If you think a thread title minimizes the suffering of a whole group of people - don't call us we don't care

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Sun, 2015-07-26 16:28
Mr. Magoo

It's hard to ignore a car alarm going screeching for 10 straight minutes at 3 am, and it's hard to ignore a throbbing toothache, and it's hard to ignore an angry bee.

But given that we'd have to be pretty obsessive just to read even a quarter of what's written at babble, how hard is it to add another thread, another post or another poster to that 75% that we're already ignoring?

That said, I kind of wish there were an ignore button too, even though I don't believe we need one.  But if we had one then about half of the complaints that the mods field could be easily addressed by "Please use the ignore button."

I wonder how many people would actually use it?  Wouldn't the curiousity just eat them up?

I think that what people really want, deep down. is an "Ignore" button that makes everyone else have to ignore a post/poster too.  Where's the fun in ignoring someone if everyone else is talking about them?

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Sun, 2015-07-26 16:35
Unionist

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 

That said, I kind of wish there were an ignore button too, even though I don't believe we need one.  But if we had one then about half of the complaints that the mods field could be easily addressed by "Please use the ignore button."

Fidel was brilliant enough and thoughtful enough to create an "ignore" function. We revived it recently, and mark_alfred explained it in stepwise fashion [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-reactions/does-babble-need-ignore-functio....

But you're right. What's the point in ignoring stuff, when you just get left out of the gossip?

 

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Sun, 2015-07-26 16:51
Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

 I am easy to avoid.

You were not the prime focus of the point of this thread nor my complaint but by page two this is a "Pondering thread."

The way you post is unavoidable -- point by petty point twisting, reframing. Long posts on fairly isolated topics are avoidable but you go after a discussion like termites go after a house. You open up 50 different arguments at once mostly over minutia or completely false statements till the person gives up or sits down and throws it spoon of shit by spoon of shit right back at you. Everyone else leaves and the only people left are the ones arguing with you until they have had enough -- and give you the thread as your plaything. If I had an ignore button that got rid of all posts of yours or posts trying to respond to you -- it would wipe out most of what is in the political threads leaving what is left disjointed as cut and paste editing does to a conversation.

Not replying to your posts often as a tactic does not work becuase all other discussion ends up being in response to you as you take over a thread. Every conversation you are fighting with someone. I have not posted for months at a time and it is the same thing. You make it a fight and you win by outlasting rather than with facts or logic. There is no possible response to what you have on this second page of this thread other than to invest in an equal response -- in what I might call the world of Pondering -- or walk away.

Fact is you are easy to avoid -- only by not coming to Babble. This thread is a prime example.

 

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Sun, 2015-07-26 17:00
Sean in Ottawa

Unionist wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 

That said, I kind of wish there were an ignore button too, even though I don't believe we need one.  But if we had one then about half of the complaints that the mods field could be easily addressed by "Please use the ignore button."

Fidel was brilliant enough and thoughtful enough to create an "ignore" function. We revived it recently, and mark_alfred explained it in stepwise fashion [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/rabble-reactions/does-babble-need-ignore-functio....

But you're right. What's the point in ignoring stuff, when you just get left out of the gossip?

 

Last time I tried this it did not work. Now it is. Brilliant.

Given what I said in my last post I am not sure how this will work in conversations but let's see. Fine, if others are ignoring the same post but if the only people in the thread are talking about it then it would be pointless. Worth a try.

 

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Sun, 2015-07-26 17:02
Unionist

Sean - whatever it takes to allow you to keep contributing here - I'm in favour of it. Wishing you success!

 

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Sun, 2015-07-26 17:07
Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Fact is you are easy to avoid -- only by not coming to Babble. This thread is a prime example.

Your first post in this thread was about a thread I created and the contents of that thread. I get to respond to that.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 17:17
Mr. Magoo

Ignoring one participant in a thread would seem to me a bit like trying to read a book by ONLY reading the nouns and prepositions and ignoring the verbs.

Quote:
Fine, if others are ignoring the same post but if the only people in the thread are talking about it then it would be pointless.

You could have to ignore a lot of other posters as well, but it would be a small price to pay, wouldn't it?  To have a button do what your brain doesn't really want to?

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Sun, 2015-07-26 18:29
Mr. Magoo

Quote:
For example, somone holds up an apple in one hand and an orange in the other(to indicate that he's talking about the particular specimens in his hands) and says "Which one is better?" I can't really answer the question, because apples and oranges both have different standards for judging quality.

Fair enough.  I just think that in a pragmatic sense, ANY two things are comparable.

The worst case scenario is having to acknowledge that they have almost nothing in common.  But people love to act as though comparing them in the first place is somehow just wrong.  That we'd learn more by NOT comparing them than we would by comparing them.  And the typical dismissal is "apples and oranges".

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Sun, 2015-07-26 18:30
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

It's best to avoid Pandering.

I don't want to purposely ignore anyone but at the same time I don't want to be attacked because my opinion doesn't jive with others.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the personal attacks on babble really underline the problem with the left.

And being PC is a pile of bullshit. Sometimes the truth hurts. Too bad.

When did the left become so dogmatic? We should leave that to the reactionary right.

Don't say this,don't label A as B,tow the 'progressive' line etc....Is there any wonder why the left is so under represented?

It's becoming a joke.

The longer the left eats itself the quicker we'll be left with bare bones.

It shouldn't matter about your gender and it shouldn't matter if you disagree. Try discussing or call out something that is either hypoocritical or patently untrue.

Let's cut the dogma and ultimately cut the bullshit that keeps the left in the fringes.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 19:01
jjuares

Unionist wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I consider calling a reaction that has a cause behind it "a tantrum" to be a personal attack. First it is infantalising, second, it implies that there is no thought process. And third it sidesteps and minimizes the issue and legitimacy of what a person is saying. And yes you better believe it is taken personally. If you really were not aware that such comment is taken as an attack then consider this a favour.

You get your explanation and no retraction. I appreaciate support from people who are not saying my concern is a tantrum. It wasn't. And coming from you -- a person who uses langauge no harsher than mine -- it seemed hypocritical. And why after you said this would you expect me to bite my tongue in response?

You haven't even noticed that I apologized upthread for the connotations of that word - after everyone was attacking me for using it?

Really?

And that's the sum total of what you call "personal attacks"?

Someone calls me a "Liberal troll" - that doesn't garner a comment from you? Really?

And if you say something stupid, and I reply: "That comment is stupid." - that's your definition of a "personal" attack?

And others (including you) repeat your innuendo that I am privileged, can say whatever I want without fear of mod intervention...."

 


Actually that was mostly me. Although I beg to differ, I don't think I just insinuated it. Anyways, sorry to offend I just have to go where the truth takes me.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 19:17
Sean in Ottawa

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
For example, somone holds up an apple in one hand and an orange in the other(to indicate that he's talking about the particular specimens in his hands) and says "Which one is better?" I can't really answer the question, because apples and oranges both have different standards for judging quality.

Fair enough.  I just think that in a pragmatic sense, ANY two things are comparable.

The worst case scenario is having to acknowledge that they have almost nothing in common.  But people love to act as though comparing them in the first place is somehow just wrong.  That we'd learn more by NOT comparing them than we would by comparing them.  And the typical dismissal is "apples and oranges".

I love comparing different things. I am almost always up for that. The Greek Canada thread was not just a comparison it was a premise about a conclusion that was offensive -- like the differences are so small we have to ask Is Canada really that different from Greece? (Limitations on Democracy) -- reads as Greeks it is not a big deal -- get over yourselves things are about the same here

Now to ask "what could we learn from the situation in Greece" is fine.

Even to say "How are Greece and Canada alike in terms of limitations on democracy" would be a comparison and quite close without the rudeness of the current title.

But asking if they are the same is starting with a presumption that we are going through the same things -- minimizing the suffering there -- we can't see the difference. Something like asking if the Housing crisis in Canada is that different than Nepal.

You can very well compare two things, even explore similarities, without questioning if they might be the same or minimizing the differences. we could even ask "What is similar between what Greece is going through and Canada" This does not suggest that the overall result is the same.

There were many options to fix this -- the mods have even read and participated in this thread. I think if someone else had asked they would have quickly fixed the problem as a minor solution even if they did not think it was as big deal as I do. The compromise change of title was not a big deal either.

Instead they let this turn into -- why can someone point out that they see something offensive and the mods care so little about that they won't even bother to answer (proving their animus towards one participant is more important than avoiding others taking offence). Glad they have their priority straight. Lots of demand for respect around here but some is earned. Whatever they say about me they are supposed to be the leaders here. I'll leave this here.

I am glad to have a solution to the problem of seeing what Pondering writes but that was not why I started this -- and that issue is still outstanding as the mods have provided no explanation and Greek Canadians seeing this are still faced with the stupid and insulting question is Canada any different than Greece when it comes to their democracy -- now that they are governed from Berlin.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 19:51
Mr. Magoo

Quote:
But asking if they are the same is starting with a presumption that we are going through the same things -- minimizing the suffering there -- we can't see the difference. Something like asking if the Housing crisis in Canada is that different than Nepal.

I don't even disagree with you.  I don't think Greece and Canada are meaningfully similar in almost any terms of material situation, nor "democracy".

But I guess I, personally, think the best response to that is "I don't think Greece and Canada are meaningfully similar in almost any terms of material situation, nor 'democracy'"

I don't think it's a show-stopping insult, just some wrongheadedness -- which can be treated the same as any other perceived wrongheadedness.

Quote:
now that they are governed from Berlin.

That seems to be a popular trope.  It's all about Angela Merkel and her hatred of Greece -- the rest of the EU is tripping over themselves to give Greece more munney.

Greece always has the option of saying "No, thank you.  We don't want your munney with these conditions".  Don't they?  I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard going, but don't they have that option if this is worse?

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Sun, 2015-07-26 19:58
Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
The Greek Canada thread was not just a comparison it was a premise about a conclusion that was offensive -- like the differences are so small we have to ask Is Canada really that different from Greece? (Limitations on Democracy) -- reads as Greeks it is not a big deal -- get over yourselves things are about the same here

No, your interpretation of what the title means is offensive.

Asking if one thing is really that different from another suggests that people assume they are completely different and there are no parallels that can be drawn. The complete opposite of your interpretation.

For example, one could say, are apples really that different from oranges? (Similarities between fruits) "Similarities between fruits" indicates that I am not comparing the obvious external differences of colour and texture nor the flavor. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
But asking if they are the same is starting with a presumption that we are going through the same things -- minimizing the suffering there -- we can't see the difference. Something like asking if the Housing crisis in Canada is that different than Nepal.

It was spelled out in the title that I was referring to limitations on democracy in terms of deals being made in secret that limit sovereignty. In no way does that minimize the suffering in Greece or suggest that we are experiencing anything like what the people of Greece are experiencing. That would be literally nonsensical and it is not what was argued in the thread.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
There were many options to fix this -- the mods have even read and participated in this thread. I think if someone else had asked they would have quickly fixed the problem as a minor solution even if they did not think it was as big deal as I do. The compromise change of title was not a big deal either.

You misinterpreted the meaning behind the title and took offence to your misinterpretation. There is nothing to fix other than your misinterpretation.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 20:39
Sean in Ottawa

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
But asking if they are the same is starting with a presumption that we are going through the same things -- minimizing the suffering there -- we can't see the difference. Something like asking if the Housing crisis in Canada is that different than Nepal.

I don't even disagree with you.  I don't think Greece and Canada are meaningfully similar in almost any terms of material situation, nor "democracy".

But I guess I, personally, think the best response to that is "I don't think Greece and Canada are meaningfully similar in almost any terms of material situation, nor 'democracy'"

I don't think it's a show-stopping insult, just some wrongheadedness -- which can be treated the same as any other perceived wrongheadedness.

Quote:
now that they are governed from Berlin.

That seems to be a popular trope.  It's all about Angela Merkel and her hatred of Greece -- the rest of the EU is tripping over themselves to give Greece more munney.

Greece always has the option of saying "No, thank you.  We don't want your munney with these conditions".  Don't they?  I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard going, but don't they have that option if this is worse?

It is okay for us to disagree. My complaint here was the silence from the mods who I think should have answered long ago. The thread title may not be the greatest crime ever but it is not reflective of a progressive site, it is insulting and there is precendent for asking it to be changed. This is in the context of campaigns for closures across several threads for much less important reasons and title changes that seem to be done on a whim. The issue here is the idea of different classes of participants -- some of whom don't deserve a response to a DM about something like this. I think that anyone alleging that a thread title is offensive should get an answer at least -- unless of course they are doing this often. There is no record of me sending lots of DMs to mods -- as I say last one was three years ago.

BTW -- I do see a blank when a blocked person posts -- it is like the neighbours cat howling -- I know it is saying something but I don't know what. Much better.

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Sun, 2015-07-26 21:26
Unionist

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

BTW -- I do see a blank when a blocked person posts -- it is like the neighbours cat howling -- I know it is saying something but I don't know what. Much better.

Glad to be of service.

 

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