Federal election thread -- August 4, 2015

All I ask if that people DO NOT use the word HATE in describing my opinions as I DON'T Hate anyone.

Stockholm wrote, "Chow Derangement Syndrome". LMAO!

terrytowel wrote:

All I ask if that people DO NOT use the word HATE in describing my opinions as I DON'T Hate anyone.

alan smithee wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

All I ask if that people DO NOT use the word HATE in describing my opinions as I DON'T Hate anyone.

It's OK to hate,terry.It's a human emotion. I have to believe it as you've been going on about Chow since the last Mayor's race. Move along my good man.

Nope I don't have hate in my heart. I just call her out for being an opportunist. That is my only issue. We can agree to disagrre, but I agree with you Alan. Let's all move on. btw I didn't bring up Chow in this thread. Stockholm did.

terrytowel wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

All I ask if that people DO NOT use the word HATE in describing my opinions as I DON'T Hate anyone.

It's OK to hate,terry.It's a human emotion. I have to believe it as you've been going on about Chow since the last Mayor's race. Move along my good man.

Nope I don't have hate in my heart. I just call her out for being an opportunist. That is my only issue. We can agree to disagrre, but I agree with you Alan. Let's all move on. btw I didn't bring up Chow in this thread. Stockholm did.

post 544 i think it was you brought her up i posted it above this

terrytowel wrote:

Sorry you are right, my mistake. See I can admit when I made a mistake. How about this, since everyone knows my feeling about Olivia, \ I won't bring up Olivia Chow again. Unless she is in the news for something. Deal?

Ignore...who?

omg... hall, chow, parrish, layton

you two should get a room!

3 more Conservatives under the microscope:

http://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/09/23/conservative-can...

On the same weekend Conservatives expedited a refugee processing system in a nod to what they called “Canadian generosity,” one of their candidates seeking re-election was telling voters about an “agenda” to move Muslims into European countries.

And that is something Joe Daniel doesn’t want to see in Canada.

http://www.pressprogress.ca/this_conservative_candidate_is_not_happy_abo...

If the social media postings of Marilyn Gladu are anything to go by, the Conservatives' pick for Sarnia-Lambton doesn't seem thrilled about Canada keeping church and state separate.

She also seems to think Muslim immigrants "want to kill everybody."

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/09/22/winnipeg-conservative-candid...

WINNIPEG - A Conservative candidate in Winnipeg has compared the number of abortions in Canada to the death tolls of the Holocaust and the 9-11 attack in the United States.

Gordon Giesbrecht, who is running in Winnipeg-South, made the comments in a video posted online in 2009 when he was president of Horizon College and Seminary, a Christian academy in Saskatoon.

In the video, Giesbrecht says the number of abortions in recent decades equals "a 9-11 every day" and surpasses the number of people killed in the Holocaust in the Second World War.

 

Stockholm wrote:

Here we go again with "terrytowel" projecting his pathological personal hatred of Olivia Chow onto other people. Is this "Chow derangement syndrome"?

 

Sorry, a bit late to this but.....

It is well and truy delicious to find Stockholm UPBRAIDING SOMEONE ELSE for "projecting pathological hatred".

LOLOLOL.

bekayne wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

bekayne wrote:

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/09/22/winnipeg-conservative-candid...

Quote:

WINNIPEG - A Conservative candidate in Winnipeg has compared the number of abortions in Canada to the death tolls of the Holocaust and the 9-11 attack in the United States

Gordon Giesbrecht, who is running in Winnipeg-South, made the comments in a video posted online in 2009 when he was president of Horizon College and Seminary, a Christian academy in Saskatoon.

In the video, Giesbrecht says the number of abortions in recent decades equals "a 9-11 every day" and surpasses the number of people killed in the Holocaust in the Second World War.

And this will have absolutely zero impact on the campaign in Winnipeg South, with the possible exception that it might actually help Giesbrecht. The previous MP for the area, Rod Bruinooge, was also a known anti-abortionist and that didn't hurt him in the riding at all.

But the national campaign won't help him as much. As well the Opposition vote won't be as split

Bruinooge didn't need much help from the national campaign either.

Sorry, this isn't going to hurt the Conservative campaign at all. Conservatives have a reputation as being socially conservative and people have always taken that into account when they decide who to vote for.

quizzical wrote:

what's 41,000 home care spaces mean?

 

http://www.ndp.ca/news/mulcair-to-expand-home-care-to-support-41000-more...

This is an important promise --

The cost of this will come back in savings to the health care system.

Home care has often been considered the neglected sibling of the rest of the Health Care system. This neglect not only causes nightmares for families it also costs the rest of the system significantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhFsYoi48I0

The only thing lamer than that "dirt digging" is someone telling someone else about it.  Who cops to this stuff?  Only amateurs.

There is still time left and growing rumours that the Cons are ready to sign TPP may give the NDP an opening. This would give the NDP a chance to turn the rural Quebec City region ridings back in their favour as the TPP will almost certainly be a giveaway on dairy products. As Harper admitted in a debate it will almost certainly be a sellout on auto industry. Unifor's Jerry Dias said it would quickly cost 26,000 auto sector jobs. As the Liberals are also gung-ho free trade and stated it clearly on CTV's Question Period this Sunday, even when these issues were brought forward, that gives the NDP a better chance in southwest Ontario and Oshawa, if Mulcair will stop playing it cautious. 

A shift in these ridings could help shift national momentum. 

jerrym wrote:

There is still time left and growing rumours that the Cons are ready to sign TPP may give the NDP an opening. This would give the NDP a chance to turn the rural Quebec City region ridings back in their favour as the TPP will almost certainly be a giveaway on dairy products. As Harper admitted in a debate it will almost certainly be a sellout on auto industry. Unifor's Jerry Dias said it would quickly cost 26,000 auto sector jobs. As the Liberals are also gung-ho free trade and stated it clearly on CTV's Question Period this Sunday, even when these issues were brought forward, that gives the NDP a better chance in southwest Ontario and Oshawa, if Mulcair will stop playing it cautious. 

A shift in these ridings could help shift national momentum. 

 

The CONs are many things but they aren't crazy enough to alienate their rural base in dairy farm ridings on the eve of an election, even for the big trade deal "proof point" in their economic message.  

There will be something on dairy to meet US and NZ demands but it will not be an open border.  Probably somethng like what they did on cheese - a limted amount quota allowed in.

I have been thoroughly disappointed in the NDP's campaign to this point.It had been fearful,half measured,and overly cautious.I wish Thomas Mulcair,and his team,had the intestinal fortitude to talk ad forcefully about the current state of things like Bernie Sanders is.There's some fool on Facebook,named "Glenn Miller" claiming that Mulcair,and this version of the NDP,is exactly like Sanders...Nothing could be further from the truth...They've run a Dix/Dexteresque campaign and are geting treated precisely as they should...

What a shame..They had a potential victory in their grasp and have totally squandered it...

welder wrote:

I have been thoroughly disappointed in the NDP's campaign to this point.It had been fearful,half measured,and overly cautious.I wish Thomas Mulcair,and his team,had the intestinal fortitude to talk ad forcefully about the current state of things like Bernie Sanders is.There's some fool on Facebook,named "Glenn Miller" claiming that Mulcair,and this version of the NDP,is exactly like Sanders...Nothing could be further from the truth...They've run a Dix/Dexteresque campaign and are geting treated precisely as they should...

What a shame..They had a potential victory in their grasp and have totally squandered it...

Sadly, I agree with your analysis. With the public mood finally becoming receptive to something different, the NDP were still doing their best to make Mulcair appear better but not so different as to be scary. And there was Trudeau, definitely looking different. Still, 3 weeks is a long time, perhaps the NDP will take jerrym's suggestion, and declare against TPP, or make some other bold, populist move. I doubt it, but it is still possible.

welder wrote:

I have been thoroughly disappointed in the NDP's campaign to this point.It had been fearful,half measured,and overly cautious.I wish Thomas Mulcair,and his team,had the intestinal fortitude to talk ad forcefully about the current state of things like Bernie Sanders is.There's some fool on Facebook,named "Glenn Miller" claiming that Mulcair,and this version of the NDP,is exactly like Sanders...Nothing could be further from the truth...They've run a Dix/Dexteresque campaign and are geting treated precisely as they should...

What a shame..They had a potential victory in their grasp and have totally squandered it...

 Actually its more Tommy Douglas style, but it may as well be Dix/Dexter style, the mood has shifted, Mulcair has to catch up to it.

 I don't fault Glenn Miller, I fault the brain trust that focused on Yesterday, instead of today. People are more interested now adays in Bernie Sanders then Tommy Douglas.

Michael Moriarity wrote:

With the public mood finally becoming receptive to something different, the NDP were still doing their best to make Mulcair appear better but not so different as to be scary. And there was Trudeau, definitely looking different. Still, 3 weeks is a long time, perhaps the NDP will take jerrym's suggestion, and declare against TPP, or make some other bold, populist move. I doubt it, but it is still possible.

I don't really agree.  As far as bold moves go, the NDP have declared they'll provide funding for a million child care spaces, they'll move toward pharmacare, they'll bring the troops back home, they'll take a win in the next election as a mandate to bring in proportional representation, they'll raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour, they'll increase infrastructure spending by $1.5 billion a year for the next twenty years, they'll bring national standards for cap and trade along with legislation (Climate Change Accountability Act) to mandate Kyoto levels --> and they'll pour all revenue from this back to the provinces for spending on environmental projects (retrofits, wind farms, solar, etc.), plans for more doctors, etc.  And that's not even everything they've announced.  

Declaring against TPP would be just another item lost in the pile.  Their current announcements have been bold and courageous (the sort of thing we dreamed of previously -- MMP, child care, pharmacare, bring the troops home...)  It's great stuff. 

By contrast, what have the Libs announced?  The main thing is higher infrastructure spending (at one point they said for ten years (I think), though they only account for funding for three years).  This "infrastructure spending" also includes "social infrastructure", meaning some money for unspecified stuff like child care or shelters or whatever may or may not be lumped in (so there may not actually be more money for shovel ready projects). Anyway, This will be NOW, because they are willing to invest via a deficit (basically, since they're unwilling to use tax dollars, they're just gonna borrow to spend a little and dangle the prospect of some more jobs NOW before people).

The other specific thing is:  MORE MONEY FOR YOU NOW!  Specifically, more money for some families with kids via the Lib's proposed Canada Child Benefit (no cheques for millionaires), and a "middle class tax rebate of up to $670!" (that figure is for those earning between $89G to $200G, it's decreasingly less for lower incomes until it reaches zero by the $44G mark). 

Beyond that, it's vague promises like "I'll take care of the environment by working together with the provinces.", "Last FPTP election -- I'll consult about some modification of this." "Funding for child care spaces -- buried in our 'social infrastructure' promise, maybe more detail later."

Anyway, this campaign reminds me of the Stanford marshmallow experiment.  Briefly, kids were offered one marshmallow which they could eat immediately, but were told that if they wait for a bit (like 15 minutes) then they could have two marshmallows.

The Liberals are saying that the NDP's promises are way out of line (they said $24 billion over, I think), and thus either will not happen or it will be a long wait.  But they have MONEY for you NOW!  So, you can have one marshmallow now, or wait and maybe get NO MARSHMALLOWS!

Some people are choosing the one marshmallow now, it seems, rather than the truly transformative change that the NDP is proposing.

The other issue in this campaign is charisma.  Trudeau has it in spades, whereas Mulcair does not.  That and the fact that most people in Canada would have eaten the one marshmallow rather than wait is the reason the Liberals are winning.  It's not because the NDP's platform is not progressive enough.  The NDP's platform is very progressive.

Anyway, there's still time.  People will wake up and prove that Canada is finally "ready for change" (rather than devouring the Liberal's marshmallow.)

I still think the problem is the NDP has not sold their plan -- not that the plan itself was not a winner.

I think the focus would best be on communications -- pulling the elements together and really selling this plan. You don't need to rebuild the platform to do that.

It's not a marshmallow test issue.  Let's not get insulting to voters.

It's perception.  The Liberals have a platform that is understandable in one sentence.  Sure the details betray it, and everyone agrees the infrastructure spending will do minimal to nada - but that's not important to everyday voters.

And it is a platform that does everything for everyone but nothing concrete for individuals.  So there is nothing they have to define in timelines, or have to prove to the lives of individual voters.  (The sort of stuff the NDP hasn't been able to get away with in the past.)

The NDP platform relies on details to sell the key points.  And those details relate to individual lives.  What is it about?  Daycare?  When?  Pharma?  When?  Infrastructure?  How much?

That's a losing proposition.

Ciabatta2 wrote:

It's not a marshmallow test issue.  Let's not get insulting to voters.

It's perception.  The Liberals have a platform that is understandable in one sentence.  Sure the details betray it, and everyone agrees the infrastructure spending will do minimal to nada - but that's not important to everyday voters.

And it is a platform that does everything for everyone but nothing concrete for individuals.  So there is nothing they have to define in timelines, or have to prove to the lives of individual voters.  (The sort of stuff the NDP hasn't been able to get away with in the past.)

The NDP platform relies on details to sell the key points.  And those details relate to individual lives.  What is it about?  Daycare?  When?  Pharma?  When?  Infrastructure?  How much?

That's a losing proposition.

I'm sticking with my marshmallow hypothesis -- heck, Trudeau often stated in a couple of the debates that he will start his plan NOW due to an openness to deficit spending, and not be delayed by a balanced budget promise (or cut due to a balanced budget promise).  NOW is a big theme of theirs.  And the treat of "more money in your pocket .. right away" is right on their website ("I [Trudeau] have a plan that will create jobs and help grow the economy. It will put more money in your pocket and it’s going to start right away.")  Just go look.

But yes, I do agree the NDP have not had a clear message.  It's been more of a mish mash.  A grab bag.  Perhaps if they pick one thing and focus on it.  But what?  Child care?  Proportional representation?  Bring the troops home?  Pharmacare?  More doctors?  Funding for women's shelters?  Can any of this compete with "we're going to stop giving cheques to millionaires and put more money in your pocket right away!"?

Hard to say.  But, to try, they need to clear out some clutter.  So, to change and focus the message, they should drop the talk of "we'll balance the budget just like Tommy" and also drop the scandal talk of "Harper is corrupt, and so are Liberals, but not us -- so don't choose the Senate scandal or the sponsorship scandal -- choose the NDP."

Then they need to find no more than two things to really focus on.  Maybe proportional representation, with child care as the secondary thing.

• NDP:  Ready for Change -- make your vote count! 
  
• NDP:  Ready for Change -- national childcare at last!!

Anyway, I dunno why I'm wasting my time writing this.  Presumably the plan is worked out.  The ads are made.  The events are scheduled.  It's just up to volunteers to get out and call, canvass, drop fliers, and pull the vote on election day.  That's what will win it now.

How effective do you feel C-51 has been as a wedge issue for the NDP? I think it is helping the NDP remain competitive among the urban chattering classes in the Annex and Plateau, but do you think the NDP overestimated it as an issue pertinent to the average voter?

terrytowel wrote:

Elizabeth May still not giving up on the Consortium debate. She has sent Mulcair an OPEN letter asking him to change his mind.

Should he?

She's a giant!

bekayne wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Elizabeth May still not giving up on the Consortium debate. She has sent Mulcair an OPEN letter asking him to change his mind.

Should he?

She's a giant!