Rally for Democracy in Hong Kong

Amazing and inspiring. Solidarity!

The battle for Hong Kong’s future: there’s no going back

Hong Kong: Workers Strike in Support of Student Democracy Movement

According to one piece I read around the time of this year's 25th anniversary, most of the people interviewed said "yes we know it happened; so what?" in the same way that people here or anywhere else turn a blind eye to similar monumentous events.

Speaking of which, I noticed that anniversary passed here with no mention at all.

And yes, it will be very interesting to see what happens in Hong Kong.

And while this is not even the biggest backlash in China, it is understandable that it would get more attention, given the history of Hong Kong, and the fact it is a world business center.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26414016

But for all the differences between this and Tienanmen, I think those in the media talking about China's limited ability to respond and this being a turning point are engaging in wishful thinking . Perhaps it will be different, but there is no indication of that yet.

Agreed with a lot of that...but can we all please STOP calling the Chinese government "Communists"?

If you've got luxury hotels and bazillionaires in the police state you're running, it's damn sure stopped being "red".

The leadership in Beijing, like the leadership in Moscow, is a right-wing nationalist kleptocracy, and both should be regarded as such by the Left.  

Communism is not the problem; the problem is right-wing élitism government. Capitalist democracies are no better that communist states, they all have totalitarian governments. 

I think we can learn a great deal from those young protesters in Hong Kong, they want change and are not affraid to show it. Whether they succeed or not, the seed will be planted. China may remain under the same facist government for now, but eventually democracy will prevail.

If only Canadians were as concerned about democracy like the people of Hong Kong.

Thing is, they didn't have democracy under British colonial rule either, and most sleepwalked through it. But I can see why they might be paying a bit more attention now.

Well said.

Hong Kong Is Ready for Democracy, but China Isn’t Ready for a Free Hong Kong

http://time.com/3447838/hong-kong-democracy-china-protests-anson-chan/

Occupy Hong Kong: Macro scale, micro-adaptations

https://github.com/cshirky/occupyhongkong/tree/master

Have the Commies blinked or is it a trap?

Hong Kong leader refuses to step down amid protests but opens door to talks

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/world/asia/china-hong-kong-protests/index....

Really. I'd have to have to start hijacking this thread with hackneyed old 1950s American propaganda pics. I'd just hate it.

And no. No one has blinked:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/03/hong-kong-violent-clashes-r...

Protest group rejects talks with Hong Kong government

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/world/asia/china-hong-kong-protests/index....

NR..1950 called,they want their meme back.

Threatened Hong Kong Leader Offers Talks But Refuses to Step Down

Hong Kong’s chief executive has refused to quit but offered talks to pro-democracy protest leaders minutes before their deadline for him to resign at midnight on Thursday.

Student leaders had threatened to occupy government facilities if he refused to go, but they urged demonstrators to stay calm as thousands gathered around his office building in the Admiralty area.

Leung Chun-ying said in a press conference that he would not resign, but announced he had asked chief secretary Carrie Lam to speak to student representatives, as they had requested. He made it clear talks would have to be within the framework laid out by Beijing.

It was the first sign of movement in a stand-off that has lasted for days, with tens of thousands of protesters taking over a large area of downtown Hong Kong. The street demonstrations are the biggest challenge to Beijing’s authority in the former British colony since its handover to China in 1997.

Lam said she would seek to arrange talks as soon as possible, adding: “I hope both sides will be satisfied … Students had wanted a public meeting but I hope we can have some flexibility to discuss details.”...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/02/hong-kong-leader-offers-tal...

Terrorism and Turmoil: US Containment of China  -  by Tony Cartalucci

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2014/10/terrorism-and-turmoil-us-contai...

"With Hong-Kong's 'Occupy Central' fully exposed as US-based sedition, readers should be aware that this latest turmoil is but one part of a greater ongoing campaign by the United States to contain and co-opt the nation of China..."

It's abundantly clear that the trajectory of the regime in China is not towards a "dictatorship of the proletariat." For lack of a better term, we still have to call them the Chinese Communist Party or CCP, but I agree with Ken, don't call them "communists" or "commies" - cuz they're NOT.

China's so-called leaders are part of the global plutocratic network, eroding labour rights and wages around the world. Another example of China's exemplary egalitarianism:

Absolutely.

However, President 9% Ma (a nickname earned from his approval rating) represents the views of Taiwan tycoons who benefit from cheap labour in China. His rhetoric supporting democracy is showmanship, since his party the KMT, as bloody (I mean that literally) rich as it is, still needs to win votes in upcoming elections.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2014/10/05/2003601303/1

Taiwanese show solidarity via Taipei sit-in

Protesters storm HK office in Taipei in a display of solidarity

from Hong Kong’s “Occupy Central” is US-backed Sedition by Tony Cartalucci:

Alright, assume this is good information. I honestly don’t know enough about the HK leaders mentioned, but I would say they are people primarily fighting for a democratic Hong Kong. Martin Lee, Jimmy Lai, and Anson Chan have been at it for pretty much all their adult lives.

So HK democracy advocates have found ready allies and funders in US neo-con circles, who may in turn want to undermine China in multiple ways. This would give some justification to the CCP to raise its guard and react more strongly. I need to see more, though, to be convinced that the HK leaders mentioned subscribe to the full US neocon agenda.

What would be unfortunate is that the HK leaders did not seek to build alliances with more progressive (though perhaps less moneyed) supporters of democracy, who do not seek to destabilize China, for example: http://globaldemocracymanifesto.wordpress.com/current-signatories/.

UK must end all arms sales to Hong Kong

This weekend saw serious unrest breaking out across Hong Kong. A student-driven movement drew tens of thousands on to the streets of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon, calling for a truly free election for the Chief Executive of the territory in 2017. The police used considerable amounts of tear gas on the peaceful protesters, in an attempt to disperse them. Sadly, it appears that some of the tear gas used in the attempt to crush the pro-democracy protests was licensed for export by the UK Government.

Images circulated by people on the ground in Hong Kong suggest that at least some of the gas used was provided by UK arms company Chemring, which has subsequently confirmed that it is a long term provider of tear gas to Hong Kong.

This isn't the first time Chemring weapons have been associated with oppression against pro-democracy protesters. There is evidence that they were used in Egypt during the uprising. There is also evidence of plastic bullets made by Haley and Weller (owned by Chemring since 1992) being used in Kuwait....

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/uk-must-end-all-arms-sales-to-hong-kong/

[url=https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/10/hong-kong-protests-faq/]Hong Kong Protests FAQ[/url]

Yes, but although it did not start out as the former, and has been about the latter, independence is rising as a radical option. Independence has become close to impossible in Hong Kong’s case, but the fact that people now entertain the idea in this very pragmatically-minded place, is evidence of the growing frustration with Beijing’s rule.

At the time of the Sino-British Joint Declaration governing the handover, it was thought China would gradually liberalize and become more like Hong Kong. But in the 17 years since then, it has become apparent that wealthy PRC elites only view Hong Kong as a colony handed over from another colonizer.

This is 20/20 hindsight, but it was unfortunate that the British colonizers did not implement true democracy in Hong Kong before handover negotiations even began. I would have regarded that as some restitution, given at least to the hard-working people of Hong Kong, for the "unequal treaties" that humiliated China at the gunpoints of racist opium pushers. I don’t wax romantic and give the British credit for creating a great jewel in the "fragrant harbour" — they didn’t finish the job by making it, if not independent like other commonwealth territories, then self-ruling and democratic. Instead the British kept it as a subjugated colony right up to the handover.

So it would be quite disingenuous for the British government to berate China for not upholding democratic values in Hong Kong. A firmer basis for a truly democratic Hong Kong is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, rather than the Joint Declaration and HK Basic Law. Such being the case, it’s up to the world, not only the British, to support Hong Kong's democracy movement, and to encourage Beijing to allow it to develop peacefully.

Hong Kong: Now The Hard Part, Kick US Out, Build National Consensus

When protests in Hong Kong exploded, knowledgeable people looked for US involvement. It was not hard to find. The overt intrusion of the US is available in budgets, documents and websites; the covert involvement has not yet been uncovered but is no doubt there.  What does US involvement mean for the credibility of the protest movement and the future of Hong Kong? How should Hong Kong activists respond?

The issues raised by the protests, lack of democracy and an unfair economy, are very real. But so are the concerns of Beijing for economic growth and continuing to lift people out of poverty, something China has done remarkably well. Those who seek to transform governance and create a more equal economy now have a more challenging task than protests, they must build national consensus on their issues in Hong Kong and in China’s leadership. The Chinese People’s Daily quoted a Chinese-American author who wrote the Occupy Central leadership, Yin Haoliu, said: “Democracy is a step-by-step process that cannot be approached in haste, otherwise it will bring about troubles.” How quickly those steps advance depends, in part, on how well the democracy movement organizes.

Now that the US has been exposed, it needs to be removed. US goals are very different than the people in Hong Kong. The US is in the process of encircling China militarily and economically. It sees China as a competitor, a nation that can undermine the US as the single world superpower.  Conflict between Hong Kong and Beijing would serve US interests but undermine the Hong Kong economy which is tied to China. The protest movement has already begun to separate itself from people too close to the US. Hong Kong’s people and government need to go further and expel US influence, remembering the historic imperialism of the US in China and noting the current strategic goals of the United States....

quote:

Already there are signs that the Occupy Central and Democratic Party leadership, which has US ties, is not trusted. One participant on the ground reports “the dynamic the movement has taken on” its own energy and is now “the actions of ordinary people in their struggle for democracy.” “The movement can now be considered largely leaderless.” The author points to the protest beginning two days before Occupy Central leaders wanted and the refusal to follow their order to leave after police attacks last Sunday, instead thousands stayed. Revolution News reported how a group of students climbed over the fence of the Central Government Office Complex, remaining there and facing arrest the entire time, without the support of Occupy Central elders for the next 2 days. Thankfully students came to their rescue.

http://www.popularresistance.org/hong-kong-now-the-hard-part-kick-us-out...

Agreed. HK’s democracy movement ≠ US interests. I'd say it is within the reach of the leaders in Beijing to bring Hong Kong peacefully into the fold, but they will have to use their ears, not their arms.

So the CCP charade might end prematurely. The big problem with the "two systems" is that the smaller one threatens to be more popular and usurp the larger one, throughout the "one country". Over the long term this might be inevitable regardless of official policy, so the CCP would be wise to oversee a controlled, gradual democratization, instead of being overwhelmed trying to manage an unraveling in which foreign interests seize advantage of and exacerbate discontent and factionalism in China. That would be a messy situation.