all of the fandom one has to expect. A lot of us get blamed for the tone of the back and forth, but really, how could a quick read of the usual active topics in that regard not set off a rampage? In that sense, the restraint people have exercised over the years has been remarkable.
Tue, 2014-09-23 08:22
#88
Welcome back Jaydub!!
Wed, 2014-09-24 15:12
#89
Will Babbler's receive a precis of this strategy paper?
Wed, 2014-09-24 22:03
#90
I'm still thinking that an online anti-oppression anti-colonialist workshop would be helpful. If enough people are willing, I could try to find funding for a facilitator or perhaps someone would be willing to volunteer their time. It would have to happen over the course of approx. 24 hours to accommodate the different time zones and people's work schedules.
What is that? How does it work?
Wed, 2014-09-24 22:41
#91
That's something we'll have to figure out. We livestream, podcast and do babble election town halls so somewhere in there is a format that works for people.I'm still thinking that an online anti-oppression anti-colonialist workshop would be helpful. If enough people are willing, I could try to find funding for a facilitator or perhaps someone would be willing to volunteer their time. It would have to happen over the course of approx. 24 hours to accommodate the different time zones and people's work schedules.What is that? How does it work?
Wed, 2014-09-24 23:48
#92
I miss Fidel.
Wed, 2014-09-24 23:54
#93
If you miss him, go over to the other place and say hi. It's not like he's gone anywhere.
Thu, 2014-09-25 05:24
#94
Yeah, for babblers who are also at enmasse, we really haven't had a chance to miss him. All the same, if he wanted to post here he should be able to.
Thu, 2014-09-25 08:29
#95
If he wants to post here he can always ask.
Thu, 2014-09-25 08:34
#96
I think my question in post #88 got missed.
Thu, 2014-09-25 12:13
#97
Couldn't it be the case that if people do not necessarily identify, that they exist anyway? Why is it necessary, so that we can say to ourselves we're a diverse and welcoming crowd, for our own purposes in other words, that people identify themselves? There could be people of all sorts of backgrounds who contribute from time to time, but who prefer to avoid becoming the object of anyone else's attention because of it.
Thu, 2014-09-25 13:41
#98
Sorry Caissa, I missed it. In answer: I don't know. Catchfire and I have to Skype after he moves and then go from there. I would hope to have something to show in November (It would be earlier but I'm having my knee replaced next month).
Thu, 2014-09-25 13:54
#99
I read the good news about your knee on Facebook.
Thu, 2014-09-25 15:20
#100
Yes, it is good news. An extra month of recovery before winter sets in.
Sun, 2014-09-28 13:04
#101
So why are Pondering's personal attacks allowed here?
It has become such a sick joke that she is even invoking the Mods frequently in her support making sure that she wears their support.
She called me a bigot in one thread without a shred of explanation or evidence and suggested a person she disagreed with was being a bad parent in another -- just for their opinions. And I have to be polite in my response becuase you have threatened to ban me.
What an absolute crock this site has become -- talking about diversifying babble on one hand and supporting a person in their attacks on other people on another.
It is the clear and absolute biases of the mods that are destroying this place as much as anything else.
People do raise radical ideas like having moderators show an even hand and less bias but so far that is not happening.
So why is it open season for Pondering's attacks and absolute defence of her when people respond? -- the fact that she has opened multiple fights at the same time with different people has been called a pile-on by the Mods and a consipiracy by Pondering with the support of the mods. Anything but natural responses form individuals who are fed up with the nasty crap being posted.
You have one person engaing in a hostile manner with multiple people -- there is no pile-on and there is no conspiracy and no posse. Just aggressive posts that irritate different people at the same time and people at various moments running out of patience.
Even a post that was in defence of Trudeua was twisted into cause for a nasty condemnation as Pondering pursues a vendetta accross the Board.
Why do you think in light of this that proposals to make this place more welcoming can be taken seriously?
How long do you think it will be before the mods and Pondering have the board to themselves?
And no I don't want to be called an asshole becuase I object to being called a bigot.