An analysis has been done which showed EKOS as being was it the worst track record of all
Cbc has no shame with their pimping for trudeau their final hope before the liberal lights go out for good
Yeah, CBC is so pro-Trudeau that the majority of directors on the CBC Board of Governors are now Harper appointees.
And there is now a former SUN News producer working on Evan Solomon's show.
It is the seat count that matters, not popular support.
Because of the CONS strength in Western Canada, the Prariers, rural Ontario and the 905 they will win the next election.
Only question is will it be a majority or minority.
We can only pray for a minority.
I'll stick with abacus and Angus Reid, who have a better record than EKOS and Leger. EKOS freely admits that they can't get proper numbers on the NDP.
Who has a better track record is a matter of debate. And in any event, we aren't talking big differences (except in the Quebec numbers). All the polls agree that the NDP is in 3rd and that the Conservatives have gained ground.
Whether the NDP is at 18% or 20% doesn't make a big difference at this point. It's the trendlines that matter. And the current trendlines show a decline in NDP vote, as well as some decline in Liberal vote, and an increase in Conservative vote.
Where the big dispute is going on is in Quebec. The Anglo Canadian pollsters like Abacus and EKOS claim the Conservatives are surging, but Leger claims they are not and still has the NDP & LPC doing well. Presumably Leger knows Quebec better. Maybe we'll learn more when the next CROP poll comes out.
Debater again it is the seat count that matters. Not the popular vote.
On that basis the Cons have the upper hand.
Leger has Cons at 16 in Quebec. Ekos at 25.6. Abacus at 14
Going from memory I think Forum had them at 24.
Obviously a huge discrepency in Quebec polls perhaps reflecting much volatility.
Numbers aren't up for debate, Debater. They just are what they are. Latest abacus poll: Con: 33, Lib: 32, NDP: 24. Looks like its just the Libs who are dropping. Yes, as you love to point out, the NDP is still in third, yet it is well ahead of where it was this time last election. All signs are good.
I'm not gloating. *I'M* not the one that's happy when the Conservatives move ahead. My point is that some NDPers seem to want the Liberals to go down, without realizing what the consequences are. Well the Liberals have lost some ground to Harper now because of his campaign to scare Canadians through all the terrorism propaganda.Except that the Liberals have indicated their support for the anti-terrorism measures proposed by the Conservative government, so on that file I'm not sure how a Liberal government makes any material difference anyways.
Well, there are numerous differences between Liberals & Conservatives as have already been documented in the past.
1. Gay rights
2. Women's issues/abortion
3. Drug policy/marijuana legalization
4. Science/policy/long-form census
5. Environment
6. UN/foreign affairs
7. Aboriginal missing women inquiry
And with regard to the terrorism bill, Trudeau told Harper yesterday the Liberals would institute more oversight, which Harper opposes.
John Mackay and Lawrence Macauley both voted against gay marriage and are pro-life.
Trudeau cannot be trusted on weed legaliztion because he or his handlers turned down Jodie Emery in Vancouver East.
Sorry for poking holes in your post
John Mackay and Lawrence Macauley both voted against gay marriage and are pro-life.
Trudeau cannot be trusted on weed legaliztion because he or his handlers turned down Jodie Emery in Vancouver East.
Sorry for poking holes in your post
I'm not endorsing or supporting the actions of John Mckay and Lawrence Macauley
But Justin Ling an out journalist wrote a column for xtra magazine defending John McKay
Justin Ling wrote
"The gay community has a chip on its shoulder from the politicians and preachers that it once fought, passing it off as a never-again mentality."
See link for more.
http://dailyxtra.com/toronto/ideas/features/raging-homos-82570
Well, there are numerous differences between Liberals & Conservatives as have already been documented in the past.
1. Gay rights
2. Women's issues/abortion
3. Drug policy/marijuana legalization
4. Science/policy/long-form census
5. Environment
6. UN/foreign affairs
7. Aboriginal missing women inquiry
And with regard to the terrorism bill, Trudeau told Harper yesterday the Liberals would institute more oversight, which Harper opposes.
John Mackay and Lawrence Macauley both voted against gay marriage and are pro-life.
Trudeau cannot be trusted on weed legaliztion because he or his handlers turned down Jodie Emery in Vancouver East.
Sorry for poking holes in your post
5. Biggest per-capita increase in GHG emissions from an industrial country in the world under a Liberal government that talked a lot (and even named their dogs after) Kyoto.
6. Merged the Department of Foreign Affairs with International Trade, tied aid to trade, made no progress on achieving 0.7% of GDP for aid, embroiled Canada in a 10-year war.
7. All of Canada is guilty on this one; each and every one of us. This goes well beyond any partisan bickering - governments of all political stripes have dropped the ball.
I will grant you this one, Debater:
4. I'm really not sure what a long census has to do with science, unless you're indicating a general distrust of evidence. On this topic I would suggest the following difference between Liberals and Tories. Liberals ignore evidence, while Tories try to make it not exist.
I'm not gloating. *I'M* not the one that's happy when the Conservatives move ahead. My point is that some NDPers seem to want the Liberals to go down, without realizing what the consequences are. Well the Liberals have lost some ground to Harper now because of his campaign to scare Canadians through all the terrorism propaganda.Except that the Liberals have indicated their support for the anti-terrorism measures proposed by the Conservative government, so on that file I'm not sure how a Liberal government makes any material difference anyways.
Well, there are numerous differences between Liberals & Conservatives as have already been documented in the past.
1. Gay rights
2. Women's issues/abortion
3. Drug policy/marijuana legalization
4. Science/policy/long-form census
5. Environment
6. UN/foreign affairs
7. Aboriginal missing women inquiry
And with regard to the terrorism bill, Trudeau told Harper yesterday the Liberals would institute more oversight, which Harper opposes.
That sounds all fine and good....
But what about economic issues?...Because economics are where the proverbial rubber meets the road....
It is the seat count that matters, not popular support.
Because of the CONS strength in Western Canada, the Prariers, rural Ontario and the 905 they will win the next election.
Only question is will it be a majority or minority.
We can only pray for a minority.
Sadly,I think you're right...
Numbers aren't up for debate, Debater. They just are what they are. Latest abacus poll: Con: 33, Lib: 32, NDP: 24. Looks like its just the Libs who are dropping. Yes, as you love to point out, the NDP is still in third, yet it is well ahead of where it was this time last election. All signs are good.
1. Numbers aren't up for debate? That's exactly what the pollsters are doing right now! 
They debate the accuracy of their numbers with one another and whose methodology produces better numbers. The big debate on Twitter tonight is whether Leger or EKOS is more accurate on Quebec. EKOS shows a CPC surge in Quebec, whereas Leger shows a close NDP-LPC race with the Conservatives well behind.
2. Yes, the NDP is ahead of where it was when it was a 3rd/4th party. We know that. But the NDP is well behind where an Official Opposition party should be. So that part is not a good sign. For comparative purposes, the Mulcair NDP has lower numbers than Dion & Ignatieff did, particulalry in Ontario. Never before has an Official Opposition party spent this much time in 3rd place.
1. Yes, and they all talk in circles and studiously avoid bringing up each polling company's record of accuracy. Because that would bring the conversation to an end, and what would they talk about then? Basically, some pollsters are worthless. Pundits just won't admit it because they are too invested in the status quo to upset the apple cart.
2. As I keep telling you, the NDP has never been the OO before. There is no precedent for this situation and no rational way to say what ought or ought not to happen. You can't make generalizations about unique experiences. You only do this because you have a narrative to push and are a fundamentally dishonest person. There is no standard for how the NDP "should" be in OO because it has never happened before. Try to keep up in the future, ok?
Latest abacus: C:33 L:32 N:24
Latest Angus Reid: C:34 L:34 N:22
These two pollsters, both with much better records of accuracy than any of their competitors, are almost identical, whereas the others are all over the place. It is best to ignore the rest.
The 31% Liberal support is just showing us the mugshot of the felon. Or the outline of the corpse if you like.
While the NDP stay at or above 20%, there is no majority for the Liberals or the Conservatives. The implication is that if we don't vote Liberal, we get a Conservative government. The answer to that in most parts of Canada is "Good."
The other thing is that 20 million central canadians will get to enjoy 8 more months of Ontario Liberal corruption and 8 more months of Quebec Liberal Mikey Harris, and the Liberal name should hopefully be pretty toxic by then. It will also be clear that Elizabeth May has Mulroney taint. I would not be surprised to discover if she were not beholden to some business interests of her own.
The other thing that Liberal cheerleaders like to forget is that Ontario does not generally like the same party running the federal and provincial government. Re-electing Wynne was a big sign that Trudeau is unlikely to win.
The only choice in Ontario which STOPS HARPER and prevents more Liberal corruption is NDP.
In Quebec, the only ways to punish both Couillard and Harper will be to go Bloc or NDP. Bloc will show Canada that Harper is failing to hold it together, not that anyone will care. NDP will show that many in Quebec want to join with other Canadians and try a new idea which is not tainted with Tory and Liberal brutality and corruption. Quebec no longer has a veto on a Canadian majority, so because of that there is less probability Quebec will vote 'en masse'. Liberal is not needed to "save Canada".
The worst thing for the integrity of Canada would be any kind of Liberal government based out of Ontario. Immediately people would be accusing it of favoring Ontario because of Trudeau's chummy relationship with Wynne. Both Western and Quebec separatists would start revving their engines, and because of Liberal dramaqueenery, we may have to suffer years of more constitutional bullshit which will fail anyway. No one wants that.
I don't know much about the West. There are a lot of rednecks there, and a lot of people trying to stop them. I do know that the word "Liberal" is not said in polite company. The idea of a Liberal government based on seats in Ontario and Quebec will be good news for all western separatist parties, which will shift politics generally to the right.
Not only all of the above, but Justin Trudeau is not up to the job. He can hardly read a speech, let alone write one. He gets an allowance from a billionaire (he's probably reinvesting it now that he has his MP's salary), and the billionaires will be telling him what to do.
Debater, Trudeau is not going to get a majority if he actually outpolls the NDP. So, don't count on the Libs getting one. They aren't going to. If you really want to stop Harper, tell your Blue buddies to stop giving him a majority. It will be entirely the fault of you Liberals if Harper wins. No one else. You guys will have given him ANOTHER majority, AGAIN!
Debater, Trudeau is not going to get a majority if he actually outpolls the NDP. So, don't count on the Libs getting one. They aren't going to. If you really want to stop Harper, tell your Blue buddies to stop giving him a majority. It will be entirely the fault of you Liberals if Harper wins. No one else. You guys will have given him ANOTHER majority, AGAIN!
Political parties don't actually control voters. People who intend to vote Liberal and change their minds don't follow the advice of the Liberal party on who they should choose instead anymore than those who consider voting NDP.
Pondering, look at the cross-tabs of the Abacus poll you trumpet.
I did. I'm not like you. It doesn't make the poll any the less interesting to me. Personally I found this the most troubling:
Harper scored highest with Canadians in five of 16 descriptors, with respondents picking him best suited to be the CEO of a large company (47%), give investment advice (46%), give career advice (41%), give advice to your children about their future (37%) and negotiate a contract on your behalf (38%)...
Debater, Trudeau is not going to get a majority if he actually outpolls the NDP. So, don't count on the Libs getting one. They aren't going to. If you really want to stop Harper, tell your Blue buddies to stop giving him a majority. It will be entirely the fault of you Liberals if Harper wins. No one else. You guys will have given him ANOTHER majority, AGAIN!Political parties don't actually control voters. People who intend to vote Liberal and change their minds don't follow the advice of the Liberal party on who they should choose instead anymore than those who consider voting NDP.
Pondering, YOUR supporters, elected Harper. Own it. ITS YOURS!
Debater, Trudeau is not going to get a majority if he actually outpolls the NDP. So, don't count on the Libs getting one. They aren't going to. If you really want to stop Harper, tell your Blue buddies to stop giving him a majority. It will be entirely the fault of you Liberals if Harper wins. No one else. You guys will have given him ANOTHER majority, AGAIN!Political parties don't actually control voters. People who intend to vote Liberal and change their minds don't follow the advice of the Liberal party on who they should choose instead anymore than those who consider voting NDP.
Pondering, YOUR supporters, elected Harper. Own it. ITS YOURS!
I have supporters?
Debater, Trudeau is not going to get a majority if he actually outpolls the NDP. So, don't count on the Libs getting one. They aren't going to. If you really want to stop Harper, tell your Blue buddies to stop giving him a majority. It will be entirely the fault of you Liberals if Harper wins. No one else. You guys will have given him ANOTHER majority, AGAIN!Political parties don't actually control voters. People who intend to vote Liberal and change their minds don't follow the advice of the Liberal party on who they should choose instead anymore than those who consider voting NDP.
Pondering, YOUR supporters, elected Harper. Own it. ITS YOURS!
I have supporters?
That's truly childish Pondering.
Pondering, YOUR supporters, elected Harper. Own it. ITS YOURS!
I have supporters?
I'm not gloating. *I'M* not the one that's happy when the Conservatives move ahead. My point is that some NDPers seem to want the Liberals to go down, without realizing what the consequences are. Well the Liberals have lost some ground to Harper now because of his campaign to scare Canadians through all the terrorism propaganda.
But it has resulted in not just the Liberals losing ground, but the NDP losing ground as well. So how is the rise of the Conservatives good for either of the Opposition parties?
EKOS says the Cons are even gaining ground in Québec, which could mean a loss of seats there for the NDP as well.
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/02/05/conservatives-back-on-top-with-strong...
You seem to think that people should be concerned if the Conservatives win the next election over the Liberals. We know basically two things:
1) A majority Liberal victory in 2015 is not going to end the threat from the right in 2019, in fact their corruption and hapless policies are almost certain to usher in a new legion of knuckledraggers in the subsequent election.
This cycle needs to be extinguished.
2) In the event of a "hung" parliament the Liberals are 90% likely to fold in the face of the Conservatives, and let them rule regardless as they did in 2008. They are even folding now, and promising to vote for reactionary authoritarian police powers and have already voted for the creation of a domestic secret police force, and it wasn't even necessary to do so.
The NDP, as uninspiring as they are, is in fact the only way available in the electoral process to end the dominance of the right.
But I feel for you Debater. Finally discovering that the Liberal saviour is about 2% points away from being recognized as a dismal failure, must be hard.
The NDP, as uninspiring as they are, is in fact the only way available in the electoral process to end the dominance of the right.
The NDP would not end the dominance of the right anymore than the Liberals ever did. Free trade deals and pipelines would still flourish.
In the event of a "hung" parliament the Liberals are 90% likely to fold in the face of the Conservatives, and let them rule regardless as they did in 2008.
I'm not sure about that. They gave the Cons a free ride because the party was broke. They had no money to force another election. While the Cons and the NDP had a replenished bank account. Plus each time the Liberals lost, they would hold another leadership race. How do you force an election when you have no leader?
This time is different. Even if the Liberals bomb and continue to be the third party, they have set up the infastructure to fundraise. Just like the Cons and the NDP.
So if the government is defeated in a confidence motion, the Liberals would be ready to campaign again.
All that said, I still think the Conservatives will win the next election. The only question is will it be a minority or majority.
Tks Scott
60 seats just in Quebec
If true mulcair could end up as pm
Gaining half a dozen seats won't be enough
Tks Scott
60 seats just in Quebec
If true mulcair could end up as pm
Gaining half a dozen seats won't be enough
Maybe you should read the article. The NDP internal polling says 60 Qc seats and 40 Ont seats and 20 Bc seats. They polled 6000 people instead of the usual 1000 or less by other polsters.
Even that generous internal poll has the NDP above 20%, which still prevents the Conservatives and the Liberals from getting a majority.
Maybe you should read the article. The NDP internal polling says 60 Qc seats and 40 Ont seats and 20 Bc seats. They polled 6000 people instead of the usual 1000 or less by other polsters.
Scott. I believe that ya misread the article. It stated that fed NDP strategists were meeting at looking at where they could obtain 170 seats in order to form a majority government. They figured 60 seats in PQ, 40 in ON, 20 in BC. All poli parties do that.
With regards to the 6,000 sample size internal poll, fed NDP party strategists stated that the fed NDP is the 2nd choice of a majority of voters. And that is where they are targeting the NDP's growth potential. Only e-day, after an election campaign, will determine whether anything will materialize. Let's hope so.
PS. Weekly publicly released German federal opinion polls typically have 1,000 sample size with a population of 80 million. 1,000 is a great sample size and after that diminishing returns result.
I suspect that the fed possibly NDP conducted 1,000 sample size polls in 6 of the main provinces (along with large intra-provincial regional sample sizes) where they expect to gain seats. BTW, all poli parties poll internally - some weekly, some monthly, along with riding polls all over the country.
Maybe you should read the article. The NDP internal polling says 60 Qc seats and 40 Ont seats and 20 Bc seats. They polled 6000 people instead of the usual 1000 or less by other polsters.Scott. I believe that ya misread the article. It stated that fed NDP strategists were meeting at looking at where they could obtain 170 seats in order to form a majority government. They figured 60 seats in PQ, 40 in ON, 20 in BC. All poli parties do that.
With regards to the 6,000 sample size internal poll, fed NDP party strategists stated that the fed NDP is the 2nd choice of a majority of voters. And that is where they are targeting the NDP's growth potential. Only e-day, after an election campaign, will determine whether anything will materialize. Let's hope so.
PS. Weekly publicly released German federal opinion polls typically have 1,000 sample size with a population of 80 million. 1,000 is a great sample size and after that diminishing returns result.
I suspect that the fed possibly NDP conducted 1,000 sample size polls in 6 of the main provinces (along with large intra-provincial regional sample sizes) where they expect to gain seats. BTW, all poli parties poll internally - some weekly, some monthly, along with riding polls all over the country.
Centrist, what are Mulcair's numbers in regards to known/unknown in BC?
I think he will do very well in BC in this election.
Centrist, what are Mulcair's numbers in regards to known/unknown in BC?
I think he will do very well in BC in this election.
What do you base a prediction that Mulcair will do well in BC on? I haven't seen any evidence yet that Mulcair is particularly popular in B.C.
The NDP nearly lost the Victoria by-election in 2012 to the Greens, and that happened 6 months into Mulcair's leadership when he should have been getting honeymoon numbers.
The NDP has okay numbers in B.C. right now, but sometimes they are behind the Conservatives & Liberals. While Liberal numbers have collapsed in B.C. under Dion & Ignatieff, they have the potential to be up under Trudeau. Trudeau has lived and worked in B.C. and his Mother's family is from there so he has maintained genuine connections to the province that other Liberal leaders haven't had.
Not only all of the above, but Justin Trudeau is not up to the job. He can hardly read a speech, let alone write one. He gets an allowance from a billionaire (he's probably reinvesting it now that he has his MP's salary), and the billionaires will be telling him what to do.
Your post is full of the usual insulting and childish insults.
Justin Trudeau is totally fluent in two languages and has 2 university degrees, including one in English Literature and one in Education. He can certainly read, write & speak very fluently in English & French.
And what allowance from a billionaire are you talking about?! Pierre Trudeau was not a billionaire. Not even close. He had about 6 or 7 million dollars according to most reports. Why don't you do your research? You seem to be confusing Pierre Trudeau with Ross Perot. Or perhaps Mitt Romney or Paul Martin. Romney & Martin reportedly have several hundred million dollars each because of their business dealings. But Pierre Trudeau? Nothing like that. And all Justin inherited was about a million dollars, which he publicly disclosed when he ran for leader. Pierre Trudeau's money was split among 3 children. And Justin has been working for his own salary for years. He doesn't need his father's money. You sound like Stephen Harper when you spew nonsense like that.
I am so tired of reading such trash. It's so false it would probably be libel if a journalist wrote it in a publication. Justin Trudeau "gets an allowance from a billionaire"? Are you sure you're not Ezra Levant? Because you just make up things out of the blue.
Didn't you read what Catchfire posted last week in the Liberal Candidates thread that had to be closed? The NDP supporters here are making the NDP look awful. Why the hell would anyone want to vote NDP when you constantly try to smear everyone the way you do?
The irony is, NDPers are supposedly so loving and compassionate and are supposed to making this a better world and a better society for all. Right? Why not look inside your hearts and ask yourself where all this poison comes from?
2. As I keep telling you, the NDP has never been the OO before. There is no precedent for this situation and no rational way to say what ought or ought not to happen. You can't make generalizations about unique experiences. You only do this because you have a narrative to push and are a fundamentally dishonest person. There is no standard for how the NDP "should" be in OO because it has never happened before. Try to keep up in the future, ok?
Go to hell. You deserve to be told that when you speak to me like that. I am not "fundamentally dishonest". That is a personal attack and is false. Your insulting and patronizing comments towards people who don't agree with you is unacceptable.
I pointed out something which is a fact and which numerous objective commentators have said -- which is that an Official Opposition party which is in 3rd place in polling & by-elections is doing badly. Don't tell me that it makes me "fundamentally dishonest" for pointing out a fact about the numbers.
Maybe you should read the article. The NDP internal polling says 60 Qc seats and 40 Ont seats and 20 Bc seats. They polled 6000 people instead of the usual 1000 or less by other polsters.Scott. I believe that ya misread the article. It stated that fed NDP strategists were meeting at looking at where they could obtain 170 seats in order to form a majority government. They figured 60 seats in PQ, 40 in ON, 20 in BC. All poli parties do that.
With regards to the 6,000 sample size internal poll, fed NDP party strategists stated that the fed NDP is the 2nd choice of a majority of voters. And that is where they are targeting the NDP's growth potential. Only e-day, after an election campaign, will determine whether anything will materialize. Let's hope so.
That's interesting. And yes, other parties have a range of how many seats they would ideally like to win in each province, but these are best case scenarios, only possible if everything goes very well.
The NDP isn't anywhere near those seat numbers according to the current mainstream polling or the seat projections on Eric Grenier's site. The NDP is at risk of losing seats right now, not gaining them. It is projected to lose a couple dozen seats in Quebec, and end up below 20 seats in Ontario. The NDP is currently projected to win 70 seats on Grenier' site.
So there's a huge difference between the NDP's seat projection plan and what the polling analysts are showing. We'll have to see how it turns out by Election Time.
----
Federal Seat Projection - February 6, 2015
Conservative (143)
Liberal (122)
NDP (70)
Green (2)
BQ (1)
Yeah, those polling analysts sure got things right last election, didn't they? I can see why you hold them in such high regard.
2. As I keep telling you, the NDP has never been the OO before. There is no precedent for this situation and no rational way to say what ought or ought not to happen. You can't make generalizations about unique experiences. You only do this because you have a narrative to push and are a fundamentally dishonest person. There is no standard for how the NDP "should" be in OO because it has never happened before. Try to keep up in the future, ok?
Go to hell. You deserve to be told that when you speak to me like that.
Awww. Precious. Diddums hurtis feeling?
I am not "fundamentally dishonest". That is a personal attack and is false. Your insulting and patronizing comments towards people who don't agree with you is unacceptable.
I disagree respectfully all the time. With people I respect. You don't make that cut.
I pointed out something which is a fact and which numerous objective commentators have said -- which is that an Official Opposition party which is in 3rd place in polling & by-elections is doing badly. Don't tell me that it makes me "fundamentally dishonest" for pointing out a fact about the numbers.
What makes you dishonest is the fact that I have made this objection to your bullshit argument many, many times and never once have you engaged it, but just keep on repeating your nonsense anyway. And you still haven't engaged it. Nowhere in your response do you address the substance of my post. That's what an honest person would do and it's precisely what you're incapable of.
My post had an insult. It also had an argument. Yours only had an insult.
It all depends on the campaigns of course, but BC has huge growth potential for the NDP that has remained untapped. People are not so bound by tradition and history here. The Liberal brand of Natural Governing Party carries no weight, and is often a negative. Also, fewer voters out here are scared of the Cons, so the fear tactics that usually carry the day for the Libs are less effective. There's a large voting bloc that would never go anything but Conservative, and a few hard-core dippers, but outside of that votes here are much more up for grabs than they are in most provinces. A good campaign can produce a lot of results in BC.
What makes you dishonest is the fact that I have made this objection to your bullshit argument many, many times and never once have you engaged it, but just keep on repeating your nonsense anyway. And you still haven't engaged it. Nowhere in your response do you address the substance of my post. That's what an honest person would do and it's precisely what you're incapable of.My post had an insult. It also had an argument. Yours only had an insult.
Your argument is BS. Rehashing the same points over and over again is boring. As an example I will cite the disagreement over the chain of events that led to the downfall of the Liberal government in 2005. Some of you claim that because the NDP didn't have the votes to save the government when the vote was taken that they didn't take down the government. I claim that the NDP set off the chain of events that led to the vote therefore they are responsible. We aren't going to agree yet some of you would insist on debating it until one of us (you) is "proven" right.
Another circular argument is whether or not Trudeau is qualified to be PM. The only qualification for a political position is to get elected. An associated argument is that Canadians will get to know him during the campaign at which time his support will tank. I also think Canadians will get to know him during the campaign and I expect his support will rise as a result. None of us can "prove" our take on how Canadians will react to getting greater exposure to Trudeau.
It's not necessary to constantly engage on fundamental disagreements.
Debater pointed out that 3rd place is a bad spot for the NDP as they are the Official Opposition. You point out that there is no precedent for the NDP being the OO. Be that as it may there is a general precedent and expectation of popularity for the "government in waiting" that the NDP has failed to attain much less solidify. The Orange Crush was unprecedented therefore it could happen again but that it happened once doesn't mean it will happen again. We could all come up with endless reasons to support our perspectives but it would be a circular argument.
It's not objectionable to refuse to be drawn into a circular argument. I would be interested in going into further depth if it would be a friendly conversation based in a desire to understand each other's perspectives but that is not what it would be. It would be disrespectful at best but more likely hostile and derisive. It doesn't make engaging very appealing.
Cool it on the personal insults folks.
Liberals got turfed out for basically one reason:
The ran on left and governed on the right
Nothing more and nothing less
Oh and the Martin Liberal arrogance
The Liberal glory days are behind them
By foolishly being in bed with the Greens the Liberals are just showing their desperation to all Canadians
It is the NDP that is showing desperation to all Canadians. Why did it change its identity by removing socialism from its constitution? Liberals are not left wing or right wing, they are practical. they dont make policy as they go along, or based on polls. Mulcair was all about moving to the centre, until the disastrous result of the NDP in Ontario election. Mulcair may even lose his own seat in outremont, I lived in Papineau, which is next to Outremont. A lot of south asians live in Outremont, and they love Trudeau. Oh and BTW congrats to the NDP on winning in Sudbury byelection. After all Glenn Thibeault was an NDPer. The last seat count for the NDP is in the low 50s!!!!!! Its in trouble in BC, and QC (the two remaining bases!). AND Quebec voters are the most unreliable, they have changed parties many times they went from liberal, social credit to pc to Bloc to NDP. Provincially, they made the ADQ the official opposition party, only to send them back to 3rd party status. Keep in mind that Quebecer are very concerned with personalities, they vote mainly based on personailities like the popular Lucien Bouchard, and Jack Layton. Mulcair, and for that matter, Trudeau are both half anglophones, and both speak french like an immersion student. With Quebec values charter still somewhat of an issue, and the issues with miniorities that some Quebecers have, they may vote in large parts for the CPC, as shown by recent polls!!!
You mean like how the Libs have no platform and Harpo could pull an early election given Bairds resignation. Yeah JT is so articlulate that he stammers through his lines, not because of an imparement but because he can't think on his feet and he has no actual policy that makes it easy to articulate a point.
Second choice for a majority, and first choice for a quarter or a fifth.
So they will need to break it down into C, L, G, B, voters and address each group.
They also need to persuade sleepers of various kinds who have not voted in a while.
Liberals keep trying to perpetuate some myth that it was the NDP's fault that the Cons got elected
Anyone who knows anything about politics in Canada knows that if you could not deal with jack Layton you could not deal with anyone
Unless that was the Liberal plan all along which obviously it was
Too bad the Liberals were too right wing to deal with Layton
And too bad the Liberals put the Cons in power where they have been for 9 years now
-
You mean like how the Libs have no platform and Harpo could pull an early election given Bairds resignation. Yeah JT is so articlulate that he stammers through his lines, not because of an imparement but because he can't think on his feet and he has no actual policy that makes it easy to articulate a point.
You seriously think the Liberals don't have a platform?
Of course the Liberals have a "platform"...it can be summarized as follows:
Part 1: Legalize marijuana
Part 2: Keep all the rest of Harper's policies.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/community/poll-results-stephen-harpers-ca...
Not a scientific poll but the sampling is huge... would it be mostly T.0. area?
If an election were held today, who would you vote for?
Mulcair: 47.6%
Harper: 27.2%
Trudeau: 21.2 %
The moral of the story is use blue for your political party colours.
dp
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/community/poll-results-stephen-harpers-ca...
Not a scientific poll but the sampling is huge... would it be mostly T.0. area?
I would say the sample consists mostly of votes from the IP address of one dedicated NDP supporter.
