Harper joins U.S. in Iraq, with support of Liberals

616 posts / 0 new

Topic locked

Sun, 2014-10-12 17:12

addictedtomyipod

The leader of the Green Party voted against the Iraq war mission, while the deputly leader of that same party voted along with Harper and the Cons for the bombing mission. I'm still waiting for Lizzie to explain to her supporters why the Green Party pretends at every turn that they are the ONLY Party that stands for peace, yet will vote for war. In her rush to prove her high and mighty puritan standards, she has put her partisan interests first. Hyer was elected under the NDP banner. Are we to believe that his supporters are all in favour of this mission? How can one be sure they are representing their constitsuents when in every riding there will be both sides of the issue living there. This is an example of failed leadership as she was unable to convince Hyer that voting against the mission is what the Greens are supposed to stand for. That is why Party discipline is sometimes necessary.

Lizzie wants to have it both ways. She claims to be non partisan but is extremely partisan. She makes claims to represent peace but does not. If you want to lead a Party that stands for anything, then you have to back it up, otherwise you are just another politician that breaks promises.

Sun, 2014-10-12 17:24

#603

grangerock

In a recent press release I received from the Green Party, Elizabeth May claims that she is the only MP that voted against continued bombing in Libya. Paul Dewer corrected her on that claim, but she also used this claim in campaign literature in the Victoria by-election. Elizabeth May gets away with spreading misinformation--she will not be able to claim as she has that the Green Party is the party of peace--but knowing Elizabeth May she is very good at convincing her supporters she is the only right person.

Sun, 2014-10-12 19:19

#604

eastnoireast

the greens have been clear that they don't whip their vote.

this is what that looks like. ugly, but democratic.

who else voted against libya bombing?

Sun, 2014-10-12 19:45

#605

bekayne

grangerock wrote:

In a recent press release I received from the Green Party, Elizabeth May claims that she is the only MP that voted against continued bombing in Libya. Paul Dewer corrected her on that claim, but she also used this claim in campaign literature in the Victoria by-election. Elizabeth May gets away with spreading misinformation--she will not be able to claim as she has that the Green Party is the party of peace--but knowing Elizabeth May she is very good at convincing her supporters she is the only right person.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HouseChamberBusiness/ChamberVoteDetail.aspx?Langua...

The distinction is that she opposed all of the bombing, while the NDP opposed some of the bombing

Sun, 2014-10-12 19:47

#606

bekayne

What had already happened when that vote took place on June 24, 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mobile#Summary_of_action

Sun, 2014-10-12 23:37

#607

grangerock

she does not make the distinction in her press release--she claims that she was the only MP to vote against continued bombing in Libya--factually incorrect. But that wasn't so much the point as the fact that she is quick to blame other MPs about voting to bomb, but is quite happy to accept the fact that the Deputy Leader of the Green Party voted to bomb in Iraq and it is "grassroots democracy"

Mon, 2014-10-13 10:16

#608

NDPP

On Target: ISIS Decision Must Bring End to Fear Mongering - by Scott Taylor

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1243305-on-target-isis-decision-mus...

"Now that Canada is committing forces to this conflict, it is vital that we look logically at the equation, demystifying the greatly enhanced ISIS threat and quite the media fear mongering."

Imperial Pax Americana (and vid)

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/195320-us-empire-collapse-policy/

Tue, 2014-10-14 06:08

#609

MegB

Brachina wrote:

Rabble needs an ignore button, it would help to avoid some of these conflicts and hurt feels perhaps Pondering and Sean could apologize to each other (that is not about asigning fault rather, its about accepting what has been said and showing a willingness to move on) and the same with the conflict between MegB and Sean.

What's the common denominator here? Sean sent an email to CF's and my boss, trying to get us fired. He is in constant, infantile attack mode, bullies and then complains when he's called on it.

I'm using my personal ignore button and ignoring this suggestion.

Tue, 2014-10-14 07:48

#610

Paladin1

Pondering wrote:

I read that they also gain support through providing for their communities. They don't just support their fighters they support their families.

I've been reading some articles about recruitment in the west and I think the threat of terrorism here is very small. Young people, girls too, are attracted to the romanticism. They don't want to come back here and commit some random crime like a crazy person and get caught like the Boston bombers. They want to be part of something larger than themselves. They want to be with comrades and walk around with weapons in a foreign land. Getting killed or captured by police is not so appealing and it is more difficult to act when they are back living in Canada and not surrounded by like-minded revolutionaries. I'm not saying there is no risk, but if the risk were significant it would be happening a lot more frequently. What the Boston bombers did was easy and there are countless easy targets that would injure or kill just as many people or many more. Our trains would be transformed into rolling bombs if the tracks are damaged. There has been time since 911 for thousands of people to be trained and sent back to commit some atrocity.

I hate to admit you may be right (especially considering all the emergency supplies I've stockpiled) but for decads CSIS has been saying the same thing abou terrorists in Canada.

Years ago I remember reading a report they put out highlighting Canada as one of the most active countries in the world for terrorists however that activity was non-hostile thus it never really made it to the news.

Aterrorist attack in Canada, even largely physically unsuccessful, would cause a total shitstorm with Canadains who went from waking up and feeling safe to waking up and thinking they could be attacked on the way to work. Nothing pisses off North Americans more than inturrputing their daily lives or messing with their stuff.

As you, and CSIS, point out however there is a wisdom to not shitting where you eat (or work, go to school etc..). A terrorist attack at home would bring a lot ot attention to people who may not want attention on them at all. Big catch 22.

Tue, 2014-10-14 09:19

#611

Brachina

Did the charges to your VISA at least cease?

Tue, 2014-10-14 09:50

#612

Slumberjack

Quote:
And if some time in the future you start using even handed consistent responses to personal attacks and Catchfire is no longer moderating...

It reads like dismissal of one moderator is being called for here, presumably for being the worst ever, but not the two as Meg stated upthread, unless there were other emails where this was suggested.

Its a lamentable state of affairs that things have deteriorated to this point. I don't know, maybe for some of us 'retirement' is as good a way out as other forms of departure.

Tue, 2014-10-14 10:03

#613

Sean in Ottawa

MegB wrote:

Brachina wrote:

Rabble needs an ignore button, it would help to avoid some of these conflicts and hurt feels perhaps Pondering and Sean could apologize to each other (that is not about asigning fault rather, its about accepting what has been said and showing a willingness to move on) and the same with the conflict between MegB and Sean.

What's the common denominator here? Sean sent an email to CF's and my boss, trying to get us fired. He is in constant, infantile attack mode, bullies and then complains when he's called on it.

I'm using my personal ignore button and ignoring this suggestion.

Meg -- this is untrue. I never ever did that. I am not even posting here now except to respond to the personal attacks of a moderator. Sad.

The email in question was sent to rabble in 2011 to cancel my monthly contribution. I did complain about one of the moderators at the time who I felt was bullying and showing bias as I felt I needed to give an explanation. I did not mention Meg in that email at all. I also included a suggestion as to how to avoid this sort of thing-- have a different moderator deal with a conflict.

I did not ask for anyone to be fired or even pretend that such a request would even be listened to. This accusation comes from my statement at the time that so long as Catchfire was moderating I did not feel I could return-- this came after my criticism in rabble reactions was censored. There is a distinction between acknowledging a serious conflict and asking or expecting someone to be fired. Indeed the proposal I made was that a moderator not involved in the dispute mediate. I think this is a progressive and fair way to go. I find it disturbing that this simple solution is ignored and replaced with a statement that I asked for both moderators to be fired. It is not my normal practice to ask for working people to be fired.

I am left wondering if Meg ever saw the email I sent or only heard about it second hand. This is the only explanation I can have for her thinking that I asked for her to be fired. It may also explain why I have seen bias from her since then which of course I ahve responded to and escalation from there. But the "original sin" never ever existed. I never ever asked for Meg to be fired. I never even complained about her other than here on the forum in response to what happened. Catchfire I complained about as you can see below but I did not call for or expect him to be fired.

Here is the text of that email since it has been represented now twice by the mods it is only fair that people hearing about it actually see it. Please note it is also over three years old sent August 31, 2011. I left at the time and came back quite a while later.

Here is the actual text of that email which was sent to rabble contact not to a president/publisher etc whoe email addresses I never had:

I am out the door of Babble and Babble was really why I was donating the
small amount monthly I have been. I will need to direct it to some other
place once I have decided where I will write.
Frankly I think you have some serious issues with one of the Mods
Catchfire-- but that is your problem to deal with as you wish.
I have suggested that when a mod has a conflict with an individual that
mod should back off and let another mod moderate to avoid worsening
conflicts of interest. I have also said that policies about personal attacks need to be followed
in an even-handed and open manner rather than arbitrary based on the
personal feelings of the mod (in this case Catchfire). I also think it is
entirely inappropriate that a mod be censoring reactions to his own
behavior in rabble reactions-- another mod can make the decision. That is
actually the last straw for me. For all these reasons please cancel my
monthly small contribution of $5 now being drawn from my Visa. And if some
time in the future you start using even handed consistent responses to
personal attacks and Catchfire is no longer moderating -- I'll come back if
you will have me.

****

When my visa card was still being charged I sent the following -- the answer was immediate and the stopped chargin my visa. Apparently my original message made it to the mods but not to the accounts department. Once the Visa was no longer charged I sent nothing more.

****

After 8 years of being a frequent contributor to Babble, I have become
more than disgusted with the heavy handed censorship, conflicts of
interest and power tripping of one mod in particular who has ruined
the site for me at least. Babble was the reason for my financial
contribution. My family has a low income and we are struggling so we
are very careful where we provide financial support.

I wrote 2 months ago asking that charges to my Visa cease. There was no reply.

Tue, 2014-10-14 11:06

#614

Sean in Ottawa

Brachina wrote:

Did the charges to your VISA at least cease?

After the second email they did right away. They sent me an apology and told me that they had never recieved the original email.

The original email sent to a general email box apparently never made it to them.

I have no complaints with them as this can happen.

Tue, 2014-10-14 11:18

#615

Sean in Ottawa

ETA Moving my last longer response out of this thread- to put in the reactions part of the forum. Those who want to ignore it don't have to wade through it for posts on Iraq. I only responded here becuase the attack on me came here. Perhaps any further attacks can also be moved there as well -- should someone feel the need.

Tue, 2014-10-14 12:46

#616

Catchfire

Didn't we all have a kumbaya moment about this recently? This thread seems to have deteriorated quite a bit so I'ma close it.

If someone could open a brand new, clean thread about the cheery subject of beheadings, that would be great. And if Sean and Pondering could ignore each other, like they promised, that would also be great. And Sean, with all due respect, if you could resist the urge to write full-length apologias in the Socratic style for every perceived slight by a moderator, I think that would also help the tone. I think you can appreciate why some of us might lose patience when the same sniping repeats itself year after year, no matter who is involved.

(ETA. Someone did open one, and it's here.)

Pages

Topic locked