Prior Consent

12 posts / 0 new

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Wed, 2014-12-03 21:48

zerocarbs

Prior Consent

I was a shy and awkward 22-yr-old when I had my fist real girlfriend. We'd necked a few times and I'd taken her to a Johnny Winter concert, our only real date as such. She was wearing a little neckchain that featured a beaver - I nearly vomited trying to suppress the associations popping into my brain. She just fixed me with this enigmatic ambiguous smile.

Sometime later, we went camping with friends. I really had no idea what to expect, so I took along my pajamas. On the first night, I came back from the beach and found that she had zipped our sleeping bags together.

Ummm... we didn't happen to have a lawyer or a witness or a notary public there, let alone any sort of formal contract. So I caved. Guess I should call the cops now, huh? She never asked for my formal consent.

If I have a point, it's just that this notion that any sexual activity requires clear prior verbal consent from the woman is totally disconnected from reality. And if that's "mansplaining", well tough.

Wed, 2014-12-03 22:00

Pondering

Rather than going through a whole tiresome debate there is a video that will explain all about consent. I just don't have the link so I hope someone else will post it. After you watch it I would be happy to discuss consent with you.

Wed, 2014-12-03 22:19

Pondering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD2EooMhqRI

Here it is, but on another note the tone of your post was hostile. Please remember that you are in the feminist forum. If you don't respect us you don't belong here. You are here to learn not teach.

Thu, 2014-12-04 00:21

Aristotleded24

zerocarbs wrote:
I was a shy and awkward 22-yr-old when I had my fist real girlfriend. We'd necked a few times and I'd taken her to a Johnny Winter concert, our only real date as such. She was wearing a little neckchain that featured a beaver - I nearly vomited trying to suppress the associations popping into my brain. She just fixed me with this enigmatic ambiguous smile.

Sometime later, we went camping with friends. I really had no idea what to expect, so I took along my pajamas. On the first night, I came back from the beach and found that she had zipped our sleeping bags together.

Ummm... we didn't happen to have a lawyer or a witness or a notary public there, let alone any sort of formal contract. So I caved. Guess I should call the cops now, huh? She never asked for my formal consent.

If I have a point, it's just that this notion that any sexual activity requires clear prior verbal consent from the woman is totally disconnected from reality. And if that's "mansplaining", well tough.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. I think the main thing is that you create an environment of trust and open communication so that both partners are on the same page. As for verbal consent, I kind of agree with that point, if only because what we say is such a tiny part of communication, and it's important to pay attention to things like body language and tone of voice, and relying only on verbal communication absolves you of responsibility to pay attention to other signals. I remember when I had my first kiss with my ex-girlfriend, I could tell by the signals we were sending back and forth that she would be okay with it, so I didn't have to ask. I would also suggest that if you are really that uncertain about the signals your partner is sending that you have to ask every five seconds "do you like this?" "are you okay?" that you have serious communication problems with your relationship and you need to slow things down and work them out.

Thu, 2014-12-04 08:32

Caissa

Given the text of the op does this really belong in the feminist forum?

Thu, 2014-12-04 08:40

Maysie

No, it belongs in the crapper.

And, what Aristotleded24 said.

Thu, 2014-12-04 10:28

oldgoat

I see it's been flagged more than once. If the regular mods are busy and I still see it later I'll dust off my mod hat and deal with it. (probably end up banning myself again)

I'd like to actually post on this particular point, hopefully from a more constructive point of view, because one keeps hearing it, and it goes well beyond mere intellectual laziness. It is more than just another guy who needs to have stuff explained to him. It represents a stubborn refusal to understand a hugely important matter, that is utterly obstuctionist. When males say thigs like this, I also believe it represents an opportunity for other males to be real allies, rather than taking up space on forums like this trying to explain feminism to women, as we seem to so often do.

But alas, I must attend my dentist.

Thu, 2014-12-04 11:13

6079_Smith_W

oldgoat wrote:

I also believe it represents an opportunity for other males to be real allies

Well that "opportunity" is a question for another thread, but...

@ zerocarbs

Never mind that that non-negotiation was a two-way street, and if you want to get technical and play gotcha, your friend could just as easily call the cops on you. If it only occurs to you to use that, years after the fact, as a sword rather than seeking to right an actual wrong, then the people upthread are completely right in calling bullshit.

Especially since it sounds like there was no real abuse at all in the incident you describe. I wonder what the other party involved would think of it being brought up in this context.

Lots of people really do get coerced (and far worse) into sex. There's a good reason why many don't really want to talk about it. Waving a consensual incident around as if it has any bearing on abuse is really ignorant.

Thu, 2014-12-04 11:36

mersh

This is a shitty post at a particularly shitty time. And that's me, mainsplaining.

Fri, 2014-12-05 20:29

#10

jas

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Waving a consensual incident around as if it has any bearing on abuse is really ignorant.

Sums it up well. It made me think of the Onion headline that Catchfire referenced recently.

That said, we could leave this as a men only thread in the feminism forum.

Sat, 2014-12-06 18:20

#11

Aristotleded24

oldgoat wrote:
If the regular mods are busy

So I guess you must be one of the unleaded mods?

Mon, 2014-12-08 09:01

#12

MegB

zerocarbs wrote:

I was a shy and awkward 22-yr-old when I had my fist real girlfriend. We'd necked a few times and I'd taken her to a Johnny Winter concert, our only real date as such. She was wearing a little neckchain that featured a beaver - I nearly vomited trying to suppress the associations popping into my brain. She just fixed me with this enigmatic ambiguous smile.

Sometime later, we went camping with friends. I really had no idea what to expect, so I took along my pajamas. On the first night, I came back from the beach and found that she had zipped our sleeping bags together.

Ummm... we didn't happen to have a lawyer or a witness or a notary public there, let alone any sort of formal contract. So I caved. Guess I should call the cops now, huh? She never asked for my formal consent.

If I have a point, it's just that this notion that any sexual activity requires clear prior verbal consent from the woman is totally disconnected from reality. And if that's "mansplaining", well tough.

Nice bait. It's mansplaining and the tough thing is that you've blatantly violated the guidelines for the Feminist Forum. Don't post in here again.

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