Hey.....

Does that mean God will make an appearance? He seems to like you, old goat :-)

I believe you're referring to that other fella laine.

oldgoat wrote:

 

Try to behave, ok?

Try not to ban yourself, eh?

Moderators, old goat and any others, I don't seem to be able to edit a story I started (dealing with horrific news stories). Just a typo, too early in the morning. Jun Lin, not Ju Lin.

And I have never really gotten the internet's fascination with cats. Goats are way more entertaining:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlYlNF30bVg

Indeed. No big deal. I am just wondering if it was a subtle way of telling us enough is enough.

Oops.

Hey! He fixed it!

bagkitty, please read this book. I think you could learn a lot from it. 

OMG, evil Maysie called me a CHA! Wait, is that even a thing?

Cha?

Old Goat was called in to clean up the Family.

Let's not be starting the class warfare.

"Major Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects."

oldgoat: "It might be a good idea for you to disappear from babble for a while. I could be induced to arrange a passage."

X: "My sock puppet accounts? I could use a trip. But it doesn't make any difference about our bet. You still owe me 10,000 roubles."

oldgoat: "And that 10,000 roubles should pay our expenses."

X: "Our expenses? Oldgoat, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

Cut to Mireille Mathieu sings La marseillaise

oldgoat wrote:

Thank you so much.  Reminds me of when I was a kid.

Guffaw!

We're always happy to the get the goat.

You big Nanny.

I am moving my last post out of the political thread to here so it does not add more to derailing that thread.

Slumberjack wrote:

Quote:

And if some time in the future you start using even handed consistent responses to personal attacks and Catchfire is no longer moderating...

It reads like dismissal of one moderator is being called for here, presumably for being the worst ever, but not the two as Meg stated upthread, unless there were other emails where this was suggested.

Its a lamentable state of affairs that things have deteriorated to this point.  I don't know, maybe for some of us 'retirement' is as good a way out as other forms of departure.

A few things wrong with how that email was characterized.

It was stated here on babble that the email was sent to the publisher and president when it was sent to contact and then membership.

It was stated as for the purpsoe of trying to get people fired when in fact it was in the context of withdrawing financial contribution and the complaint was provided only as explanation.

It was stated that I explicitly called for two moderators to be fired when I complained about one and did not even mention the other.

The context of my complaint that offered another policy solution was ignored.

I would not presume that my saying I could not get along with a particular mod so long as they were there would result in a firing.Why would anyone presume that I thought I had that leverage. And without that leverage why would it be a problem to explain honestly to the person in charge of recieving donations why I was no longer willing to make one?

I did not know Catchfire's long term plans and did not know at the time if he was planning on staying for ever at babble-- usually these sorts of positions are stepping stones. I was only being honest in saying that there was clearly a personal conflict and my problem with rabble was no more than that. I needed to make that clear. Had anyone been interested in me being there with Catchfire still there I had laid out how it could be done. It was not much of a threat and not much of a demand.

I did not know I had a personal conflict with Meg at the time-- perhaps her hearing I was calling for her firing is the source-- that is too bad since it was not true.

I was clear about the solution I was calling for-- a policy of moderators to stand down when they are personally involved in a conflict and let someone else take over. I think it is absurd in the context of calling for such a policy that anyone would expect that they would ignore that easy solution and go with a firing instead. And if they went with that recommendation a firing would also make no sense. This is why the context of the whole email is meaningful. After so much contribution it is not entirely unreasonable to acknowledge that the reason for going is a personal conflict when in fact that is the case.

I could not stay so long as the moderator in question would be the one to deal with his own conflict with me. It seems that the answer was to ignore the recommendation and tell the another moderator that I called for both of their firings-- that certainly poisoned any chance of an unbiased hearing from anyone there. All I asked for is when there is a personal conflict between a moderator and another person that a different moderator step in. Old Goat if asked could easily have diffused this -- I have huge respect for him.

Perhaps I should not have come back. I thought things had calmed down but now this year I learned about a grudge going back three years and a misrepresentation of that email. Under the circumstances of 2011, my comments about Catchfire were not without justification. Frankly I think my email of the time screamed for mediation.

I am not interested in further conflict with the mods. I am not looking for a firing. This is what I am interested in:

1) not to have a false record out there

2) not to have snide remarks from a moderator about my character especially when I am not posting here regularly

What I would like if possible:

1) A process to avoid these escalations by having a person not a party to the conflict deal with decisions about deleting posts, banning parties etc. -- not having a moderator who has engaged in the conflict decide on the resolution. Ideally moderators could position themselves to not be involved in publicly attacking people (tone down rhetoric). It will only escalate a problem.

2) More care to avoid bias.

3) Moderators should not be holding grudges against people that to them justifies special treatment as we see has been the case. If such a problem exists it should be talked through not just a black mark next to a person's name and that special treatment.

While I don't want further conflict I think it is only fair that if someone is going to attack me that I get to respond and not be slammed for doing so. I certainly have done nothing worse than what those who judge me have done and I have a lot less power in this situation as was seen when posts of mine were deleted, I was banned and people talked about me whan I was gone. Then after I left again a moderator use my situation for their humour.

And I have never just gone off against a moderator. The only times I have criticized a moderator is in reponse to something they said to me or about me. 

Now I am willing to offer an olive branch if I get one in return. Moderators ask others to grow up and get along. They have clearly harboured a grudge for years now and aired it in a rather strange way. There is a lot to this. I don't have any reason to want to air this except in response to being attacked over it.

So I think I should be able to ask:

1) If it is possible to bury this and begin again -- I have done no worse than they have

2) If we can't begin again and I have to stay away (banned or exiled) then a committment not to snipe at me and run down my character here be the least I could have after having spent countless hours trying to bring ideas to this board. I am not a troll and have spent a decade contributing here.

Where things are now I am only responding when attacked. I thought perhaps with time I could post again in threads but at least for now I have access to PMs if I want to stay in touch with people I like -- share ideas direct with them etc.

I don't know all the answers but this is not a one-sided conflict all on my side as being presented and the solution is not just on my side either. Even staying away did not work as a moderator has gone after me twice since I stopped posting regularly. I would hope that it is not too much to ask that this not happen again. If someone wants to attack me perhaps they can send me a heads up in an email and let me know so that I might reply if I choose -- or just refrain.

Maybe in part it's the Kafkaesque loop where the mods say stuff about Sean, then Sean responds to what has been said about him, which is then followed up by the mods suggesting that Sean should put a cork in it, after which the cycle is repeated.

Definition of Kafkaesque:  of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings; especially :  having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality